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Thread: My duality: ESTp & INFp (SLE-IEI)

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default My duality: ESTp & INFp (SLE-IEI)

    If you're an SLE, prepare to get doubts hurled at you on a weekly basis. Whether or not your IEI is the right person for you, whether it's really "as good as it should be" etc. IEIs are people who take TIME to adjust to the relationship, and in my opinion, they'll be at it forever. The best you can do is throw a shitload of confidence in their direction, make them realise that what you have really is amazing and worth working for, and remind them that life is either going to get better with you or worse for them when they find out you're the only one for them but they screwed it up because they thought there was something better.

    One of the most interesting things I've found is that it dual seeking functioning becomes almost two-way. On a basic level, I find myself in situations where I am giving superficially Ni advice to her, and where she is giving me superficially Se advice. For example, she wants things to get better or whatever, and I tell her in time they will. Genuinely, she gives me advice, when I want shit to get moving in our relationship (given it's long distance), and I want her to move up with me etc., which is related to Ni. Likewise, genuinely, I give her advice on Se matters when she needs a kick in the right direction (which she has already chosen for herself but lacks motivation).

    It's a really really yo-yo relationship in terms of our feelings for one another. We argue quite a bit (although I don't think we'd have it any other way). However, it's always intense, shit is always going on, and it's never ever boring. I have managed to converse with her on an almost daily basis for over a year online without getting bored. This is the kind of thing that gets extinguished very quickly with pretty much everyone I've ever IMed, but with her... every day is a new day for us. And in real life, although the initial conversation was a bit awkward, we're now ploughing our way towards a "normal" relationship. I will say this: it's unconventional. I've known nothing like it before. But that makes it more fun.

    More importantly, the same principles still apply. It's unstable - to a degree - although, as I mentioned before, most of this instability arises out of the IEI's doubt, self-doubt, and lack of confidence. They "don't know" while the SLE "absolutely knows". The SLE's optimism propels you both to glory. The IEI's talent meanwhile, I think, enters at a later stage of the game. When the SLE acts so much, hurts people so much (and it can be a major danger because they can end up hurting the IEI), once the IEI feels comfortable with the SLE they are able to make their moves before the IEI hurts. Our arguments fundamentally end with me being wrong. There's something I've missed, some principle I lack, which she has. I speak too soon, too impulsively. We fundamentally need to battle it out though, in order for me to see her viewpoint, and the more she proves it to me, the more I believe her when she says "just trust me on this, I'm right". I think this is a major principle of irrational Beta duality - learning to understand that the IEI knows. Otherwise they'd pretty much be useless, I mean they have fuck all else going for them, really. But that doesn't matter - because we as SLEs can do absolutely everything on our own, and that's where they can help. There are some things we would be better at doing, if only we listened to the IEI. Confidence only gets you so far; you need perspective to really propel you forward. IEIs know. SLEs think they know.

    There's a flipside to this though. Because of the IEI's lack of confidence in their own judgement, often they'll refrain from judgement altogether, and it'll come out that they "simply don't know". Sometimes they really do not know. And it's at this point when the SLE's confidence comes into play - of course the SLE doesn't know any better, but the sheer amount of optimism and faith compels the IEI; it magnetises the IEI towards the SLE. There's nothing more an IEI likes than SLE confidence. As an SLE, you will be well aware that your playful cockiness is pure entertainment for the IEI; he or she will find it immensely endearing, and - yes - "cute". Obviously you also find the IEI cute; probably because stereotypically they are. But often the misguided confidence of the SLE paradoxically fills the IEI with a sense of their own confidence, so that they become more assertive: "I know I'm right on this". The more confidence the SLE fuels the IEI, the more powerful the relationship can become. A positive feedback loop is formed, and it enables the couple to achieve what they want to achieve.

    To summarise, given that one of my weaknesses is in relationships, I can say that having a relationship with my dual has been one of the best things that ever happened to me - if not the best. There's no magic to duality, yes, but there is qualia - there's the experience of it, and the experience of it is absolutely unbeatable. You'll feel fulfilled, you'll feel like you're doing good for someone else, you'll be satisfied and entertained and most importantly, you will have great sex. I must stress the importance of dual sex. Herzy is right to recommend it, it is incredible, and you will never experience anything better. If you are a virgin and there is a dual in sight for you, lucky you, you are in for a wonderful time. If not, don't worry, you can compare it with other sexual experiences and realise that it is truly amazing. If one thing is not blown out of proportion in descriptions of duality, it is the sex. The chemistry is phenomenal, and you will never get anything like that with anyone else. Obviously sex with someone you love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> casual/one night stand, but there's more to it. You appreciate the same style, and things like that. Never underestimate the power of raw, animal attraction in an irrational Beta pairing.

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    Ezra is in love.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    bravo ezra

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    Hmmm. Yeah I think ESTp girls are gona be good at sex. Just gota find one.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat360 View Post
    Hmmm. Yeah I think ESTp girls are gona be good at sex. Just gota find one.
    Start with ESTP on this forum. I'm sure you guys aren't too far from one another.

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    Wow, this was great. Thanks for sharing Ezra.

    so... did you meet this IEI here? lol
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    sounds uncomfortable.

    But that's good insight into things. I think it explains well how people look for someone who appears to have confidence in their dual seeking function, and yes, it's not really about "being more skilled" or "stronger" in it, but just that you have a greater confidence about using or applying such stuffs.

    Good bit of sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I think this is a major principle of irrational Beta duality - learning to understand that the IEI knows. Otherwise they'd pretty much be useless, I mean they have fuck all else going for them, really. But that doesn't matter - because we as SLEs can do absolutely everything on our own, and that's where they can help. There are some things we would be better at doing, if only we listened to the IEI. Confidence only gets you so far; you need perspective to really propel you forward. IEIs know. SLEs think they know.

    There's a flipside to this though. Because of the IEI's lack of confidence in their own judgement, often they'll refrain from judgement altogether, and it'll come out that they "simply don't know". Sometimes they really do not know. And it's at this point when the SLE's confidence comes into play - of course the SLE doesn't know any better, but the sheer amount of optimism and faith compels the IEI; it magnetises the IEI towards the SLE. There's nothing more an IEI likes than SLE confidence. As an SLE, you will be well aware that your playful cockiness is pure entertainment for the IEI; he or she will find it immensely endearing, and - yes - "cute". Obviously you also find the IEI cute; probably because stereotypically they are. But often the misguided confidence of the SLE paradoxically fills the IEI with a sense of their own confidence, so that they become more assertive: "I know I'm right on this". The more confidence the SLE fuels the IEI, the more powerful the relationship can become. A positive feedback loop is formed, and it enables the couple to achieve what they want to achieve.
    All of this is so good, esp. the bolded. I've seen this happen with my IEI brother and SLE sister-in-law.

    To summarise, given that one of my weaknesses is in relationships, I can say that having a relationship with my dual has been one of the best things that ever happened to me - if not the best. There's no magic to duality, yes, but there is qualia - there's the experience of it, and the experience of it is absolutely unbeatable. You'll feel fulfilled, you'll feel like you're doing good for someone else, you'll be satisfied and entertained and most importantly, you will have great sex. I must stress the importance of dual sex. Herzy is right to recommend it, it is incredible, and you will never experience anything better. If you are a virgin and there is a dual in sight for you, lucky you, you are in for a wonderful time. If not, don't worry, you can compare it with other sexual experiences and realise that it is truly amazing. If one thing is not blown out of proportion in descriptions of duality, it is the sex. The chemistry is phenomenal, and you will never get anything like that with anyone else. Obviously sex with someone you love >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> casual/one night stand, but there's more to it. You appreciate the same style, and things like that. Never underestimate the power of raw, animal attraction in an irrational Beta pairing.
    shush.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    sounds uncomfortable.
    The Merry irrational dyads seem to be characterised by turbulence in romantic relationships. I remember Rick on Irrationality: "emotional and physical closeness increases or decreases non-linearlily, in waves".

    +1 for the Duality physical chemistry, too. Listen to the SLE rave reviews, people. Not that I'm qualified to comment on the sex part, though.

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    Apparently SLEs are insane.

    Also, Ezra, it would enhance the quality of your relationship to post naked pics of your gf in this topic.

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    This is why I'm glad my dual has PoLR, not Base.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    This is why I'm glad my dual has PoLR, not Base.
    your dual has stupid as base

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    your dual has stupid as base
    LAWLAWLAWL

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    Pezzy, nudes please.

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    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 03:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    So who's the lucky dude, Ezra?
    haha

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    so... did you meet this IEI here? lol
    Let's say that most IEIs on this forum are yanks, and that she is not a yank.

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Also, Ezra, it would enhance the quality of your relationship to post naked pics of your gf in this topic.
    Trade... for naked pics of every girl you've ever slept with.

    Also, haven't you heard? Ashton is secretly McNew. I'd be thrown off immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I don't care what you find annoying anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Other people don't matter.
    Hmm, doesn't sound very Fi does it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It has to be consistant with original socionics.
    Yes it does. So re-read Augusta's description of Te, use it to construct an argument, and then maybe people will take into account what you're saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    So who's the lucky dude, Ezra?
    Come on, don't post to make this look like it's not you! I thought we had a deal...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Come on, don't post to make this look like it's not you! I thought we had a deal...
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Let's say that most IEIs on this forum are yanks, and that she is not a yank.



    Trade... for naked pics of every girl you've ever slept with.

    Also, haven't you heard? Ashton is secretly McNew. I'd be thrown off immediately.





    Hmm, doesn't sound very Fi does it?



    Yes it does. So re-read Augusta's description of Te, use it to construct an argument, and then maybe people will take into account what you're saying.



    Come on, don't post to make this look like it's not you! I thought we had a deal...
    Ezra, Fi is not about people, it's about relationship. True, without people, there can not be relationships, but ulimately, without relationships, our social structures are insignificant. What I said was consistant with Ti in the role function, needing consistancy, and stability to judge in comming information for reliability.

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    Ezra, you're still sounding gay. Has this girl got you whipped or something?

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    BACK ON TRACK:

    Ezra, I find your observations to be right on for the most part. Though I am interested in one thing: your assertion that the SLE is the optimist. I dunno about that, especially as concerns relationships. Aren't SLEs usually distrusting? I thought it was usually the job of the IEI to reassure in subtle ways.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    BACK ON TRACK:

    Ezra, I find your observations to be right on for the most part. Though I am interested in one thing: your assertion that the SLE is the optimist. I dunno about that, especially as concerns relationships. Aren't SLEs usually distrusting? I thought it was usually the job of the IEI to reassure in subtle ways.
    ---------------

    They are, but when it concerns romance, trust isn't so much a necessity in the beginning as long as the person doesn't prove to be distrustful. Meaning, they take relationships in this sense much less seriously than IEI, and engage in them for other reasons. While an IEI wants a relationship for intimacy, where trust would need to be a necessity starting out, SLE engage in relationships moreso for the fun and excitement.

    Disclaimer: This specifically applies to the beginning stages of romance, as time goes on and with the right person an SLE can get very serious and committed, looking moreso for intimacy, contrary to popular stereotypes.

    -------------------------

    Sidenote: Also, from an SLEs viewpoint, what could an IEI possibly do to them? Once they see your Te PoLR in action, any fears of theirs should be rapidly quelled. Couple that with weak Se and strong Fi and whats not to trust?

    I don't know if I would use the word optimist, but I know what Ezra was getting at - SLE are optimistic in the sense of getting the IEI to relax about things and not take things so seriously. IEIs are optimistic when it comes to other people, but not so much towards themselves so they tend to skew things towards the negative in an unrealistic fashion. So the SLE grounds them back into reality by assuring them that many of their paranoia's are just in their heads. The SLE's solid root in reality feels like optimism and feels inspiring because compared to IEIs dispositions, its much more uplifting.

    This is all in a short term sense, stretching the timeline, the IEI becomes a much bigger source of optimism and comfort once the SLE lets their guard down. SLE are often untrusting and even and can skew things to the negative side, emotional issues can pile up, and this is where the IEI is needed to comfort and soothe them and let them know things are okay.

    I think they can both be sources of 'optimism' for each other, but in its traditional sense of the word the IEI does provide the 'optimism' the hope in a brighter future, people being better than they seem, etc. The SLE providing the realism and groundedness which feels inspiring.

    I guess to shorten it up I would say:

    SLE assure IEI that things aren't as bad as they seem
    IEI assure the SLE that things are better than they seem.

    Those are my observations at least, hopefully it correlates with Ezras
    Last edited by thePirate; 07-17-2010 at 11:05 PM.

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    that was really good, pirate! very helpful. thanks.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Ezra, you're still sounding gay. Has this girl got you whipped or something?
    mercutio, have you found a girl yet? One you care about? I was like you ("love is gay" etc. until I met her.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Ezra, I find your observations to be right on for the most part. Though I am interested in one thing: your assertion that the SLE is the optimist. I dunno about that, especially as concerns relationships. Aren't SLEs usually distrusting? I thought it was usually the job of the IEI to reassure in subtle ways.
    Basically, I like what thePirate says. Although I dunno, I often feel like things are not as simple as socionics makes them out to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Basically, I like what thePirate says. Although I dunno, I often feel like things are not as simple as socionics makes them out to be.
    agreed.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Everyone knows that I am Ezra's true dual. This IEI impostor must be vanquished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Our arguments fundamentally end with me being wrong. There's something I've missed, some principle I lack, which she has. I speak too soon, too impulsively. We fundamentally need to battle it out though, in order for me to see her viewpoint, and the more she proves it to me, the more I believe her when she says "just trust me on this, I'm right".
    I do this with every SLE I know. If she's anything like me, she probably comes out of it with a slightly altered perspective anyway. I notice that I usually shift my argument slightly over the course of the discussion. Actually with the SLE I know best, I generally come out of an argument feeling simultaneously totally wrong and totally right and largely reoriented. And I find that we generally actually agree, and it's really just a matter of coming to terminology that satisfies us both.

    I think this is a major principle of irrational Beta duality - learning to understand that the IEI knows. Otherwise they'd pretty much be useless, I mean they have fuck all else going for them, really.
    lol. I'd argue if it wasn't true. But yeah, I think IEIs do spend a lot of time proving their value to the SLE by being right about things over and over again. I think the IEIs capacity to be unexpectedly useful is important to the duality working. I don't know if I ever posted about this, but I find that normally SLEs befriend me because they see me do something or other really well, and then I think the combination of seeming weakness and actual competence is intriguing to them. I think it often turns out to be a relationship of great mutual respect based on each others' competency (btw, that's a generally Se/Ni victim/aggressor thing, and it's one more reason to think that Pride and Prejudice has a gamma, rather than alpha, mentality. But anyway). I have that kind of relationship with a female SLE that I go to school with, but she's into my other SLE guy friend. Woe is me. lol.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    And I find that we generally actually agree, and it's really just a matter of coming to terminology that satisfies us both.

    . . .

    But yeah, I think IEIs do spend a lot of time proving their value to the SLE by being right about things over and over again. I think the IEIs capacity to be unexpectedly useful is important to the duality working.
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Let's say that most IEIs on this forum are yanks, and that she is not a yank.

    .
    lol I know who she is.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    lol I know who she is.
    It isn't all that terribly abstruse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    lol I know who she is.
    so do I.

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    It's Expat. I AM INCORRECT AND NEED TO BE SHOT. HELP REHABILITATE ME. ;adhgljADHSGJLasdgADGsdg
    Last edited by Ezra; 07-19-2010 at 05:40 PM.

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    Even I've guessed who it is and I'm rarely on here anymore.

    Sounds like you guys have something special. Happy for you.

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    ah, it's nice to see that more people have found love in real life meeting through this place.... congratulations Ezra!

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    SLE-IEI duality sounds creepy.

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    You sound creepy.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    You sound creepy.
    Yay, Starfall finally started hitting on me!!!

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    How can I get my dog to loosen up without restraining her with the weight of my entire body, Ezra?

  39. #39
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    It's Expat. I AM INCORRECT AND NEED TO BE SHOT. HELP REHABILITATE ME. ;adhgljADHSGJLasdgADGsdg
    Hmmm, discojoe, I think you are right about this. I know a few good places that treat crazy people like you well.

    EXPAT IS DEAD TO ME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    You sound creepy.
    Damn, you stole my line.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrunningrabbit View Post
    How can I get my dog to loosen up without restraining her with the weight of my entire body, Ezra?
    Is "my dog" a petname for your girl? Or literally a dog?

  40. #40
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    You have the nerve and we have the heart. I get it.

    Now shut up and suck my cock.

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