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Thread: ILI-LSE Supervision relationship (INTp & ESTj)

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    Default ILI-LSE Supervision relationship (INTp & ESTj)

    Could something like this work, based on socionics theory and practice?
    I see INTPs as not getting me, most of the time they just donīt get what I say, or when they do get a joke or something, they donīt give much appreciation to it. They seem far too pessimistic also. I wonder what a relationship btw. an ESTJ and an INTP would look like. Anyone has any ideas? Is the INTP really obstruse and incapable of understanding the enthusiasm and character of the ESTJ, and the ESTJ unable to understand what the INTP wants but never says explicitly so itīs like the ESTJ has to read her mind which Iīm yet incapable of doing lol.

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    It would look like the ILI is supervising the LSE.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    It would look like the ILI is supervising the LSE.
    Yes... fuck.

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    The communication between myself and other ESTj's is absolutely brutal. The ESTJ - TE subtypes just rub me the wrong way. I have had one for a boss the past year and it has not been pleasant. She "nags" the rules and never follows them. The one thing I respect from them is that they can push other people and get the best out of them.

    Reasons for communication problems:
    Whenever they talk, I feel they are repeating information I already know. Then they repeat this information or talk louder because they feel I am not attentive.
    When this results in 'correcting' my mistakes it comes off as rubbing salt in the wound.

    I often have nothing to add to their comments. I did not realize that I might be patronizing them until I read a supervor relation description. I try to avoid it, but it is just natural.


    I have no idea what to do to improve this relationships. I do feel that both sides want it to work out because of their competitive nature, but the communication gap is way too large ime. The best bet for the ESTj is to leave an INTp alone!
    /

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    I happen to be quite familiar with this topic. I was best friends with an ILI for two years and grew very attached to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoshyant View Post
    Whenever they talk, I feel they are repeating information I already know. Then they repeat this information or talk louder because they feel I am not attentive.
    We expect a grunt so we know you heard us. Of course, hearing and not grunting is personally less aggrivating than not hearing and grunting, like my SEI brother does sometimes.

    He really seemed to enjoy making me contradict myself, which is hard to do unless you're an INTx who's in the mood to argue. He enjoyed confusing me more than I disliked being confused, so I didn't mind.

    I minded that he never talked about himself. When someone's interested in hearing about someone, they're glad to talk about themselves, right? Apparently not.

    I loved it when we teamed up against someone, like our EII-Ne friend. I didn't like it when he started teaming up with people against me, but didn't mind nearly as much when I knew it was temporary.

    ILIs are very whitty. If someone followed one around for a year and wrote down things they said, it would sell. Of course, the person would have to be very careful, since an ILI could probably tell they were being followed and wouldn't like it.

    It's a very frustrating roller coaster. It was either terrific or horrible, with not much of an in-between. When he seemed unfriendly, I always felt like I did something wrong and agonized over what it could be. I'm still wondering why he decided we weren't friends anymore. Of course he was silent when I asked. He never liked being asked "Why" questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Iīm kind of into an ILI girl. VERY MUCH. And sheīs into me very much.

    FUCK.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    And sheīs into me very much.
    Really? How'd you find out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    Could something like this work, based on socionics theory and practice?
    I see INTPs as not getting me, most of the time they just donīt get what I say, or when they do get a joke or something, they donīt give much appreciation to it. They seem far too pessimistic also. I wonder what a relationship btw. an ESTJ and an INTP would look like. Anyone has any ideas? Is the INTP really obstruse and incapable of understanding the enthusiasm and character of the ESTJ, and the ESTJ unable to understand what the INTP wants but never says explicitly so itīs like the ESTJ has to read her mind which Iīm yet incapable of doing lol.
    I would say that you are right, both INTp's and ISTp's can be pessimistic sometimes. The relationship doesn't look all that great. My girl-friend, the ESTj, who is marred to an ISTp ( I think you mean ISTp and not INTp here, they can be easily confused for the other, but INTp are not naturally attracted to ESTj), has a difficult time with her husband. He will often not get her jokes, just as you described. He puts all his chores on her and she is often overloaded with chores, plus inability to communicate and get him to do things, frustrates her. She is often met by frustration when he doesn't do simple tasks and when he fails to have an intellectually fulfilling conversation with her. He is often quiet and passive, and not proactive to her complaints. It’s like trying to drag a horse to a well and not being able to communicate to it, to ask it to drink water. She gets a lot of blank stairs and a lot of laziness from him. Their energy is not at the same pace; my ESTj friend wanted to take ballroom dancing, where a partner was required, but often ended up going by herself because, although he gave impressions (when they were first dating) that he was excited and willing to do many activities with her, he ended up opting out of so many. Communication problems and driving her to overwork so that he can buy the next materially fulfilling object are among the many problems they face.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-25-2010 at 06:09 AM.

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    Bow to the Ninchucks Microknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I would say that you are right, bot INTp's and ISTp's can be pessimistic sometimes. The relationship doesn't look all that great. My girl-friend, the ESTj, who is marred to an ISTp ( I think you mean ISTp and not INTp here, they can be easily confused for the other, but INTp are not naturally attracted to ESTj), has a difficult time with her husband. He will often not get her jokes, just as you described. He puts all his chores on her and she is often overloaded with chores, plus inability to communicate and get him to do things, frustrates her. She is often met by frustration when he doesn't do simple tasks and when he fails to have an intellectually fulfilling conversation with her. He is often quite and passive, and not proactive to her complaints. It’s like trying to drag a horse to a well and not being able to communicate to it, to ask it to drink water. She gets a lot of blank stairs and a lot of laziness from him. Their energy is not at the same pace; my ESTj friend wanted to take ballroom dancing, where a partner was required, but often ended up going by herself because, although he gave impressions (when they were first dating) that he was excited and willing to do many activities with her, he ended up opting out of so many. Communication problems and driving her to overwork so that he can buy the next materially fulfilling object are among the many problems they face.
    Spot on. My older brother is LSE and this describes our relationship well. I just spent the last 6 months or so living with him and I am not going to do that again. Collaboration between us is often difficult and strained, because the LSE likes to plan things for US to do (when I would prefer to do no planning, to take advantage of a future situation.) . When the date to do something rolls around my brother would get often upset at my frequent absences, and say something like "Where were you? WE planned to do such and such..." And I would reply "No, YOU planned to do such and such, I planned nothing." From my point of view, he was including me in his plans without my consent. I, of course, would have no part in such a plan, as this gives another person undue control over my person. The only person that has control over my person is me.

    The humor thing is also true. Nearly 100% of the time I find my brother's jokes (and indeed, most LSEs) to be lacking in cleverness or subtlety. On occasion I will think "That was quick witted, but not clever." This isn't a major sticking point, unlike the difficulty in collaboration, but it is nonetheless an important one, as it contributes to the relationship being boring.

    Now if I take my experiences with my brother and apply them to the specific situation of the ILI-LSE relationship (and take this with a grain of salt, as it is completely subjective), I think that for a close relationship, this one is doomed from the start. The differences in energy level are going to leave the LSE frustrated and the ILI aloof. A more distant relationship may be alright, as from afar the LSE admires the ILI and the ILI finds the LSE useful.

    I do have experiences with other LSEs, but none of those were close enough for me to make a judgment on the nature of the relationship.

    That's it for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Microknight View Post
    Spot on. My older brother is LSE and this describes our relationship well. I just spent the last 6 months or so living with him and I am not going to do that again. Collaboration between us is often difficult and strained, because the LSE likes to plan things for US to do (when I would prefer to do no planning, to take advantage of a future situation.) . When the date to do something rolls around my brother would get often upset at my frequent absences, and say something like "Where were you? WE planned to do such and such..." And I would reply "No, YOU planned to do such and such, I planned nothing." From my point of view, he was including me in his plans without my consent. I, of course, would have no part in such a plan, as this gives another person undue control over my person. The only person that has control over my person is me.

    The humor thing is also true. Nearly 100% of the time I find my brother's jokes (and indeed, most LSEs) to be lacking in cleverness or subtlety. On occasion I will think "That was quick witted, but not clever." This isn't a major sticking point, unlike the difficulty in collaboration, but it is nonetheless an important one, as it contributes to the relationship being boring.

    Now if I take my experiences with my brother and apply them to the specific situation of the ILI-LSE relationship (and take this with a grain of salt, as it is completely subjective), I think that for a close relationship, this one is doomed from the start. The differences in energy level are going to leave the LSE frustrated and the ILI aloof. A more distant relationship may be alright, as from afar the LSE admires the ILI and the ILI finds the LSE useful.

    I do have experiences with other LSEs, but none of those were close enough for me to make a judgment on the nature of the relationship.

    That's it for now.
    On the humor, every once in a while they get a good one, or so the literature says (just kidding!); they do get some good jokes, although the majority of them can be rather offending.

    Yeah, LSE can be useful to ILI and SLI, especially with regards to doing things for them, that most often their duals would not ask them to do, like asking them to make a sandwich for them. (A particular situation comes to mind)

    Also, the demanding and controling nature of LSE may bother the otherwise relaxed and easy ILI or SLI, this is that difference in energy. Where one gets something once the other needs more information to understand, or where one does something fast and in a hurry, the other often takes a long time, with attention to details, to accomplish the same task to their satisfaction, therefore, getting on each other's nerves, one telling the other to hurry up or to rush.

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    thanks.

    I donīt mean ISTP Maritsa, sheīs clearly INTP, not ISTP, she herself typed her that way after I typed her that way.

    Anyway ISTP would be better than INTP , because INTP with ESTJ very much sucks, my father is INTP and thereīs a big gap in communication itīs like he does not get me, just this. Iīm getting this problem with this girl also she does not get me most of the time. And sheīs too reclusive and into herself like my father... this is not a problem until thereīs a lack of affection demonstration on the part of the INTP. They can seem totally cold and when you say that, they will say 'absolutely not' and start telling how they like you and admire you. But they just cannot do this. Itīs a very complicated type for me to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    thanks.

    I donīt mean ISTP Maritsa, sheīs clearly INTP, not ISTP, she herself typed her that way after I typed her that way.

    Anyway ISTP would be better than INTP , because INTP with ESTJ very much sucks, my father is INTP and thereīs a big gap in communication itīs like he does not get me, just this. Iīm getting this problem with this girl also she does not get me most of the time. And sheīs too reclusive and into herself like my father... this is not a problem until thereīs a lack of affection demonstration on the part of the INTP. They can seem totally cold and when you say that, they will say 'absolutely not' and start telling how they like you and admire you. But they just cannot do this. Itīs a very complicated type for me to deal with.
    This ILI/ INTp member related very well to what I wrote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    This ILI/ INTp member related very well to what I wrote.
    Perhaps that member is actually ISTp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cinq View Post
    Perhaps that member is actually ISTp.
    That's the point I was trying to make with Airborne; that he can easily confuse the two.

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    Default ILI-LSE Supervision

    Anyone have experience with this relationship?

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    I'd like to say that I've seen this happen irl, but I can't seem to remember where and when... What comes to mind is that the way INTps go about work related tasks, where they are able to somehow just do what is needed without really breaking a sweat unless they really have to or work around "the system," might be something intimidating for them. I think both types have a very different philosophy when it comes to how to get things done, or overcoming problems, be it at work or at home. The INTp approach (actually could apply to any type with some Ni focus) is to not work on things unless you really have to and not to do more than what is needed. I've noticed that sometimes LSEs don't look at the "big picture" about what they are doing and just expend more and more energy until the problem is solved, without noticing that there's actually a more efficient way of doing it if you have a lazier mentality about things .

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    I was wondering about the effects of LSE getting PoLR hits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Anyone have experience with this relationship?
    My old man was very possibly LSE. "Adversarial" described our relationship well.

    A supervisor at one job was also likely LSE and we locked horns almost continually.

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    Yes, but I may have issues with distinguishing LSEs and E1s here. I see those I know in real life a lot like Lobo describes, ants doing lots of low-level work, the effects of which they often don't consider in the first place. I definitely see them as energy-wasting and having workaholic tendencies, focusing on doing things rather than getting them done. It's kind of ambiguous because I consider it a negative trait for them, but it can be seen as positive for others, because if there's a particular work to be done, they'll usually do it. LSEs, followed by ESE, have probably the highest "work ethics" of the socion on average.

    Relation-wise, they tend to implement my ideas, even those I'm not serious about, so I learned to be cautious about voicing those around them. It's important to show them you appreciate their work (don't call it useless even when it is!), even if in fact you value being able to minimize the effort and therefore don't care for the way they go about it. All in all - and that's probably a pretty good sign of supervision in general - I tend to like rather than respect them. I can see the conflict happening when supervisor is careless, or for social reasons the supervisee is supposed to have authority, for example when they're the parent, teacher, boss etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Anyone have experience with this relationship?
    A couple years' worth. What would you like to know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    I was wondering about the effects of LSE getting PoLR hits.
    I didn't have a problem with that. I knew he was a .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Anyone have experience with this relationship?
    yes.

    it's nice to be the supervisor. hehehe.

    but sex with LSE is boring.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    To be more specific, there was this one girl in my class, who I thought was an LSE or mabe LSI. Either way, she caught my attention and I was impressed by her interest in the unknown, Jimi Hendrix, hippie spirituality, nature etc, but whenever I tried to get close she just seemed like she was on the defense without ever actually being against my company. She seemed to be neurotic all the time and really stressed out.

    If she was LSE, that would explain her behavior. If she was LSI that would explain my fascination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold
    I was impressed by her interest in the unknown, Jimi Hendrix, hippie spirituality...
    She could be any type, to be fair.

    ...But she'd be a pretty unique LSE.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Hmm yeah, she had a real business-like no nonsense demeanor though which is what led me to that conclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    her interest in the unknown, Jimi Hendrix, hippie spirituality, nature etc
    Those don't sound like LSE interests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    I was just putting it out there. She was definitely introverted, home body. I guess the possible types are: ILI, LLI, LSI.

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