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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Classic Alpha-Gamma conflict, with Deltas stuck in the middle.

    Jake - SEI-Si 9w8 so/sp
    Neytiri - SLI-Si 8w7 sx/so
    Etukan - LSE-Te 8w9 sp/so
    Moat - EII-Fi 1w2 sx/sp
    Tsu'Tey - LSE-Si 3w2 so/sp
    Colonel Quaritch- SEE-Se 8w7 sx/so
    Parker - LIE-Ni 3w4 sp/so
    Dr. Grace - ILE-Ti 6w5 sx/sp
    Norm - ILE-Ne 6w7 so/sx
    Trudy - SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/so

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    They forgot to give the natives nasty disease blankets.

    I though overall the movie was dumb, but not unlikely to happen.
    The "gammas" weren't smart enough to just build a efficient fucking extractor machine and drill from the side without being total assholes. This shits worth way more than oil...they can afford some safety measures too unlike BP.
    Is this the devalued Ne? And also the realization that the fricking tree is the planet and the uniqueness of it, is priceless and the tech you could make from studying the peoples connection is worth whole lot more than short sighted ore drilling?

    Explain some of your typings

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Just generalized impressions. They are movie characters, after all.

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    Yeah this movie sucked and was a shitty tech demo. Like the new star wars giving rise to lord of the rings.
    I'm guessing by trailers of pocohontas that it had better character development and acting.
    People love there crappy tech demo while getting fat and gross.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    The Skypeople might be Betas...especially how they call foreigners "insane"

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    The only typings I don't agree with, not cause thier wrong just cause I need to see the movie again before I can commit to anything is Jake and Neytiri. If I recall correctly Jake seemed a little Serious for SEI, but that could just be Sam Worthington. That guy is a blank slate, no matter what he does the only thing you see on his face is what you put there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    The only typings I don't agree with, not cause thier wrong just cause I need to see the movie again before I can commit to anything is Jake and Neytiri. If I recall correctly Jake seemed a little Serious for SEI, but that could just be Sam Worthington.
    Well he's a marine. But for a marine, he's a little flimsy; down-to-earth, but a bit slow on the uptake. Hence Te PoLR.

    That guy is a blank slate, no matter what he does the only thing you see on his face is what you put there.
    Hence Si sub, E9.

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    Upon further reflection the Skypeople are clearly Deltas.

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    "That guy is a blank slate, no matter what he does the only thing you see on his face is what you put there. "
    Why would Si have this? There is something I'm missing here. Isn't worthington the person typed as LSI? Like lance armstrong?

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    Doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Doesn't mean his character is LSI, though.

    The "blank slate" nature of the character, which is different from the nearly nonexistent affect of the actor, is largely E9-related, though, and exactly why he was both perfect for the mission and ultimately successful in terms of "bringing balance" by reflecting his environment and seeking to be in harmony with it. Also the way he comes to embody the cultural ideals of the Skypeople by taming the Toruk is a classic example of integration to 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Classic Alpha-Gamma conflict...
    If you call it "classic" it must have been a subject in many other films too. Do you know any? Could you explain which interests of both quadras are typically conflicting? (I didn't watch the film, though. I heard it wasn't that good.)
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    Neytiri seemed more 4 than 8, sx dominant works.

    8's are too concerned with being fearful of other people, needing power, and this kind of mentality like life is tough and only the strong survive, there is no place for weakness in life. At best they are magnanimous leaders and strong protects, at worse they are paranoid sociopaths that harm others out of fear that another will hurt or exploit them.

    If Neytiri was an 8 she probably would have killed jake along with the animals and probably would have not gone onto a monologue about how it was tragic to kill the animals. An 8 would have just been like "thats life, the strong survive" or something.

    Neytiri seemed more 4 because she serves a special purpose in the tribe having a relationship with jake and being the daughter of the certain important tribe members. She stands out with alot of charisma in a 4 way, she obviously capitivates that need to be special and have something unique about her. She is also melancholy like a 4 when her tribe dies and she kills the animals, feeling empathy in overdrive. Further she tends to be attracted to jake, because he is new and different, once again reinforcing the eye 4's have for the unique/special/different.

    Any illusion of 8ness probably comes from the more visceral tribal vibe of the Navi culture.

    An eight is that colonel guy, and arguably the mohak navi. The colonel is a better example of an 8 though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    The "blank slate" nature of the character, which is different from the nearly nonexistent affect of the actor, is largely E9-related, though, and exactly why he was both perfect for the mission and ultimately successful in terms of "bringing balance" by reflecting his environment and seeking to be in harmony with it. Also the way he comes to embody the cultural ideals of the Skypeople by taming the Toruk is a classic example of integration to 3.
    It's not his character; Sam Worthington is like that in every movie I've seen with him. His facial expression never changes, but it's vague enough that the other emotional cues in the scene make it seem like he is acting.

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    Since you apparently didn't really read my post...

    When I say he's a "blank slate," I'm not speaking merely of his facial expressions, but also of the manner in which he easily falls into whatever role he is thrust into and doesn't seem to really have any particular motivations of his own. This is typical of E9s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    If you call it "classic" it must have been a subject in many other films too. Do you know any? Could you explain which interests of both quadras are typically conflicting? (I didn't watch the film, though. I heard it wasn't that good.)
    My meaning was closer to "archetypal," rather than "classic" in the traditional sense. However I would sincerely doubt that this is the only example of such an exchange of values in film: the obvious conflict is that of immediate benefit given by available, known resources, with actions dictated by established standards (Se+Te/Fi) vs. the undeveloped potential of naturally occurring phenomena, with actions dictated by compassion (Ne/Si+Fe).

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    Actually, watching the movie I felt like there wasn't a single Gamma character in it. I don't see the archetype, either (besides oversimplistic Gamma = money with total disregard for Fi-valuing).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    ...the obvious conflict is that of immediate benefit given by available, known resources, with actions dictated by established standards (Se+Te/Fi) vs. the undeveloped potential of naturally occurring phenomena, with actions dictated by compassion (Ne/Si+Fe).
    Thanks for your explanation. Of course, this isn't the only example for sure. Different values always create conflict, and this is probably most striking if there are opposing quadras involved. Films generally need conflict, so you'll often find those situations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    If you call it "classic" it must have been a subject in many other films too. Do you know any? Could you explain which interests of both quadras are typically conflicting? (I didn't watch the film, though. I heard it wasn't that good.)
    Pocahontas
    Dances with Wolves
    Plenty of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Since you apparently didn't really read my post...

    When I say he's a "blank slate," I'm not speaking merely of his facial expressions, but also of the manner in which he easily falls into whatever role he is thrust into and doesn't seem to really have any particular motivations of his own. This is typical of E9s.
    I assumed since you used Joe's terminology you were referring to his post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Actually, watching the movie I felt like there wasn't a single Gamma character in it. I don't see the archetype, either (besides oversimplistic Gamma = money with total disregard for Fi-valuing).
    Fi seems to take a backseat to Te ans Se surely, but the humans did try to get their unobtanium (dumbest name for a mineral ever) by diplomatic means and by building schools and whatnot.

    I basically agree with Gilly that the humans = Gamma and some Beta, Na'vi = Delta, Jake and the scientists = Alpha. The Gammas try to first convert, then overtake the Deltas, who are instead led into a new Alpha order.
    Stan is not my real name.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Actually, watching the movie I felt like there wasn't a single Gamma character in it. I don't see the archetype, either (besides oversimplistic Gamma = money with total disregard for Fi-valuing).
    Well you might dislike them because they are caricatures made by an Alpha, just like I laugh at oversimplification of Beta villains, but they are Gammas. Raw Se+Te.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    The only archetypal Beta in the movie is Trudy, the pilot, played by Michelle Rodriguez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well you might dislike them because they are caricatures made by an Alpha, just like I laugh at oversimplification of Beta villains, but they are Gammas. Raw Se+Te.
    That's the point, I didn't see any Gamma values, including Te... most of what happened on people's side seemed demonstrative / useless. I don't have a problem with destruction as such - and villains happen too - but it was like, let's take a hammer and start waving around, perhaps we'll even smash something, who cares if it's ourselves. It was like these guys just did it for adrenaline, it totally failed in showing cold/unemotional side of the corporation it was probably meant to. I see stan's point about negotiating, it results in some inconsistency of the characters... hardly unexpected with lack of plot and such, but still, I can't see these values ._.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    The only archetypal Beta in the movie is Trudy, the pilot, played by Michelle Rodriguez.
    Something is wrong with my understanding then :|.

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    Well the business man was a clear LIE. The Colonel, I suppose he could be a Beta, SLE-Se perhaps, but SEE was my initial thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well you might dislike them because they are caricatures made by an Alpha, just like I laugh at oversimplification of Beta villains, but they are Gammas. Raw Se+Te.
    If that's the case, what's my excuse for hating the one-dimensional characters of the film?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    Thanks for your explanation. Of course, this isn't the only example for sure. Different values always create conflict, and this is probably most striking if there are opposing quadras involved. Films generally need conflict, so you'll often find those situations.
    I think Dick was an Alpha (? ESE and LII ?) vs. Gamma (LIE and ESI) conflict. It pretty much took the Alpha side though.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    If that's the case, what's my excuse for hating the one-dimensional characters of the film?
    Poor acting and worthless writing

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    The sad thing about Avatar is that Studio Ghibli did better with handling the similar themes in Mononoke Hime. The characters were all quite flawed. The characters were given a nice amount of depth and complexity in their motivations. Even Ashitaka, the protagonist, was revealed to have some selfish motives in his quest. There were no easy answers to the problems or any clear moral pictures. The industrious humans did not fight the natives (forest spirits) over something as ridiculously transparent of a plot device as "unobtanium," but iron ore buried under the mountains of the forest. Did Avatar even once explain why "unobtanium" is valued by humans? Gah! Avatar was such a shallow and one-dimensional film!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Classic Alpha-Gamma conflict, with Deltas stuck in the middle.

    Jake - SEI-Si 9w8 so/sp
    Neytiri - SLI-Si 8w7 sx/so
    Etukan - LSE-Te 8w9 sp/so
    Moat - EII-Fi 1w2 sx/sp
    Tsu'Tey - LSE-Si 3w2 so/sp
    Colonel Quaritch- SEE-Se 8w7 sx/so
    Parker - LIE-Ni 3w4 sp/so
    Dr. Grace - ILE-Ti 6w5 sx/sp
    Norm - ILE-Ne 6w7 so/sx
    Trudy - SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/so
    I probably disagree with most of these, though I don't remember all of these people's names or possibly don't care about most of them.

    Jake - SLE was my thought (though I find the SEI suggestion intriguing)

    Neytiri - don't care (I actually see Neytiri as kind of pointless to attempt to type tbh, I think I can probably safely say she's a sensor, but that's about as far as I get... I feel like her and the rest of the blue people have a sort of void to them... an absence of a character in favor of the typical "tribal" characters, and although there are other simple characters, e.g. the colonel, they seem to jump out more as clearer stereotypes of a particular type... I mean with the colonel there's no question that the Se is everywhere, and well, practically the only thing there, but never mind that... it's like Se on steroids, incredible hulk Se vs. mere human Se, I mean with the Se amped up that high, there's no room for the other IEs, any of them)

    Next three - don't care

    The Colonel - Se and not much else. don't care if SLE or SEE. probably lean SLE. actually, I probably lean heavily SLE, but I mean there's no point in going beyond just "Se" almost. actually who am I kidding, that character does not have strong ethics. I don't want to give the impression though that I see this character as a representative of raw Se or anything, as I don't... it's more mutant Se, that's been twisted and warped in somewhat grotesque ways.

    Parker (assuming that's the company guy in charge) - my impression was ILE, but not that it was a strong one or anything, also Parker's character isn't that well delved into or anything

    Grace - my impression was ESI

    Norm - don't care, though seemed stereotype Alpha NT, prob agree w ILE

    Trudy - I would agree she's Beta and probably SLE like apparently all of Michelle Rodriquez' characters. Although as retarded as it is I got IEI-ish vibes from her character in this movie, but anyway.
    Last edited by inumbra; 06-12-2010 at 07:17 AM.

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    Michelle Rodriguez is pretty much stock casting for an SLE-Ti 6w7 sx/so.

    No way in HELL is Jake an SLE. Way too passive, go with the flow; a definite Enneagram 9w8.

    Grace is a major E6cp, and Sigourney Weaver is an LII, so I guess I could see the anxious-contained-reactive vibe that one might associate with an ESI, but to me she seemed much more socially relaxed than an ESI; she's wound tight, but still receptive to people like Jake. I suppose she could be seen as an LSI, but her place was with the "Alpha gang," and her forcefulness/"Se" seemed like it was supposed to just be angst from her place as a scientist whose real interests were repressed from working for "the man," thus causing her to lash out. Also she clearly does not treat people according to how she really feels about them, which is typical of peak Fi PoLRs. She's not at all controlling personally, seems somewhat harassed and scattered, silently resents being controlled, fun-loving but focused when she gets down to business.

    I suppose LSI could work just as well as ILE, but really it's a movie, and with a poorly defined character, and a tiebreaker like belonging to an archetypally Alpha group, I call her ILE-Ti.

    The Na'Vi are pretty Delta: obviously well-developed society with set traditions, living a largely self-contained lifestyle in harmony with nature. Their characters are very stock, and very Delta: LSE 8 tribal leader, EII 1 shamaness, LSE 3 future leader, Irrational daughter. Naytiri reminds me of implied, SLI.

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    Last edited by Blaze; 06-12-2010 at 12:23 PM.

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    I'm confused as to how people think Sully could be SLE rather than SEI...he's so socially adaptable, an obvious 9w8, clumsy, not particularly competent, down to earth, normal-sorta-guy. Pretty much the classic picture of an SEI, and nothing about him other than the stereotypical marine-jock image says SLE; he's a sensitive average joe who was in the right place at the right time, not especially strong willed but rather the inverse: completely go-with-the-flow, which is what allows him to both creep so far into the Na'Vi culture, and avoid suspicion on behalf of the Colonel until he is literally caught in the act. He never seeks to stand out, doesn't have any particular cause or motivation until his sympathies are swayed by first hand involvement in culture and a romantic encounter - not ideology.

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    another thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...43-avatar.html

    there's just so many of them.

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    I'd like to hear an explanation of the SLE typing...I don't see an ounce of a logical function in the guy.

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    That makes him an SLE? And that wasn't paranoia; he was told to do that by the lead scientist.

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    Wrong thread, sweetcheeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    No way in HELL is Jake an SLE. Way too passive, go with the flow; a definite Enneagram 9w8.
    well, I for one don't think an SLE 9w8 (if that's what he was though I don't really care to try to enneatype his character) is impossible in the least. I also think that being passive and go-with-the-flow isn't impossible either for SLE. I think that Jake's character was pretty passive at first because he was being a typical soldier (do what you're told, don't ask why, be a good soldier, follow the military code). I can actually see SLE as one of the types to be better at conforming to a military structure, so it doesn't seem really very un-SLE to me.

    Sigourney Weaver is an LII
    I know she's often typed as that, and I probably tend to just take people's word for it out of laziness of not caring to look into it, but I was also thinking of her character in the Alien movies who I see as ESI. I see more room in Avatar for doubt though about ESI for her character. I am wondering though if I might tend to see more of her charcters as ESI than just those two, but I can't really think of any of the other roles she's been in that I may have seen atm.

    so I guess I could see the anxious-contained-reactive vibe that one might associate with an ESI, but to me she seemed much more socially relaxed than an ESI; she's wound tight, but still receptive to people like Jake. I suppose she could be seen as an LSI, but her place was with the "Alpha gang," and her forcefulness/"Se" seemed like it was supposed to just be angst from her place as a scientist whose real interests were repressed from working for "the man," thus causing her to lash out. Also she clearly does not treat people according to how she really feels about them, which is typical of peak Fi PoLRs. She's not at all controlling personally, seems somewhat harassed and scattered, silently resents being controlled, fun-loving but focused when she gets down to business.
    Well, I'm kind of confused about all of this about Grace being in the "Alpha gang" as I'm not sure what the Alpha gang is (I mean Norm's possibly an Alpha, though I saw the big players among the science team being Grace, Jake and later Trudy)... don't really see the scientists as Alpha iow, or as anything. I also don't really see Grace as fun-loving (not at all)... more the opposite of fun loving (hard-working).

    I thought that Grace had serious ethical issues with the situation on Pandora and those were driving a lot of her behavior. I think she thought that it was wrong and that was why in one of the confrontations with Parker he pointed out that his company is the only reason she can carry out her all-important scientific work (i.e. if she's going to tread into ethical territory and finger pointing about what he and the military are doing, she better point the finger at herself as well because they're the ones funding her so she's part of it too).

    I do think that Grace was territorial about her project and didn't like the company/military interfering in it and wanted total control over it (and that her priorities did not match up with why she'd been brought there... she was brought there to help find a diplomatic solution by learning more about the Na'vi, but from her pov she's there to learn more about the planet, Na'vi, etc. as an end in itself almost, and everyone is supposed to wait until her research is concluded, which no matter which way it went would be to the conclusion of "it's wrong to do this"). I also think that she was generally over-stepping her bounds in this by claiming it as her project when really it wasn't (but this does seem like a typical scientist plot thing because they're always being funded from other sources with their own priorities that then want to control how they conduct the science and what they can and can't do when they just want to pursue the science for its own sake and see the whole funding thing as a pain in the ass... i.e. more likely to bite the hand that feeds them).

    I don't think that I really saw Grace as lacking in Se as she seemed to not in the least be afraid/uncomfortable with confrontation and conflict and seemed to readily create confrontations/conflicts. She seemed to have very set opinions about people like Parker who I think she generally regarded as a scum bag and treated him as such. She also didn't really seem receptive to anyone else's view of the right/wrong of situations but her own (she's always certain and always right... which isn't bad with Ne PoLR). She was pretty hard on Jake at first I thought, thinking of him as a dumb soldier with no knowledge on anything who tended to just dive right into things without thinking beforehand, which she criticized him for in the form of making cracks about his intelligence (I sort of thought this might work with supervision--her ESI, him SLE). Over time though she seemed to come to respect him more, I think largely because she could see he was a decent person. I thought that she was trying to influence Jake, to use him to help her own ends. As soon as the Na'vi chose Jake, her focus was on trying to get him to understand them, and I thought it was largely to get him to gain a vested interest in them so that he might side with them. I think she knew he was starting to fall in love with them and with the life he was sharing with them and that this was helping her agenda and she knew it.

    I mean I do think that there's a kind of break in Grace's character... on the one hand, there's her ethical agenda... she doesn't want the military to move in on the Na'vi or tear down their home and although that's backed by her understanding of their planet as a giant neural network, it's also a very ethical stance... on the other hand, Grace is playing the explorative scientist who just wants to know and understand more for its own sake and wants other forces to back off so she can continue her science. I see the two aspects as somewhat incompatible at least in terms of Socionics, though I'm not entirely sure why yet. It's almost like you can't really be both, because those two drives become competing at some point. I suppose you could say there's a conflict of this nature within her character, but if so, I don't think it was really drawn out very much and the character would actually have been much stronger and more complex if it had been. I think that I probably see her as an ESI-ish character, with more touches of the stereotypical NT-ish scientist than are fitting (kind of reminds me of the character of Capt. Janeway on Voyager who was supposedly a scientist, but who was very ESIish, or at least XSIish, but in some episodes it's like suddenly she's more NTish when she's back in her scientist mold). I think that Grace's character though wasn't so much about having blinding Ne revelations or something, but more centered just on going into the field, taking samples, making sure you have the appropriate knowledge on the alien culture/language/way of life, in a way that is more direct-observation focused and not so much theoretical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm confused as to how people think Sully could be SLE rather than SEI...he's so socially adaptable, an obvious 9w8, clumsy, not particularly competent, down to earth, normal-sorta-guy. Pretty much the classic picture of an SEI, and nothing about him other than the stereotypical marine-jock image says SLE; he's a sensitive average joe who was in the right place at the right time, not especially strong willed but rather the inverse: completely go-with-the-flow, which is what allows him to both creep so far into the Na'Vi culture, and avoid suspicion on behalf of the Colonel until he is literally caught in the act. He never seeks to stand out, doesn't have any particular cause or motivation until his sympathies are swayed by first hand involvement in culture and a romantic encounter - not ideology.
    I would probably see him as a typical good soldier who was in the military because he somehow considered himself a loser in life and this was one thing he could easily do (follow orders and get the job done). I thought being a soldier came naturally to him. I generally thought that he was inwardly sensitive but wasn't really in touch with that part of himself so much (he could emotionally detach himself from his job rather easily imo, for instance he didn't have any issue in the beginning with his role of deceiving Grace and the Na'vi). I thought what swayed him was when he began falling in love with the tribe and when his life with them began to seem more real to him than his other life and this began causing conflict and doubt as to what he was doing (I was actually pretty skeptical about his relationship with Neytiri since it just seemed to fall into place organically and I didn't really think there was enough time to really develop long-lasting feelings but anyway). All the while he still went along with his mission, until the tipping point where the military moved in and he had to pick a side, which he'd already picked a side, but he didn't really know he had. His instincts just sort of spoke to what side he had picked. In general this seemed to be how his character worked... he largely acts on impulse and instinct, and I didn't see that as a bad match with Se leading. He also was kind of oblivious to some things... for instance Neytiri and that other guy were supposed to be married and this seemed to be some kind of a set thing in the tribe of rather great significance, but Jake barges right in ignoring all of this, steals Neytiri from the other guy and then expects the other guy to just adapt and be okay with this... I think that his character tends towards doing offensive things like this that he doesn't realize are offensive (and although it's weak, I sort of wondered about Fi PoLR--it's mainly that he didn't seem to give any thought at all about how that might affect the tribe or how others like Neytiri's "finance" might feel about it). I also thought he was cause-oriented. Once he had found himself a cause (leading the Na'vi against the sky people) he was pretty gung ho about it, giving moving speeches to rally them all into action, uniting all of them from various lands, that whole stunt with the big red dragon thing as a symbol to get them to hear him out again, etc. I think that before military missions had probably served as his "causes" (i.e. possibly needing something to fight for). I agree that he's a pretty mellow character, adaptable, not particularly strong willed, but I'm not sure that all of that means he couldn't be SLE (for one thing, once his mind is set, he doesn't back out and will go to the end). Anyway all of this said, I still find SEI an interesting suggestion and I was thinking about it, because not like I made a strong case for SLE or anything. I mean I don't think the character screams Se or SLE or anything, or is a great example of that type, not at all, but I'm not necessarily convinced it couldn't work.

    I agree that Jake doesn't seek to stand out or draw attention to himself and generally seems kind of average and harmless. I didn't think the military colonel guy just let him slip under his radar though. I thought that he grew suspicious when Jake wanted to prolong his work with the Na'vi and suspected why at that point but just let him continue anyway, because not that it mattered, it wouldn't change that he was going to invade the next day or whatever. I mean he probably didn't take Jake seriously as a threat at any point, but that probably spoke more to his own way of over-estimating himself/under-estimating others. Actually I think he had started getting suspicious when Jake stopped submitting reports as frequently.

    Anyway I tend to see Jake as a rather naive person who's a blank slate (as by his own account) and is used to just doing what he's told without really questioning it. I tend to think this reflects a sort of stagnation in reaching his potential... I think that his personality came out more in his "Avatar body" and he started discovering more of himself.

    eta: I am having more issues with the Grace as ESI idea the more I think about it.
    Last edited by inumbra; 06-14-2010 at 12:35 AM.

  37. #37
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    Sam Worthington as Corporal Jake Sully.

    SHOULDA BEEN CALLED SAM HUNTINGTON

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I'm still pretty set on SEI. That beginning scene in his Avatar was pure Si.

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