Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Beta quadra opinion on victim blaming

  1. #1
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Beta quadra opinion on victim blaming

    I do it quiet a lot. All the time really. I just can't help but think that if some one has problems it's their own fault for not taking care of them or fixing them. I mean if your not strong enough mentally or emotionally to take care of yourself, why should I care about your problems?

    I dunno, I know it's wrong but it still get frustrated with people who complain about their circumstances, or their problems as if it's completely out of the realm of their control.
    Easy Day

  2. #2
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    It depends on what happened. You're right though, people do play the victim and complain too much when it's their own doing.

  3. #3
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,469
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I do it quiet a lot. All the time really. I just can't help but think that if some one has problems it's their own fault for not taking care of them or fixing them. I mean if your not strong enough mentally or emotionally to take care of yourself, why should I care about your problems?

    I dunno, I know it's wrong but it still get frustrated with people who complain about their circumstances, or their problems as if it's completely out of the realm of their control.
    Hm, yeah I noticed this a lot in Betas. Definitely not in all of them.

    I do the opposite. I try to look for someone's potential abilities (not necessarily what's he's presented so far), and if there's a hindrance or obstacle blocking him, I want to help remove it. I don't really respect people who mistreat the weak, and I tend to see them as cruel, too pre-occupied with short-term results and too stupid to see the big picture.

    (No offense).

    [EDIT: other quadras aren't exactly off the hook btw.]
    Last edited by xerx; 06-19-2010 at 11:35 PM.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  4. #4
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't have weak Ni! God. I love you and you're endearing but please. Stooooop.

  5. #5
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I don't have weak Ni! God. I love you and you're endearing but please. Stooooop.
    Ok
    I will stop

  6. #6
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I do it quiet a lot. All the time really. I just can't help but think that if some one has problems it's their own fault for not taking care of them or fixing them. I mean if your not strong enough mentally or emotionally to take care of yourself, why should I care about your problems?

    I dunno, I know it's wrong but it still get frustrated with people who complain about their circumstances, or their problems as if it's completely out of the realm of their control.
    Not type-related. Who wouldn't get frustrated with people like that!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  7. #7
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  8. #8
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The guy in that video is a douchebag Fe-nonvaluer who needs to get over himself, because not everybody is quiet and not everybody likes quiet people. Sheesh.

    @JCW3, eh, I get that, and I see it a lot from Beta STs (and Se-egos in general, really). But there's definitely nothing wrong with being irritated by people who complain too much about their problems, make excuses for everything, etc. That said, sympathy is a good thing, so sometimes you do kinda have to let them whine. On the other other hand, sometimes you gotta know who to whine to and who not to whine to. Beta STs generally =/= the right person to whine to. And whining is (usually) counterproductive. Shrug.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  9. #9
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    sometimes you gotta know who to whine to and who not to whine to
    yup.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  10. #10
    star stuff April's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    chatbox
    TIM
    NG human sorcerer
    Posts
    917
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    This could easily turn into a discussion of free will and locus of control, but that would be quite an undertaking and a path down which I do not wish to walk.

    I'd just like to state that I understand this viewpoint, yet at the same time, I find it upsetting. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it feels like kicking somebody while they're down and not bothering to consider the full impact of individual and life circumstances. It's easy to blame the victim and assume that people should always have the strength to help themselves. It's more comfortable living in a world where if people would just pick themselves up by their own bootstraps, they would be able accomplish anything. It's the American way, after all, goddamn it.

    Don't get me wrong--your position has its place. It inspires people (who evidently have the ability to do so) to become better versions of themselves. On the flip side, it can seem like the opposite approach would be enabling the victim. But I prefer, what I perceive to be, a more balanced approach that doesn't downplay the significance of external factors and overemphasize the single aspect of personal strength.

    It's my view that early experiences and inborn characteristics set an individual on a certain "life trajectory." You can imagine it as a graph starting from zero and taking a turn for positive or negative numbers from there. Factors such as poverty, health problems, family system problems, chemical brain imbalance, etc. starts individuals down a path where they are likely to encounter more and more problems. Personal strength and positive outside factors can make your "number" more positive, but that number is being weighed against all of the other variables affecting the net. Essentially, one shouldn't ignore the context of the entire graph.

    Finally, the original posts suggests that personal strength is what determines one's self worth with the statement, "...if your (sic) not strong enough mentally or emotionally to take care of yourself, why should I care about your problems?" Sure, you can perceive another person's self worth however you want. I'll keep operating under the idea that, in general, people deserve respect, empathy and contain great human potential that must be nurtured.

  11. #11
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    TIM
    IEI 4-6-9 apparently
    Posts
    2,744
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    @JCW3, eh, I get that, and I see it a lot from Beta STs (and Se-egos in general, really). But there's definitely nothing wrong with being irritated by people who complain too much about their problems, make excuses for everything, etc. That said, sympathy is a good thing, so sometimes you do kinda have to let them whine. On the other other hand, sometimes you gotta know who to whine to and who not to whine to. Beta STs generally =/= the right person to whine to. And whining is (usually) counterproductive. Shrug.
    Yeah, SLEs I know do that a lot, they seem to think everyone has the same level of self-control as them and therefore if they can be in control of their lives so easily, everyone else would be able to too. And yet they're fine with IEI whining. Wtf. SLEs are weird.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  12. #12
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I do it quiet a lot. All the time really. I just can't help but think that if some one has problems it's their own fault for not taking care of them or fixing them. I mean if your not strong enough mentally or emotionally to take care of yourself, why should I care about your problems?

    I dunno, I know it's wrong but it still get frustrated with people who complain about their circumstances, or their problems as if it's completely out of the realm of their control.
    Oh really? What if you're born crippled? Down syndrome? What if your family dies in an accident when you're 5 and you don't have anyone taking care of you? Etc. etc. etc.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  13. #13
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Oh really? What if you're born crippled? Down syndrome? What if your family dies in an accident when you're 5 and you don't have anyone taking care of you? Etc. etc. etc.
    Oh shut the fuck up and go be a good boy in real life, you well-programmed sack of shit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  14. #14
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,097
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The only purpose blame serves is to find who must give reparations. Blaming the victim makes no sense because giving yourself compensation makes no sense. In a nature vs man scenario, there is no agent to blame, so yes, they must deal with what was given to them. If you are talking about a man vs man scenario, blaming the victim is the same as patting the aggressor on the back, which is immoral at best.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  15. #15
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    Yeah, SLEs I know do that a lot, they seem to think everyone has the same level of self-control as them and therefore if they can be in control of their lives so easily, everyone else would be able to too. And yet they're fine with IEI whining. Wtf. SLEs are weird.
    Yeah, I was gonna say that. If you whine in the right way (overdramatic to the point of being fake generally does it), they usually don't mind so much. I know when I whine I'm simultaneously making fun of myself for whining, so maybe that makes it okay? Anyway, it is funny.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  16. #16
    IEI- UK IEI's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    341
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Yeah, I was gonna say that. If you whine in the right way (overdramatic to the point of being fake generally does it), they usually don't mind so much. I know when I whine I'm simultaneously making fun of myself for whining, so maybe that makes it okay? Anyway, it is funny.
    yep, ever so dramatic... bowed head, small shuffling steps, quivering lip and eyes welling up with tears

  17. #17
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    The guy in that video is a douchebag Fe-nonvaluer who needs to get over himself, because not everybody is quiet and not everybody likes quiet people. Sheesh.
    That's interesting, since I type him INTj.

    He could be some sort of a Delta Rational, I guess.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  18. #18
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IEI View Post
    yep, ever so dramatic... bowed head, small shuffling steps, quivering lip and eyes welling up with tears
    Aw shit! Who made you cry this time? You want I should punch some face? I can totally punch some face.
    Easy Day

  19. #19
    Logical vegetable Existential Potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    The guy in that video is a douchebag Fe-nonvaluer who needs to get over himself, because not everybody is quiet and not everybody likes quiet people. Sheesh.
    You don't like him huh?

  20. #20
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    silverchris is a drama queen.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  21. #21
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    silverchris is a drama queen.
    Not as much, really. I could definitely behave in a way that would be amenable to that silly person in that video. But I wouldn't want to, and I would want to defend my drama queen friends when he started lecturing them. People don't like overanalyzing hyper-rationalists either, douche.

    Aw shit! Who made you cry this time? You want I should punch some face? I can totally punch some face.
    So I guess the trick is you have to go so overboard with the whining that the SLE feels the need to take action on your behalf. That way, everybody gets what they want: the SLE doesn't feel that there's pointless inaction, and the IEI doesn't actually have to *do* anything about their problem. Ah, the mysteries of duality.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  22. #22
    IEI- UK IEI's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    341
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Aw shit! Who made you cry this time? You want I should punch some face? I can totally punch some face.
    And joy returns safe in the knowledge that offenders will be adequately punished

  23. #23
    dinki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    IEI!
    Posts
    623
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I do it quiet a lot. All the time really. I just can't help but think that if some one has problems it's their own fault for not taking care of them or fixing them. I mean if your not strong enough mentally or emotionally to take care of yourself, why should I care about your problems?

    I dunno, I know it's wrong but it still get frustrated with people who complain about their circumstances, or their problems as if it's completely out of the realm of their control.

    This is definitely most common in betas. It's fine if someone just expresses themselves about a shitty situation - if they are working on it or can't change it. But I hate when betas get really worked up and just bitch and bitch, especially when they don't even have any real problems. It's the worst with IEIs because (or just E4s);
    they are good at manipulating you so will make you feel like a bitch for telling them to calm down.
    they are normally 4 victims so don't take responsibility for anything.
    all they do is bitch and moan.

    Shut the fuck up and deal with it. This was just one IEI. But he nearly put me off for life.

    I've only seen it in betas. And some SEE girl.
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

  24. #24
    systm919's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    paterson, nj
    Posts
    27
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I do it quiet a lot. All the time really. I just can't help but think that if some one has problems it's their own fault for not taking care of them or fixing them. I mean if your not strong enough mentally or emotionally to take care of yourself, why should I care about your problems?

    I dunno, I know it's wrong but it still get frustrated with people who complain about their circumstances, or their problems as if it's completely out of the realm of their control.
    As harsh as how you react to people who complain may seem. It does the IEI some good. We want to be taken seriously but not too seriously. The help we need to take care of our problems usually is just motivation.

  25. #25
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by systm919 View Post
    As harsh as how you react to people who complain may seem. It does the IEI some good. We want to be taken seriously but not too seriously. The help we need to take care of our problems usually is just motivation.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •