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Thread: In which ways is Duality better than Activity?

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    Question In which ways is Duality better than Activity?

    I know activity relations are supposed to be up there on the list of satisfactory relationships (maybe 2nd or 3rd right?). What I am wondering is, do you think it is worth pursuing while already knowing that duality is superior?

    Or to make it more personal: you met someone who is an activation relation and you hit it off really quickly, and you have A LOT in common, including long-term goals. This other person also has a lot of good qualities that sound good in a long term relationship- smart, stable, loving, mature and responsible, etc. This person is clear that they are interested in marriage in the future and doesn't want to wait around. But having experienced duality you are aware there is a certain something lacking in the activity relation, and that it will never be on the same scale as duality. Would you still try to foster a romantic relationship anyway? Or tell them you don't think it will worth out in the long run?

    I know activity relations are good for friendships, I've had a few of them as best friends. I'm just not sure of them on the romantic front. Does anyone have successful stories of activation? Are some of you dead set on only dating your dual?

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    A duality is always better than AN activity. A duality doesn't have to be better than THE activity.

    Now you know.

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    I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

    The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

    The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.
    i am hoping you are right.

    activity is a good one....but the difference in rationality is what starts to erode the relation on too close a distance. but overall, one of the best relations!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    My experience with these has been relatively bad; the difference in temperament makes the interaction lack in smoothness. There isn't a strong incentive to keep the conversation going. I like ISFps a lot but the difference in compatibility with me between them and ESFjs is not just some marginalized detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jragonfly View Post
    Are some of you dead set on only dating your dual?
    Yes. After having become intimately involved with one, definitely yes. Nothing else will really cut the mustard.

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    If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

    I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner. Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality. I also like my activity partners because we are both introverts. I have been with a dual before and one of my friends is my dual too and yeah it's comfortable, you can be with them all the time and not get bored and miss them while they're gone etc etc. But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where and their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.

    I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?
    Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality.

    I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.

    Oh, I guess that is why dual with 3rd function matching 7th function, they are more co-dependent, hence the relationship is easier.

    But that 3rd function to your 8th function, to me that cause a lot of problem. I mean we all need our 7th function privately where we use it a lot. and activities gives too much polr "hits" because activity partner's polr is their 7th function.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    and activities gives too much polr "hits" because activity partner's polr is their 7th function.
    Your dual would be using more of your 4th function than your activator. So you would get more polr hits from your dual than your activator, in my experience anyway. Your activator at least keeps an eye on your 3rd function unlike your dual which ignores that function and I would think we are more concerned with our 3rd than our 4th. I would get way more Fi assurance from an IEI than an EIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

    I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner.
    "The EIE" or "EIEs I've encountered"?

    Duals are still people. Some people will manifest things you just plain don't like, or create points of incompatibility despite how forgiving you want to be, or how laissez-faire your approach to "disappointments" is. Also, descriptions of types are very bad at describing people. They're best as guidelines for spotting others, not exhaustive and precise details of traits and foibles of a given type.

    But to answer your question, here's another one: if you have neither an activity partner nor a dual, why not pursue a dual?

    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality.
    Nono, Role/Ignoring complementarity is beautiful. Your Dual encourages you to relax and be yourself and not worry about all the social crap/personal anxieties stacked on top of your Role function.

    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where
    Do they respond badly to you reacting to the drama? All relationships experience friction, increasingly so in direct proportion to intimacy. Duals sort it out, even despite momentary (or even more protracted periods!) ill sentiments.

    Also, don't you Betas like intensity in your relationships? Maybe your EIE used to just start shit to get a reaction out of you?

    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.
    Sounds more like instinct clash than anything Socionics can account for. (Hint: I already know to avoid so-firsts. I'd die with their stupid need to be off socialising or whatever it is that they do with all those random people.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    Your dual would be using more of your 4th function than your activator. So you would get more polr hits from your dual than your activator, in my experience anyway. Your activator at least keeps an eye on your 3rd function unlike your dual which ignores that function and I would think we are more concerned with our 3rd than our 4th. I would get way more Fi assurance from an IEI than an EIE.
    Nah, I don't think so, Activity partners see weakness in others that they can improve on, always giving each other advice and at the same time hurting each others weak point. In healthy duality relationship, these criticism is made very lightly, in a way more accepting than if activity ever give advice on each others weak point.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Socionics.com doesn't have good rep here, but I am posting this anyway because it can't be more true.

    The other problem with these relations is that information between Activity partners always needs some adjustments. One partner may think of it as too foggy and not concrete enough, whereas for the other partner it is too unrefined. Collaboration is also difficult, because partners cannot predict each others behaviour and actions in what seem to be ordinary situations. Because of this, partners cannot rely or count on each other in full. Most of the problems that arise during Activity relationships are because one partner is always Perceiving and the other is always Judging, meaning that they live in different life rhythms.
    Although overall interaction between partners is nice and easy, when it comes to fulfilling everyday duties and matters together, partners usually meet with many problems. Instead of solving the problems, Activity partners tend to give advice to each other on how to solve these problems, often affecting each others weak points. The advice of an Activity partner is always useful as it can strengthen your weakness, but not so much that it will ever become your strength.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    "The EIE" or "EIEs I've encountered"?

    Duals are still people. Some people will manifest things you just plain don't like, or create points of incompatibility despite how forgiving you want to be, or how laissez-faire your approach to "disappointments" is. Also, descriptions of types are very bad at describing people. They're best as guidelines for spotting others, not exhaustive and precise details of traits and foibles of a given type.
    Yes, exactly which is why I'm saying that duality is not everything and is why I'm encouraging to not just aim for duality when they have other chances at potentially good relationships.

    Following this theory of course it would make sense that duals are better for one another on paper. I'm saying reality can be different, I have got on famously with one female EIE and SO SO incredibly badly with one EIE.

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    Ok, let's say I have two cakes. One is super-tasty delicious and looks even better than it tastes. The other is a pretty ok cake. Cake #1 takes a while to procure the ingredients and bake, and it can wind up not tasting super-fantastic crazy awesome because the cooking process is complex. The other is basically straightforward. So let's actually say cake #2 is like self-bake bread. Nourishing but nothing spectacularly delicious.

    You're advocating to go with the bread over the cake, because the cake can go wrong and takes a while, even despite the fact that it is entirely superior in every conceivable way.

    EDIT

    And so I say you're a lunatic. Then again, I should theoretically have an easy time of finding my dual, since I have a) a dating site that's pretty much advertised as being for geeky Alphas b) experience with a dual c) many platonic dual friendships giving me a wide sample of what my duals look like and d) I'll be doing a degree in holy shit NT territory. Just gotta avoid the Gamma landmines, which might be a bit complicated.

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    Duals have to give up control of certain areas where in the past they worked hard to control or really let wild, lose and out of control, in the absence of their duality; when that happends duality is a better match then activity. Activity relations listen and allow the other person to do what they want. Dual relations have a bit of problems letting their dual lead in appropriate situations. I've noticed new dual pairing compete, fight, argue, and look like they can easily end in their first few stages.

    For my duals they have to start following my ideals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I already know to avoid so-firsts. I'd die with their stupid need to be off socialising or whatever it is that they do with all those random people.)
    quotable!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Duals have to give up control of certain areas where in the past they worked hard to control or really let wild, lose and out of control, in the absence of their duality; when that happens duality is a better match then activity. Activity relations listen and allow the other person to do what they want. Dual relations have a bit of problems letting their dual lead in appropriate situations. I've noticed new dual pairing compete, fight, argue, and look like they can easily end in their first few stages..
    yeah this is especially apparent when the persons involved aren't dualized. i.e. didn't grow up with a dual family member or best friend. I think it probably takes time to let go of those areas that you're so used to controlling.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    A duality is always better than AN activity. A duality doesn't have to be better than THE activity.

    Now you know.
    Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    I wouldn't reject someone on the basis of some unproven personality hypothesis. However, I might reject someone on the basis of relationship dissatisfaction that may have been predicted by the hypothesis.

    The limited number of surveys on types of married couples indicate that duality, while representing more than 1/16 of the intertype relationships of couples, only accounts for 30%-50% of marriages. Surely there's something positive and fulfilling that can be found in non-duality relations.
    Yea I wouldn't bank everything on this theory either. The thing is I've noticed the hypothesis has already predicted quite a few of my own relationships, so I do consider it at least somewhat valid. You're right, there must be positive things about non-dual relations or else people wouldn't start them! But on the other hand, isn't the divorce rate around 45-50%? I can't help wondering if some of that can be explained with intertype relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    i am hoping you are right.

    activity is a good one....but the difference in rationality is what starts to erode the relation on too close a distance. but overall, one of the best relations!
    I have noticed this is true in my personal experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    My experience with these has been relatively bad; the difference in temperament makes the interaction lack in smoothness. There isn't a strong incentive to keep the conversation going. I like ISFps a lot but the difference in compatibility with me between them and ESFjs is not just some marginalized detail.
    Thanks I'll keep that in mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jragonfly View Post
    You're right, there must be positive things about non-dual relations or else people wouldn't start them!
    Attraction, my friend. It's part of every human's biological programming.

    You know, much like death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    If you don't have a dual, why wouldn't you purse an activity partner?

    I find myself criticising my dual more than my activity partner....and I find some traits of the EIE that I'd prefer to not have in a partner. Activity partners also have your 3rd function as their 8th so you don't get that frustration as you do in duality. I also like my activity partners because we are both introverts. I have been with a dual before and one of my friends is my dual too and yeah it's comfortable, you can be with them all the time and not get bored and miss them while they're gone etc etc. But maybe it's because they are EIEs, but I just can't tolerate their drama all the time that seems to come from absolutely no where and their need to be loved by everyone which means you are less of a priority and that becomes an issue in relationships....for me anyways.

    I guess activity feels more like you are separate entities who enjoy one another unlike duals who are more co-dependant.
    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    Yes, exactly which is why I'm saying that duality is not everything and is why I'm encouraging to not just aim for duality when they have other chances at potentially good relationships.

    Following this theory of course it would make sense that duals are better for one another on paper. I'm saying reality can be different, I have got on famously with one female EIE and SO SO incredibly badly with one EIE.
    Well I appreciate your positive thinking!

    In my case, I have had lots of experience with activity, I seem to attract them or be drawn to them somehow. My mother is my activity, maybe that has something to do with it seeing as I grew up "activated" instead of "dualized". But since I lacked experience with duals most of my life I never missed it...until recently when I met a dual and it was fabulous. Now I've started to have doubts about everything else but.

    I see you're point though, there are other factors that come into play in real life. I met someone once who may have been my dual, but due to differences in age, culture, and intelligence there was no way it ever would have worked out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    Ok, let's say I have two cakes. One is super-tasty delicious and looks even better than it tastes. The other is a pretty ok cake. Cake #1 takes a while to procure the ingredients and bake, and it can wind up not tasting super-fantastic crazy awesome because the cooking process is complex. The other is basically straightforward. So let's actually say cake #2 is like self-bake bread. Nourishing but nothing spectacularly delicious.

    You're advocating to go with the bread over the cake, because the cake can go wrong and takes a while, even despite the fact that it is entirely superior in every conceivable way.

    EDIT

    And so I say you're a lunatic. Then again, I should theoretically have an easy time of finding my dual, since I have a) a dating site that's pretty much advertised as being for geeky Alphas b) experience with a dual c) many platonic dual friendships giving me a wide sample of what my duals look like and d) I'll be doing a degree in holy shit NT territory. Just gotta avoid the Gamma landmines, which might be a bit complicated.
    Ok. But if the cake "can wind up not tasting super-fantastic crazy awesome because the cooking process is complex," then it wouldn't necessarily be "entirely superior in every conceivable way"?

    Point taken though. I don't like the idea of settling for silver when I could have gotten gold. At least that's how I look at it. But I know some people that would settle, and be ok with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    Attraction, my friend. It's part of every human's biological programming.

    You know, much like death.
    You mean physical? I don't know if that would account for everything, there are some people that are definitely attractive but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    Nah, I don't think so, Activity partners see weakness in others that they can improve on, always giving each other advice and at the same time hurting each others weak point. In healthy duality relationship, these criticism is made very lightly, in a way more accepting than if activity ever give advice on each others weak point.
    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    Socionics.com doesn't have good rep here, but I am posting this anyway because it can't be more true.
    This is exactly what I have experienced in all activity relations. After thinking about it I know this type very well, it's the dual type I am unsure of. So now I'm left wondering, about any negatives commonly found in duality...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jragonfly View Post
    You mean physical? I don't know if that would account for everything, there are some people that are definitely attractive but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with them!
    Well, when you're infatuated with someone, you don't see them for who they are; they become this mystical magical fantastical creature who's absolutely wonderful in every conceivable possible way who will make you happy forever etc etc etc.

    If you want the Socionics angle, some people are deceptively Dual-like, enough to trick a brain distracted by the chemical Hiroshima that is infatuation. Even then, some Duals are not for you, but it all seems so wonderful that you just let fairly critical things fly.

    This is something men have to deal with especially, unfortunately. My only advice would be to get out there, screw up a bit (because you and I are blessed with more reflectiveness than a house o' mirrors, so we don't have to screw up a lot), and learn.

    I think the best thing to do is just go for it, in the case of attraction, and try and stop and listen to any voice niggling in the back of your head that something is up before making any binding commitments. If you're sitting around in a situation where nobody's caught your eye, then yes, don't settle for silver when you could have gold. It's more elusive, but exponentially more precious and valuable.

    Anyway, to close, I'll comment that I would imagine all of the dual bashing comes from periods of dissatisfaction or frustration that naturally occur within relationships; either that or as a result of personal mistyping or mistyping of the supposed duals (for example, we had one XIE who had himself as an IEE--no wonder he thought SLIs were so atrocious!)

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    My purely empirical / observational note is that activity relations work well when they're between aristocract introverts (thus, positivist introverts - ISTj / INFp and ISTp / INFj). Democratic introverts (thus, negativist introverts) will wear each other out, ISF types don't seem to be tailored for INT types - often these relationships might even last a lifetime, however the lack of spark / understanding is obvious. Democratic extraverts (positivist extraverts) become too wild when paired, furthermore they generally think of themselves as being the coolest shit around, thus they might naturally repel each other / sense that the other isn't complementary. Aristocratic extraverts (negativist extraverts) tend to become explosive when paired, relationships might last if they enjoy quarreling / have sadomasochistic tendencies, yet they're likely to lead to abuse on the long term.
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    With my activity friends, I find that we frequently run out of things to talk about or conversation to make if we don't have a common interest or a shared focus to discuss. With my LSI friend, I remember when we were kids and I would sleep over at his house, we would always reach a point where he was tired of providing Se for me, and I was tired of providing Fe for him, and we would both retreat into our non-matching introverted pursuits, neither one annoying the other, but nether one really contributing to the other's enjoyment, either, which just made me think, "why am I not at my own house in my own bed?"

    Obviously, if you had absolutely no capacity for communication with a dual, like you spoke completely different languages or something, this would eventually happen even with a dual. But I think duality is much more effective than activity---especially with introvert pairs---at providing an inherent source of interaction, as in, the duality itself keeps you interested even when you run out of things to really talk about. There's something about the flow of duality that makes it so that you can't ever really run out of ways to interact in the way that you do with activity pairs.

    I think the problem with extroverted activity relations (or perhaps just extroverted aristocratic activity as FDG says) is that there's too much motion and not enough substance and the problem with introverted activity relations is that there's a lot of substance, but both partners get tired of communicating that substance to one another. The extroverts want someone to calm them down and the introverts want someone to charge them up. But of course, with activity relations, it takes much longer for this to happen than with most other non-duality relations, and of course, there's lots of important non-socionics factors like length of interaction, closeness of relationship, type of interaction, etc. If you're activity partners and you're working as writer and director on a major hollywood movie, yeah, you're probably going to have plenty to talk about, and you may still be more interested in talking with your activity about the movie than talking with your dual about her cat, lol.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    if they are a good person, go for it.


    the amount of people you've got a chance at real happiness with is slim.

    I think if you know socionics, that can even help you more, when it comes to realizing energy patterns and what someone else is subconsciously looking for.

    Relationships, just like sports, are not played 'on paper' or according to theory or statistics.


    I've been subconsciously thinking that duals are what to aim for, but for myself, and knowing my personality and likings, I would also consider an activity partner or even a very mature conflictor - because I've had great relationships with INFps, to be honest. But only some of them - based on similarities that are OUTSIDE of socionics.

    I'm hot for NF women, especially delta NFs.

    TOO much extratim and pushing against my initiatives bothers me, but, if you find someone who has the right mixture of things, then, so be it.

    I'm particularly curious about IEE-Fi and LSE-Te, at present (or whatever my subtype is). I wonder if for an activity relation, more "complementary" subtypes would be more appealing, as it would sort of play more towards the rationality difference. IDK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    A duality is always better than AN activity. A duality doesn't have to be better than THE activity.



    Overall, though, I agree w Numbers and Brian. Over time duality is not only more smooth; it's also more comfortable and pleasant -- in activity relations, the difference in temperament gets to be a problem if/when you get too close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    I'm particularly curious about IEE-Fi and LSE-Te, at present (or whatever my subtype is). I wonder if for an activity relation, more "complementary" subtypes would be more appealing, as it would sort of play more towards the rationality difference. IDK.
    Yeah, complementary subtypes probably help. Also, maturity of both people [although as you said earlier, that's always true]. Really, I think maturity and patience probably come into play in activity relations bc sometimes it takes a lot to put up w the difference in temperaments. If one or both are prone to temper tantrums and being generally impatient and/or emotionally childlike, things can go badly. [This is from my experience w LSEs... they can be *awesome* but they can also suck... like all types, to be fair ]

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    My purely empirical / observational note is that activity relations work well when they're between aristocract introverts (thus, positivist introverts - ISTj / INFp and ISTp / INFj). Democratic introverts (thus, negativist introverts) will wear each other out, ISF types don't seem to be tailored for INT types - often these relationships might even last a lifetime, however the lack of spark / understanding is obvious. Democratic extraverts (positivist extraverts) become too wild when paired, furthermore they generally think of themselves as being the coolest shit around, thus they might naturally repel each other / sense that the other isn't complementary. Aristocratic extraverts (negativist extraverts) tend to become explosive when paired, relationships might last if they enjoy quarreling / have sadomasochistic tendencies, yet they're likely to lead to abuse on the long term.
    This is very interesting.

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    Default Activity More Loyal Than Duality?

    Read On:

    http://translate.googleusercontent.c...5_JwtKRkR031vg

    Is it?

    What exactly does the author mean?

    Comment.
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    duals, semi duals, and illusionaries kinda correct each other. in a way you think the other person is kinda fucked up....yet you love and appreciate them. these relationships are on a corrective course.

    with activity, you basically don't see anything wrong with them, they really can do no wrong. i def feel this way about any esfj i've been close to. so maybe what she is saying is that because of this, there is more support and loyalty between activity partners, whereas duals tend to see where the other person is flawed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    duals, semi duals, and illusionaries kinda correct each other. in a way you think the other person is kinda fucked up....yet you love and appreciate them. these relationships are on a corrective course.

    with activity, you basically don't see anything wrong with them, they really can do no wrong. i def feel this way about any esfj i've been close to. so maybe what she is saying is that because of this, there is more support and loyalty between activity partners, whereas duals tend to see where the other person is flawed.
    Really? cause i thought that was supposed to be the case with duality. . .that duals dont see each other's flaws as flaws really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Really? cause i thought that was supposed to be the case with duality. . .that duals dont see each other's flaws as flaws really.
    yeah theoretically duals are supposed to overlook your flaws and i think they do. but i was thinking more about real relations not the theory and i came back to it again and again....with esfj, i really don't see anything wrong with them. my my dual, semi dual or illusionary, i kinda do see stuff that's wrong and want to help them correct those problems. i see it coming at me as well from duals, semi duals, and illusionaries. it's the thing that energizes the relationship, this love hate, push-pull ultimately forgiving passionate relationship. hmmmmmm.

    ILE

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    The idea behind Duality is that you see things, you just don't pass judgement on them being negative or outright bad things when it's your Dual. Activity just gives you this sense of discreteness and normalness.

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    I see what you guys are saying.

    Also today i had this flash of insight:

    With a dual, you get psychologically close enough that you not only see things that others may not, but also you feel comfortable criticizing (and you end up doing it in a way that makes the dual think "hmmm, yeah that's true i should work on that"). I guess that's how duals grow together.

    With an activity, it's less close. Like someone said, it's like two independent people being good friends, but staying separate. Which isn't bad either, necessarily. I think though that problems would be more likely to simmer and perhaps more likelihood for passive aggression, no?

    Assuming my insight is correct, that is. . .
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    yes, activity relations are very strong, and easy to begin because, in my case, ISTp's don't have the same hang ups that ESTj's have, which is waiting a long time to be sure about the person before they pursue the relationship, so these relations start fast and with ease.

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    I'm not sure more loyal but activity relationships are a lot easier to start and maintain, especially friendships.

    I can't easily start relationships with the SEI's I know because of all sort of fidelity issues and jealousies and intimacy start crossing our heads and eyes as we talk, and it's like everyone is looking at me and I get shy.

    With my dual it's more like a moral imperative to get as close as possible.

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    The author seems to be basically saying your activation will always support you and by offering support activation tend to be more loyal to one another.
    For instance if you found yourself in an embarrasing situation your activation partner would offer immediate help when and where you needed it without you asking them nor would they expect anything in return. Complement is always good but not always supportive in the same manner. In my opinion the author is right.

    Alpha examples: Extroverted intuition is an unconscious function within the ESE pysche but extroverted intuition is a conscious function for ILE. Metaphorically there is a door that ILE enter through all the time but ESE are completely oblivious to. ILE can basically show them the door and get them to act in new ways.

    In my opinion, LII do not have the same effect due to the nature of their personality as introverts and ESE personality as extroverts.
    An ESE would want more objectivity from an LII to follow their actions. A ILE can present a more appealing offer to act by presenting it more objectively, thus appealing to the extroverted nature of a ESE. LII can be objective in an extroverted sense and prompt a ESE to act but this occurs spontaneously.

    Introverted thinking is a conscious function within the LII pysche but introverted thinking is a unconscious function for SEI. LII have excellent analytical ability and can explain natural phenomena to SEI with ease and in great length and what SEI love is to be given the time to share their thoughts especially to such a proficient thinker such as LII (and they'll love you for it!!!*tip to all you ILE).

    In my opinion, ILE do have the ability to analyze as excellently as LII, however, they do not have the patience to listen to people and help them think through their thoughts and that includes SEI. They can perform quiet acts of introversion in the sense of listening to a SEI but this occurs spontaneously.

    Because ESE can turn to ILE regularly for support with their conscious functions and vice versa, they are loyal to one another. Because SEI can turn to LII regularly for support with their conscious function and vice versa, they are loyal to one another. In a duality, spontaneity feels nice but does not merit loyality to the same degree.

    To put it into context: your a SEI and your having a conversation at a dinner table with your alpha friends. The ESE seems to argue your point. The ILE seems interested in making their own point. The LII asks you to elaborate your point further so as to make yourself fully understood. The ESE and ILE listen for a short while but lose interest and start their own conversation. Throughout the course of the night though you may drift from the LII you have an unspoken bond that you can always approach them at any given moment. Though you may always find the ILE attractive in some sense, but their interest in what you have to say may vary.

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    Wow these were all really good posts, thanks, it really did help.

    In my personal case I and the other person in question are negativist introverts and I could definitely sense the lack of a spark and possible trouble in the future, plus the fact that I gradually feel worn down by them after awhile and need my own space.

    On the other hand we do get along really well and have tons in common, so I've concluded that for now there's nothing wrong with an activity relationship if there are no duals around. BUT, if I ever meet a dual that looks promising I am so jumping on that bandwagon!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jragonfly View Post
    On the other hand we do get along really well and have tons in common, so I've concluded that for now there's nothing wrong with an activity relationship if there are no duals around. BUT, if I ever meet a dual that looks promising I am so jumping on that bandwagon!
    caution! there is the possibility your activity can meet their dual too. Maybe that explains the divorce rate, then again isn't the marriage rate high as well. Remarring is fairly common. If two people wed that is an increase in the rate of marriage. If they divorce that is an increase in the divorce rate. If they remarry is that an increase in marriage (or rate or remarriage). So if two people marry, divorce and remarry that is 2 marriages and 1 divorce.

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