View Poll Results: Charles Bukowski's type?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    0 0%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    0 0%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    0 0%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    4 100.00%
  • ILI (INTp)

    0 0%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

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Thread: Charles Bukowski

  1. #1
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    Default Charles Bukowski

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    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:06 AM.

  2. #2
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Se-ESFp works.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    His quotes all sounds super Se to me.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  4. #4
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    I buy ESFp. He'd definitely be Se sub. I like him a lot. I should read more of his work.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  5. #5
    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Interesting, I know an ILI who has him pretty near the top of his "dudes I would suck" list. I know he's dead, but the list is more hypothetical than anything else. I'm not sure whether this points my friend away from being ILI and as such makes SEE a less likely typing for Bukowski.
    IEE-Ne

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    ESFj?

  7. #7
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    ISTp

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    Why SEE and not SLE? Some of these quotes sound Fi-devaluing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    “There's nothing to mourn about death any more than there is to mourn about the growing of a flower. What is terrible is not death but the lives people live or don't live up until their death. They don't honor their own lives, they piss on their lives. They shit them away. Dumb fuckers. They concentrate too much on fucking, movies, money, family, fucking. Their minds are full of cotton. They swallow God without thinking, they swallow country without thinking. Soon they forget how to think, they let others think for them. Their brains are stuffed with cotton. They look ugly, they talk ugly, they walk ugly. Play them the great music of the centuries and they can't hear it. Most people's deaths are a sham. There's nothing left to die.”
    An SEE, in my experience, would not so readily dismiss the human aspect of death, and the grief that comes from the loss of the connection to someone you loved. (It's just the first sentence that I find hard to see coming from an SEE - I think they could easily see the need to mourn, while still expressing the same sentiments as the rest of the quote.)

    I know nothing of Bukowski, though. But you can pretty much feel the Se leaching from his pores in these quotes, lol. I've never read any of his work, but these pique my curiosity. Thanks for posting them.
    Some kind of Ixxp. Who knows.

  9. #9
    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactus View Post
    Why SEE and not SLE? Some of these quotes sound Fi-devaluing:



    An SEE, in my experience, would not so readily dismiss the human aspect of death, and the grief that comes from the loss of the connection to someone you loved. (It's just the first sentence that I find hard to see coming from an SEE - I think they could easily see the need to mourn, while still expressing the same sentiments as the rest of the quote.)

    I know nothing of Bukowski, though. But you can pretty much feel the Se leaching from his pores in these quotes, lol. I've never read any of his work, but these pique my curiosity. Thanks for posting them.
    I think even an SEE wouldn't mourn the death of an animal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cactus View Post
    But you can pretty much feel the Se leaching from his pores in these quotes, lol.
    I honestly don't think those quotes are a good representation of what Se is really like. I do find his mode of expression rather more Fe valuing than Fi though, just not sure that he's really Se. There's an over-the-top level of stereotypical Se in his character, that doesn't really fit into what Se is really about, and I lean toward ESFj for him. He reminds me of a few ESFjs I know. But I'm still unsure. He's interesting. I'll talk in depth about what I think of him more later.

  11. #11
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I know an LSI-Se who pretty much lives by Bukowski.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    No, you're just a faux-INTp with an PoLR. Naturally, you'd react negatively to and falsely label it .
    Trust me, I'm not Se-PoLR, and in no way would I confuse Se for Fe. You're just sounding stupid.

    btw the link in your signature doesn't work for some reason.

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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:05 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I honestly don't think those quotes are a good representation of what Se is really like. I do find his mode of expression rather more Fe valuing than Fi though, just not sure that he's really Se. There's an over-the-top level of stereotypical Se in his character, that doesn't really fit into what Se is really about, and I lean toward ESFj for him. He reminds me of a few ESFjs I know. But I'm still unsure. He's interesting. I'll talk in depth about what I think of him more later.
    Interesting. His quotes sound extremely Se to me. Whether they're Se-ego or Se-super-id, I don't know socionics well enough to say yet. But c'mon, that first quote about doing what it takes against all odds is directly about the unyielding application of volitional pressure to reach your goals. Although its expression sounds more Beta Fe to me. So I could also see EIE.

    ESFj doesn't make any sense to me. Any ESFj I know would be extremely turned off by the single-mindedness of his approach. The fifth quote from Ashton sounds pretty anti-Ne (people blindly grabbing at whatever -- this is how many ESFjs operate!).
    Some kind of Ixxp. Who knows.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactus View Post
    Interesting. His quotes sound extremely Se to me. Whether they're Se-ego or Se-super-id, I don't know socionics well enough to say yet. But c'mon, that first quote about doing what it takes against all odds is directly about the unyielding application of volitional pressure to reach your goals. Although its expression sounds more Beta Fe to me. So I could also see EIE.

    ESFj doesn't make any sense to me. Any ESFj I know would be extremely turned off by the single-mindedness of his approach. The fifth quote from Ashton sounds pretty anti-Ne (people blindly grabbing at whatever -- this is how many ESFjs operate!).
    I know. I agree with most of these associations and would usually look at Beta first, but there's something still about him that makes me think Se super id and Fe dominant. HA is often associated with the poetic and artistic form of values, finding out what is wrong in oneself and having the notion linger mostly subconsciously and bleed through your thoughts, and into your perception of others. He didn't come across like he was devaluing that in any way, but merely recognizing some of the problems associated with it and changing them. It honestly doesn't mean it's a devalued process in general, but just in the momentary recognition of it--like how you will hear all types speak of their HA. I wouldn't really associate general single-mindedness to type though (by how you were implying it that is). I'm coming back to this thread when I figure it out.
    Last edited by 717495; 08-02-2010 at 11:58 PM.

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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:05 AM.

  17. #17
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Not EIE. Their sentiments are conveyed and expressed quite a bit differently from this. They speak from a more abstracted POV because they're not ego.
    Not always.

    He does look EJ to me, actually. I could more easily see an EIE saying such things about solitude than an SEE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  18. #18
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah, EIE-Ni is my vote for now. Probably 7/8 axis, I'd lean 7w8 from the quotes and general picture I have of his life and personality; likely sx/sp.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:06 AM.

  20. #20
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I've never found quotes to be a reliable method of typing. Manner of speaking, gesticulations, speech rhythms: yes. But quotes, no. Not all EIEs speak like mystical seers like Goethe and Robert Anton Wilson.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  21. #21
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Also I think personal philosophies rarely equate to quadra values so much as they do personal experience.

    Don't you think he VIs more rational? Think David Carradine, Fidel Castro, etc.
    Last edited by Gilly; 08-03-2010 at 11:21 AM.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  22. #22
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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:06 AM.

  23. #23
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    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:06 AM.

  24. #24
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I said rational; I think Carradine is probably ESE, with EIE as a second possibility. I'm just looking at facial VI cues.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  25. #25

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    I am reminded of Paulo Coelho, the author. Hope someone can process why and that it helps with the elucidation of Bukowski's type...
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  26. #26
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Here's Coelho:







    Reminds me infinitely of Mark Messier, who is a probable LSE-Te. I'd guess the same for Coelho.

    So they (Coelho and Bukowski) are both likely Aristocratic EJ, anyways.

  27. #27
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I'm convinced Bukowski is Fe-EJ, probably Pi sub. Not sure which one though.

  28. #28
    Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    Se-ESFp works.
    Agreed

  29. #29
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    Se-ESFP sx/so E7 (not super-sure about this last part, could be 8w7 or 6w7)
    Last edited by Amber; 10-29-2014 at 09:15 PM.

  30. #30
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    I thought Sx/Sp.

    I read Factotum and most of what he talks about is flings, thick thighs, shitty jobs, filling out job applications, getting wasted, buying food,sleeping, taking shits, sneaking out of work to make money off horse races, etc. and it all feels really isolated.
    Last edited by suedehead; 11-01-2014 at 08:36 AM.

  31. #31
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    SEE-Se sx/sp
    I saw him typed as both 6w5 and 8w9 on enneagram forums, don't have a strong opinion either way.

  32. #32
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    If I compare him to a Gamma SF sx/sp artist like O Keeffe, in his writings I can find an obvious provocative intention. It does not look like he just lets his talent flow in a few forms that captivate him. His work does not really seem a bit monotonous to me. He wants to shift literary paradigms. He has a very disorganized lifestyle - sp last. He is interested in people on the fringes of society, he is not super self/absorbed in his literary intentions and I can see that as sx/so fascination with counter-culture, marginalized groups etc. There is a clear struggle to change the status quo in the cultural sphere.

    His personality is much more aggressive than I would expect a sx/sp to be. He vibes contra/flow all the way, check pics and interviews. This image is an important part of the persona he wants to project.




  33. #33
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    Last edited by suedehead; 11-15-2014 at 10:55 AM.

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