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    Default Temperaments

    Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus quoting someone else
    1. EJ Ė Extroverted rational (linear-vigorous temperament)

    Energy exchange. Clearly noticeably expends energy. Usually gives all that he has. Works swiftly and intensively. As long as he has strength he recklessly wastes it. He uses up all of his energy and then collapses with exhaustion. There is no middle ground: either maximum usage of energy (sometimes close to maximum) or total inactivity.

    Recommended sports. Team sports, long-distance racing, skiing, skating, bicycle riding, auto-sport, etc.

    Emotions and behavior. Straightforward, clear, rough/rigorous, no maneuvering. Not likely to have inner doubts or hesitation. They are sharp and implacable, and their actions are totally predictable. They often end up being the victims of the surroundings Ė non-dutiful other people, unstable situations and chaotic occurrences.


    2. EP Ė Extroverted irrational (flexible-laid back temperament)

    Energy exchange. Highly dependant on external information. They are calm when there is no need to use energy, but they switch on with full power when they need to be active. Itís very difficult for them to keep energy expansion at a high level for a longer period of time. In order to have flexible-laid back temperament, people have to be able to do many activities at the same time. (For example J.Caesar, who was able to read, write and talk at the same time)

    Recommended sports. Body building, wrestling, weightlifting and boxing, shot-putting, hammer throwing, etc.

    Emotions and behavior. The main trait of this temperament is the rapid changes in mood and status. This is how they differ from EJ. They canít stand routine and predictability. Emotions seem as unexpected flashes in their generally relaxed mood. In a moment rage can turn into indifference. Note that their emotions depend on the external changes, not on the inner psychological reasons. Their behavior is very hard to analyze because it doesnít follow any linear rules. Instead their behavior resembles a broken curve, because they try to get everything done at the same time. They give an impulse to one activity, continue doing the next activity, etc. (they keep switching between various activities). This is the only way they can get things done and it enables them to achieve a lot more than any other method.


    3. IJ Ė Introverted rational (balanced-stable temperament)

    Energy Exchange. They always try to conserve energy and keep it for activities that are objectively necessary. They are afraid of excess activity and non-productive exhaustion of their strength. These are the most energy-saving and sensible people. They look restrained and calm and they distance themselves from the meaningless things that happen around them. They are meticulous, and they dislike doing anything differently from the usual pattern. They are very static and inert, but also very steady and they always finish what they started. They can not adapt in rapidly changing and extreme situations. They quickly lose their working capacity and they get ill very often.

    Recommended sports. Yoga and similar healing slow sports, running marathons, etc.

    Emotions and behavior. At first glance, they seem to have no emotions at all because they are just so good at controlling their emotions. Actually they are just waiting for the right moment to let the emotions out to the right people. They can hold on to emotions for a very long time, which is what makes them the most likely to have accumulated stress. This means that they can get stress because they have been gathering emotions, but havenít been expressing them. They might have random emotional outbursts. The rage of an IJ type is very scary, because he can collect insults for months or even for years. Their behavior is very consistent and predictable. Their actions donít depend on the changes in the environment, they have their own rigid firm moral and practical norms. When there are conflicts between their norms and the reality, they get nervous and they start bottling up bad emotions. They need activities that amuse/entertain them and give them emotional and physical relaxation.


    4. IP Ė Introverted irrational (perception-adapting temperament)

    Energy exchange. Energy level is very unstable. They react to discomfort very strongly, which is why they use their energy to avoid unacceptable conditions or to create comfort. On their rare moments of activity, they become similar to the representatives of the EP temperament, but on their moments of inactivity, they seem similar to the representatives of the IJ temperament. They tend to hide from the world and cope with their personal resources, which are bigger than they might seem to others. They are not able to constantly manage with energy exchange rhythm. Their working capacity is smaller than it is for the other temperaments. They only work effectively when they are perceiving the need for it or when there are important circumstances which they canít ignore. There is no point in pushing those people, because they will seemingly agree with the aggressor, but will find ways to evade their duties. They either canít or wonít overwork and they donít share other peopleís enthusiasm in principle.

    Recommended sports. Gracefully rhythmic sports (swimming, riding the bicycle) or sprinting (short distance), jumping, etc.

    Emotions and behavior. Highly sensitive to the emotions of others. They canít stand unstable moods or stormy emotions, which is why they avoid conflict and they try to solve misunderstandings. They donít try to change the situation, they adapt to it by showing extraordinary ingenuity and flexibility. In relaxing, comfortable and safe situations they bloom, become good and social people. They try to be good towards their surroundings and act in a kind and caring way. They are pleasant and easygoing people in close relations and cold and distant towards all others. Itís necessary to treat them in a caring and attentive way to preserve their vulnerable emotionality and fragile nervous system.


    How to determine a personís temperament

    The temperament in socionics is a dynamic quantity because it describes the energy consumption process and it shows the volume and speed of the changes in energy expenditure. This is why the temperament can be determined by monitoring the movements and activities of the person. We must observe how that person walks, works and does sports.

    EJ Ė walks very fast in a determined way, doesnít look on the sides. Other people must step out of his way and make him room. Works rhythmically with a certain cyclic manner, sometimes works too rapidly. In sports, gives all he can give.

    EP Ė walks fast, goes around obstacles, keeps changing his walking trajectory. Often stops and looks back and also keeps looking on his sides. Works in a chaotic pattern that only he understands, sometimes works eagerly, sometimes slugs. In sports, he likes to rest and gather his strength between the exercises.

    IJ Ė walks rhythmically, doesnít deviate from his trajectory, indifferent to his surroundings. Works slowly, finishes his task before he starts with the next one. In sports, tries to spend as little energy as possible. Does sports slowly without any real enthusiasm or briskness.

    IP Ė walks in a somewhat limp and gutless way. Walks around obstacles. Heís careful and tries to notice all the obstacles. Tries to finish all the necessary tasks very quickly so he could go back to relaxing. He gets tired very quickly. Moves fluently and tries to relax very often. He enjoys slow rhythmic activities, avoids any kind of heavy load.

    If we are able to successfully determine the persons temperament, we will narrow possible types down to only 4 types. It is obvious why temperament is so important in socionics type diagnosis. It is also a very simple method: you just have to be observant and you have to have theoretical socionics knowledge.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    These are actually pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    These are actually pretty good.
    I completely identify with EP. Especially the part about being dependent on external stimuli and not on my internal states. I even like doing things that risk my well-being instead of doing them more sensibly.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I completely identify with EP. Especially the part about being dependent on external stimuli and not on my internal states. It goes further than that. I've been willing to completely risk my health to do dangerous things that could have been done more sensibly.
    Hahaha. I wouldn't say I identify with that last part, but I really did identify with the Ep description too. I've also noticed lots of similarities between the Ej description and Ejs I know, although I'm not sure it's a case of "all or nothing." I haven't interacted with enough Ijs to give my mind on the Ij descriptor. The part about Ips shirking their duties made me lol.

    I don't particularly care for the "how to spot" section though. I walk quickly when I need to, and don't when I don't.

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    I would say it's accurate for extraverts, a little bit too extreme on the energy-conserving side for introverts. I know plenty of introverts that practice road cycling, if I were to apply what those descriptions say, that wouldn't be possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Hahaha. I wouldn't say I identify with that last part, but I really did identify with the Ep description too. I've also noticed lots of similarities between the Ej description and Ejs I know, although I'm not sure it's a case of "all or nothing." I haven't interacted with enough Ijs to give my mind on the Ij descriptor. The part about Ips shirking their duties made me lol.

    I don't particularly care for the "how to spot" section though. I walk quickly when I need to, and don't when I don't.
    Cool. The "how to spot" section is a perfect description of how I walk.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I would say it's accurate for extraverts, a little bit too extreme on the energy-conserving side for introverts. I know plenty of introverts that practice road cycling, if I were to apply what those descriptions say, that wouldn't be possible.
    I concur with this point.

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    I don't fit with the IJ description really. It's good to know temperament, but still not take it too seriously. I'm pretty sure I fit with the IP temperament description completely. But since I identify with Ti so much, then I chose INTj. If I were to identify with Ne the most, I would be ENTp, regardless of temperament or energy I think.

    You could have a crazy energetic Ti dominant INTj with a more lazy and introverted ESFj. This is more rare (I think I've seen it with two other duals), but viable. I wouldn't think that dichotomies are more informative than the information elements, unless there is a sort of tie and uncertainty as to which IMs you relate with. Though if there is a tie, then just think about what your PoLR is.

    Because even if you want to regard temperament and mix things up a little more, an Ne dominant will always be either ENTp or ENFp, I'm pretty sure. I still do think temperament helps a bit at first. I don't know for certain though if its really worth too much in Socionics. Still thinking about it, but from my experience only 40-50% of types seem to fit with their according temperament description here. I know that all of the Ne dominants I know who are alphas have Fi-PoLR, so they couldn't be INTjs. None of the delta Fi dominants I know have Ti-PoLR, so seems unlikely that temperament would really play a role, and they each seem to fit into these descriptions randomly (I've just as much seen IP, IJ, EJ for ENFps as I've seen EP). I've seen some examples someone else has shown me of Fi dominants who allegedly have Ti-PoLR (Fi-ENFps), but I didn't agree. I think they either were either INFj or ENFp. Most of them were Ne dominant (ENFp).

    So again, not prioritizing temperament too much. I've been taught well in the past to stick with the information elements. Or else I'm a definite IP. A bonus category of sorts that doesn't seem intertype relation related. Yeah... it's interesting to theorize about, but it's not the most reliable thing obviously.

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    I understand. The problem is similar to you at a personal level, but I don't want to put too much weight on temperament generally because of my past experiences, in it just being too variable. I'm sticking with the straightforward rule of: Ti dominant will either be INTj or ISTj. I know in your theory, its einstein who is actually a Ti dominant even though he's ENTp, but there are some other Ti-ENTps there who I might be inclined to think are INTjs (I can't remember who it is from memory, but a few people.) I'm all for subtypes and have begun seeing some minor differences between subtypes, but nothing that changes what the dominant information element is simply because they fit the same temperament or look similarly in the eyes, you know. I just see more benefit in understanding the types and have begun seeing clearer correlations in grouping them together based on the original "types", without basing it on too many extra theories.

    Temperament was never one of those theories that I could see much use for (maybe for the same reasons you see use for it: that it helps) but for me it ultimately helps more not to have them. And I think I'm a Ti dominant from reading descriptions, over Ne dominant. In your understanding of the types though, I don't really have anything against being Ne-INFj, since I think it was a better call with your sample and concept of Fi vs Ti, and Ne vs Ti, but there still are some differences I'm seeing between your subjective understanding and my subjective understanding (not that I can fully understand where you're coming from, and my subjective understanding is essentially reading different perspectives and articles of information, and not knowing what is true or false). I am basically still trying to grasp onto an outer understanding of the theory, without making too many of my own calls, or personalizing my understanding too much. As far as I can see, most people don't have much use for temperaments either.

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    I understand. Let me try to explain what I know. A dominant information element being "statics of objects" assumes that the temperament is EP. "statics of fields" IJ. "dynamics of fields" IP. "dynamics of objects" EJ. This is how it's supposed to work, but essentially what I see in what someone like Gulenko sees in his four temperament descriptions, or what I think aushra would conclude, are actually loosely connected to the types themselves (the tri-code system (ie EOD) is not what comes first--the IM descriptions come first, and then are categorized from there). They're connected, but his description of EP, for example, it does not actually mean strictly that whoever fits this description will have a dominant attitude of "statics of objects," but that there is some amount of likelihood that a "statics of objects" type will fit with much of the behavior described. Essentially, in theory it describes the similarity between Se and Ne, however it does it in such a way where it is abstracted (this is obvious, because a personality is real thing, so the science here will always be fuzzy), and then respecified, so the description in terms of "temperament" will never apply consistently enough, where as something like "information element" applies more directly to the type, because it deals much more closely with who the type is in reality. These are my personal observations.

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    IP > IJ for me. The others don't come close. What temperament would you say tennis falls under?

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    IJ with a strong IP secondary temperament. Although I think walk most like an EP.
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    I agree with everything but I'm not 'gutless.' If anything Ejs seem way more insecure than me because they seem to be expending unnecessary energy, but it's just a matter of perception I guess. I just don't think it's 'gutless.'

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    boo
    Last edited by bnd; 07-23-2010 at 07:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    IP/EPs are better at things like wrestling and arm wrestling, I agree- and EJ/IJ though would most likely win an all-out fight though. I beat a lot of guys at arm wrestling when I was younger, despite the fact that I hate sports and unnecessary expending of energy to throw a ball through a hoop and pretend that I'm cool.

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    IP: Not prone to many physical disorders, but the 2nd weakest type. Stereotypical slow/sluggish strength with short surprising bursts of powerful gonzo porn energy to cripple/main an opponent or multiple opponents at once.

    EP: 2nd strongest type physically. Keeps head in the game, steady and powerful movements. Paces and focuses self, can be on the slow side though.

    EJ: The strongest type physically. Keeps up both speed and endurance.

    IJ: The weakest type physically, Se-polr makes them the type most likely to have a lot of physical disorders sadly. Need to put a lot of effort not to get physically down. When they do strike, they also are not very coordinated or focused.

    I feel sorry for IJs. Weakest type physically and they're not even the strongest type magically either. They are so victimy and need so much protection.

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    I thought that since temperaments are really connected with functions (for example, an Ej is supposed to signify an extroverted Feeling/Thinking (Fe/Te) type) that when you introduce subtypes or if you type by subtypes at all, you should correspondingly alter the temperaments and consider the subtypes, that they become a mix. I think that the Ep description describes a clearly defined Se/Ne subtype, but I feel that being Fi subtype makes me something more of an Ep/Ij ambivert..I definitely relate to a sizeable chunk of the Ij description. And Te INTps are fucking crazy lol.

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    It seems like in team sports there's more EPs, I think the rules in sports make up for them not being as rawly powerful as EJs. Just seems like I see more EPs in 'group sports' and more EJs in 'individual sports.'

    But get an EJ and an EP together in a parking lot at night, and the EJ is more likelier to win I hate to say it but it's true.

    And I can beat up most IJs too. I just can, I'm sorry but it's true. They are just NOT IN THEIR BODIES AT ALL. And it makes me sad but it's part of the reason my IJ daddy got a stroke. =( Se polr sucks lol.

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    Fi-ESFp is IJ, Ni-ESFp is IP, Te-ESFp is EJ, lol. Yeah, this makes sense. I guess I'm an Si-INTj? Fun.

    I've seen a lot of good relationships with both of the same temperaments, but two different types: like I think Si-ESFj goes well with Si-INTj, etc.

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    The IP fits me best. Especially the part about doing things quickly to conserve energy and the ability to appear EP in public and IJ is private... the EP and IJ fit me about equally and EJ the least.
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    The temperaments should directly follow from the IEs and vice versa. People really underestimate just how much EPs are dependent on external stimuli. That EP description is a perfect explanation of the mental process behind and IMO.

    I don't think subtypes change temperaments very much. Maybe in how the temperaments are outwardly expressed for others to see, but not significantly.

    In both IEs what's emphasized is the ability to quickly react to changes and to have maximum flexibility without any attachments. and formulate a static picture, but since the world isn't innately static, we don't have the luxury of keeping it. It becomes important to constantly update it and to extract as much information as possible from external stimuli. There is always external information that contradict internal signals, which always end up being ignored.

    When VI-ing dominance, what I look for is whether the person is constantly scanning the environment (as in every second), looking for changes, updating his perception and mental catalog about the stimuli around him so he can hone in on what's of interest.

    In order to roughly gauge how the immediate situation will unfold, they appreciate someone with strong whom they can observe reacting beforehand to any expected changes.

    The dual doesn't necessarily have to verbalize anything; duality often works by seeing the dual act in certain ways around you, emit certain body language, then forming an understanding of his intent based on that. You're programmed to perceive the information that your dual naturally generates and this unconscious perception is what gets activated.



    dominance is harder to VI because the IE is internal and hidden, but what I look for is how easy it is to engage the person's curiosity. Just how far is he willing to question his beliefs and gather the maximum amount of conceptual, factual, whatever information as possible while building that mental picture. Which is usually a never-ending process and the source of the calculated doubt associated with but not . The observation that they will overuse the imperative verb form to express conditional certainty is right on.

    Reminds me of this Russian joke:
    When Don Quixote says yes, he means maybe.
    When he says maybe, he means no.
    When he says no, he fancies himself Caesar.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    What are the temperament channels?

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    Just gonna drop this in as a potentially interesting tidbit,

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Temperaments]Five Temperaments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

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    Emotions and behavior I fit IJ, energy exchange less so, and recommended sports not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post

    IJ: The weakest type physically, Se-polr makes them the type most likely to have a lot of physical disorders sadly. Need to put a lot of effort not to get physically down. When they do strike, they also are not very coordinated or focused.

    I feel sorry for IJs. Weakest type physically and they're not even the strongest type magically either. They are so victimy and need so much protection.
    Not all the IJs are Se polr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    IP: Not prone to many physical disorders, but the 2nd weakest type. Stereotypical slow/sluggish strength with short surprising bursts of powerful gonzo porn energy to cripple/main an opponent or multiple opponents at once.

    EP: 2nd strongest type physically. Keeps head in the game, steady and powerful movements. Paces and focuses self, can be on the slow side though.

    EJ: The strongest type physically. Keeps up both speed and endurance.

    IJ: The weakest type physically, Se-polr makes them the type most likely to have a lot of physical disorders sadly. Need to put a lot of effort not to get physically down. When they do strike, they also are not very coordinated or focused.

    I feel sorry for IJs. Weakest type physically and they're not even the strongest type magically either. They are so victimy and need so much protection.
    I see this differently, I don't see one type as exclusively strong or weak, generally I think...

    Physical Power = Sensing
    Magical Power (which I don't believe in magic physically, but the closest thing to it in rl) = Intuition

    IJ: Slow steady measured. Most effective when prepared. Least effective off-guard.

    IP: Open relaxed focused. Most effective when entranced. Least effective when distracted/bothered.

    EJ: Productive collected energetic. Most effective when order/organized. Least effective when confused/frustrated.

    EP: Spontaneous impulsive adaptive. Most effective when on the spot and stimulated. Least effective when bored/drained.

    ---------------------------
    Now take sports....

    IJ = Trains and drills actions to perfection through routine and rigor. Learns to recognize situations in which tactics apply and utilizes pre-drilled tactics.

    Key to defeating IJ in competition -- Throw them off guard, don't fall into their "boxed" situations

    IP = Practices art of movements, develops grace in action. Alleviates mind from task and focuses on tactics.

    Key to defeating IP in competition -- Distract them, deceive them, annoy and pester them, try to shatter their focus

    EJ = Breaks actions down into a series of commands or instructions, learns to perform by following this procedure. Tactical thinking focused on rules of the games and constraints, tries to force situations to being on their home turf.

    Key to defeating EJ in competition -- Create disorder, shake things up, play by new rules, introduce unfamiliar situations.

    EP = "Mindless" spontaneous play, develops skill through trial and error. Tactics come from spontaneous ideas about how to deal with a current situation.

    Key to defeating EP in competition -- The change up, go from fast periods of quick intense excitement to slow periods of sloth like remission. This should cause the EP to become tired and disengaged and have their attention drift to something else.

    ---------------------------------------------------
    Now lets take magically, I'll use an RPG to talk about this since once again I don't actually believe in spells in rl, I believe in intuition as having an apparent "magical" like quality to it.

    IJ Spellcaster = prepares spells from a wide selection, used them conservatively and judiciously in critical situations, rations mana ahead of time to a preset number of spells, replenishes energy when close to empty
    IP Spellcaster = spells come naturally without preparation, but leaves them drained of mana, uses mana conservatively to the situation, rests/meditates to replenish
    EP Spellcaster = spells come naturally without preparation, uses mana wastefully, requires constant source of energy/stimulation to recharge mana
    EJ Spellcaster = prepares spells from a narrow selection, uses them frequently in required situations, recharges mana on a regular basis to remain active
    Last edited by male; 07-24-2010 at 03:54 AM.

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    Wow, every time I read a J description, I really don't want to be one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Haha. Remember when we thought we were ESTps?
    Yeah...surely if that means I don't have to "Breaks actions down into a series of commands or instructions, learns to perform by following this procedure." I might want to go back to it, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah...surely if that means I don't have to "Breaks actions down into a series of commands or instructions, learns to perform by following this procedure." I might want to go back to it, lol.
    I think of that as the most extreme case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Now lets take magically, I'll use an RPG to talk about this since once again I don't actually believe in spells in rl, I believe in intuition as having an apparent "magical" like quality to it.

    IJ Spellcaster = prepares spells from a wide selection, used them conservatively and judiciously in critical situations, rations mana ahead of time to a preset number of spells, replenishes energy when close to empty
    IP Spellcaster = spells come naturally without preparation, but leaves them drained of mana, uses mana conservatively to the situation, rests/meditates to replenish
    EP Spellcaster = spells come naturally without preparation, uses mana wastefully, requires constant source of energy/stimulation to recharge mana
    EJ Spellcaster = prepares spells from a narrow selection, uses them frequently in required situations, recharges mana on a regular basis to remain active
    I must confess that I actually have a very Ij RPG playing style.

    EDIT: Ej when powerleveling, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    I must confess that I actually have a very Ij RPG playing style.

    EDIT: Ej when powerleveling, of course.
    hmm interesting... I would elaborate on my personal experiences but I don't want to derail this topic =p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I'm like that non-stop when walking around. It's involuntary.
    Then I'm tentatively typing you as dominant.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Lol, yeah. If that were really true, I'd have jumped ship to a different type a long time ago.
    I'm sure

    Quote Originally Posted by great socionics observation
    But get an EJ and an EP together in a parking lot at night, and the EJ is more likelier to win I hate to say it but it's true.
    Is a much clearer viewpoint of the ENTj lol. You probably will accept that one on the grounds that its something you like to identify with, rather than on the grounds that it in anyways is a logical derivative of what socionics really tells us about the types.

    Your too real world, you don't know how to deal with figurative things. What I wrote was an extreme case that exemplified the attributes of the EJ temperment to a polarized extreme. You sure you aren't an ESTj or ESTp? You don't seem to be capable of competently working with abstractions or overlooking details to get at the big picture, you seem to nitpick details, which is more in line with the sensing dicotomy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Not all the IJs are Se polr.
    Yes, but most of them are except for the ones who are not so it isn't important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Who cares about the "logical derivatives" of what Socionics tells us about types.
    Obviously you don't but just because said person doesn't care about something doesn't mean it is useless. Like for example I don't really care what you think... and does that mean your mind is useless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Is a much clearer viewpoint of the ENTj lol. You probably will accept that one on the grounds that its something you like to identify with, rather than on the grounds that it in anyways is a logical derivative of what socionics really tells us about the types.
    I know you're not talking to me, but I'll reply nonetheless. I think the energy-expenditure description of the OP is spot on, I completely relate to how EJ is described. Yours seemed way too extreme; you can play in an on / off highly energetic fashion, yet still not necessarily be algorithmic in your behavior, the matters are not inextricably intertwined. An EJ-Ni can use its Ni to "invent" a pass, dribbling, shoot, movement; an EJ-Si can use its Si to precisely dribble a high number of players, shoot, etc.
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    So I decided to do a little breakdown of the extroverted descriptions on behalf of all the P-sub EJs out there. Parts I identify with are bold, italics are my comments.



    1. EJ – Extroverted rational (linear-vigorous temperament)

    Energy exchange. Clearly noticeably expends energy. Usually gives all that he has. Works swiftly and intensively. As long as he has strength he recklessly wastes it. He uses up all of his energy and then collapses with exhaustion. There is no middle ground: either maximum usage of energy (sometimes close to maximum) or total inactivity.

    Recommended sports. Team sports, long-distance racing, skiing, skating, bicycle riding, auto-sport, etc.

    Emotions and behavior. Straightforward, clear, rough/rigorous, no maneuvering. (Not so much, lol...I definitely maneuver. But I am very straightforward with those I trust.) Not likely to have inner doubts or hesitation. (bahahaha...funny, "inner doubts and fluctuations" is actually one of the first phrases in an Ni-EIE subtype description by Meged) They are sharp and implacable, and their actions are totally predictable. (I have been told that my actions/moods are ridiculously variable and unstable, but also generally within a predictable range) They often end up being the victims of the surroundings – non-dutiful other people, unstable situations and chaotic occurrences. (Hell yes.)


    2. EP – Extroverted irrational (flexible-laid back temperament)

    Energy exchange. Highly dependant on external information. They are calm when there is no need to use energy, but they switch on with full power when they need to be active. It’s very difficult for them to keep energy expansion at a high level for a longer period of time. In order to have flexible-laid back temperament, people have to be able to do many activities at the same time. (For example J.Caesar, who was able to read, write and talk at the same time)

    Recommended sports. Body building, wrestling, weightlifting and boxing, shot-putting, hammer throwing, etc.

    Emotions and behavior. The main trait of this temperament is the rapid changes in mood and status. This is how they differ from EJ. They can’t stand routine and predictability. (I think "routine/predictability" is a bit vague; I dislike a "boring" life, but I am also very much a creature of habit; I have to have high levels of energy expenditure and high stakes in my daily life, but I am also very methodical in terms of keeping certain factors stable in my life) Emotions seem as unexpected flashes in their generally relaxed mood. (This is what is clear to me; my emotions/moods are sort of like a piecewise function: they find a level, stay there for a while, then shift to another level, stay a while, shift to another level, etc) In a moment rage can turn into indifference. Note that their emotions depend on the external changes, not on the inner psychological reasons. (I think this is the key, for example EJs are often the kind of people who you can't "cheer up;" their emotions are sort of a storm that they have to weather on their own terms, whereas EPs' moods are very malleable, often even in their most drastic ups and downs) Their behavior is very hard to analyze because it doesn’t follow any linear rules. Instead their behavior resembles a broken curve, because they try to get everything done at the same time. (I relate to this but I think it's more about having the drastic gap between "all on or all off.") They give an impulse to one activity, continue doing the next activity, etc. This is the only way they can get things done and it enables them to achieve a lot more than any other method.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    IJ: Slow steady measured. Most effective when prepared. Least effective off-guard.

    IP: Open relaxed focused. Most effective when entranced. Least effective when distracted/bothered.

    EJ: Productive collected energetic. Most effective when order/organized. Least effective when confused/frustrated.

    EP: Spontaneous impulsive adaptive. Most effective when on the spot and stimulated. Least effective when bored/drained.

    ---------------------------
    Now take sports....

    IJ = Trains and drills actions to perfection through routine and rigor. Learns to recognize situations in which tactics apply and utilizes pre-drilled tactics.

    Key to defeating IJ in competition -- Throw them off guard, don't fall into their "boxed" situations

    IP = Practices art of movements, develops grace in action. Alleviates mind from task and focuses on tactics.

    Key to defeating IP in competition -- Distract them, deceive them, annoy and pester them, try to shatter their focus

    EJ = Breaks actions down into a series of commands or instructions, learns to perform by following this procedure. Tactical thinking focused on rules of the games and constraints, tries to force situations to being on their home turf.

    Key to defeating EJ in competition -- Create disorder, shake things up, play by new rules, introduce unfamiliar situations.

    EP = "Mindless" spontaneous play, develops skill through trial and error. Tactics come from spontaneous ideas about how to deal with a current situation.

    Key to defeating EP in competition -- The change up, go from fast periods of quick intense excitement to slow periods of sloth like remission. This should cause the EP to become tired and disengaged and have their attention drift to something else.
    I like these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Nah. But it probably makes you a dickwad.
    Yea it does, but it doesn't phase me too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I know you're not talking to me, but I'll reply nonetheless. I think the energy-expenditure description of the OP is spot on, I completely relate to how EJ is described. Yours seemed way too extreme; you can play in an on / off highly energetic fashion, yet still not necessarily be algorithmic in your behavior, the matters are not inextricably intertwined. An EJ-Ni can use its Ni to "invent" a pass, dribbling, shoot, movement; an EJ-Si can use its Si to precisely dribble a high number of players, shoot, etc.
    Gah... wait I'm confused here slightly....

    are you saying you can play in an on / off highly energetic fashion, yet still not necessarily be algorithmic in your behavior, the matters are not inextricably intertwined. An EJ-Ni can use its Ni to "invent" a pass, dribbling, shoot, movement; an EJ-Si can use its Si to precisely dribble a high number of players, shoot, etc is what you think about temparments or what I said???

    Also I really think this isn't something to be to critical about I suspect the difference lies in the fact I'm writing about internal mechanistic processes that occur at some theoretical level... you're talking about outward reality.... they are not the same perspective... and personally I feel like one isn't better than the other... they are just different... yet I always get criticized for this shit as if it were such a crime or faux pass to think in terms of abstract thought which is disconnected from immediate reality. I'm not attempting to claim anyone else is wrong here, I'm just defending my post, which seems to dig my hole deeper... I don't understand it.

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