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Thread: (γ) IM Element Semantics

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    xerx's Avatar
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    I've typed T.E. Lawrence and Hunter S. Thompson as ENFj. Patton is a very clear ESTp in my opinion, especially in the film portrayal.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism View Post
    There's nothing remotely Lawrence's writing. Large tracts of Seven Pillars are veritable bloodlettings of whenever he delves into discussing the historical backgrounds and geographical contexts.



    His semantic patterns fit definitively with what is described of and .



    Patton doesn't talk like an ego.
    How's that?
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Patton: "any plan that is excecuted violently and immediately beats a perfect one that is delayed".

    ESTp mentality in a nutshell.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    no u

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    How do you end up mentioning him twice in the Se section when his Se is supposed to be "weak"?

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    The simpler explanation is that he just made Se-ish statements a lot, and made them convicingly to the point he got remember for them. And the simplest explanation of this is that Se was a very strong function to him rather than just something valued but weak.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I disagree, I think that's Ej, not only that SLEs are thoughtful and tactical, IMO, but it's dishonorable for them to base their success on brute force.
    The suggestion that an ESTj would be more likely to resort to a brute force approach than an ESTp is beyond ridiculous and completely removed from anything that has ever been said about the two types.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    None of what you quoted even adresses the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I've typed T.E. Lawrence and Hunter S. Thompson as ENFj. Patton is a very clear ESTp in my opinion, especially in the film portrayal.
    This
    not too sure on Thompson but from what I've read Beta something makes sense
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    more
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Holy crap that's a lot of quotes hahaha

    How long have you been collecting those?
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Do any of you actually bother to research people with at least some eye for detail when making opinions of their type?
    Yup. Do you?
    Or do you just stick a picture of a function next to a quote?
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    No, it's a bit more involved than that. Read the link at the very top of the thread.
    I have. I remember bringing up that link slightly before I noticed you starting to use it.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I am delighted.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    I think you have a very different perspective of the IE's than that in Model A...
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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I think you have a very different perspective of the IE's than that in Model A...
    I'm pretty sure he knows that.

    My issues is that those quotes haven't been explained and directly linked to information in the semantics article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I think you have a very different perspective of the IE's than that in Model A...
    I believe he's using those quotes as exemplars of the semantics described in the link at the top of the thread, so I can't imagine how much different they'd be from any other IE descriptions.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    My issues is that those quotes haven't been explained and directly linked to information in the semantics article.
    I'd like an explanation too so I can have a better understanding of why he chose them.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    ._. Aiss's Avatar
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    I'd like an explanation too, at least on the ones. and many of the ones seem clear, but the others could use some commentary.

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    Question

    These are some quotes compiled over time from people I found interesting in the process of typing them. Selected statements are those I felt demonstrated something that could give insight into "what a function is really like"—something to illustrate the way that individual experiences the world, what the associated thought and emotional processes of that function are in various positions of the psyche (1/2/5/6), its shapes one's motivations and overall outlooks on life, etc.

    None of these statements should be considered 'pure' expressions of isolated functions. Real world manifestations of any apparent function in someone will always be colored in part by the other valued functions present in their psyche. Its expected that some statements will be suggestive of 2 or even 3 valued functions simultaneously; I picked the one that seemed most primary to the statement.
    There's a lot of things I'm confused about in this (and thereby the rest of this thread).

    I'm not sure what you are referring to when you use some words. Perhaps you can add clarity to the following things I bring up below...



    The first thing I was going to say was that the title and nature of the thread may benefit from you saying "These are Ashton's personal take on IM semantics" or something designating more clearly your own subjectivity. The first two paragraphs do that I suppose, but, it could be done more forcefully. I say this because, (especially when it comes to Semantics), those are subjective things. People's memories and associations, dennotations of words, phrases, and people, are all very different. Who an individual is, or what a word resonates within someone, those are very different things, and I believe they would influence something so delicate as semantics. It's good that you acknowledge that quotations should not be considered pure functions (elements?)

    The second item is your use of the terms functions and elements. I'm on a small campaign against people using "function" when they mean information element. The actual link of this thread, and its title, references information elements - Fi Fe Te Se and so on. But you are saying, mostly(?) the word functions. Is that intentional, or do you not see a difference between the two things? I interpret function as being the actual "slot" the element is in; according to whatever model you are using. A function can be "valued" in the sense that any kind of element in that function is valued (if, say, the function is one's dominant function). Similarly, an information element in and of itself is only considered valued or unvalued depending on what functional slot it is located at.

    Suggestion: you indicate that some quotes may contain various functions (elements?) at work, and I can agree with that. Maybe you could list some of the the elements that you see being valued or unvalued - I often see phrases as indicating "valued XX but unvalued XX". That may take more work, especially in creating or identifying context surrounding a quote or the personal disposition and inclinations, however.

    The third item is, of course, related to the others: What is the model you are using? I remember you having various issues with socionics models in the past, and I don't know if you still have one you prefer or not, or what you are in reference to. I thought up several jokes about this point that have to do with your current signature and how all models are limited. Undoubtedly, some of your answers to the other items I brought up are related to your disposition towards socionic models.


    Note to morons: Valuing a function vs. using it as an ego function are two different things. Don't confuse them.
    Yes, I agree. Although I still am unsure about things, see above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I don't interpret a difference between the terms 'function' and 'information element' nor do I see any reason to do. The terms are entirely interchangeable IMO, and most people seem to see it this way as well. If you don't see them that way, then you'll have to take that up with yourself because I can't bend over backwards to accommodate every interpretation of what the terms mean. It would inevitably require too much time and effort to make posts if I bothered w/ that.

    ...

    I don't use any model. It's unnecessary.
    Ok, that gives me a bit more understanding of where you're coming from, then.

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    Ashton, with your Fi quotes, you often mistake the Fi activators for ego block holders. They would essentially sound the same in certain situations or sayings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Cool. Oh fuck, I just went dyslexic. Words are weird.



    Like who?



    I agree that activation (and agenda) can sometimes sound the same as ego. Hence why I posted examples from ENTjs and INTps that I felt illustrated their valuing. I think people on average tend to be far more aware of and effectively utilize their superid functions than is conventionally portrayed. Its the only way most intertype relations could make realistic sense.
    “People stay married because they want to, not because the doors are locked.” –Paul Newman (Fi-ESFp)

    That is Se; anyone can mention people and marriage, but that doesn't make it Fi; this is actually SeTi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    You have to read it context of other things he says, for example:



    Along with many more on Wikiquote. There are also videos I can link if you'd like. The guy is blatantly ESFp. Further, his wife (Joanne Woodward) is INTp and they make an excellent example of a dual pairing.
    So what if he supports gay rights? being tolerant is not excluded to Fi only.

    Se -" I see colors, imagery." He describes things with a certain level of Ti (systems and structure/rules...etc).

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    “I'm a supporter of gay rights." SeTi (there's no Fi here what so ever) It's based on action only "I run; I support" etc.

    "I feel that it's important to support gay rights." FiNe because it notes values/ideal -it's important to me so it should be that way to everyone -universal application of my singular idea.


    "And not a closet supporter either." SeTi (again no Fi and no emphasis on how that makes him feel as a person, as an individual with ideals; it's just an action based statement).

    ETC...analyze the rest... Look for should's, ought to's, feelings, feeling of ideals and relationship bonds,


    From the time I was a kid, I have never been able to understand attacks upon the gay community. There are so many qualities that make up a human being… by the time I get through with all the things that I really admire about people, what they do with their private parts is probably so low on the list that it is irrelevant.” –Paul Newman (Fi-ESFp)

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    (γ) lol a butt

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Looks more like a woman's hips and thighs to me.
    yeah true

    yummmm women's mid-sections

  30. #30
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Mmhmm.

    P.S. I like your new avatar.
    y thank u

    i lost my shirt that had that image on it. i don't know what happened to it. i'm very upset by this, it was my favorite shirt from that collection. now i guess my favorite is the bastiat economic harmonies shirt.

    though i also like nock's because it's similar "our enemy, the state".

  31. #31
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    That exchange was so retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    “I'm a supporter of gay rights." SeTi (there's no Fi here what so ever) It's based on action only "I run; I support" etc.

    "I feel that it's important to support gay rights." FiNe because it notes values/ideal -it's important to me so it should be that way to everyone -universal application of my singular idea.
    Wow.. so just look for the word 'feel'? Good idea!
    INTp

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    That exchange was so retarded.
    um... yeah, it was. But it was also pleasantly typical. I like typical things very much.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Perhaps that's just the SEE's job in gammaland.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  35. #35
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Dolphin's always making fun of us.
    I thought she was talking about you and Maritsa.

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