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Thread: Sherlock Holmes

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    Default Sherlock Holmes

    I am going to type him as LSE-Te 8w9. The latest film (2009) makes him look sort of badass and showy in a slightly more beta fashion, but, at his core, I understand why he (the chracter) is a common representative of LSE.

    As with myself, he seems to be someone who finds work a manner, ultimately, of mental entertainment and influence over the world. It's simply boring to not be working, or pushing towards something.

    I was trying to find a clip from the movie, where he says "
    My mind rebels at stagnation. Give me work. Give me problems.

    But I could not - I did however stumble upon the origin of his quote in Doyel's works. In the film, Holmes says it after 3 months with no work, him shut in his room, in a terrible, stagnant state - the original of the text is slightly different but along the same lines - I relate to both.

    (spoiler tags aren't working, sorry)
    The Sign of the Four Page 01

    The Sign of the Four
    By Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
    Chapter 1
    The Science of Deduction
    Sherlock Holmes took his bottle from the corner of the mantel- piece and his hypodermic syringe from its neat morocco case. With his long, white, nervous fingers he adjusted the delicate needle, and rolled back his left shirt-cuff. For some little time his eyes rested thoughtfully upon the sinewy forearm and wrist all dotted and scarred with innumerable puncture-marks. Finally he thrust the sharp point home, pressed down the tiny piston, and sank back into the velvet-lined arm-chair with a long sigh of satisfaction.
    Three times a day for many months I had witnessed this performance, but custom had not reconciled my mind to it. On the contrary, from day to day I had become more irritable at the sight, and my conscience swelled nightly within me at the thought that I had lacked the courage to protest. Again and again I had registered a vow that I should deliver my soul upon the subject, but there was that in the cool, nonchalant air of my companion which made him the last man with whom one would care to take anything approaching to a liberty. His great powers, his masterly manner, and the experience which I had had of his many extraordinary qualities, all made me diffident and backward in crossing him.
    Yet upon that afternoon, whether it was the Beaune which I had taken with my lunch, or the additional exasperation produced by the extreme deliberation of his manner, I suddenly felt that I could hold out no longer.
    "Which is it to-day?" I asked,--"morphine or cocaine?"
    He raised his eyes languidly from the old black-letter volume which he had opened. "It is cocaine," he said,--"a seven-per- cent. solution. Would you care to try it?"
    "No, indeed," I answered, brusquely. "My constitution has not got over the Afghan campaign yet. I cannot afford to throw any extra strain upon it."
    He smiled at my vehemence. "Perhaps you are right, Watson," he said. "I suppose that its influence is physically a bad one. I find it, however, so transcendently stimulating and clarifying to the mind that its secondary action is a matter of small moment."
    "But consider!" I said, earnestly. "Count the cost! Your brain may, as you say, be roused and excited, but it is a pathological and morbid process, which involves increased tissue-change and may at last leave a permanent weakness. You know, too, what a black reaction comes upon you. Surely the game is hardly worth the candle. Why should you, for a mere passing pleasure, risk the loss of those great powers with which you have been endowed? Remember that I speak not only as one comrade to another, but as a medical man to one for whose constitution he is to some extent answerable."
    He did not seem offended. On the contrary, he put his finger- tips together and leaned his elbows on the arms of his chair, like one who has a relish for conversation.
    "My mind," he said, "rebels at stagnation. Give me problems, give me work, give me the most abstruse cryptogram or the most intricate analysis, and I am in my own proper atmosphere. I can dispense then with artificial stimulants. But I abhor the dull routine of existence. I crave for mental exaltation. That is why I have chosen my own particular profession,--or rather created it, for I am the only one in the world."
    "The only unofficial detective?" I said, raising my eyebrows.
    "The only unofficial consulting detective," he answered. "I am the last and highest court of appeal in detection. When Gregson or Lestrade or Athelney Jones are out of their depths--which, by the way, is their normal state--the matter is laid before me. I examine the data, as an expert, and pronounce a specialist's opinion. I claim no credit in such cases. My name figures in no newspaper. The work itself, the pleasure of finding a field for my peculiar powers, is my highest reward. But you have yourself had some experience of my methods of work in the Jefferson Hope case."
    "Yes, indeed," said I, cordially.

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    Some quotes from Wikipedia that don't seem to indicate a Si type :-p:
    Although in his methods of thought he was the neatest and most methodical of mankind ... [he] keeps his cigars in the coal-scuttle, his tobacco in the toe end of a Persian slipper, and his unanswered correspondence transfixed by a jack-knife into the very centre of his wooden mantelpiece ... He had a horror of destroying documents ... Thus month after month his papers accumulated, until every corner of the room was stacked with bundles of manuscript which were on no account to be burned, and which could not be put away save by their owner.
    The detective is often described as starving himself at times of intense intellectual activity, ....where, according to Watson:

    [Holmes] had no breakfast for himself, for it was one of his peculiarities that in his more intense moments he would permit himself no food, and I have known him to presume upon his iron strength until he has fainted from pure inanition.[11]
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    LSE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Some quotes from Wikipedia that don't seem to indicate a Si type :-p:

    The detective is often described as starving himself at times of intense intellectual activity, ....where, according to Watson:

    [Holmes] had no breakfast for himself, for it was one of his peculiarities that in his more intense moments he would permit himself no food, and I have known him to presume upon his iron strength until he has fainted from pure inanition.[11]
    Good that you brought that up, this is a rather good example of the differences between Si dominants and Si creatives. LSE/ESE's can put their need for pleasant Si on hold for the sake of their base functions needs
    "LSEs usually cannot switch into relaxation mode at the drop of a hat. They need to finish tasks that they expected to accomplish before they can consciously allow themselves to relax. Relaxation, like their other activities, must be approached rationally with an eye to the overall results, rather than allowing oneself to be guided by the impulses of the moment. When they willingly switch to a "vacation" mode and know that they have adequate leisure time, LSEs will delve into relaxation with gusto. Without adequate time, they tend to avoid relaxing too much, as it jeopardizes their productivity."
    Than combined this with an Ni PoLR, which is something like living life with the Jeopardy theme playing in the background making them think they're time is running out
    Like the LSE BAMF General Petraeus who passed-out during a senate hearing because he just doesn't *stop*


    Back to Holmes...

    He has a knack for picking up and remembering sensory data, taste, smell, appearance, etc, which play a major role in his solving methods
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Now I can see why LSE's can burn me out! (Even though I love them!!)
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    Umm, I kind of agree with Pinocchio on this. Si IPs can put their "physical" (or comfort) needs on hold as much as Si EJs can (and are perhaps one of the most capable types of consciously controlling their disposal of energy) for the sake of accomplishing something, or when it is necessary to do so. The fact that you are sensitive to sensory data, gives you more power of controlling it.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Good that you brought that up, this is a rather good example of the differences between Si dominants and Si creatives. LSE/ESE's can put their need for pleasant Si on hold for the sake of their base functions needs


    Than combined this with an Ni PoLR, which is something like living life with the Jeopardy theme playing in the background making them think they're time is running out
    Like the LSE BAMF General Petraeus who passed-out during a senate hearing because he just doesn't *stop*
    Gah.. this keyboard is driving me crazy !#$!$ shift key wtf.. forget capitals..

    anyway, I'm not acquainted with this general petraeus fellow nor his type, so I can't comment on him.. but i agree with pinoccchio re lses and mountain vikings etc. anyway, i think it's important to look at why sherlock would deprive himself in that way .. because obviously any type is capable of such behaviour. my impression from the books was that he actually got pleasure out of those kinds of physical states - that by depriving himself in that way and making things more stressful for himself than they had to be.. it actually gave him more clarity of thought etc. also, sherlock apparently used drugs because he'd go a little nuts in the absence of any cases to stimulate him - boredom drove him to it .. my impression is that he loved stimulating states in general.
    Last edited by Rubicon; 06-26-2010 at 09:06 PM.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Unfortunately not always the case. I've known LSEs to interrupt meal times esp at work, as well as personal time and such, also others where most important part of their working day is food - some LSEs can actually be a bit lazy. However for this sort of thing, I do observe subtypes having a difference as well as personality along with life circumstance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Totally wrong. LSEs respect these things for themselves and the others and they never interfere in someone else rest, meals, habits, spare time. These are sacred for LSEs.

    What you talk about is rather between Si Base - because you use "pleasure", assigning a rather hedonistic sense to this Si - and Ni Creative - because you suggested that this happens consciously.

    LSEs think similarly with those mountain Vikings (or whatever) who say that if you don't eat meat you are weak and can't do anything, you don't have strength to work. Therefore, you have to eat meat (Si), to get the job done (Te). Si-Creative is used, is a requirement for the Base function of these types, not a silly pleasure. Si is not pleasure anyway.
    They would rather try force people to eat, sleep and such to be "capable" - and they do it happened to me with all these types, because of my bad sleeping and eating habits, my mother and mother-in-law really piss me off with this.
    ---

    Please people don't believe this shit, it's one of the gravest mistakes I saw so far.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Umm, I kind of agree with Pinocchio on this. Si IPs can put their "physical" (or comfort) needs on hold as much as Si EJs can (and are perhaps one of the most capable types of consciously controlling their disposal of energy) for the sake of accomplishing something, or when it is necessary to do so. The fact that you are sensitive to sensory data, gives you more power of controlling it.
    But wasn't Pinocchio's point that LSE's don't put these things on hold?

    btw, I agree with your statements, i've observed the same. It's the motive for accomplishing the something that differentiates the 2 types, IMO. The way i see it is, SLI wants to finish so they can go have leisure time. LSE wants to finish because they are excited about what the result will be.

    No?
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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I don't know why you can't talk to me without being degrading or insulting. If you can't speak to me without being like this, just because I don't think your typing of IEE for me is right, then it's best we don't speak at all.

    Can you let me know so that I know whether to put you on ignore or not? I mean you don't even ask me for elaboration on things your not sure about, you just tell me I'm wrong and that I invent my own LSE. That isn't even an attempt at a discussion there's no need esp on a discussion forum surely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Nothing new about you, but you again mistyped some (in case these "LSE" you talk about are not yet another invention of yours). LSEs don't interrupt you while you eat or sleep or whatever. They would admonish you for not doing these things on time, or will try to delay if there's something urgent to be done, "organize" you in the future, but not interrupt. Apart of course, threatening situation where anyone would do this, but this is not type-related.

    LSEs themselves, once entered self-care mode, they don't accept to be interrupted, it's ridiculous to believe that "your LSEs" disturb others. Lol! That was a good one, actually.

  11. #11
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Because of your passive-aggressive attitude, bullshit and lies. I don't see the point in wearing gloves with you as long as you're so obstructionist and hypocrite. What you said is just your usual scheme to take on me, it's total false crap. Nevertheless, besides pointing out your incompetence, I answered you reasonably.

    I've done nothing wrong to you, you're victimizing yourself to make me appear the aggressor. My recommendation is to go to a psychiatrist, with crazedrat I was joking, but you present the clear passive-aggressive symptoms, I'm very serious about it, maybe this is what ruins your social life. I'd like to help, but not while being attacked myself.
    Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. I've don't have issues with my social life and I've never said it. I don't know why you say I need a psychologist as passive-aggression is not anything I'm accused of, except this might be the first time, just there by you, so it can't be a problem I need help with in my life.

    I do know that you're not a psychologist, but a computer programmer, so I don't think you're qualified to diagnose me like you did esp when you base it with things that aren't even me.


    You have nothing to elaborate, as far as I'm concerned: I know LSEs both by descriptions and real life, any attempt to convince me otherwise with mere confessions is futile, that's not evidence for me. It's your words versus my experience.

    As far as our relationship is concerned, I would not wish you to put me on invisible, specifically. But if there's no other option, you may do that, this conflict with you doesn't give me any satisfaction. There are some things that I'm sure of, trying to discredit me in the hope that I'd eventually accept your self-typing is useless - I can't accept it because you're not an SLI - it doesn't depend on me man, please understand!
    You don't know anything about me - you even just invented stuff about me. I asked you before to explain your reasons for IEE to me, and you told me you'd no intentions of explaining it, and that I should accept it simply because you said so. How is that reasonable, I doubt you'd accept that yourself. I don't think anyone would.

    Can you please say something that will explain your reasons for you typing me as my dual IEE in your next post. I already have an answer that you won't or don't know how to speak to me without the insulting demeaning manners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    anyway, I'm not acquainted with this general petraeus fellow nor his type, so I can't comment on him.. but i agree with pinoccchio re lses and mountain vikings etc. anyway, i think it's important to look at why sherlock would deprive himself in that way .. because obviously any type is capable of such behaviour. my impression from the books was that he actually got pleasure out of those kinds of physical states - that by depriving himself in that way and making things more stressful for himself than they had to be.. it actually gave him more clarity of thought etc. also, sherlock apparently used drugs because he'd go a little nuts in the absence of any cases to stimulate him - boredom drove him to it .. my impression is that he loved stimulating states in general.
    Which reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson, another probable LSE.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Nothing new about you, but you again mistyped some (in case these "LSE" you talk about are not yet another invention of yours). LSEs don't interrupt you while you eat or sleep or whatever. They would admonish you for not doing these things on time, or will try to delay if there's something urgent to be done, "organize" you in the future, but not interrupt. Apart of course, threatening situation where anyone would do this, but this is not type-related.

    LSEs themselves, once entered self-care mode, they don't accept to be interrupted, it's ridiculous to believe that "your LSEs" disturb others. Lol! That was a good one, actually.
    Um i sort of interpreted Cyclops' phrasing differently. I thought he said he knows some LSEs who are ok with interrupting their own mealtime (say for the sake of some work-related issue), and other LSEs whose highlight of the workday is food (i.e. wouldn't interrupt it for ANYTHING). I know a couple LSEs of each version myself.

    I suspect the issue is that you may have interpreted it in a different way, Pinocchio, which i can also see happening as I reread Cyclops' post. But (correct me if i'm wrong cyclops), I believe he meant it the way i mentioned here.

    But i do agree that LSEs would hesitate interrupting someone else's Si venture, but that's just because they are Si-valuing. I similarly treat sleep and meals as highly sacred things, and even if i neglect those things in myself sometimes, short of an emergency i would never interrupt someone else's sleep or meal or rest. And I'm not even Si-ego.
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  14. #14
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    He's too busy listening to himself.

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    Landon Donavan - LSE's dual or conflictor? or something else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    You make a really-really good point. I still think that this an exception from a sensible LSE overall image which is pointed otherwise. Again, I'm not very accustomed to the character (I forgot most of what I read and saw apart from the last "Baskervilles" movie), I might be wrong, but what I know and remember makes me consider LSE above others: hyperactivity combined with extreme attention to detail and simplistic - but hard to be distracted - Si Creative of the "this implies that, this is caused by that" type of reasoning.
    IMO this is a detail that doesn't make sense - especially that intentional and useless deprivation part, but I think it can be diluted in the big picture relatively easily, in trying to establish a type for him. But to be accurate, yes, IMO he could not be typed as a credible, real type.

    I'll post here a marvellous excerpt of Ti vs Te clash, between Holmes and Stapleton/Baskerville (character which I type as SLE in this movie). Btw, he denies having a wife because he was shaked emotionally (although he's an SLE ) - he just was driven to kill her, she was indeed his wife, but didn't submit to reason in critical moments and tried to betray him - so her death was somehow expected, from a 3rd POV, IMO.
    The Ti vs Te clash about the view on the deeds of Stapleton, which Holmes sees as a "job" (as any other) where Stapleton sees it as a (unique) "design". Designs are always unique, jobs are usually similar.

    In this movie, Holmes also appears as an LSE (much more than in that last movie, IMO), not only by VI but even in the scenes where he gets stoned he has a rational attitude, he does not appear craving, but rather doing what has to be done, with no preparation for a mood or something.
    YouTube - H.O.B Holmes vs Stapleton
    That clip was interesting. That type of person (Holmes' character) makes me really uncomfortable. His emotional imperturbability..

    I thought Stapleton denied having a wife because it was technically true at the time, her being dead.

    Anyway, yeah .. I could easily see him being LSE from that clip. He's portrayed differently in every movie though I think. I was just going from the books. :-P
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Which reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson, another probable LSE.
    Another guy I know nothing of. Keep 'em coming. :-p
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Totally wrong. LSEs respect these things for themselves and the others and they never interfere in someone else rest, meals, habits, spare time. These are sacred for LSEs.
    No. It depends entirely on the orientation - if there is stuff to be done or things that could be done better, your meals, habits, spare time, or other things are absolutely not sacred.

    What you talk about is rather between Si Base - because you use "pleasure", assigning a rather hedonistic sense to this Si - and Ni Creative - because you suggested that this happens consciously.

    LSEs think similarly with those mountain Vikings (or whatever) who say that if you don't eat meat you are weak and can't do anything, you don't have strength to work. Therefore, you have to eat meat (Si), to get the job done (Te). Si-Creative is used, is a requirement for the Base function of these types, not a silly pleasure. Si is not pleasure anyway.
    They would rather try force people to eat, sleep and such to be "capable" - and they do it happened to me with all these types, because of my bad sleeping and eating habits, my mother and mother-in-law really piss me off with this.
    ---
    Right...... which is in contradiction to what you said before about those things being sacred.

    Please people don't believe this shit, it's one of the gravest mistakes I saw so far.
    I think you are trying to get at trying to be more articulate about what Si is to an LSE, but it didn't pan out well in this attempt.

  19. #19
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    ftr, I used to work for an LSE who owned the company, he'd frequently ask people work related questions while they eating their lunchtone sandwich. Pinocchio, don't make the mistake of typing from incorrect stances - and please try to loose the ILI arrogance, you don't understand everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    ftr, I used to work for an LSE who owned the company, he'd frequently ask people work related questions while they eating their lunchtone sandwich.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    It's not that suprising, someone else having lunch or a bit of spare time doesn't necessarily stop a business man, esp a self made one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's not that suprising, someone else having lunch or a bit of spare time doesn't necessarily stop a business man, esp a self made one.
    Ah yeah, I was joking. :-p I would think it's a pretty common thing to do.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  23. #23
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Ah yeah, I was joking. :-p I would think it's a pretty common thing to do.
    lol I know, sorry.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    "if there is stuff to be done ..." then what, what you do? You do "not sacred"? I don't get your point.

    It's no contradiction, either you're trying to make up one or you didn't understand what I said. In this case they ask people to do those things, not deter them, it's exactly the opposite, I'm puzzled by what you say.

    The above misrepresentations point to you wanting to prove me wrong because you don't like my attitude and profit of your position of a self-typed LSE to do it.
    How would you know you work at home so you don't see work colleagues, anyway you never leave you're always here - so you should listen to the LSE here and the closest you'll get, speaking as their mirror the SLI.

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    Sherlock Holmes's bizarre eating habits can be attributed to his extreme manic-depressiveness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    "if there is stuff to be done ..." then what, what you do? You do "not sacred"? I don't get your point.
    ??
    Yeah there is some sort of confusion here.

    It's no contradiction, either you're trying to make up one or you didn't understand what I said. In this case they ask people to do those things, not deter them, it's exactly the opposite, I'm puzzled by what you say.
    You're saying they don't interfere.
    And yet they obviously do interfere .
    How is this not a contradiction? Or, what are you seeing that makes it not a contradiction?

    The above misrepresentations point to you wanting to prove me wrong because you don't like my attitude and profit of your position of a self-typed LSE to do it.
    I don't know what your "attitude" is - do you want to tell me about it? What you think of my type is not a concern to me, particularly right now - I'm not taking about my type, I'm talking about what you said, and I don't think it makes sense.

    (I haven't read any of your other posts in this thread, I'm only concerned with this one matter, at present)



    Totally wrong. LSEs respect these things for themselves and the others and they never interfere in someone else rest, meals, habits, spare time. These are sacred for LSEs.
    ....
    LSEs think similarly with those mountain Vikings (or whatever) who say that if you don't eat meat you are weak and can't do anything, you don't have strength to work. Therefore, you have to eat meat (Si), to get the job done (Te). Si-Creative is used, is a requirement for the Base function of these types, not a silly pleasure. Si is not pleasure anyway.
    They would rather try force people to eat, sleep and such to be "capable" - and they do it
    happened to me with all these types, because of my bad sleeping and eating habits, my mother and mother-in-law really piss me off with this.
    If you don't see how I am able to see this as a contradiction, then I'm not sure what to say.

    You say you are upset for LSEs interfering with your sleeping or eating habits, and you say that LSEs don't interfere. If that's not how you feel, then perhaps you can explain your position better so I don't see it as a contradiction.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It's not that suprising, someone else having lunch or a bit of spare time doesn't necessarily stop a business man, esp a self made one.
    One of the doctors/PI's i worked with was like that too. I type him LSE as well, though he looks an AWFUL lot like young Christopher Plummer, whom I type tentatively as SLI. This guy may even have been Te-SLI, though his passion for his work keeps me going back to LSE for him. Or, Plummer is an LSE. The resemblance is just TOO great to ignore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    One of the doctors/PI's i worked with was like that too. I type him LSE as well, though he looks an AWFUL lot like young Christopher Plummer, whom I type tentatively as SLI. This guy may even have been Te-SLI, though his passion for his work keeps me going back to LSE for him. Or, Plummer is an LSE. The resemblance is just TOO great to ignore.
    I doubt he's LSE, check with Pinocchio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I doubt he's LSE, check with Pinocchio.
    check with WHO? But I want an accurate typing! (uhoh did i just open a can of worms?)
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    I watched an old, English movie featuring Sherlock Holmes. SH looked LII to me.
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    I'd think he was generally SLI.. He might have had some stereotypical eccentrities common to NTs, but I don't think it means that much. He has strong perception skills, of course, and one that didn't jump to too many conclusions without touching base with evidence. "It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment."

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    like with any portrayal, there are many things involved

    the author, the authors desires
    the actor, the director, the nature of the show
    etc

    I'm sure you could find a portrayal of Holmes that looked entirely beta - I think I saw a cartoon like that before.


    So it depends on which portrayal you're referring to -expecting them all to be identical seems unwise.

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    Default Sherlock Holmes & his loyal sidekick Dr. Watson

    It's the Whazzup Holmes thread tiiiimeee!!! Would you just look at those golden little motherfuckers go:




    I really love those boys, I most certainly do. What could possibly make me happier than Holmes working hard over a chemical investigation? Nothing, I'm telling you. They're like angels.


    I found an old topic of the said gentleman, but it was rather horrifying to read due to a bunch of deleted messages, so I decided to start a new thread for our beloved consultin detective, certainly worthy of a couple of threads if you ask me (especially the other one being started by no other than the grand --->me<---, might I add). I'd appreciate it if this thread focused primarily on the original ACD stories – the different on-screen adaptations could possibly mess the matters a bit too much for anyone's tastes, although I don't averse to making separate points about the different incarnations.

    Now, due to the common typing os LSE, could someone please start with explaining what exactly is more Ne-Si than Se-Ni valuing about Holmes?
    I don't claim expertise on typing fictional characters, but this has bothered me for quite a while. I agree on his fairly obvious EJ temperament, though. I would also greatly appreciate a brief clarification on the subject of Te and Ti and how the difference can be seen in Holmes, although I by no means try to deny the strong possibility of Te-ness. Just, you know, interested, as pretty much always.

    I'm also very interested in hearing how his bipolar tendencies could affect his typing.

    Being the most sincere fan of Dr. Watson, I am hungry to hear your thoughts on his type. Fi or just very victorian? His narratives strike me as rather dramatic. I've also gotten a gut feeling of Se when it comes to him, but what would I know.



    ?
    ?
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    I've only read the very first sherlock story and I thought Te leading worked for Holmes. He was a pretty active guy that accumulated myriad shit tons of knowledge and did cocaine. Watson was kind of a softie, holmes ego-feeder that latched onto the first single woman he came across.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    latched onto the first single woman he came across.
    If you're referring to A Study in Scarlet, he didn't, not in that one. But this is a good point which I might just shine some of my light on – you see, there's a lot of speculation amongst Holmesians about Watsons wife, or more likely, wives. He seemed to fuck around a lot and we don't even know if he actually married Morstan. But very little can be said on the subject – we've mostly just got Watson mentioning "his wife" here and there every now and then.

    Also, about the softness – he is a soldier, an athlete (rugby and shit) and always ready to grab his revolver and go around risking his life pretty much for the excitement of it. I think he is often pretty tough.

    Holmes has a shit ton of knowledge about specific topics of his interest and minimal about some – one famous example being him not knowing that earth revolves around sun. But I guess that takes the speculation to another direction – I'd say he fits on the autism spectrum pretty darn well.
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    Oh I guess it wasn't the first one, it was The Sign of Four, but yeah idk, I just remember Watson limping after Holmes singing his praises all book long, getting engaged to the first female witness they talked to, and not doing much else than shooting some dude that was running away or something.
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    Hi.

    I've missed you.

    Um....do you want me to offer my opinion?

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    Neural wonderchild Aivonaima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post

    I've missed you.
    Aww.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan View Post
    Um....do you want me to offer my opinion?
    Sure. All kinds of views would be very welcome.


    I had actually written down points & quotes from the books of why I perceive Holmes more Se-Ni than Ne-Si valuing, but I've lost the file somewhere... I'm also a little dubious about Fi-valuing even though in principle, Te would fit the picture, I guess. Not that I'd have a full understanding on my own PoLR, but yeah.

    I don't know if it's just in Watson's narrative, but Holmes seems quite emotionally expressive at times. Sure, he is peculiar in many manners and doesn't exactly value sentimentalism, but can be dramatic and expressive at times especially when excited, e.g. the very first time he is seen in the books, when Watson meets him in the lab in A Study in Scarlet:

    There was only one student in the room, who was bending over a distant table absorbed in his work. At the sound of our steps he glanced round and sprang to his feet with a cry of pleasure. "I've found it! I've found it," he shouted to my companion, running towards us with a test-tube in his hand. "I have found a re-agent which is precipitated by hoemoglobin, and by nothing else." Had he discovered a gold mine, greater delight could not have shone upon his features. --

    "Ha! ha!" he cried, clapping his hands, and looking as delighted as a child with a new toy. "What do you think of that?" --


    His eyes fairly glittered as he spoke, and he put his hand over his heart and bowed as if to some applauding crowd conjured up by his imagination.

    Now, my dear fellows, what do you make of that?
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    Well, it's not lupus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    Aww.



    Sure. All kinds of views would be very welcome.


    I had actually written down points & quotes from the books of why I perceive Holmes more Se-Ni than Ne-Si valuing, but I've lost the file somewhere... I'm also a little dubious about Fi-valuing even though in principle, Te would fit the picture, I guess. Not that I'd have a full understanding on my own PoLR, but yeah.

    I don't know if it's just in Watson's narrative, but Holmes seems quite emotionally expressive at times. Sure, he is peculiar in many manners and doesn't exactly value sentimentalism, but can be dramatic and expressive at times especially when excited, e.g. the very first time he is seen in the books, when Watson meets him in the lab in A Study in Scarlet:




    Now, my dear fellows, what do you make of that?
    The general emotionality in terms of excited and sudden reactivity to an event fits the LSE, from having read about how he approached others once he found the solution and LSE are very much like that. One of the reasons why they call them FIRE or ICE. either they are in work mode in which they are hardly perceptible to others or they are in Fire mode, where they gravitate all attention to themselves.

    Um. Do you want to know about the type of the original written Shirlok or the movies/shows?

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