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    Default Fi and attraction

    how does Fi tell attraction and repulsion, like & dislike?

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    how does Fi tell attraction and repulsion, like & dislike?
    It just does.

    lol that was an awful answer, but that's really just how it goes, at least that's how it feels for me. I always simply know who or what I'm drawn to, repelled by, like or dislike. There's no real systematic course of thought I have to go through in order to determine or understand how I feel about the world. It's actually a really hard thing for me to talk about, because before Socionics I always just assumed that everybody else is the same way. Other Fi valuers I know have equated it to "breathing," and that's really the only way I can think of how it works. I may answer more if I'm asked more pointed questions.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    I think in my brain is locked away the little mannerisms and characteristics of qualities of people or things that I have associated with a "bad" or "good" entity, and those are where I base my reactions to things. This could just be Fi and Ne working in tangent, but things like facial expressions, vocal intonation, body movement, as well as some less tangible qualities like friendliness, intrusiveness, etc, are all things that I see as manifestations of something much more inherent and solid about a person. Those qualities are used as cues that point to something essential about a person, and a sort of internal framework comes to light for me. None of this is particularly conscious in effort, rather it just happens naturally and I don't have to really think about it. But I thought everybody was like this? Someone Fe valuing give your reactions to this plx.

    Ashton, gj predicting the future
    Last edited by Galen; 07-29-2010 at 05:46 AM.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I think in my brain is locked away the little mannerisms and characteristics of qualities of people or things that I have associated with a "bad" or "good" entity, and those are where I base my reactions to things. This could just be Fi and Ne working in tangent, but things like facial expressions, vocal intonation, body movement, as well as some less tangible qualities like friendliness, intrusiveness, etc, are all things that I see as manifestations of something much more inherent and solid about a person. Those qualities are used as cues that point to something essential about a person, and a sort of internal framework comes to light for me. None of this is particularly conscious in effort, rather it just happens naturally and I don't have to really think about it. But I thought everybody was like this? Someone Fe valuing give your reactions to this plx.
    The trick about -valuing (and, by consequence, -devaluing) is, frankly, to like everyone. No, really, it's something like that, and I'd explain it better if I wasn't about to fall out of my chair from exhaustion. It's about not having a "friend or foe" instinct, rather, but letting their behavior speak for itself. The trick is seeing the usefulness in each person and that interaction is most beneficial, in most cases, if they are treated as friends.

    On second thought, I'm going to get some sleep and talk about how the 60s embodied Alpha in quadra progression with the values of "Peace; Love; Happiness" when I get up. After that, maybe I'll address the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    how does Fi tell attraction and repulsion, like & dislike?
    by the impressions that the images produce in our brain; if an image we find is gross, then we won't be attracted to that particular object; but usually, with people, these repulsions have more to do with illness on a person, sadness, mood, etc.

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    Although it is not the full breadth of how Fi functions, I tried to analyze this once and I think I got something.

    To simply put it: one way I am able to identify a person's attraction and repulsion to an object is by detecting the flux in their behaviour. That is, how a person's general behaviour changes, even slightly, when interacting with the object of interest. Assessments like "good" and "bad" hardly come into play in this level of analysis; it actually enters the framework when the person and relationship are parametrized. When this has been identified, values, resources and effort are adjusted and used to either sustain, develop or disintegrate the relationship.

    Maybe I'll give a more thorough analysis at a later time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Although it is not the full breadth of how Fi functions, I tried to analyze this once and I think I got something.

    To simply put it: one way I am able to identify a person's attraction and repulsion to an object is by detecting the flux in their behaviour. That is, how a person's general behaviour changes, even slightly, when interacting with the object of interest. Assessments like "good" and "bad" hardly come into play in this level of analysis; it actually enters the framework when the person and relationship are parametrized. When this has been identified, values, resources and effort are adjusted and used to either sustain, develop or disintegrate the relationship.

    Maybe I'll give a more thorough analysis at a later time.
    subject and object must not clash

    But Fi is mostly through providing warm care and love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I think in my brain is locked away the little mannerisms and characteristics of qualities of people or things that I have associated with a "bad" or "good" entity, and those are where I base my reactions to things. This could just be Fi and Ne working in tangent, but things like facial expressions, vocal intonation, body movement, as well as some less tangible qualities like friendliness, intrusiveness, etc, are all things that I see as manifestations of something much more inherent and solid about a person. Those qualities are used as cues that point to something essential about a person, and a sort of internal framework comes to light for me. None of this is particularly conscious in effort, rather it just happens naturally and I don't have to really think about it. But I thought everybody was like this? Someone Fe valuing give your reactions to this plx.
    For me, everything is so heavily dependent on context that I couldn't begin to come up with things like facial expressions, movement, friendliness etc.. All those things are mostly irrelevant to me. If I was pressed, perhaps I would point to some of those things as reasons for disliking someone.. but then I could list the same things as reasons for liking another person. I guess it's just someone's uh essence that I'm attracted to or not attracted to. But my attraction to them is often dependent on context too. The people that supersede context over time are the people I tend to stay attracted to.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Although it is not the full breadth of how Fi functions, I tried to analyze this once and I think I got something.

    To simply put it: one way I am able to identify a person's attraction and repulsion to an object is by detecting the flux in their behaviour. That is, how a person's general behaviour changes, even slightly, when interacting with the object of interest. Assessments like "good" and "bad" hardly come into play in this level of analysis; it actually enters the framework when the person and relationship are parametrized. When this has been identified, values, resources and effort are adjusted and used to either sustain, develop or disintegrate the relationship.

    Maybe I'll give a more thorough analysis at a later time.
    Pretty much this. I agree with Augusta's wording it as "kinetic energy" rather than good/bad, since it's hard to quantify it to such extremes
    I think when it's blocked with Se those internal evaluations are more assured and with Ne more variable


    This is rather informative description of how Fi works; I don't think I could have explained it any better http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post136225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Pretty much this. I agree with Augusta's wording it as "kinetic energy" rather than good/bad, since it's hard to quantify it to such extremes
    I think when it's blocked with Se those internal evaluations are more assured and with Ne more variable


    This is rather informative description of how Fi works; I don't think I could have explained it any better http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post136225
    I liked Expat's description, especially the parallel universe bit.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I liked Expat's description, especially the parallel universe bit.
    same here, that guy wrote some of the best stuff on this site IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    same here, that guy wrote some of the best stuff on this site IMO
    lol, this part is gold:
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    The ISTp is in an automatic, high-tech kind of place; the people attending to it are minimal. The temperature of the bath is regulated automatically; the food is cooked by robots, the garden is watered automatically. The ISTp knows that all the instruments must be working perfectly to keep his sensations at optimal level.

    If things are working well, the ISTp feels good.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    For me, everything is so heavily dependent on context that I couldn't begin to come up with things like facial expressions, movement, friendliness etc.. All those things are mostly irrelevant to me. If I was pressed, perhaps I would point to some of those things as reasons for disliking someone.. but then I could list the same things as reasons for liking another person. I guess it's just someone's uh essence that I'm attracted to or not attracted to. But my attraction to them is often dependent on context too. The people that supersede context over time are the people I tend to stay attracted to.
    Well I look for someone's supposed "essence" as well, but it's kinda like I look for their essence via the subtle little mannerisms in the way they act. As far as I'm concerned though, those things don't require context in order to understand the person.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    The trick about -valuing (and, by consequence, -devaluing) is, frankly, to like everyone. No, really, it's something like that, and I'd explain it better if I wasn't about to fall out of my chair from exhaustion. It's about not having a "friend or foe" instinct, rather, but letting their behavior speak for itself. The trick is seeing the usefulness in each person and that interaction is most beneficial, in most cases, if they are treated as friends.

    On second thought, I'm going to get some sleep and talk about how the 60s embodied Alpha in quadra progression with the values of "Peace; Love; Happiness" when I get up. After that, maybe I'll address the OP.

    I think what you said before crossing it out was good. You just don't think about whether or not you like someone, and assume you like them unless you have a good reason not to. Even when someone bothers you somehow, you can be upset and then totally forget about it later, and figure that you like them. It just doesn't. . . stick. Even if you think it will. You deal with people how they are. You don't naively think they're all saints, but how you deal with them is less about some permanent judgement and more about how they treat you, or make you feel. . . and maybe how they treat others you know too.

    Sometimes I get a sense of a person that tells me to avoid them, or not to trust them, or maybe they look approachable, or not. A lot of that is just noticing body language and recognizing what it means. Everyone does that - you don't have to be Fi-leading for that. Where I think Fi-leadings have an advantage is in knowing the strength of a connection between themself and others. They know how they feel, and what's there. I have a really hard time quantifying that myself. I don't know how to gauge it. How much do I like someone? How strong is the connection? I don't know. I don't know if I have an internal way to measure that. Instead I rely on clues like my own behavior and reactions to them. I've even done odd things like assume that I must like someone just because they're crazy about me. I match what I'm getting from them. In only very few cases has it been clear that the feelings were actually coming from me, that I felt something, and wasn't just going along with their feelings, convincing myself that I returned them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    The trick about -valuing (and, by consequence, -devaluing) is, frankly, to like everyone.
    Yes, but that only goes for Fe types. Ti's dislike everyone equally, and are incapable of forming strong bonds.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Fi attraction and repulsion comes from observation of inner character of the individual and being correctly able to estimate their intentions, something that both INFp's and I are able to do using an extra sensory perception (perhapse beyond our basic 5 senses), a sense we have not yet identified. I estimate this sensory may exist in nature among other animals as well. When one animal is fiercly upset you can see that with absense of communication and information, that other animals tend to withdraw, or submit, hence sensing what is going on in the other person's general state of feeling, without use of words. Fi's and Fi activations, Fe's and Fe activations are especially more keen to these types of body language.

    Feelings, we pick up on people's feelings. We perceive potential feelings of others from what we can see and sense.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-28-2010 at 07:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I think in my brain is locked away the little mannerisms and characteristics of qualities of people or things that I have associated with a "bad" or "good" entity, and those are where I base my reactions to things. This could just be Fi and Ne working in tangent, but things like facial expressions, vocal intonation, body movement, as well as some less tangible qualities like friendliness, intrusiveness, etc, are all things that I see as manifestations of something much more inherent and solid about a person. Those qualities are used as cues that point to something essential about a person, and a sort of internal framework comes to light for me. None of this is particularly conscious in effort, rather it just happens naturally and I don't have to really think about it. But I thought everybody was like this? Someone Fe valuing give your reactions to this plx.
    Galen ...and yet you forgive the ISTp. We are so bad at this.
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    lol I love how Arctures' post made the ISTps come out it's so cute.

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    lol I love how Arctures' post made the ISTps come out it's so cute.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    He is the flame.

    Moth
    You pwn everything, ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I think what you said before crossing it out was good. You just don't think about whether or not you like someone, and assume you like them unless you have a good reason not to. Even when someone bothers you somehow, you can be upset and then totally forget about it later, and figure that you like them. It just doesn't. . . stick. Even if you think it will. You deal with people how they are. You don't naively think they're all saints, but how you deal with them is less about some permanent judgement and more about how they treat you, or make you feel. . . and maybe how they treat others you know too.

    Sometimes I get a sense of a person that tells me to avoid them, or not to trust them, or maybe they look approachable, or not. A lot of that is just noticing body language and recognizing what it means. Everyone does that - you don't have to be Fi-leading for that. Where I think Fi-leadings have an advantage is in knowing the strength of a connection between themself and others. They know how they feel, and what's there. I have a really hard time quantifying that myself. I don't know how to gauge it. How much do I like someone? How strong is the connection? I don't know. I don't know if I have an internal way to measure that. Instead I rely on clues like my own behavior and reactions to them. I've even done odd things like assume that I must like someone just because they're crazy about me. I match what I'm getting from them. In only very few cases has it been clear that the feelings were actually coming from me, that I felt something, and wasn't just going along with their feelings, convincing myself that I returned them.
    this is good and makes all kinds of sense. I think it's true for beta STs that they don't know what they feel and they kind of look to the other person for clues as to how the other person is feeling about THEM. So... in those cases that you knew the feelings were coming from YOU, how did you realize this? Was it because they were different or stronger somehow?

    I guess this is why you need beta NFs to determine how you feel and act accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by he died with a felafel View Post
    This is bizarre to even admit, but I've noticed sth along those same lines in myself, even though i'm not Fi-leading and maybe wouldn't put it in those same exact words. It is obv. not conscious, and I usually realize what's happened only later on or after the fact, but somehow judgment gets clouded. I find I'm only able to really, properly, assess my own judgment when in complete solitude for a while and w/no external influences whatsoever.

    Def. wouldn't say it is as simple and clear-cut as breathing (like Arctures said). There's a platitude of factors that can influence.

    cheers

    PS: squark: even more bizarre that you self-type as TiSe and that I identify w/certain parts of what you wrote. weirdness unbound
    Well I generally know very well if I like the person or not, I hardly if ever have trouble with that.

    I readily notice when for example some girl I met is atracted to me. If I am atracted to her Ill just act as usual. If not then it depends on how drunk I am. If I am drunk Ill act as usual and if it gets too far Ill just say Im in a relationship(if i am) or that I am not intersted and apologise. And if Im not drunk ill act a bit akward trying not to show in any way I am interested and yet trying to still keep the conversation going as if I am unaware. This actually happens quite often as I generaly enjoy attention and harmless flirt, yet problem is that sometimes its not so harmless on the other end.

    Another example would be in case I am in a relationship. Normally interest for me wades in time while women in general fall in love more and more (which is probably just male/female thing more than type) and in that case I can notice quite readily if my interest fades and I already know that it more or less will end. I still try to see if it will go away for a while but it never does and I have to end the relationship (im still not sure if it is actually the way to go). Point being my attraction does not depend on other persons atraction to me and yes it is easy for me to assess if I like the person or not and what kind of relationship we are having and where it most likely will go.

    Another example could be when two people are akward with each other. Im not exactly sure which cues I use (probably just as everyone, body language etc.) but I actually feel the akwardness myself. So in a way its automatic, I dont think of it or analyse it at that point, I just feel it. Later on obviously I will ponder on the possible reasons in case I do not know them. Or I will ask them whats going on in case I know both of them well. Or I will feel it is best to ask them seperately in case I will think they would be unconfortable speaking their mind in front of the other person.
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    I got a database error the first few times i tried to post this Oo
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    lol, this part is gold:

    "the food is cooked by robots"
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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    He is the flame.

    Moth
    Aww, y'alls makin me blush~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    This is rather informative description of how Fi works; I don't think I could have explained it any better http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post136225
    I too enjoyed Expat's description of Fi.

    The way he differentiates Fi(Se) and Fi(Ne) has got me thinking though.

    If it is the creative function that acts as the "ambition" of a type, then I wonder if one of the ways that Ne blocked with Accepting Fi can manisfest as follows:

    Since Ne is thought of as potentials, being blocked with Fi, it is constantly trying to reach a new "state" of a given relationship. I also realize that another way that Ne works is laterally. In other words, it searches for potential relationships.

    I feel that both works hand-in-hand, since, once a potential relationship has been identified, a new state of the relationship is sought.

    I also speculate that ESIs are "ultra" aware of reality. With Fi being able to detect slight emotional changes (which allows them to determine attraction/repulsion) and with the support of the information element with the most accurate perception of the physical world, it does not surprise me that they are often deemed the "moral enforcers". I've always had an admiration of ESIs for their strength, their ability to uphold high standards in themselves and, if circumstances deem it necessary, even demanding it in others.

    Perhaps others can validate this, but I have witnessed this to be what the LIE type seeks. A rock, to say the least, or someone who isn't trying to "transform" the relationship, but solidifying it just as it is. Hence, an almost obsessive search for loyalty (of course, all types seek it, but I think LIEs are quite possibly the most hurt without it).

    In contrast, where as LIEs search for loyalty, I think LSEs search for intimacy and closeness (hence, a new level). Again, every individual desires this, but the degree in which this is sought may peak with the LSE personality type.

    Maybe I could graph all of this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    I too enjoyed Expat's description of Fi.

    The way he differentiates Fi(Se) and Fi(Ne) has got me thinking though.

    If it is the creative function that acts as the "ambition" of a type, then I wonder if one of the ways that Ne blocked with Accepting Fi can manisfest as follows:

    Since Ne is thought of as potentials, being blocked with Fi, it is constantly trying to reach a new "state" of a given relationship. I also realize that another way that Ne works is laterally. In other words, it searches for potential relationships.

    I feel that both works hand-in-hand, since, once a potential relationship has been identified, a new state of the relationship is sought.

    I also speculate that ESIs are "ultra" aware of reality. With Fi being able to detect slight emotional changes (which allows them to determine attraction/repulsion) and with the support of the information element with the most accurate perception of the physical world, it does not surprise me that they are often deemed the "moral enforcers". I've always had an admiration of ESIs for their strength, their ability to uphold high standards in themselves and, if circumstances deem it necessary, even demanding it in others.

    Perhaps others can validate this, but I have witnessed this to be what the LIE type seeks. A rock, to say the least, or someone who isn't trying to "transform" the relationship, but solidifying it just as it is. Hence, an almost obsessive search for loyalty (of course, all types seek it, but I think LIEs are quite possibly the most hurt without it).

    In contrast, where as LIEs search for loyalty, I think LSEs search for intimacy and closeness (hence, a new level). Again, every individual desires this, but the degree in which this is sought may peak with the LSE personality type.

    Maybe I could graph all of this...
    They don't seem like they are looking for intimacy and closeness; every time I've shown them that, they turned around and slapped me with a closed door...that's not really a good interpretation. It would be nice if they showed me that what I've been offering (just being myself) is what they are looking for...just doesn't seem that way so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    They don't seem like they are looking for intimacy and closeness; every time I've shown them that, they turned around and slapped me with a closed door...that's not really a good interpretation. It would be nice if they showed me that what I've been offering (just being myself) is what they are looking for...just doesn't seem that way so far.
    Maritsa33, you have to realize that not every LSE is going to be instantly receptive to every EII. And if you are concerned about the LSEs in the forum, I don't think it necessarily fosters an environment of closeness.

    I see that you do try to reach out, but sometimes the way you do it seems a little too eager, which may deter LSEs that are not accustomed to your methods.

    Don't place your self-worth on what goes on in the forum and don't give up.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Maritsa33, you have to realize that not every LSE is going to be instantly receptive to every EII. And if you are concerned about the LSEs in the forum, I don't think it necessarily fosters an environment of closeness.

    I see that you do try to reach out, but sometimes the way you do it seems a little too eager, which may deter LSEs that are not accustomed to your methods.

    Don't place your self-worth on what goes on in the forum and don't give up.
    Good advice.
    Also consider possible differences in what 'closeness' means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Maritsa33, you have to realize that not every LSE is going to be instantly receptive to every EII. And if you are concerned about the LSEs in the forum, I don't think it necessarily fosters an environment of closeness.

    I see that you do try to reach out, but sometimes the way you do it seems a little too eager, which may deter LSEs that are not accustomed to your methods.
    I reach out to most people on the same level; your advise IS worth shit TO ME; it's absolutely theoretical and non of it stems from real life. You see (????) me reach out (???????); how do you do that? By what perception?


    My methods are Fi,

    I don't have methods for doing Fi; I approach relationships based on how I feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Don't place your self-worth on what goes on in the forum and don't give up.
    Look at your sentance above: DON'T PUT YOUR SELF WORTH.... SELF WORTH? Don't give up? You're advising me not to give up?

    I'm not giving up, YOU ARE INACCURATELY GOUGING MY FEELINGS. I AM FRUSTRATED, UPSET ANGRY AND SAD; I'M NOT FUCKING GIVING UP.

    EII GENERALLY NEVER GIVE UP; YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS (SAYING THAT YOU'RE EII).
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-30-2010 at 12:28 AM.

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    I told this to people; I'll consider you being whatever type when you VI (unless I see clear writing that you are a certain type). That's my system and it's pretty damn rigid but I don't give a shit.

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    chill, maritsa, it's all good

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I'm not giving up, YOU ARE INACCURATELY GOUGING MY FEELINGS. I AM FRUSTRATED, UPSET ANGRY AND SAD; I'M NOT FUCKING GIVING UP.
    Leave those EII's alone, Greeter. There can only be one.

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    I see it as something akin to an orientation. People are drawn to things, and "repulsed" by other things. Much like a magnet. Sometimes the pull is very strong, drawing you in until that something is a part of you. Other times it's just a very slight pull, just enough to catch your attention. And yet other times the thing so repulses you that you want to run. And again, other things may just push you away enough that you turn your back to it. So it's not a black vs white thing, but varied levels of attraction and varied levels of "repulsion".

    Many people make mistakes in interpreting whether a person is attracted to something or repulsed by something else. My brother gave a simple example once that fit perfectly. If you take a simple celled organism, and flash a light at one side of it. It'll turn. It may turn to the light, or to the dark. Some people interpret it turning to the light as 'it is attracted to the light', others as 'it is repulsed by the dark'. Which one is correct? You can't really tell from such a simple response.

    When dealing with people, we have the advantage of asking them. We may predict what their answer is going to be, but if we don't test that prediction, then we risk deluding ourselves into believing that our interpretation is the correct one. Which can create conflicts, particularly if we act upon erroneous interpretations, and/or insist that the other person is oriented a certain way...dismissing anything that they may say about their actual orientation.

    Sometimes, a situation is complex enough that we can be both drawn to AND repulsed by it. Parts of it we want/like, other parts we don't. Some parts we are majorly drawn to, others just a little, but all this may balance with a super strong repulsion to yet another part..which may (or may not) win out in the end.

    This information can be used for understanding people's orientations in various parts of their lives. It can also be used to help in understanding information that's given. Often times I've remembered something by the feeling it gave me (how it & I were oriented to each other). If I recall the feeling in greater detail, then I can remember the information in greater detail. I've also used this in helping me to decipher some 'arguments' presented by certain individuals. If I know what they are oriented to, it helps me put the 'argument' in context. Also, as I'm reading it, I'm orienting myself as best I can to what they are saying, so that I can try to follow their path of thought. The more it's linked with some of my own thoughts/studies, the easier it will be for me to follow. Sometimes while doing this, I'll feel a sudden split, it can be quite painful. At the point where the split was triggered, there is usually some kind of jump in thought to a new direction, or a conflicting idea. Alas, I've yet to learn how to use that to create a returning 'argument'.

    The orientation is also how some types will empathize with others.
    We find out what a person's orientation is, step out of our own orientation, and step into theirs. It's akin to trying to 'walk a mile in another person's shoes'.

    Other types will sympathize with others by imagining themselves in the situation. Unfortunately, this brings along their own personal orientations, and not the orientations of the one they are sympathizing with. Which can lead to misunderstandings.

    I hope this helped answer the question some.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    ...
    hey take a break
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    What I see is many Fi activators lending support to me and realizing my emotions.

    And many who I've formed close relations with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What I see is many Fi activators lending support to me and realizing my emotions.

    And many who I've formed close relations with.
    STOP ANALYSING :-p
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    STOP ANALYSING :-p
    I know.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I reach out to most people on the same level; your advise IS worth shit TO ME; it's absolutely theoretical and non of it stems from real life. You see (????) me reach out (???????); how do you do that? By what perception?

    My methods are Fi,

    I don't have methods for doing Fi; I approach relationships based on how I feel.

    Look at your sentance above: DON'T PUT YOUR SELF WORTH.... SELF WORTH? Don't give up? You're advising me not to give up?

    I'm not giving up, YOU ARE INACCURATELY GOUGING MY FEELINGS. I AM FRUSTRATED, UPSET ANGRY AND SAD; I'M NOT FUCKING GIVING UP.

    EII GENERALLY NEVER GIVE UP; YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS (SAYING THAT YOU'RE EII).
    I know you won't give up. I apologize for upsetting you, it was not my intention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd
    Leave those EII's alone, Greeter. There can only be one.
    Thanks, Absurd. This made me feel better.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Good advice.
    Also consider possible differences in what 'closeness' means.
    To you it mean the farthest point from you; to me, it means the closest proximity to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    I know you won't give up. I apologize for upsetting you, it was not my intention.

    You can learn to love and support people (that's using your Fi) and STOP giving them bull shit advise. Fi types who don't know how to love is a joke to me.

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