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Thread: Delta functions are SOOOO lame (please read)

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    Default Delta functions are SOOOO lame (please read)

    Socionics :: Information Elements

    Te: External dynamics of objects. Objects in motion. Efficiency, productivity (just get a job fag etc.)

    I notice when I go for a walk, I absolutely *hate* how often outside objects are moving, especially in American society. It drives me bonkers, drains me of my psychic energy and I have a hard time concentrating. I notice other types this just doesnít bother them they filter it out in ways I canít seem to. Even if there are things Iíd like to do, Iím too drained by the journey and how everything is moving to even bother caring.

    Ne: Internal statics of objects. Potentiality of objects.

    This is annoying to me because Ne-valuing types put too much emphasis on how much outside places and institutions will effect my internal states. Ne-types will give a lot of potentials and possibilities to help me but I already know intuitively if something will work or not with my Ni, so they annoy me with their suggestions. I prefer the Ni way in that I already know intuitively how all their suggestions will work out so itís more a matter of looking in each object deeper and what choice will be the lesser of all evils for me. In fact I hated the gay childhood shows on TV so much that preached to me that in order for me to know if I liked something or not I had to do it. Thatís just not fucking true AT ALL for me, itís just some annoying Ne-clichť.

    Itís also annoying for me to get Ne because Iím already so good at Ne. I just donít really talk about it or Ďactivateí it like Ne-types do.

    Si: External dynamics of fields. Tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time.

    I notice a lot of creative writing teachers tried to make me more Si then I thought was necessary. Although I know itís important in writing to show and donít tell, and to use more nouns and verbs, I always felt that describing physical sensations took away from what was happening. Who fucking cares how specifically and exactly good the carrot cake tasted or how well you described the living room. Se is just blunt and better to me. When people say Si comments I find them Ďinterestingí but I also am always like ĎAnd the point isÖ.í Although I do need to have more physical context in my stories, Iíd never do them in a Si way because they always want to go annoyingly more deeper into it then I feel is necessary.

    Fi: Internal statics of fields. Subjective relationships between objects.

    The only part of this that really bothers me (usually itís boring to me and very demonstrative-function-like) is the moral judgement part of Fi which only really comes into play if itís a valued function. Like all the times in Starr deltas criticized me for drawing pictures of naked men throat fucking each other or women being beat up. They saw me as the bad guy when really the cool people knew I was just a laid-back guy that liked making friends. They tried to punish me for it because I offended them so much. When Deltas get all morally offended and on a Ďfi-rampageí I find it both amusing and silly and I just sort of let them self-destruct with that.

    Of course, Starr is an extreme example of unhealthy Betas and unhealthy Deltas pissing each other off royally, but still it fits. Iím reading this and wow. It really does work!

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    Well then, it is settled. Jung is ILI.

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    I'm much more into women throat fucking each other and men getting beat up. I'd probably be offended too.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    I liked them all, but I thought Ne was the weakest one.

    I also consider this ridiculous focus on sensory details to the exclusion of any meaning whatsoever, show don't tell (which, again, is useful to a point but sometimes Shakespeare tells, and Victor Hugo does nothing but tell, so don't act like it can't be done), no adjectives business to be the work of evil evil deltas misinterpreting Walt Whitman (a clear beta who nevertheless uses LOADS of adjectives) and William Carlos Williams (who actually was probably beta but his slogans have been taken up as delta catchphrases. No ideas but in things my ass.)

    I've never had issues with moving objects. I can't focus on how they move, you're right, but if I just walk and notice/feel them moving it's just all part of the landscape. Plus... hot women running = moving object(s), and I see nothing wrong with that.

    Fi is great and useful and stuff, just not my preferred way of seeing the world. But I can totally acknowledge and appreciate its value for other people. Fi-polr fails are still hilarious and awesome though. My white SLE friend asked me the other day if he should ask forgiveness for telling people that he has a black friend (me) as proof that he's not racist. lol. I mean, no, but that's hilarious that you do that.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Functions cannot be of a quadra. Information elements can be arranged in certain functional orderings, which make up a quadra. but functions are the slots the elements fit into, they don't change.

    Socionic Model of the Psyche


    This is more like a blog post than anything else.
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    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Functions cannot be of a quadra. Information elements can be arranged in certain functional orderings, which make up a quadra. but functions are the slots the elements fit into, they don't change.

    Socionic Model of the Psyche


    This is more like a blog post than anything else.
    Your sharing is acknowledged.
    ...yeah, I know... but you know what he means. Sigh. I suppose your post and his post are actually the same thing... that is, entirely perspectivized, reactions to interquadra annoyances...

    Objectivity isn't always the goal. One can learn as much from a subjectivized perspective as from an actual objective description.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Functions cannot be of a quadra. Information elements can be arranged in certain functional orderings, which make up a quadra. but functions are the slots the elements fit into, they don't change.
    Let's imagine it's +Te, -Ne, -Si and +Fi. There, you have quadra functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Functions cannot be of a quadra. Information elements can be arranged in certain functional orderings, which make up a quadra. but functions are the slots the elements fit into, they don't change.
    Yea but every member of a particular quadra values the same exact set of 4 functions and devalues the same exact set of 4 functions.

    You mix this with clubs in which every memeber of a particular club is strong with the same set of 4 functions and is weak with the same set of 4 functions.

    Then you sort out the order by sorting out producing or accepting.

    Then you build up the type.

    Now you have built up a personality type in the other direction and it is now the quadra which makes up the functional orderings of the information elements.

    Is it the bricks that produce the wall or the wall that produces the bricks.... its all a matter of perspective.... aka bullshit.

    Is an ILE an Irrational Alpha NT

    or is an Irrational Alpha NT an ILE

    or are both a Merry Ne Leading

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    Does Te have to do with objects in motion?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Does Te have to do with objects in motion?
    According to the link he provided both Fe and Te are about objects in motion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    According to the link he provided both Fe and Te are about objects in motion.
    Seems like it's implying that only Te is about external motion though.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Socionics :: Information Elements

    Si: External dynamics of fields. Tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time.

    I notice a lot of creative writing teachers tried to make me more Si then I thought was necessary. Although I know itís important in writing to show and donít tell, and to use more nouns and verbs, I always felt that describing physical sensations took away from what was happening. Who fucking cares how specifically and exactly good the carrot cake tasted or how well you described the living room. Se is just blunt and better to me. When people say Si comments I find them Ďinterestingí but I also am always like ĎAnd the point isÖ.í Although I do need to have more physical context in my stories, Iíd never do them in a Si way because they always want to go annoyingly more deeper into it then I feel is necessary.
    I think Si when writing is mainly seen as the sound of the words and the rhythm of the text on the paper/screen. Maybe also some kind of "text hygiene". Keeping it simple and neat. I sometimes focus too much on how my writings sound and not enough on what they mean.

    But things happen on many levels when writing so I think that you're partially right that Si can also be used when describing sensations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    (just get a job fag etc.)


    I notice when I go for a walk, I absolutely *hate* how often outside objects are moving, especially in American society. It drives me bonkers, drains me of my psychic energy and I have a hard time concentrating. I notice other types this just doesnít bother them they filter it out in ways I canít seem to. Even if there are things Iíd like to do, Iím too drained by the journey and how everything is moving to even bother caring.
    See, I hate it when I'm still and there are things moving around me. When I am still, I want the whole world to be still, for there to be no motion, so I can either have full concentration on what I am focusing on, or so I can study whatever it is out there I want to study completely, without interruption. But I absolutely love driving, especially driving around other people. Driving fast is fun. Fuck my insurance company.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Let's imagine it's +Te, -Ne, -Si and +Fi. There, you have quadra functions.
    I think he means the difference between "function" and "information element"

    As per the OP, I think all your examples are bad ones. I don't think Te is literally about physical objects that move, "in order for me to know if I liked something or not I had to do it" isn't an Ne slogan, whoever taught you "show don't tell" is seems to be missing the point, and not all deltas are super uptight.
    Last edited by stanprollyright; 06-15-2010 at 05:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I liked them all, but I thought Ne was the weakest one.

    I also consider this ridiculous focus on sensory details to the exclusion of any meaning whatsoever, show don't tell (which, again, is useful to a point but sometimes Shakespeare tells, and Victor Hugo does nothing but tell, so don't act like it can't be done), no adjectives business to be the work of evil evil deltas misinterpreting Walt Whitman (a clear beta who nevertheless uses LOADS of adjectives) and William Carlos Williams (who actually was probably beta but his slogans have been taken up as delta catchphrases. No ideas but in things my ass.)

    I've never had issues with moving objects. I can't focus on how they move, you're right, but if I just walk and notice/feel them moving it's just all part of the landscape. Plus... hot women running = moving object(s), and I see nothing wrong with that.

    Fi is great and useful and stuff, just not my preferred way of seeing the world. But I can totally acknowledge and appreciate its value for other people. Fi-polr fails are still hilarious and awesome though. My white SLE friend asked me the other day if he should ask forgiveness for telling people that he has a black friend (me) as proof that he's not racist. lol. I mean, no, but that's hilarious that you do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I think he means the difference between "function" and "information element"

    As per the OP, I think all your examples are bad ones. I don't think Te is literally about physical objects that move, "in order for me to know if I liked something or not I had to do it" isn't an Ne slogan, whoever taught you "show don't tell" is seems to be missing the point, and not all deltas are super uptight.
    You're right... I avoid using the word in this meaning but it exists nonetheless.

    I agree with the other point about Te and Ne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    My white SLE friend asked me the other day if he should ask forgiveness for telling people that he has a black friend (me) as proof that he's not racist. lol. I mean, no, but that's hilarious that you do that.
    What a surprise! I thought you looked like your avatar, white old man, with a beard. Seriously, I did. Even though you've said that you're young. Why do I believe in the subjective connections that my mind make? Te polr?

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    Somebody please translate to me what Stan is saying about Te and Se... (Maritsa is experiencing Mirror relation type misunderstand)

    Thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Somebody please translate to me what Stan is saying about Te and Se... (Maritsa is experiencing Mirror relation type misunderstand)

    Thank you
    He said he likes beer and that he is afraid of turning yellow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    My white SLE friend asked me the other day if he should ask forgiveness for telling people that he has a black friend (me) as proof that he's not racist. lol.
    wth?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Ne-typeswill give a lot of potentials and possibilities to help me but I already know intuitively if something will work or not with my Ni, so they annoy me with their suggestions. I prefer the Ni way in that I already know intuitively how all their suggestions will work out so itís more a matter of looking in each object deeper and what choice will be the lesser of all evils for me.
    This has been an issue between my IEE mom and me. If I tell her about a problem, she immediately starts brainstorming solutions. Usually they're things I've already thought of and things that seem obvious and I've already run through them and know exactly why they won't work. But if I express this to her, it makes me look like a naysayer and also like I'm somehow not appreciating her suggestions. So I've learned, for the sake of our relationship, try to to bite my tongue when that happens. But better yet, I stop talking about problems altogether. Which, in a way is kind of sad given the fact that she's my mom. But it's easier than dealing with all that Ne.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    He said he likes beer and that he is afraid of turning yellow.
    It was actually goldenrod, but close enough.
    Stan is not my real name.

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    This has been an issue between my IEE mom and me. If I tell her about a problem, she immediately starts brainstorming solutions. Usually they're things I've already thought of and things that seem obvious and I've already run through them and know exactly why they won't work. But if I express this to her, it makes me look like a naysayer and also like I'm somehow not appreciating her suggestions. So I've learned, for the sake of our relationship, try to to bite my tongue when that happens. But better yet, I stop talking about problems altogether. Which, in a way is kind of sad given the fact that she's my mom. But it's easier than dealing with all that Ne.
    I know what that feels like. =(

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    Does Te have to do with objects in motion?
    Yes. This is NOT negotiable or the theory doesn't work.

    Objectivity isn't always the goal. One can learn as much from a subjectivized perspective as from an actual objective description.
    Oh stop it. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

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    Well, I hope you encounter better Delta relations in the future, I've had my own frustrating long-term Beta relations I couldn't get out of. Hopefully some of us on here can show Beta that Delta members aren't so bad and we can get long just fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Yes. This is NOT negotiable or the theory doesn't work.
    Keeping in mind, of course, that external dynamic of objects has about as much to do with physical motion as internal dynamic of objects with bodily processes, such as digestion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    See, I hate it when I'm still and there are things moving around me. When I am still, I want the whole world to be still, for there to be no motion, so I can either have full concentration on what I am focusing on, or so I can study whatever it is out there I want to study completely, without interruption. But I absolutely love driving, especially driving around other people. Driving fast is fun. Fuck my insurance company.
    I try to be independant with the whole still/moving thing. If everyones all still and proper and I'm required to move, I find a way to move regardless of the vibe in the room... while if everyone is moving around me and I need to relax I find a way to shut it out. Without that independance I find I go crazy because of how frantic it is out in public.

    As for the driving I love driving fast also, but I have a distaste for it in other people. Ideally driving fast should be fluid and graceful, in other words people should do it like a pro, most often peoples energy on the road is frantic/nervous/sociopathic/clueless/selfish. Thats really not fun, but you can use their annoying ways against them.

    Like say there is a frantic driver who changes lanes alot real quick to gain the advantage in traffic and they are really annoying you, most people face this challenge by tailgating the guy into submission when they wish to pass.... this is the technique of stupid/frantic/nervous/sociopathic/clueless/selfish drivers. What you do is stay back, watch, wait for the traffic to present an oppurtunity then strike, on approach to the nervous twitchy lane changer.... signal in the direction you actually don't wish to go, instead signal to a direction that you want them to go. Say the guy is in the middle and both the right and left lanes are open. Signal to the left, but instead to go right. More often than not, if the guy is that certain breed of asshole he will reactively shoot into the left lane to prevent you from taking this because he isn't thinking, in his head he is thinking, I want to take what other people want, he has no plan of his own besides gaining advantage through other people. He is defensive, reactive, and easily fooled. So then once he is self-satifyingly in the left lane, swoop the right in one fluid motion, barrel through a set of traffic (the oppurtunity you were waiting for) and then all the other drivers will be offended, they will start driving aggresively and they will close any oppurtunities the guy now in the left lane has at getting around you. He will grow angry and tailgate and they will tear each other apart metaphorically speaking because they are too stupid/frantic/nervous/sociopathic/clueless/selfish.

    So yea, that specific situation actually happened to me, and I could see the guy tailgating people behind me... it was his own fault for driving reactive and competitively, if he had been minding his own business instead of trying to compete I would have had no weapon to use against him.

    Anyways I love driving fast and all, the sensation of speed, but competitive driving, I just fuck around with people that do that by using my head rather than my throttle, I do it completely legally all I do is use their nervous/twitchy/aggresiveness against them. Sometimes I don't have the oppurtunity to fuck with asshole drivers, in which case I just ignore them. Also not all "competive" driving is bad, no problem with racing, just in certain specific instances where a person on a road is being an abusvie type A asshole driver to people minding their own business.

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    haha, awesome about the driving.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Oh stop it. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
    ...maybe...
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    Well, I hope you encounter better Delta relations in the future, I've had my own frustrating long-term Beta relations I couldn't get out of. Hopefully some of us on here can show Beta that Delta members aren't so bad and we can get long just fine
    or maybe they can't. and that's okay

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    Deltas aren't bad. Incompatible socionics relations, rather like any number of other factors, make a given relationship more difficult, not necessarily worse. Incompatible socionics just makes things difficult at such a fundamental level that for one's most intimate relations (and I don't just mean boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/sexual partner, but also close friend/best friend/BFFaeaeaeae), it is far more comfortable to have a more compatible socionics relation.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Ne-typeswill give a lot of potentials and possibilities to help me but I already know intuitively if something will work or not with my Ni, so they annoy me with their suggestions. I prefer the Ni way in that I already know intuitively how all their suggestions will work out so it’s more a matter of looking in each object deeper and what choice will be the lesser of all evils for me.
    This has been an issue between my IEE mom and me. If I tell her about a problem, she immediately starts brainstorming solutions. Usually they're things I've already thought of and things that seem obvious and I've already run through them and know exactly why they won't work. But if I express this to her, it makes me look like a naysayer and also like I'm somehow not appreciating her suggestions. So I've learned, for the sake of our relationship, try to to bite my tongue when that happens. But better yet, I stop talking about problems altogether. Which, in a way is kind of sad given the fact that she's my mom. But it's easier than dealing with all that Ne.

    Too familiar.

    did someone mention silverchris as being IEE? Is iei fe really that different?

  34. #34
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Do I throw out solutions to people's problems?
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Do I throw out solutions to people's problems?
    hm, kinda?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matilda View Post
    or maybe they can't. and that's okay
    I think its has more to do with individual people rather than Socionics. It shouldn't be an "us vs them" strictly in a Socionics context.

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    I think its has more to do with individual people rather than Socionics. It shouldn't be an "us vs them" strictly in a Socionics context.
    I wouldn't say more than - two well adjusted people can just not like each other due in large part to socionical reasons, which I have seen happen a decent amount of times
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    I wouldn't say more than - two well adjusted people can just not like each other due in large part to socionical reasons, which I have seen happen a decent amount of times
    Socionics is meant to bring awareness to thinking and communication differences. If you're aware of communication differences, and are a well adjusted people who want to communicate with another, you won't dislike the other person because nothing about them is malicious or intentionally difficult. I would say you wouldn't be a well adjusted person if you knew why there are communication problems and how to fix them, but decide not to and instead dislike the other person.

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    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    Socionics is meant to bring awareness to thinking and communication differences. If you're aware of communication differences, and are a well adjusted people who want to communicate with another, you won't dislike the other person because nothing about them is malicious or intentionally difficult. I would say you wouldn't be a well adjusted person if you knew why there are communication problems and how to fix them, but decide not to and instead dislike the other person.
    you know a reason why some of your posts irritate me is because they are incredibly unrealistic - I suppose this is my reaction to your use of Ne

    what you suggest here is ridiculous to me. to judge solely by intent and thinking that the power of communication and good intentions will make every relationship work is retarded and heavily theoretical.

    in real life it doesnt work like that, you default to your base functions and conflicting types get annoyed. sometimes you may not like people; and it may be better to distance yourself from certain people because of these things, if even strictly for socionical reasons. wanting to fix certain problems doesnt neccessarily make it possible to do so. compromise leads you away from your most natural preferred state; which may be fine and even helpful for growth to a degree. however with certain intertypes(conflictors), the gap you have to bridge is sometimes(often) too far apart. in situations where this can not be bridged, doing what you suggest is heavily destructive. .

    we aren't going to like everyone we come across, and we wont be able to work with everyone we come across, thats part of life. struggling against that will bring misery in certain cases. drawing the distinctions in where a relationship can be saved and where it cant is the mark of someone mature - not naivety in a failing relationship.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    we aren't going to like everyone we come across, and we wont be able to work with everyone we come across, thats part of life. struggling against that will bring misery in certain cases. drawing the distinctions in where a relationship can be saved and where it cant is the mark of someone mature - not naivety in a failing relationship.
    Of course not, I don't think I'm going to be friends with everyone, though, I wouldn't dislike someone based solely on Socionics reasoning. I would be more/less inclined to interact with someone based on personality and how they made me feel. I don't think my ideas are unrealistic, I think you take them to an unrealistic plane. I'm not looking to be buddy-buddy with every single person I meet, but if I'm going to be working with someone, or they will be involved in my life for whatever amount of time, or I just like them, and there happens to be communication issues, if I'm aware of them, why wouldn't I want to solve them if I know it is going to persist? Especially when I know a person has an honest intent, I want to understand where they can come from. If two people agree on the same thing, but their Socionics values have them communicate it in the opposite manner they expect, should they dislike each other? Of course not, that's silly.

    This is how Socionics is applicable to me, and what annoys you in my posts is that I'm trying to make Socionics applicable. I see it as applicable by using it for communication and interpersonal conflicts, because that's what it was made for. We have listings of different interactions of different types and value camps, what else are they for? Some people use them to predict, others use them for diagnosis, others prefer not to use it in a real-world person to person level.

    Honestly, I feel like you (personally, not because of type necessarily) think in extremes, and apply these extremes to other people. Whenever you reply to my posts, you throw me across a binary in opposition to you, and I'm not painting that sort of picture at all. On a day-to-day basis, I'm not looking around at good intent and think "the power of communication" will solve all problems. But all the people you come to enjoy in life won't necessarily be your dual, and even then, you need to be aware of communication and thought process differences to work through conflict. And this isn't an "avoid conflict at all costs" idea either, but basically just trying to understand one another.
    Last edited by Mattie; 06-17-2010 at 05:10 AM.

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