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Thread: What traits do Gammas appreciate in others?

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    Default What traits do Gammas appreciate in others?

    I sound like an idiot for asking this. A good work ethic, ambition, courtesy are some traits that come to my mind. What are some traits that gammas find attractive and traits that gammas find unattractive?
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    What do you mean by good work ethic?
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    naked women and a pool party usually does it for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    I sound like an idiot for asking this. A good work ethic, ambition, courtesy are some traits that come to my mind. What are some traits that gammas find attractive and traits that gammas find unattractive?
    Why are you interested in knowing how to win Gammas over?

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    For me, (Romantically): be a mature dual of mine. LOL

    for me, (platonically): be aware, be considerate, be respectful, stand up to oppression, or be intellectually stimulating, etc.

    understand, especially because you value Fe, that I feel attacked by it sometimes or like it's a foreign, awkward ritual. . .

    Don't require me to show affection the way you're used to it. My complimenting someone or hanging out or protecting someone can be a sign of affection....


    Give me information.

    Allow me (the gamma) to help you with something.

    Give me ideas to think about, NOT in a demeaning or vain way. I will be less interested in discussing it and focus on analyzing your vanity if you do it with a puffed-up manner.

    DO NOT CALL ME ILLOGICAL simply because we use differing Ts ( and ). Seriously!

    also, my ex (ILE) would not have his needs met when my was used. My needs weren't met when his was used. It's pretty frustrating. Same with my best friend who's an ILE. He and I find great comfort in the NT retreat we share from the world, though.

    I really like a great many things about ILEs.

    We have explosive fights, though. I prefer analyzing why we're fighting (not in front of non-NTs, tho).

    Some very great bonding with my ILE buddy.

    It helped me a lot to read that ILEs wonder, "What does this person want from me?" when an Fi expression is made. I had to explain it to an EII that the ILE feels manipulated by stuff like this. I like that I get to say it to him, but I don't pause for acknowledgment, like I would with other types. I hope that helps. It's seemed to work better.


    I don't know how best to describe it, but there's a thing that riles me in ILE-ILI interaction:
    I don't know if it's Ti or Si, but when ILEs say something IS a certain way and use this subjective opinion in an argument (especially about people), it drives me nuts sometimes. i don't know how best to say it...
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    I am in favor of;
    -Argument. Any topic. Anything goes.
    -Driven people who know what they are living for. This doesn't mean Se; it just means you've got a reason to live for that I haven't already ruled out as outright stupidity.
    -Confidence and expertise in what you are talking about
    -Focus in conversation matter; interactions can't be bouncing off the walls, a topic deserves more than a few minutes' consideration.

    I am against;
    -People who don't live by their own principles; I loathe hypocrisy/inconsistency
    -Lack of direction or goals in life.

    Sounds Ni valuing I guess. I tried not to be bias based on functions but there you go Why don't you tell us what type you're trying to win over, as I think you'll just get ILI responses

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    I am in favor of;
    -Argument. Any topic. Anything goes.
    -Driven people who know what they are living for. This doesn't mean Se; it just means you've got a reason to live for that I haven't already ruled out as outright stupidity.
    -Confidence and expertise in what you are talking about
    -Focus in conversation matter; interactions can't be bouncing off the walls, a topic deserves more than a few minutes' consideration.

    I am against;
    -People who don't live by their own principles; I loathe hypocrisy/inconsistency
    -Lack of direction or goals in life.

    Sounds Ni valuing I guess. I tried not to be bias based on functions but there you go Why don't you tell us what type you're trying to win over, as I think you'll just get ILI responses
    FWIW,

    I found myself reading then skipping off (using the mouse gesture) back to the main page to look for more interesting things to read.

    Then I figured I'd give my take.

    A lot of what you're saying that you think is Ni is actually Te. Hence the kind of repel in me.

    I think that
    "-Focus in conversation matter; interactions can't be bouncing off the walls, a topic deserves more than a few minutes' consideration."

    Is what puts ILI's off me the fastest...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    FWIW,

    I found myself reading then skipping off (using the mouse gesture) back to the main page to look for more interesting things to read.

    Then I figured I'd give my take.

    A lot of what you're saying that you think is Ni is actually Te. Hence the kind of repel in me.

    I think that
    "-Focus in conversation matter; interactions can't be bouncing off the walls, a topic deserves more than a few minutes' consideration."

    Is what puts ILI's off me the fastest...
    That's true; intense and focused conversation with a specific lack of craziness probably means Te. I was thinking the driven/long term goals business was more Ni/Se related even though I didn't intend it.

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    In my case, you should have some goals and aspirations of some kind. I have a hard time relating to people who don't have some idea of where they want to go in life. I really enjoy talking about that kind of stuff.

    I love arguments, controversial discussions, and philosophical discussions.

    Talk to me about personal things. Obviously if you walk up to me and start telling me about your sex life it's gong to be a little weird, but if I know you're name and at least a little about you, I can't imagine myself shying away from anything personal you want to talk about.

    Ask me for advice. (If you do that in combination with one of the above, you've won me over.)

    Be mature, some common decency never hurt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    That's true; intense and focused conversation with a specific lack of craziness probably means Te. I was thinking the driven/long term goals business was more Ni/Se related even though I didn't intend it.
    Thing is, I can have intense focused conversation. It's the "lack of craziness" bit that I can't help

    With regards to driven / long term goals. Well, I don't really pay much attention to that ...

    Some people have all these long term goals and are really driven and they're really lame, and some people are cool but don't have good long term goals or lack drive .. to get them done. I wouldn't say /that/ is a priority for me. So I don't see it. But maybe ILI's do. Do they lack their own drive and goals, and need to find other people who can prop them up or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    In my case, you should have some goals and aspirations of some kind. I have a hard time relating to people who don't have some idea of where they want to go in life. I really enjoy talking about that kind of stuff.

    I love arguments, controversial discussions, and philosophical discussions.

    Talk to me about personal things. Obviously if you walk up to me and start telling me about your sex life it's gong to be a little weird, but if I know you're name and at least a little about you, I can't imagine myself shying away from anything personal you want to talk about.

    Ask me for advice. (If you do that in combination with one of the above, you've won me over.)

    Be mature, some common decency never hurt.
    Y'know, you're repeating this thing of knowing where you want to go in life.. similar to that other person ..

    Maybe this is a real gamma thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    In my case, you should have some goals and aspirations of some kind. I have a hard time relating to people who don't have some idea of where they want to go in life. I really enjoy talking about that kind of stuff.

    I love arguments, controversial discussions, and philosophical discussions.

    Talk to me about personal things. Obviously if you walk up to me and start telling me about your sex life it's gong to be a little weird, but if I know you're name and at least a little about you, I can't imagine myself shying away from anything personal you want to talk about.

    Ask me for advice. (If you do that in combination with one of the above, you've won me over.)

    Be mature, some common decency never hurt.
    I agree with everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Thing is, I can have intense focused conversation. It's the "lack of craziness" bit that I can't help

    With regards to driven / long term goals. Well, I don't really pay much attention to that ...

    Some people have all these long term goals and are really driven and they're really lame, and some people are cool but don't have good long term goals or lack drive .. to get them done. I wouldn't say /that/ is a priority for me. So I don't see it. But maybe ILI's do. Do they lack their own drive and goals, and need to find other people who can prop them up or something?
    The desire for actualization of planned goals may be more gamma because of the Ni + Te as opposed to Ni + Fe, so maybe a logical thing too; something an NF would be less concerned with. I'm curious if there is an alpha equivalent to that, as they are the only comparison when dealing with NTs. It would certainly fit the stereotype of work oriented gamma NTs...

    Also, yes, I do have issues actually following through with my plans. Often there have been outside influences in my life to flip a switch to turn on my motivation; I'm terribly poor at generating that sort of stuff myself. I find myself with an abundance of goals though; how many of them will ever be actualized on account of my laziness I don't know...

    EDIT; Hold up, I'm still unconvinced; I was told that Nietzsche who some of you might recognize as the over quoted guy on people's facebooks, was EIE and his writing was absolutely based on actualization of goals and aspirations. I looked him up and some identify him as ILI, so perhaps someone has insight into his type and we can declare this truth or not?
    Last edited by Skeptic; 08-04-2010 at 06:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    I sound like an idiot for asking this. A good work ethic, ambition, courtesy are some traits that come to my mind. What are some traits that gammas find attractive and traits that gammas find unattractive?
    No really I don't care about that in a friend, it's more important that you're polite but also fun / have some slapstick - sexual humor. If you mean more like, how can you make me admire you, then probably having multiple intellectual interests will do, as well as being flexible in your thinking and not being excessively serious. Loving adventures is also a plus, it's hard for me to be friends with excessively stay-at-home kind of people.

    Some people have all these long term goals and are really driven and they're really lame, and some people are cool but don't have good long term goals or lack drive .. to get them done.
    Yeah, definitely. I mean, if you want me to join in a business venture or some shit like that, then sure it's better if you have some sort of plan...but if you just want to be friends, I couldn't care less. Some heroin addicts have cooler stories than many boring people with goals that I constantly meet @ university.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    I agree with everything.



    The desire for actualization of planned goals may be more gamma because of the Ni + Te as opposed to Ni + Fe, so maybe a logical thing too; something an NF would be less concerned with. I'm curious if there is an alpha equivalent to that, as they are the only comparison when dealing with NTs. It would certainly fit the stereotype of work oriented gamma NTs...

    Also, yes, I do have issues actually following through with my plans. Often there have been outside influences in my life to flip a switch to turn on my motivation; I'm terribly poor at generating that sort of stuff myself. I find myself with an abundance of goals though; how many of them will ever be actualized on account of my laziness I don't know...

    EDIT; Hold up, I'm still unconvinced; I was told that Nietzsche who some of you might recognize as the over quoted guy on people's facebooks, was EIE and his writing was absolutely based on actualization of goals and aspirations. I looked him up and some identify him as ILI, so perhaps someone has insight into his type and we can declare this truth or not?
    i thought he was intx...

    and i don't think of him as a facebook guy so much, but some alienated guy that gave up on society and went and lived away from it all and wrote down his thoughts and experiences....

    he wasn't really living .. he was observing ...

    You know, there are some simple tricks to become more motivated.

    It's obvious in your language,

    like how you go "I find myself with an abundance of goals though; how many of them will ever be actualized on account of my laziness I don't know..."

    When you say "I find myself", it means you're externalising and taking away your will from the situation. As if you can't help it.

    When you say you have an abundance of goals it sounds ilke you have more than you need. And so you need to filter them down.

    "How many of them will ever be actualized" makes it sound like you realise that you can't complete them all and need to prioritise.

    On account of your lazyness ...

    Well, that means you're blaming yourself. As if you're inadequete. And can't solve the problem on your own. First, stop blaming your own lazyness. Second filter, third prioritise. Forth, execute.

    Fifth, unwind, relax, and don't focus on goals so much. So that you don't get burned out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No really I don't care about that in a friend, it's more important that you're polite but also fun / have some slapstick - sexual humor. If you mean more like, how can you make me admire you, then probably having multiple intellectual interests will do, as well as being flexible in your thinking and not being excessively serious.
    Guys admiring other guys is creepy.

    Yeah, definitely. I mean, if you want me to join in a business venture or some shit like that, then sure it's better if you have some sort of plan...but if you just want to be friends, I couldn't care less.
    I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Guys admiring other guys is creepy.
    UH ur homophopic
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Is having goals/direction in life truly important to winning Gammas over?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    i thought he was intx...

    and i don't think of him as a facebook guy so much, but some alienated guy that gave up on society and went and lived away from it all and wrote down his thoughts and experiences....

    he wasn't really living .. he was observing ...

    You know, there are some simple tricks to become more motivated.

    It's obvious in your language,

    like how you go "I find myself with an abundance of goals though; how many of them will ever be actualized on account of my laziness I don't know..."

    When you say "I find myself", it means you're externalising and taking away your will from the situation. As if you can't help it.

    When you say you have an abundance of goals it sounds ilke you have more than you need. And so you need to filter them down.

    "How many of them will ever be actualized" makes it sound like you realise that you can't complete them all and need to prioritise.

    On account of your lazyness ...

    Well, that means you're blaming yourself. As if you're inadequete. And can't solve the problem on your own. First, stop blaming your own lazyness. Second filter, third prioritise. Forth, execute.

    Fifth, unwind, relax, and don't focus on goals so much. So that you don't get burned out.
    I just checked out 20 fairly large books from the library. I think you're right; I really should be returning several of them . Maybe I'll actually get something done using these methods...

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    Is having goals/direction in life truly important to winning Gammas over?
    Well, most of us responding in this thread are NTs. Perhaps goals/direction is more winning over the gamma NT and not the SF...

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    Winning gammas over is easy.

    Be successful in the external world, but also be insightful and knowledgeable about stuff. Don't be afraid of talking about interesting things over a cup of coffee while you go on and on about business deals or whatever. Be tough, albeit in a classy, socially sophisticated sort of way.

    And yeah, don't be afraid to argue and debate without taking anything personal. Idealistically gammas love this, sometimes without realizing how much of this in reality is hard to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    Is having goals/direction in life truly important to winning Gammas over?
    I personally don't care, as long as you're sufficiently happy with what you're doing...actually, you can also be rather unhappy with what you're doing, as long as you have other qualities I personally like that make up for depression / whining / etc.
    My ESI girlfriend is less tolerant towards these attitudes, though. Actually, it seems like she has a real problem standing really unambitious, lazy, insecure people etc. (sometimes I scold her for this attitude, I believe creatives are often a bit too involuntarily fixated towards external accomplishment)
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    UH ur homophopic
    only when you stand a little too close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    I just checked out 20 fairly large books from the library. I think you're right; I really should be returning several of them . Maybe I'll actually get something done using these methods...



    Well, most of us responding in this thread are NTs. Perhaps goals/direction is more winning over the gamma NT and not the SF...
    When I was younger I used to get quite a lot of books out from the library. But I had my reasons. I liked getting "easy to read" books. And I liked being able to "not like" a book, and just let it go. But I hated feeling like I was being limited / bound / predeciding..

    But in the end some books would get ignored..

    I think I've outgrown books now though. I already know everything I need ot know

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No really I don't care about that in a friend, it's more important that you're polite but also fun / have some slapstick - sexual humor.
    This exactly what I would expect from a merry type actually. While I can appreciate sexual humor. I can't comfortably engage in it until after I've established a connection with the people involvesd. If someone acts that way, and I've never met them, they'll lose a lot of points in my book. Acting that way around people you don't know is overly crude.

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    Is having goals/direction in life truly important to winning Gammas over?
    I can't relate to people who live a hedonistic lifestyle. It's not a focus in my life, and it's even rough for me to keep up a conversation about it. If you don't have any goals or direction, my initial impression is that you are wasting your life and a waste of my time. Actually, it's not even a big deal if you live a hedonistic lifestyle as long as you demonstrate that you've given thought to your future and that you've decided through contemplation that the hedonistic lifestyle is what you want to do with your life. If you've thought out how you're going to go about your hedonistic lifestyle and maintain it, you would earn quite a few respect points. Either way, it doesn't matter what your goals are, as long as you have them. It's the people who live day-by-day not knowing what they're are doing who are a waste in my eyes. Especially if those people don't understand and respect that I have my own priorities and try to drag me down into their directionless lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    Winning gammas over is easy.

    Be successful in the external world, but also be insightful and knowledgeable about stuff. Don't be afraid of talking about interesting things over a cup of coffee while you go on and on about business deals or whatever. Be tough, albeit in a classy, socially sophisticated sort of way.

    And yeah, don't be afraid to argue and debate without taking anything personal. Idealistically gammas love this, sometimes without realizing how much of this in reality is hard to do.
    I agree with this, except you don't have to be successful. Although, you should be striving to be successful in whatever success means to you. It's the having goals and fighting for them that is admirable, even if you never reach them. If you never reach them but fought to the death trying, that's probably most admirable of all.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    This exactly what I would expect from a merry type actually. While I can appreciate sexual humor. I can't comfortably engage in it until after I've established a connection with the people involvesd.
    Too bad it's explicitly written in ENTj type descriptions. Try again.

    I can't relate to people who live a hedonistic lifestyle. It's not a focus in my life, and it's even rough for me to keep up a conversation about it. If you don't have any goals or direction, my initial impression is that you are wasting your life and a waste of my time.
    Perhaps you should take away that stick up your ass, man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Too bad it's explicitly written in ENTj type descriptions. Try again.
    Where does it say that sex jokes are an important part of ENTj's getting along with people or becoming friends?

    Perhaps you should take away that stick up your ass, man.
    Is it so wrong to approach life intelligently instead of wandering around like an idiot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    So I don't see it. But maybe ILI's do. Do they lack their own drive and goals, and need to find other people who can prop them up or something?
    Why was that your first (or only mentioned, at least) explanation for why Gammas would be won over by a person having a goal of some kind?

    It's not Ni-Se Goal advising and achieving. It's not Te organization. It's not Fi valuing. It's just that we have no personal goals nor drive and need to be propped up by all the achievers out there.

    ILIs are renowned for moving very little and having a great need for the from our duals. It hasn't stopped us from still being known as major achievers in several fields.
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    I'm surprised nobody's brought up buying them food
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    It's pretty cool

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    I thank most of you for the replies.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Hey, I am starving...No, I'm hooked up to the internet. Don't wanna leave. It will sustain me..
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    Why was that your first (or only mentioned, at least) explanation for why Gammas would be won over by a person having a goal of some kind?

    It's not Ni-Se Goal advising and achieving. It's not Te organization. It's not Fi valuing. It's just that we have no personal goals nor drive and need to be propped up by all the achievers out there.

    ILIs are renowned for moving very little and having a great need for the from our duals. It hasn't stopped us from still being known as major achievers in several fields.
    Huh?

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    gammas might appreciate you being tough yet courageous and brave in doing the strict right thing. they seem to admire that and respect it. if they respect you they are willing to deal with you. just my impression though, from mostly IRL gammas i know. their Fi adherance runs across the whole quadra, not just the Fi egos.

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    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    gammas might appreciate you being tough yet courageous and brave in doing the strict right thing.
    I really think self-sacrifice is a theme in gamma.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Where does it say that sex jokes are an important part of ENTj's getting along with people or becoming friends?
    Easiest to check: socionics.com. Largest amount of material: socionics.org (russian translation needed). Duals needed in order to provide a check for this humor, which might be carried too far if not limited in some way.

    Is it so wrong to approach life intelligently instead of wandering around like an idiot?
    There is no objective way to determine which approach to life is "more right". Utility functions are a personal matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I really think self-sacrifice is a theme in gamma.
    yes self sacrifice is a good word. i recently won the respect of an ESI through self sacrifice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Easiest to check: socionics.com. Largest amount of material: socionics.org (russian translation needed). Duals needed in order to provide a check for this humor, which might be carried too far if not limited in some way.
    It would be nice if you could quote the material since you're using it.

    ENTjs like to joke and play tricks on others. When talking about matters of a sexual nature, they often employ double entendres in a humorous manner. ENTjs have tendency to lace their jokes with sarcasm and irony. During conversation they may suddenly interrupt the speaker with comments that others find very funny, whereas the speaker can feel embarrassed. ENTjs talk a lot, and with their ability to create double meaning humour, they are not rare among comedians.
    I never said that LIEs are innocent of sexual humor or crude behavior. Just that it's not a priority for their relationships. I think what you stated about ESIs checking them is support for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    To be honest, I see more of the crude sexual talk and jokes coming from Fi devaluing types, particularly ILEs, SLEs, and maybe LSIs to a degree. I haven't interacted with a lot of LIE males and the females I have don't really talk about a lot of that stuff. LIEs in general might tolerate it to a degree and even say some, but I really cannot see it as being an LIE trait and that sort of thing would probably turn their duals away quickly. But it's not something I notice as being something most Gamma types I have dealt with with the most notable exceptions being SEEs and ILIs but it usually doesn't go far and often they feel the need to apologize as it's not a normal thing we engage in.

    I don't remember any specific sources, either, which point towards LIE and this thing though if there are, I would be interested in seeing it. And I am not saying this behavior is impossible, but not the norm.
    Logical-Intuitive Extratim - ENTj (The Pioneer)

    this is the easiest to find, even though most disputed source, here is the line:

    When talking about matters of a sexual nature, they often employ double entendres in a humorous manner. ENTjs have tendency to lace their jokes with sarcasm and irony. During conversation they may suddenly interrupt the speaker with comments that others find very funny, whereas the speaker can feel embarrassed.
    (this is usually a typical social ENTj behavior - even with people they barely know, in my experience, yet maybe in the USA ENTjs behave in a completely different way - I don't know). Later I may try to find other pieces at socionics.org.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.socionics.org/type/Default.aspx?type=ENTJ&load=type_gule.html
    Optimist, has a good sense of humor. His jokes, however, is not always appropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.socionics.org/type/Default.aspx?type=ENTJ&load=type_gul3.html
    Sometimes admits awkward uncouth humor.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.socionics.org/type/Default.aspx?type=ENTJ&all=true&load=type_sENTJ.ht ml
    Sometimes the initial dualization have some problems with not always appropriate jokes Jack, who were sometimes shade of black humor, sometimes - the nature of stupid jokes. But the worst thing for Dreiser jokes with Jack "strawberry," which not only repel Dreiser, but it cast it on a distant psychological distance, which then can be impossible to return it. Communicating with Dreiser, Jack becomes a ballot in all forms of their jokes.-> this is from Stratievskaya, which is an ISFj - usually a bit too "nice" in her ENTj description, so I think she describes a rather crucial part of ENTj-ISFj interaction: ENTj learn to be less tactless, ISFjs become less buttoned-up
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.socionics.org/type/Default.aspx?type=ENTJ&load=type_gul2.html
    His humor often bow - contains a hint of ambiguity.
    Last edited by FDG; 08-07-2010 at 08:52 PM.
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    Generally speaking I'm not that way, but I can be pretty obnoxious when I'm in certain atmospheres with people I'm comfortable with. However, when I can tell I'm making someone uncomfortable, I'm quick to apologize, and I will quickly take on a more serious tone. Basically, I can enjoy some obnoxious bullshitting/joking and even instigate it myself at times, but more often than not I'm not comfortable with it, and to say that someone acting like that could 'win me over' is just not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by fdg
    ...
    Still says nothing about it being important for their relationships. It's Fe-role, an adaptation to balance out their extreme base function.

    They act that way so that they aren't perceived as being constantly serious and boring.

    It's just like how IxTjs are often very courteous and non-intrusive so that they don't seem so cold and heartless.

    Both types like to be relieved of feeling like they have to behave that way. They may behave that way regardless, but when they're forced into it, it causes anxiety. So, even if they may behave that way, it doesn't mean they want to be in situations where that is the primary focus or that they like being around people that are the same.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 08-07-2010 at 08:59 PM.
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    It's a typical characteristic in social interaction. Every descriptions explicitly mentions this fact. If you still say "it doesn't say anything", I really don't know what to say further, except that...I really think it does.

    They act that way so that they aren't perceived as being constantly serious and boring.
    It's not a mechanical reaction, it's a natural way of behaving in a social situation. Social situations require the usage of feeling functions, usually (or sensing), so it's not an "act" - it a typical ENTj's way of using , very different from dominants for example.

    Perhaps all this debate can be reduced to a cultural focus: I perceive a way to "win me over" as pertaining to my free time / social sphere, while maybe some americans perceive ways to be "won over" as pertaining to the professional sphere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It's not a mechanical reaction, it's a natural way of behaving in a social situation. Social situations require the usage of feeling functions, usually (or sensing), so it's not an "act" - it a typical ENTj's way of using , very different from dominants for example.
    I'm not sure what you mean by natural or mechanical. It is natural for us to use our role on occasion, but it doesn't come naturally to the user. It's often uncomfortable and by definition undervalued. If you mean that acting that way in social settings is natural, I agree. Fe is objectively important for human interaction, but that doesn't change that fact that it is uncomfortable and undervalued by Te-egos. The way I understand it, ExTjs prefer that they are allowed the freedom to ignore Fe when they want to, and IxTps prefer that Fe is just taken care of for them.

    edit: Basically, I'm not arguing whether or not LIEs will act that way or not. I'm arguing about whether not it's important to them. I don't think there are any descriptions that state that it is, and unless I'm understanding Fe incorrectly, the nature of the role function would mean that they have bigger priorities than how "fun/humorous" someone is. The nature of the role function would mean that the only way in which Fe is important to them is in the fact that they want to be perceived as 'normal' and not incapable.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 08-07-2010 at 10:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    I really think self-sacrifice is a theme in gamma.
    yeah, reminds me of this scene from "Mission to Mars" which i think is a Gamma movie. this is a self-sacrifice scene, and is heavy on the . i think Connie Nielsen and Gary Sinise's characters are ESIs, Tim Robbins' character might be LIE, and the fourth guy i'd guess is a SEE.


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