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Thread: German presidantal election

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Default German presidantal election

    After the first ballot today, the favorite candidate of the governing parties, Christian Wulff, was not able to reach the absolute majority. His rival, Joachim Gauck is more popular amoung the people. This won't help him much during the vote because the president will not be directly chosen by the german people. Now everyone is waiting for the second ballot.

    Meanwhile, how would you V.I. the candidates?

    Christian Wulff:




    Joachim Gauck:


    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Your guess sounds not bad, Pinocchio.
    Well, the Liberals in Germany (FDP) are mainly economical liberal and less social liberal. That's why the traditionally coalite with the conservatives (CDU/CSU). I know it sounds odd that the Liberals team up with the conservatives, but this situation persists for years. The Greens and the Social Democrats (SPD) are typically working together. They also brought up Joachim Gauck as a candidate. And the Left party politicians (successor of the communist/socialist party of East Germany) are doing what they want, as usual.They prefer to nominate an own candidate without any realistic chance instead of supporting Gauck to put the government under pressure.

    I agree that Gauck is Fi valuing. He is the one who founded an agency which revealed the STASI (secret police of East Germany) documents about persons who were suspicious to the GDR regime. This was a task where he showed very much commitment. (And this is why he's not very popular among Leftists. Of course, only inofficial.)
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Btw, you're with the left (I mean SDs and Greens), right? (you should )
    Well, I do favor Gauck as president and politically I'm closest to the Social Democrats, (you mean them when you say SDs, right?) even I don't agree their opinion all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Yeah, but that sounds normal - Left vs Right. On the other hand, if the Liberals would collaborate with the Greens, they could make a stronger pro-decentralization coalition, but as usual, they are fooled by the big guys .
    Theoretically, yes. But I don't think this would ever happen. They are too different to work together. There are also quarrels between Social Democrats and the Left Party if there is the debate of working together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Anyway, are you aware of my association between IEs and political axes? Of course, not that a certain type would adhere necessarily to one of them, but as attitude and concept about the realities and the problems: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post614016
    I didn't read your thread about that issue but I already thought about that. I did that test before and I found it very interesting. I you want you can take a look on my result:
    (I did it several times, it's a little wavering of course, but it's always the same quadrant)

    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    I didn't read your thread about that issue but I already thought about that. I did that test before and I found it very interesting. I you want you can take a look on my result:
    (I did it several times, it's a little wavering of course, but it's always the same quadrant)

    I'm in the same quadrant - though closer to the center on left/right axis - and can't imagine Beta/Gamma values as "authoritarian", even less so when compared to "libertarian" Delta. I'd say any assignment on this axis is going to have problems, including by valuing, rationality/irrationality, or other dichotomies I've tried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    It's not my thread, and I don't think that that test can tell anything about the type.
    Yes, sorry. I just saw your post at the top and thought it would have been yours. But what I can say about this is, that I'm very confident about the accuracy of my result of the political compass. It also says that this green quadrant (social-liberal politics) is not represented among the larger German parties. The FDP are liberals, but rather economical liberal or neo-liberal as I said.

    The election has become more interesting. Even in the second ballot Wulff did not get the absolute majority. Now, the Left Party could turn the scales. If they all vote for Joachim Gauck, he would have good chances to become president. If this really happens this could be the end of the current government since they might have to propose a vote of confidence. But for that, the Left Party must overcome their GDR history first.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Hehe... I think actually that the Left would be theoretically closer to the Conservators, because they are used to the same "iron hand" style, I suppose. Now "left" is just a label, I don't really use it, in the end, the communist block was basically never "for the people", like true left is, but pro strong structures, it was IMO a total paradox since Stalin.
    Of course, "real-life" communism was never executed in the way actual communism should be. Also because it's nearly impossible for mankind to achieve, I think. The final result seems to be quite open right now. Maybe the Left Party (it's the actual name of the party here in Germany) will recognize the chance of crushing the government and then benefit from unsatisfied voters. Or they will either vote their own candidate again or directly Christian Wulff, the result would be the same after the third ballot. In my opinion, the German Left Party has most resemblance with the greens of all major parties, even if they won't admit it.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Without looking at Pinocchio's response, I guessed LIE for Wulf (ILI is not unreasonable), and ESI for Gauk. To me, Wulf looks calm, understated, practical, and efficient, while Gauk looks tough, forceful, stubborn, and emotional.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Without looking at Pinocchio's response, I guessed LIE for Wulf (ILI is not unreasonable), and ESI for Gauk. To me, Wulf looks calm, understated, practical, and efficient, while Gauk looks tough, forceful, stubborn, and emotional.
    Also very good. You would surely be right with "calm" and "understated" for Wulff and "stubborn" for Gauck. But the other traits sound fitting as well regarding what I know about both persons.

    If anyone is interested, it's now official that Christian Wulff got the absolute majority after the third ballot. The candidate of the Left Party resigned and the voters of the Left Party abstained from voting.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Yeah, like usually in politics.
    Probably yes, but I don't like the way the Left Party acted. First, they come up with an own candidate who has no chance at all just because of their enormous ego. And after she resigned they wasted their votes with abstention (because of the same reason).

    If they had joined the SDs and the Greens from the beginning and gave their votes to Joachim Gauck, he would have had a real chance. But they couldn't leave their history behind... another reason for not voting them.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I'm in the same quadrant - though closer to the center on left/right axis - and can't imagine Beta/Gamma values as "authoritarian", even less so when compared to "libertarian" Delta. I'd say any assignment on this axis is going to have problems, including by valuing, rationality/irrationality, or other dichotomies I've tried.
    I'd say Beta values can easily be authoritarian. Actually, ST values are the most likely to be authoritarian, in my experience.
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    I'm guessing Wulff won, I saw a bunch of different newspapers with him on the front page while I was roaming the streets of Munich this morning?

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