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Thread: Romance Styles for Rational Elements

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    Default Romance Styles for Rational Elements

    This is a continuation of the tangent that began in another thread:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post672129

    Id like to discuss what the connection between Te/Ti/Fe/Fi in a way that is similar to the romance styles (aggressor/caregiver/infantile/victim) of the irrational elements. The rational elements may or may not manifest in a way that is 'romantic.' I'm just using the romance styles as an example of what I'm looking for in rational elements. How do they compliment? and how do they conflict? What would you name them (for clarity)?

    Any thoughts or links are welcome.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    yeah whatever you want
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    this topic is tickling my interest....but it needs more juice.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    This may be interesting and/or useful:

    3. Forms of communicability.

    The first distribution of the sociotypes to the logicians and etikov, interesecting the second distribution to ekstravertov and introvertov, form four groups of communicability. Schematically this appears as follows: extra | PASSIONATE | D E L o in Y E | of ethics-|- logician | ARE SINCERE | COLD-BLOODED | intro-

    Let us first dismantle the contrasting, easily noticeable in the life forms of communicability - 3kstravertno- ethical and introvertno- logical.

    1. Ekstravertnye ethics, or PASSIONATE (PASSIONATE) . Their position in the contact - active search for feelings. They bear emotions to the surrounding people for their vital scenario characteristically that that they into the average earlier than all are married or leave marry. They are more frequently than the representatives of another the sociotypes, they dilute. Contact they understand as the exchange of emotions as unique "floating" in the turbulent flow of life. Designation of this group ER: in the block Ego of this four of types is present either the ethics of emotions E as the first function or the ethics of relations R as the second function.

    2. Introvertnye of logic, or COLD-BLOODED (COLDBLOODED) . Group Of communicability, Opposite To passionate. Their position in the nonformal contact - passive expectation of feelings. The communicability of these types flows over the kept balance diagrams and the standards. Their vital scenarios assume the latest marriages and the absence of repeated marriages. Their marriages, as a rule, are least successful. Contact understands as the exchange of the missing information of explanatory nature. This communicability lost nothing, if it were achieved only in the written form. This group we will designate LP: in the block Ego of these types is present either the structural logic L as the first function or business logic R as the second function. Among these two poles the communicability - bright and dim - are located its two average of form, which are plotted in the framework of the manufactured by society stereotypes of the behavior of the persons of opposite floor.

    3. Ekstravertnye of logic, or BUSINESS (Business-inclined) - the man stereotype of communicability. It is possible to name the active expectation of feelings it. Business sotsiotipy expect to meet their elect or elect among the file of the matters. They assign the active stand in life to the standard means of real man, but only not in the region of feelings. In the romantic literature the hero becomes acquainted with his future beloved, rescuing it from the misfortune. Contact these sotsiotipy understand as business collaboration. This group is designated PL: in their block Ego business logic R comes out as the first function, or the structural logic L - as the second function.

    4. Introvertnye ethics, or SINCERE (SINCERE) - the female stereotype of communicability. This position can be described as the passive search for feelings. Sincere sotsiotipy, being ethics confidently tyuey vybiryut the commanding them partner, but as introverty express their readiness for the ethical contacts, giving any indirect signals. Specifically, traditional morals requires such behavior from woman in the premarital period. This category of the sociotypes is most inclined to the "patriarchal" scenario with the stereotype distribution of the man and female responsibilities: man - breadwinner of family and her defender, woman - keeper of center and the educator of children. Contact is understood as the exchange of the signs of sincere attachment. Group has a designation RE: in the sociotypes of this group in the block Ego is present either the ethics of relations R as the first function or the ethics of emotions E as the second function.
    4. To whom it is better with whom.
    4. 1.

    With the analysis of between-group relations I will rest on the following, the the known to me according to the experience of sotsionicheskikh observations and consultations the vital tendencies:

    * ethics instinctively it is pulled to logic and vice versa; the psychological atmosphere in the purely logical pair is too dry and dull, and in the purely ethical - very agitated and oversaturated by experiences. Second on the attracting force is possible between two logicians, if one of them possesses the intensive emotionalism, or between two ethics, if one of them possesses the intensive rationality.
    * introvert instinctively is pulled to ekstravertu and vice versa, although the force of this attraction is not so strong as in the first case. Ekstraverty conquer, and introverty make it possible themselves to conquer. The peaceful co-existence of two ekstravertov is possible if and only if they will artificially delimit their spheres of activity. Almost always however in this pair appears power contest, and that lost feels itself pinched. The union of two introvertov can be neplokh when someone of them will take upon itself the role of subject active in the external peace. Without this special measure a similar pair is practically doomed to the self-insulation.

    4. 2.

    Conducting sotsionicheskuyu consultation on the harmonization of interpersonal relations in the pair, I recommend to consider the following averaged scenarios of intertipnoy dynamics.

    1. Business (PL) and sincere (RE). Successful combination of two it is specific communicability, that makes it possible to dostich' homeostasis - self-sustaining state of equilibrium both inside the system and in interaction with the environment. With the appearance of the internal differences between such partners of business as ekstravert actively it acts on sincere and that without the special resistance it yields to its influence. The equilibrium is restored because of the skill of sincere to smooth out sharp angles. When in this pair conflicts with those surrounding appear, then much more greatly survives sincere, since it ethics. However, because of its intro-version it simply presents problem business, which undertakes the appropriate measures. As a result of vapor it proves to be steady and against the destructive outside influence.

    2. Passionate (ER) and cold-blooded (LP). One additional successful combination it is specific to communicability, capable of ensuring natural self-adjustment in the pair. Scenario is turned as follows.

    With the appearance of internal differences passionate begins to act on cold-blooded from the positions of ekstravertnoy expansion for the purpose to change its behavior into its benefit. However, cold-blooded as little subjected to emotions type does not yield to these attempts. Its behavior in the course of time is nevertheless reconstructed simply as a result of the fact that its own estimation of situation changes. Passionate experiences from this satisfaction, yes even its flame by that time already cools, and conflict naturally goes out.

    In the case of the external aggression cold-blooded is inclined to ignore it and to be occupied its matter as if nothing were the matter. This restrained position very commands passionate, since it makes possible for it to independently manage the emergent problems of ethical nature. Inside those describe aboved it is specific interactions they hide themselves in the generalized form of 4 intertipnykh relations. The most successful combinations (if types are clean!) - THESE ARE DUAL RELATIONS ADMINISTRATOR - HUMANIST, FINDER - MEDIATOR, COORDINATOR - LYRIC POETRIES... Then follow poludual'nye, reviznye and conflicting. Even conflicting relations with the distance up to the safe distance possess stability. However, dual relations, on the contrary, ensure homeostasis only on the close communicative distance.
    4. 3.

    Two following forms of interrelations ensure psychological homeostasis only partially. Compatability between them takes average values. Destructive prove to be either external destructive actions or internal differences.

    3. Business (PL) and cold-blooded (LP). Events are turned usually on this scenario. Both in this pair are sufficiently indifferent to the ethical actions of partner. Business attempts to use cold-blooded for its purposes, but its attempt to nothing they do not lead. In the course of time, after a number of failures the tendency of business to change situation on its own taste fades, and partners move away themselves from each other. Interior equilibrium, thus, nevertheless is established.

    In the relations with those surrounding the pair proves to be insensitive. Each is occupied with its matter. However, if external actions are so strong that even they are capable of neglecting the low-activity ethical functions of partners, then quarrels apropos of reciprocal actions appear between them. To restore the disrupted equilibrium with the external peace is very difficult.

    4. Passionate (ER) and sincere (RE). The special features of rubbing to each other are here such. Each in the pair, since both ethics, feel well that the conflict emergent between them very negative affects the vital activity of other. However, only sincere will try to change its own behavior. Passionate will require changing the behavior of partner. Since sincere is inferior, then peace after a number of emotional is splash nevertheless it is restored.

    If in this pair problems with those surrounding appear, scenario immediately is dramatized. The tendency to transfer the aggravation of external relations to its own conflicts is outlined in them. Any consideration of external events under these conditions easily leads to the quarrel. The motive power of a similar scenario - surplus of emotionalism. Equilibrium in this pair is unstable against the internal differences.
    5. To whom it is worse with whom.

    1. Passionate (ER) and business (PL). This vital scenario, perhaps, is the most dynamic and is most contradictory. Since both ekstraverty, each attempts to change the behavior of partner. Both are active and do not desire to be adjusted slightly under other. Business finds to itself vent in an even larger quantity of matters, and passionate attempts to explain the aggravated relations. Conflict because of this even more greatly is fanned. In the relations with those surrounding both they attempt actively to act on external peace they begin to compete between themselves for the leadership. Business in these collisions playing more active role, because it considers that passionate by its emotional impetuosity harms common cause. Pair proves to be unsociable: in it it is very difficult to dostich' resistance both to the internal and to the external negative factors.

    2. Sincere (RE) and cold-blooded (LP). The vital scenario, which is pierced by internal contradictions and fluctuations. Because of the intro-version with the appearance of differences each attempts to, first of all, change itself. However, response is sincere more rapid and more noticeable. Therefore it begins to consider that it sacrifices itself for the peace in the pair. However, cold-blooded these peacemaking actions as and does not note. Impression is created, that it does not value the self-sacrifice of sincere. This generates tension in their interrelations. Change environment to the favorable for themselves side because of all of the same intro-version they cannot. Therefore external negative actions on this pair can easily destroy it. Moreover more unstable in this respect it proves to be sincere as having tendency toward the sensitive perception of external sympathy- antipathies. Consequently, this pair does not possess the effective mechanisms of the maintenance of homeostasis.

    3. Two Business (PL). Both attempt to act on partner for achieving of their own goals, but both are insensitive to such actions. Because of this in the pair brief, but intensive conflicts frequently burst. Both attempt to influence those surrounding, but they do not know how to properly agree on their actions. Each everything does for that, in order to to turn the course of events into its benefit. Compatability is satisfactory if and only if both speak as the solid front against external competitor.

    For joint enterprise better be suitable the sotszakaznye combinations of types. It is noticeable that the customer is pulled to the receiver, hoping to find in it contractor (executor) for its concepts [ 4 ].

    4. Two Passionate (ER). In this high(ly)-communicable pair not to avoid petty charges in the address of each other. Each will ekstravertno act on other, but no one will begin to be inferior. These partners it will seem that another is not understood it; therefore will be present the strong desire to vyasnyat' relation. However, the attempts to prove to partner their own rightness, as a rule, conclude with anything. Conflict because of this for long does not fade.

    In the contacts with environment both will compete in the emotional influence on it. It is easy to quarrel this pair, since emotional redundancy in it must find some discharging. In the case of settling mutual interests against the external encroachments the coordination of combined actions is hindered. Reaching equilibrium communication in the pair for the prolonged period is unreal.

    5. Two Sincere (RE). Each in this pair will be it attempts in every way possible to leave from the collisions. This stabilizes pair as whole. But if conflict between them nevertheless arises, then each will perceive its reason in the actions of other. This reduces the degree of reciprocity in the relations. Pair although compromise, touchy and neotkrovennaya.

    Each will attempt to solve independently external problems, without resorting to the aid of other, since rapidly it is convinced, that the boost to the impulse actions outside to nothing does not lead. Consequence of this position - mutual disappointment in the competitive ability of each other. However, the presence of common acceptable purpose can join "sincere" pair sufficiently strongly. This task must consist in the maintenance of the warm psychological atmosphere and prevailing attachments within the framework of the micro-association significant for them. For example, training children.

    6. Two Cold-blooded (LP). Very unsuccessful vital scenario for lack of activity and sincere heat. Each of the partners is insensitive to the efforts of other and otklikayetsya to its actions with the significant delay. Therefore pair although does not dispute, actually and it does not interact positively. One leaves at rest of another and it is contented, that it also they do not catch. The appearing conflict fades rapidly, since no one not "does pour oils into the fire".

    With a change in the external circumstances each of the members of pair independently tries to be adapted to the changes. Aid to each other okazyvetsya minimum. In the pair because of this the atmosphere of alienation is added. To increase compatability in it can the following joining purpose - development of diagrams, procedures, instructions, forecasts.
    SOURCE: Machine Translation of "Life Scenarios" by Gulenko

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this too. I haven't come to any hard conclusions about anything, but I like to think of rational elements as indicating an "intellectual style" as a complement to a romantic style.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    It's pretty cool

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    I remember it's been posted before, I don't remember by whom though. Perhaps labcoat? Let me take a look in the articles section...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    @SoapOfSapphire

    I think I've read that before.

    I do find it interesting that it's based on ExFx IxTx etc instead of elements. If you pair this with romance styles you can actually get a pretty good image of how a type is in a relationship.

    ESE - passionate caregiver
    LII - coldblooded infantile

    SLE - business aggressor
    IEI - sincere victim

    EIE - passionate victim
    LSI - coldblooded aggressor
    (this pair made me laugh for some reason lol)



    I think business needs clarification.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    coldblooded infantile lol
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    that is a great article soapofsapphire...too bad the language is still so tangled. essentially it pairs up logicians and ethicals in unexpected non, model A type of ways. from the limited amount i was able to understand it explains why the logic-ethics axis and the introvert-extravert axis is so important in romantic relationships. do we know who wrote it?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Ah I remember that. Good recollection.

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    I'm a business caregiver? Makes sense. I get permission before giving a back rub.

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    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    explains exactly how me and infpman get along. cool. he is an Fe subtype and i am a Ti subtype, which solidifies things further. we do clash on unconscious expectations vis a vis Ni vs Ne and Si vs Se. funny though, we always come back to logic and ethics to solve these problems. sometimes it takes a lot of talking and acceptance of the fact that we may not get all our needs met through the other person, healthy i suppose to know that up front.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    Would that mean a business aggressor gets permission before giving a spanking, and a business infantile gets a permission before starting to whine?
    This reminds me that I need to shoot whoever translated the names of the erotic attitudes into English.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    a business infantile gets a permission before starting to whine?
    lol.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    coldblooded infantile lol
    lol it's like a type of lizard!



    This is the way an amphibious Ti-INTj looks over its shoulder in search of some Sudoku that is sure to please it's bottom feeding nature. Notice the change in colors which is a shaky attempt to emulate Fe, but is really a cry used to attract it's dual.



    This is the coldblooded infantile caught in the jaws of their own logic. The Sudoku wasn't enough after all.



    This is a little coldblooded infantile crying out for it's dual. Notice the tongue and the pitious expression which is a hallmark of this type. See how it seems to be pleading "I can't take the paradoxes, dear. Feed me some of my favorite bugs through a straw while I relax in a lizard mudbath".



    This shows the same type lighted by the illumination of Fe fyre. Notice the barometer which signals the multifaced levels of expression upon which Fe operates to enliven the infantile lizard to his own destiny.



    Now, the coldblooded specimen is ready to embark upon a Si quest of its own!

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    1981slater had an excellent post on this subject, here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post660901

    And I expanded upon it here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post661349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    That's nonsense. In fact, if you think it's the "same idea" with what I wrote, I better delete my conclusion. I'll probably come with it later, in a more precise context.
    Oh, my apologies, I was responding to Azeroff's original post. I didn't mean to imply it was the same idea as what you wrote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    This reminds me that I need to shoot whoever translated the names of the erotic attitudes into English.
    It's lots of fun trying to explain "Victim" to non-Socionics people. Of course, if I had a better grip on it myself, that problem would probably go away. Also, at the lizards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I remember it's been posted before, I don't remember by whom though. Perhaps labcoat? Let me take a look in the articles section...
    no that spanish ILE guy.

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