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Thread: Enabler

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    Default Enabler

    What type would you consider an enabler to be? By enabler I mean a person who rallies people together and gets them to do something they would otherwise been unwilling, uninterested or perhaps unlikely to do. You could also consider them a leader of sorts I suppose, with less focus on specific team-building and more on a task-oriented or individual things.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Me, my type.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-22-2010 at 05:00 AM.

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    That's not at all what I meant, but thanks for contributing.
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    Enabler by definition means a person who feeds bad tendencies of another; an enabler will cover a gambler's debts so that gives the gambler the freedom to do it again, instead of giving them hard love. Don't you mean, are you an organizer or a hostess or a person who rallies others together?

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    Rather than fixating on a specific context of the word, try reading what I actually defined an enabler as and that the word "enabler" by construction is essentially anyone who helps or encourages someone to do something, not necessarily something negative.
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    Don't teachers do that naturally, as an example of a group who is likely to do that?

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    I know a couple of EIEs who would fit the enabler description as you stated.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Yeah EIE.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Stereotypically, yeah EIE. They're not called the mentor for nothing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    What type would you consider an enabler to be? By enabler I mean a person who rallies people together and gets them to do something they would otherwise been unwilling, uninterested or perhaps unlikely to do. You could also consider them a leader of sorts I suppose, with less focus on specific team-building and more on a task-oriented or individual things.
    Ethical Extroverts mostly. EIE, ESE, IEE... It would depend on the Enabler's area of focus and the way they motivate and merge people together.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Social types mostly NF's E or I types and SF's E or I types, but then, I've known ISTp's, given the mood they are in who are also very capable and willing to do this...so I would doubt that it's type related.

    Females of certain types are usually more willing then the male especially the ST's

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    I can tell you ESFjs are.
    INTp

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    Gut instinct would be ESEs. I'm sure EIES would be too, but my socionic compass of what an EIE looks like is...I can't think of any metaphors. I have no clue what an EIE is really. Mostly I just think EJ (go go go) and Fe (emotivational). Maybe LSE but that's mostly them just yelling at you to do something and sardonically calling you 'sally' or asking if you 'need a hug' if you don't. IDK.

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    ESE, EIE, SEE, IEE, SLE, SEI all very stereotypically play this role in different ways, and other types play it too in their own ways.

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    Yeah, I've been going through a "Maybe I'm EXFj" phase. The above was how a bunch of my friends described me. We were talking about our horror movie night and who certain people would be in a horror movie. They unanimously decided that I would be "the enabler". The person in the movie who gets people to do crazy things. They also qualified me as the leader as well because I tend to be the one who manages to make things happen. From my perspective I feel like I only appear this way because I hate to miss an opportunity for something I think I'll enjoy.

    My only genuine issue with this typing is that I really struggle to see myself as an EJ.

    Any thoughts?
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    I think you might be attaching meaning to something that just isn't there. I don't think you're EJ, you just perhaps might be confusing your social democracy and alpha-esque mediation with the ability to lead a whole bunch of people (which is yes, a huge offset of an alpha's ability to mediate others). Yeah, you do have that power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    What type would you consider an enabler to be? By enabler I mean a person who rallies people together and gets them to do something they would otherwise been unwilling, uninterested or perhaps unlikely to do. You could also consider them a leader of sorts I suppose, with less focus on specific team-building and more on a task-oriented or individual things.
    I wouldn't describe this as enabling - more like influential or persuasive. Certainly not dominant. You engage people into action, and you don't even need to exert energy in doing so. It's not purposeful and directed. Going by what I know about you in real life, I think it's more Ep energy as opposed to Ej energy. Perhaps, consider DCNH sub-types: ENTp-D.

    If you venture into MBTI, consider Beren's interactive styles - Get things going. MBTI ENTP fall into this category. Let me know if you want more info on this.

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    .....Mom?
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    LOL
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    .....Mom?
    LOL, yah, sure. Whatever you want to call me. Yes, I'm your mother.

    I suggest, keeping within the socionics theme, if you think you are other than ENTp, think about intertype relations. If pinocchio or anyone else is correct, think about the people in your life and how you interrelate. It's more than just pinpointing 'type' or energy. It has to fit as a whole package.

    I'm fairly confident you are ENTp, but, ENFp, ENFj or ENTj may be considered. You know yourself best, though.


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    Not sure what you're talking about with regards to memes and undercurrents (perhaps a fault of my memory, I don't know), however I clearly stated that I had been reconsidering my type rather than attributing this quality to ILE. You may want to take note that I purposely didn't refer to the enabler as myself in my OP because I didn't want to get biased responses from people saying that it was an ILE trait simply because it was associated with me.

    TBH, the responses I got were rather expected. Interestingly enough, THA types me as EIE last summer and I scoffed. Honestly, I have a hard time seeing myself as a Beta or an Ni ego for that matter. I would be more likely to consider ESE.

    Anyways, part of the overall reasoning for this reconsideration has been my interaction with this group of friends. I feel like my role as a social butterfly is particularly highlighted in this group. That said, it could be said that I take up this role for lack of visible leadership in our group when one of the other members (who is definitely my identical) is away. He and I sort of seem to share the job of keeping up the mood high, making everyone feel welcome and comfortable, etc. If there are parties to be planned, he and I seem to take up that torch because we mutually love crazy ideas and seeing them happen. Side note, he married a woman who I believe is SEI.

    And that's all I really have to say at the moment.

    Oh, also. Really don't think I'm my boyfriend's conflictor. That really makes no sense given the nature of our relationship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Yeah, I've been going through a "Maybe I'm EXFj" phase. The above was how a bunch of my friends described me. We were talking about our horror movie night and who certain people would be in a horror movie. They unanimously decided that I would be "the enabler". The person in the movie who gets people to do crazy things. They also qualified me as the leader as well because I tend to be the one who manages to make things happen. From my perspective I feel like I only appear this way because I hate to miss an opportunity for something I think I'll enjoy.

    My only genuine issue with this typing is that I really struggle to see myself as an EJ.

    Any thoughts?
    Of Course you are. YES. I told you this months ago....but Se PoLR. NO ONE LISTENS TO ME. I'M NOT GOING TO PUSH IT; IT ISN'T HEALTHY FOR ME. *LEAVING THIS THREAD*

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    Uh, Maritsa, the reason no one listens to you is that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're practically the socionics equivalent of a monkey banging on a typewriter.

    I know that's mean, and I'm not saying it to make you feel like shit, but you seriously should go back to the drawing board and come to grips with the fact that you can't just toss out conclusions without any ability to rationalize them and expect anyone to respect it. I mean, it wouldn't be bad if you expressed them with the immense amount of doubt suitable to just having a baseless opinion, but you throw them out there as if they have some justification when you've never given anything but facile declarations that are as incoherent as they are stubborn. I know I sound like an asshole right now, but I want you to approach complex, incomplete, perhaps incorrect philosophies with humility and skepticism. I want you to take a logic class. I want you to find your soul mate. I want you to MAKE SENSE!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Of Course you are. YES. I told you this months ago....but Se PoLR. NO ONE LISTENS TO ME. I'M NOT GOING TO PUSH IT; IT ISN'T HEALTHY FOR ME. *LEAVING THIS THREAD*
    You push all of the time. You are relentless, day after day, nudging and pushing your ideals, values and thoughts. Visualize, someone in a dense crowd wanting to get to the front - stepping on people's feet, elbowing to create space, pushing people out of the way, and swearing and calling people names. This is how it feels on this board with you and your posts.

    No one listens to you because your rationalizations are faulty, nine times out of ten. You are sometimes lucky and get it right, but, most times you are wrong. Except for a couple of members, no one trusts your judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio
    Most of her sincere issues ware uncharacteristic to ILE, including this one, or the one about undercurrent, or valuing memes, still she struggles for establishing them as the traits of this type in the community.
    To be honest, compared to the other ILEs on this board, your issues and behaviour can easily be interpreted as uncharacteristic. In fact, you are more like Maritsa, and annoying as shit.

    I'm a proponent of sub-type theory (DCNH), and I would say the difference between you and Vero can be explained via sub-type. I'll also suggest gender differences are at play as well. Regardless, the creation of this thread is proof she is at least examining the possibility she may be another type. Even if at the end of the exploration she decides she's not ILE, after months of you harassing her about it, you still lose. No one will really be any more impressed by your typing ability or your interepretations of socionics theory. Having been a target of your judgments and interpretations, I know personally, your reasoning is often faulty.

    My apologies to the other members of the board - Pinocchio, STFU!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Ethical Extroverts mostly. EIE, ESE, IEE... It would depend on the Enabler's area of focus and the way they motivate and merge people together.
    +1

    I would always be sort of a leader for my friends. I would be the one they followed in a different manner than one would follow a EIE probably. Im not normally a leader in work related matters although I could be and sometimes have to be, but its not something I enjoy too much.

    Social activities however are another matter, I am usually at the core of the group without trying or trying to lead, friends just flock around me and look to me to organise something or think of an idea they could follow. When I was younger, like 7 years or so ago every weekend I would organise something, a party, a trip or some activity and all of my friends would make sure to attend and they just assumed that it is natural for me to do that. They would algo get tea every time they would come to my house, which is totally unrelated to anything but I was happy to remember those days . I think right now it is similar, I am still the person who gets most of my friends in the same room for a few beers, few gallons of whisky and 5 hour talk about how cool we all are.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    Social activities however are another matter, I am usually at the core of the group without trying or trying to lead, friends just flock around me and look to me to organise something or think of an idea they could follow. When I was younger, like 7 years or so ago every weekend I would organise something, a party, a trip or some activity and all of my friends would make sure to attend and they just assumed that it is natural for me to do that. They would algo get tea every time they would come to my house, which is totally unrelated to anything but I was happy to remember those days . I think right now it is similar, I am still the person who gets most of my friends in the same room for a few beers, few gallons of whisky and 5 hour talk about how cool we all are.
    Yeah, this expresses where my friends get it. I seem to take up this role as well and seem to be a good social organizer. I've always done those things, even when I was in elementary school (I'm sure my mom will recall the many nights at her place, lol). Like you, I wouldn't say that it's a role I actively seek out, but that I fill the vacuum when I see it. It's funny you mention going out every weekend because earlier this summer I planned a party to plan parties for every weekend this summer. I noticed my friends had a lot of party ideas, but that we often lost track of them because they never had a solid date to plan for. So we assigned party ideas to each weekend and so far it's been a great success. Last weekend we had a duct tape party where everyone had to be wearing something made of duct tape. I had a yellow duct tape dress that looked like a duck

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio
    the issue is not that she's not an ILE, but that she's an ILI
    And from my perspective the issue is not that you think I'm not ILE, but that you think I'm ILI.

    Honestly, given what I've just discussed in this thread, can you explain to me how that is coherent with an ILI typing? How many ILIs can you think of that could be described as "social organizers," "motivators," "enablers," "leaders"? If I had to pinpoint two things that people would probably first notice about me it would be extreme social extrovert and highly expressive. People even joke about it. When doing introductions at work earlier this summer my boss asked me to start by joking with people that "the shyest member" should start. Everyone laughed because the idea of that is entirely preposterous: I'm loud, talkative, always laughing and smiling and joking around with people, I'm constantly making new friends, I go around playing fun pranks on people in the office, etc. Even though I don't think Introvert or Te ego necessitates being anti-social or being entirely unexpressive, I also don't think the extremes to which I exhibit the characteristics I described above are to be found in an ILI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    My apologises, it was "subtext", you didn't say that you relate to it, though. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...btext-ims.html. The idea was to tell about your interest in double meanings, connotations, different interpretations of the same thing, etc .
    (so IMO subtext, undercurrent, connotation = )

    "Meme" was used when you told me about possibly alternative interpretations on the remarks of someone, if you recall.
    These are definitely two instances where you're reading a too far into my motivations.

    You seem to have decided with no logical inference that I was interested more in the idea of subtext when it would be more logical to deduce that I (as someone who considers myself ILE) relate more to context (which I labelled as Ne). Instead you choose to associate me with subtext instead of context for reasons that aren't really obvious to me.

    Furthermore, in the case of the "meme," a meme is a pretty common theme on the internet. It is a stretch to think that I take a particular interest in memes or memetic culture simply because I point out that when someone says an outrageous thing that makes no sense, it's probably a meme.

    ---

    And sorry for misunderstanding your current issue, I was talking about the older ones. I'm a bit distrustful towards your objectivity and I hope you don't have another type on your mind because of some idealistic stuff .
    Have you considered that this attitude is in itself a bias and inhibits your objectivity? Why do you assume my typings are based on idealism? How do you determine what parts of my speech are representative of my ideal images of myself and which ones are truly me.

    For example, consider this scenario as a possibility:
    Many people strive to meet their parent's expectations. This in turn can influence their behaviour and make them prioritize things that would be otherwise unimportant to them. If this can manifest in Information Metabolism, then perhaps children might strive to imitate their parents functions in an effort to appear responsible, reasonable, etc.

    If this is possible, consider that my mother and I both type her as ILI. As an ILI she has specific ways of dealing with information. If these things influence me (as they likely do) then it is easy to confuse behaviours and attitudes that seep into me from approval-seeking behaviour with what comes more easily and naturally to me.

    Let's pretend for a moment that I am actually an ILE and my mother is actually and ILI. Based on the scenario I've described above that would mean that I naturally exhibit traits and behaviours of an ILE, but I sometimes confuse ideas of appropriate traits and behaviours with those of an ILI. If that's the case then ILI becomes my idealism and ILE becomes my genuine self.

    Given that possibility, how can you be so certain that what you label my lies are not my truths? That your truths are not actually the lies?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Honestly, given what I've just discussed in this thread, can you explain to me how that is coherent with an ILI typing? How many ILIs can you think of that could be described as "social organizers," "motivators," "enablers," "leaders"?
    "Social organizers" is a stretch, but in much the spirit of each type having its own role to play in this respect think that ILIs can sometimes, and to some people, be motivational to others in a typically quiet observer ("someone is noticing what I'm doing") way.

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    I don't think I would ever be described as a quiet observer, lol.
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    You may have noticed that I haven't commented on your behavior.

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    I didn't say you did, but I was clarifying since my comment on ILIs was made in reference to my behaviour as social organizer, motivator, enabler etc.
    ILE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    So you STFU because you didn't understand where I came from .
    No, I said you STFU, Ok man?! You know, you're kinda a cute and all being all principled, but, you're a pain in the ass, and I'd like to smack ya right side of the head sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio
    Another piece of evidence . With so numerous occasions - that I can't count - you refused to acknowledge the literal meaning of the posts - including yours - which came against you, by presenting the most unexpected, twisted and fancy interpretation. We obviously are on the opposite sides of perceiving information and you're characteristically an extreme Irrational - probably Ni-ILI. Pretty much you do the same thing as other radical (or with underdeveloped External functions) Ni types do, like thePirate, Aiss an cinq/Nik.

    Yes, probably cinq was right that gender differences might make the difference, but the tendency is to bias their personality towards their valued Internal functions, Feeling and Intuition, in any case not making an type "more ". It's hard for me to believe that an type can so strongly value information because of being a female, at least I have no evidence IRL and never read a socionist I learned from to state such thing.
    Your perception is off. I think you are projecting.
    Since you are open to the possibility that gender may play a role in differences, I'll submit as well, cultural differences may have an influence. Whatever the issue, be it environmental factors or the fact you've had some back childhood experience with someone and Vero reminds you of this person, something seriously is affecting your ability to accurately assess her type.

    By the way, do you know any female ILEs or ILIs? Have you spent any time in North America? If you do get a chance to travel this way, PM me. I'll invite you to spend time with me and Vero. I can guarantee you 100% that you'll come out of the experience with a different conclusion on type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper
    This is a fictional scenario. What I said is based on real and sensible observation. Otherwise I'd wonder myself what if people in the US have two types, two heads even?

    Yes, cultural differences affect how people come across, but it doesn't change their types. If we use the empirical evidence, Americans come across more extroverted, talkative and enterprising. How could that bias someone into perceiving an N American more Intuitive and Introverted? Maybe . The other way around is more likely, but for a MBTI student or a Socionics noob only
    Ironically, we are Canadians, not Americans. There are cultural similarities but big differences between the US and Canada. If you were here in North America to experience these differences, you’d understand. Yes, you can say there are two types, and more. In fact, North America comprises more than just Canada and US. Canada, generally as a nation, can be perceived as more introverted and intuitive or thinking, compared to the US. More Ip’ish in temperament, I would say - the quiet cousins. So, it’s not a stretch to think you may be picking up on this energy. Canadians are individuals of various types, but, generally have a base attitude/outlook that is a common denominator. Cultural influences are relevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper
    I know ILI and ILE females, yes, and the idea about N.A. is irrelevant. I'm not excluding the possibility of visiting you, I'm just afraid I'll feel uncomfortable with your kind of humour and proposed activities. I prefer to visit Maritsa's spooky place, or even more likely redbaron or Blaze - no offense but I really feel that at their places I'd have a great time and they would not require me to be "random", "crazy" or smart-ass like I feel you gals would . I can't push out of my head that plan of Vero on "shenanigans drinking nights" which sounds so tiresome and I can imagine people coming to me and saying "hey man, what's up with you? Is there a problem?" and trying to cheer me up or inviting me to drink or play different games, explaining me what great party we find ourself in. This happened to me previously among such people, where IMO the atmosphere was kinda Se/Ni.
    The idea is that I don't know "how to party" and I hate being expected to "have fun" or something, it just comes. Or it doesn't .
    This is how it would have transpired - I rarely like to socialize or have long conversations, and I would have probably afforded you maybe 2-3 hours max. I would have invited you to lunch or dinner at a quiet pub that serves european and canadian beer on tap, or a nice selection of wine. Like I often do with my daughter when we have the chance, we would have sat down and discussed socionics - analyzed from various perspectives, followed by discussions on any other issue or idea. Since I really don’t know you, and I don’t particularly care to spend more than a couple of hours with you, I would have reached a saturation point where I would have quickly ended the discussion and headed back home.

    This provides even more evidence that what you are picking up online is not reality. And, I've reached a saturation point, now, with this exchange with you. It will lead nowhere - just continuous bickering back and forth. It's obvious, you'll never 'get it'. You're trapped in some fucking mental maze of your own making, that you refuse to leave.
    Last edited by cinq; 07-24-2010 at 05:04 PM.

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