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Thread: I can't go with you, Pinocchio

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    Default I can't go with you, Pinocchio.

    A user named Pinocchio (ILE) respected & connected with a few of my posts and began insisting that I'm an ILE, which could be seen as flattering....if he hadn't begun resorting to insults on my intelligence for my not seeing how ILE I am.


    If there's anything clear when people meet me, it's that I'm outwardly administrative or organizing of resources in the physical world (not ideas or systemic components in a system, Pinocchio). This organization of resources and my emphasis on efficiency indicate.

    According to this source, is used when people see the most efficient way of getting what they want. A large percentage of my posts involve me stating that calling someone stupid is ineffectual in trying to win them over to one's side.

    Although we can't visually see expressions on the faces of the ILE nor on that of the purported ILI (myself) in question, a comparison of Pinocchio's and my emotive foci in our writing seems to reveal clear differences. I'm much more concerned about how the individual relates--, according to this source.

    I also use a lot of references to how things appear (in contrast the ILE points out that things ARE, which I find more in friends of mine), presentation (but the ILE resorts to insulting me personally for not agreeing with him), and possible results of actions (which is ).





    My typing ability has been challenged. here goes. . .

    What I find to be one of the best ways to type is using the combined evaluative tools of Quadra values and of relational dynamics. If people are obsequious toward one (symmetrical relationship) and the people exhibit all of the qualities of Gammas (source)and seem more comfortable acting with than with , I'd have reason to believe I was a Delta ENFp or a Beta ISTj, since Gamma NTs have an asymmetrical relation of Benefit with these two types.It could also be that I have a relationship which is Supervisory (also symmetrical with NT Gammas) and be a Delta ISTp or a Beta ENFj. That's one of many exercises I do in my head when I try to evaluate a type.


    I didn't just find this site. I'm a lurker on several socionics AND mbti/typology sites. I frequently read Russian translations of socionic types and read about the functions. I thought I'd spent about 3 years sifting through the types, but I realized it's actually been about 4.


    Almost everything Pinocchio and I have said to each other on two threads--and we've said a lot--reeks of Alpha-Gamma conflict and extinguishment/contrary relations, to me.

    any thoughts on how to clear up this misunderstanding would be appreciated.

    Figaro for today (nanashi)
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    You two make a cute couple.

    I wish there was a virtual arena where members could dual it out. The victor gets to choose the type of the loser.

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    And who could objectively determine the winner?
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    I dated an ILE for 4 months once--it was hell for both of us. He was and is a great guy. But not for me (romantically).
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Why not LIE, again?

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    If you're asking why I don't type myself as LIE,

    I do consider it now and then.


    Current reasons I don't: I identify most with the socionics description of ILI, use as a parenting myself thing, lapse into hours of activities naturally.

    Possible additional reason: I am pretty low energy now. I don't know if that's just recent, though. I'll have to think on it.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    And who could objectively determine the winner?
    The loser could. If they can't agree who won, it's a tie. :wink:



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    And who could objectively determine the winner?
    Well, last man (or woman) still talking standing, of course. That's how it usually works on the internetz.

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    Aren't ILE's cute?

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    Unbelievable. Unbelievable presentation from both parties. I applaud you both.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    The loser could. If they can't agree who won, it's a tie. :wink:
    LOL. What if they, neither of them, concede that either party won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Divided View Post
    Well, last man (or woman) still talking standing, of course. That's how it usually works on the internetz.
    It seems my not skipping work this evening (to remain on the forum, instead) proves that I am stumped by arguments I haven't responded verbally to yet and shamed into silence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Divided View Post


    Aren't ILE's cute?
    Actually here's (<----click)an interesting analysis of that story on a blog I read a while back. The characters are typed by the blogger. Thoughts? I totally think she's got Figaro, Geppetto, Honest John, and Gideon right. Not so sure about the Cricket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    Unbelievable. Unbelievable presentation from both parties. I applaud you both.
    I'm not sure if you mean this is decent arguing or that we're both looking vitriolic to you. I'll go with the positive one for now.

    Thanks!
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    In case anyone's wondering, I respond faster to posts which aren't filled with insults at my intelligence, experience, self-perception, or that slander an enter type from which my future spouse will allegedly come, even if I intend to address the arguments in the decorum-less posts eventually. . . .You know, talking with respectful, curious, insightful people just piques my interest more than responding to presumptuous, rude posts. Crazy. I know. I have a six day work week and four jobs, I'm moving and I'm starting classes and throwing a party, and my back's a little achey, and I think I should stop hunching over my laptop, so I'm not about to list off the recent points of Pinocchio's I disagree with yet.

    nanashi
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    It's probably good you aren't going out on a date with Pinocchio, considering you aren't in the same quadra.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I had a dream I was telling the forum that I noticed that I have had a crush twice on a girl who was MBTI INTP, once in 8th grade and once in junior year in high school. Now I have a huge crush on someone who types as MBTI INTP and I type as INTp. I recall Maritsa commenting with one word, "SEE". @_@

    However, I would tend to enjoy the way nanashi lays out her arguments. I resonate with the idea that insulting posts should be discarded. Pinnochio has a tendency to adopt a very superior aire when he discusses socionics, as if the peasantry knoweth not the True Socionics. Nanashi makes no claim, hence I support her.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    I think the real jokes on user Pinnochio, he spends a lot of his life writing lengthy self absorbed posts that most people could care less about.

    I wouldn't really bother nanashi, he feeds off the attention, while offering nothing in return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Nothing more fortunate than a good example. This is what such people do all day and how they see others who simply disagree with them. All they want is to take you on their side, they don't give a shit about your type or your future. Because I retyped them, they want to exploit your potential sympathy with them, in their attempts to have a political majority.

    Check my posting history to see for yourself whether this [*censored*] is right about me or not.
    Well, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I've actually been considering putting you on my ignore list as you don't offer me anything, but I haven't yet partly because I haven't bothered, who knows i'll probably swing to it eventually.

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    This is quite interesting - we have natasha, an ILI who Pinnochio keeps saying he identifies with, an ILE - vero who Pinnochio sees as his contrary type. He doesn't see any of the LIIs as his mirror, has terrible relations with SEIs kamajama and munenori..Maybe the real issue here is Pinnochio is mistyped, leading to his confusion on socionic matters in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    95% lies. nanashi, if you're interested about it I can explain, otherwise I don't want to answer anymore to this troll.
    Yes cause that makes 8.55 of the things I said lies - quite a feat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    ...
    Actually here's (<----click)an interesting analysis of that story on a blog I read a while back. The characters are typed by the blogger. Thoughts? I totally think she's got Figaro, Geppetto, Honest John, and Gideon right. Not so sure about the Cricket.
    ...
    Oh, I have no idea. I saw that movie a long time ago as a child and would have to watch it again to say anything of relevant significance. But the analysis sounds pretty interesting and plausible from what I know.

    "Alpha is clearly used to represent sin, temptation, frivolousness, and deceit."
    "Fox child kidnapper/circus freak: ILE"
    Haha. I think I know why you pointed this out now with the picture I posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    ...
    However, I would tend to enjoy the way nanashi lays out her arguments. I resonate with the idea that insulting posts should be discarded. Pinnochio has a tendency to adopt a very superior aire when he discusses socionics, as if the peasantry knoweth not the True Socionics. Nanashi makes no claim, hence I support her.
    That's what makes ILE's so cute though. Everything they say is an attempt to see what various responses they get. If they kept themselves from being insulting they wouldn't be able to follow and confirm all the things their Ne sees. It's kind of hard to be insulted by it when you realize this. They just want to play . To prove this, when they insult you find a way to wittingly insult them back. Do you find them usually entertained instead of annoyed or angered? Consider it mostly a game , because they do.

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    There is nothing cute about Pinnochio's behavior. However, you don't need me to see that.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    But note, this is not a reason to not take them seriously, when required. I mean, truth is truth, no matter if there's a game or not, right? To acknowledge a joke is one thing, to label someone a joker and always dismiss what he says is different.

    I can't wait for your reasoning to conclude this ^
    He can show it just by looking at what you just said to me in the Sherlock Holmes thread

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    You asked her out on a date, Pinocchio ?

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    God you talk a lot of shit, Pinocchio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    But note, this is not a reason to not take them seriously, when required. I mean, truth is truth, no matter if there's a game or not, right?
    Truth is always negotiable. I think you know that better than most.

    To acknowledge a joke is one thing, to label someone a joker and always dismiss what he says is different.
    That's a fair point.

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    This is your creative Te speaking
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Definitely not, unless you talk about human ones - like art critique - or experimental conclusions. Considering that you think I'm good at this, I assume that you confuse presenting experimental conclusions with negotiation.

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    For the record (seriously that rumor could get him in trouble with his SO IRL), Pinocchio did not ask me on a date. I think this may have been misconstrued by people from the way I presented that he respected my post and was insisting I am like him. I think people noticed that I was trying to say he was personally invested in, or making an emotional response his basis for, his argument that I'm ILE. That wouldn't make me his dual, anyway.

    I can personally say that finding another NT is a very emotional experience. (ugh. I said that) I think the infrequency of the camaraderie is what adds to our delight in finding a like-mind.

    Plus, ILE and ILI psyches ARE organized the same way, so it's perfectly understandable someone could get cues of the way my mind works and get the false idea I'm ILE.

    I do not doubt his ENTp typing very seriously, especially because his not valuing Fi indicates polar , and I recognize his arguing style from my best friend's. This degeneration of conversation we've been having also occurs with my ILE ex-boyfriend/coworker constantly over the exact same things: I am sensitive to his public ridicule of me or public false accusations, he feels ignored and by my withdrawal and sensitivity. He shows he respects me and, in a way, seems to be asking why I can't be more like his dual or himself. 'Why is this ILI so sensitive and withholding?' That would be dual seeking and polar. I don't like being slandered in front of "the group." I can't recover from that very well. It's a lot of effort. I also don't like strained relations ( DS), so I withdrew. I love arguing points. I love discussion. I feel alive with brain exercise, but I hate ad feminam attacks.

    I want Pinocchio to treat me with respect by not insulting me. He wants me to answer him. I withdraw because I find talking with him distasteful IF HE USES DEROGATORY PUT-DOWNS AND NAME-CALLING, even if some of what he says seems sweet and indicates he's reaching out. I don't wanna play with someone who says I'm stupid because I don't see the world the way he does. I don't wanna play with someone who displays his arrogance and is harsh to me.I see a glimmer of an interesting online friend in Pinocchio lately. It doesn't change the fact that answering his rude posts from before is just work, and not exciting work...cleaning out port-o-potties kinda work. I still want to answer them, but they're soul-destroyingly unpleasant to me. GUYS, I am SOOOOO -seeking. It's got to be apparent to Pinocchio now. I mean I'm letting my inner sensitivity come out and talk.

    You can see throughout our entire exchange, what is highlighted in the post by Pinocchio at the bottom of this paragraph: nanashi has DS and Pinocchio has DS. For example, I wanted him to not insult me nor to be arrogant. I withdrew, in typical ILI fashion. He didn't stop posting (total ILE) and said I was being "disrespectful" by not answering his rude posts. I was not responding for a looong time. He asked if it would help if he split up the insults and the points he's interested in. [it definitely would, but I'm not sure he'd collect everything, and I want to be vindicated on all accounts.]I like the olive branch he's holding out there (Fi-seeking), but the truth is I'm on here for good conversation and the distaste I have for the domineering arrogance and disrespect for my intelligence and my experience in his previous posts is anathema to me.I have this idea of collecting all he said and responding to it, and I can see myself doing it, but not tonight. It's hot. I'm packing. I have work again in the morning and I just got off. I have to go out of town for work and clean my house for my landlord. I mean, just look at this and point out where you see DS and DS:
    Pinocchio:"So just in case you think that this is what motivates me to trust that I'm superior in Socionics understanding than you, think again. I think I'm superior because I simply think I'm right and you're wrong in many cases, which I tried to demonstrate previously, but you ignorantly overlooked. It's clear to me that you refuse to face the truth because of your adamant convictions, when I try to point them out in you, your reasoning shuts down with the message "error: this guy is trying to offend me".

    The error message comment is nanashi's -desire being observed by Pinocchio's Fe-valuing mind.


    It also bothers me (nanashi) that he'll just say something IS that he can't even know. It bothers me BECAUSE I have . I find this with my friends and family a lot. He says I am ILE. He says I hate men because I'm egalitarian and was talking about previous bad experiences with one sexist ex. (BTW, most of my close friends are guys, and one said I'm actually sexist toward women--even baby girls--because I want them to work so hard and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and will coddle men in contrast. I agree that, sadly, there has been truth to this at times. It is shameful and something I need to work on.)





    I'm thinking of adopting a policy of only answering posts devoid of attacks on my intelligence until I (possibly) go back to the rude ones and sift through the garbage for the points I disagree with.


    I loved this forum's discussion, which is why I joined. I'm disappointed in the insults and thoughtlessness our actions are sometimes degenerating into.
    Last edited by nanashi; 06-27-2010 at 07:01 AM. Reason: I repeated myself in a non-concise way before
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    Plus, ILE and ILI psyches ARE organized the same way, so it's perfectly understandable someone could get cues of the way my mind works and get the false idea I'm ILE.
    I want to second this opinion as something that kept me from figuring out my type for months when I started learning. There are tons of differences, of course, but subtle similarities that are hard to overlook.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    For the record (seriously that rumor could get him in trouble with his SO IRL), Pinocchio did not ask me on a date.
    Ah yes, we don't want that.

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    ILIs and ILEs are most likely to find each other similar if the are dominant subtypes.

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