Deltas, do you like Lady Gaga?

[UDP]

Deltas, do you like Lady Gaga?

[Beautiful sky]

yeah sure I do, she's cute and very creative and great to dance to

[The Greeter]

I don't like her music, but from what I've heard about her life, I like her as a person.

I realize she is somewhat outrageous and over the top, her obsession with glamour and being "herself" by being "fake" have the potential to rub me the wrong way, but ironically, I find her quite authentic.

[Suz]

I really love her voice and the music and the energy of it, but not really the lyrics, and DEFINITELY not her grotesque music videos!

I work out to paparazzi. Would totally have "bad romance" and "pokerface" in my mix if not for those lyrics--it's just unpleasant for some inexplicable reason.

[silverchris9]

It's not inexplicable. Bad Romance especially has blatantly and archetypally beta values.

I would expect deltas to like a great deal of Lady Gaga's... thing, because she's genuinely talented, and that transcends socionics. But, there are many aspects of her... thing, that are quintessentially beta, and as such, likely to irritate or unnerve your average delta.

[xerx]

I'm sure she's creative and revolutionary but I don't really like her music.

[Crispy]

Is she EIE?

[Existential Potato]

It's not inexplicable. Bad Romance especially has blatantly and archetypally beta values.

I would expect deltas to like a great deal of Lady Gaga's... thing, because she's genuinely talented, and that transcends socionics. But, there are many aspects of her... thing, that are quintessentially beta, and as such, likely to irritate or unnerve your average delta.

So you like her too huh?

[Creepy-]

I like her. Catchy music [good to work out to, as someone mentioned], cool videos, I'll-do-my-own-thing-and-you-can-go-to-Hell-if-you-have-a-problem-with-it attitude.

She has a great voice, and I like how she does everything herself [writing her lyrics, which may not be brilliant, but are interesting nonetheless and certainly don't bother me; designing her very unique costumes, videos, and shows; etc.].

I was talking about her w someone the other day and joking about how even though I like her, I feel like she's making fun of us all by intentionally over-doing everything that is theatrical, and yet people go crazy for her. Random tidbit: I read somewhere [Rolling Stone, maybe] that she writes a lot of her songs while drunk or hungover, and fast: her theory is that if a song takes longer than twenty minutes to write it won't be a hit. And that seems to work for her.

[Gilly]

Her kind of style usually appeals to me (the concept for the Bad Romance video was cool, but overdone), but I got over her really quick. I don't think I've ever gone out of my way to listen to her, maybe once.

[silverchris9]

So you like her too huh?

...yes? Although I think she's more interesting as a person than as a musician.

[Beautiful sky]

What do Deltas think? She flashed her vagina at her sisters Catholic school graduation.

She's a person, we should try not to put her down...was she under the influence of some drug? What were the circumstances...shouldn't we try to be more understanding about what happened first?

[Gilly]

What do Deltas think? She flashed her vagina at her sisters Catholic school graduation.

Wow, mad respect.

[marooned]

I like her and I like most of her videos that I've seen probably due to the intensity. I don't actually have any of her songs though and seem to be apathetic about them (I like them better in the videos which are all on youtube, so no need to bother with the mp3s... I mean there are probably a couple songs that might make their way eventually into my mp3 collection especially if I heard them a few more times, but anyway).

I was talking about her w someone the other day and joking about how even though I like her, I feel like she's making fun of us all by intentionally over-doing everything that is theatrical, and yet people go crazy for her.

I don't really think she is making fun of everyone, maybe making fun of life or satires of life, but not people (i.e. her fans). Though understandably it could still feel that way and all.

I probably agree with most of SoapOfSapphire's post and think that covered many of the likeable things about her.

[Suz]

What do Deltas think? She flashed her vagina at her sisters Catholic school graduation.

I think that's gross, inappropriate, unprofessional, disrespectful, and totally unnecessary.

[Suz]

She's a person, we should try not to put her down...was she under the influence of some drug? What were the circumstances...shouldn't we try to be more understanding about what happened first?

Maritsa sometimes you are just a little TOO tolerant. Tolerance of badness can be just as evil as doing the bad thing yourself, you know. Fi includes differentiating between right and wrong against a standard, that's why it's with Te.

I mean, who cares if she was under the influence! Arriving to a high school graduation ceremony intoxicated or high is also inappropriate and disrespectful. Especially if she was there as a noted celebrity speaker (and I dont know if she was). And what about respect for her own sister? The only circumstance that would excuse this sort of behavior in my view is if it were accidental (like a wardrobe malfunction).

[silverchris9]

I think that's gross, inappropriate, unprofessional, disrespectful, and totally unnecessary.

...

[Creepy-]

What do Deltas think? She flashed her vagina at her sisters Catholic school graduation.

lol

EDIT: Is it "un-Delta" to find this amusing rather than ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE? I mean, I just see it as her being her; maybe she's doing it just for the attention, but whatever. If she is then it's working. Anyway, it's not like she actually hurt anyone by flashing them; I'm sure they'll all be just fine.

I like her and I like most of her videos that I've seen probably due to the intensity. I don't actually have any of her songs though and seem to be apathetic about them (I like them better in the videos which are all on youtube, so no need to bother with the mp3s... I mean there are probably a couple songs that might make their way eventually into my mp3 collection especially if I heard them a few more times, but anyway).

I don't really think she is making fun of everyone, maybe making fun of life or satires of life, but not people (i.e. her fans). Though understandably it could still feel that way and all.

I was joking about that; I don't really feel like she's making fun of people.

I probably agree with most of SoapOfSapphire's post and think that covered many of the likeable things about her.

Great minds...

[marooned]

I was joking about that; I don't really feel like she's making fun of people.

Oh, well nevermind then.

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa sometimes you are just a little TOO tolerant. Tolerance of badness can be just as evil as doing the bad thing yourself, you know. Fi includes differentiating between right and wrong against a standard, that's why it's with Te.

I mean, who cares if she was under the influence! Arriving to a high school graduation ceremony intoxicated or high is also inappropriate and disrespectful. Especially if she was there as a noted celebrity speaker (and I dont know if she was). And what about respect for her own sister? The only circumstance that would excuse this sort of behavior in my view is if it were accidental (like a wardrobe malfunction).

It is in me to be tolerant. Fi is being loyal and having strong values in a relationship. Why not? I have trust and tolerance...I think those things in a healthy relationship is necessary so that people don't get paranoid about each other and give each other not only space but also a strong bond.

[Suz]

lol

EDIT: Is it "un-Delta" to find this amusing rather than ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE? I mean, I just see it as her being her; maybe she's doing it just for the attention, but whatever. If she is then it's working. Anyway, it's not like she actually hurt anyone by flashing them; I'm sure they'll all be just fine.



I was joking about that; I don't really feel like she's making fun of people.



Great minds...

I mean, I'm not condemning her or anything, and I can see how that was a gesture of attention and intentional controversy, and as such very beta of her. But I wouldn't really find it funny. I would find it stupid.

[Suz]

It is in me to be tolerant. Fi is being loyal and having strong values in a relationship. Why not? I have trust and tolerance...I think those things in a healthy relationship is necessary so that people don't get paranoid about each other and give each other not only space but also a strong bond.

Like i said, being tolerant is good. However, being TOO tolerant when something ought to be said is not consistent with Fi. It's like standing around watching when someone is being raped, trying to understand the motive. (which actually has been expressed by some in beta )

p.s. do you have a personal relationship with Lady Gaga, that you're so loyal to her? if you are trying to manifest Fi in this context, that is not it.

[Beautiful sky]

Like i said, being tolerant is good. However, being TOO tolerant when something ought to be said is not consistent with Fi. It's like standing around watching when someone is being raped, trying to understand the motive. (which actually has been expressed by some in beta )

p.s. do you have a personal relationship with Lady Gaga, that you're so loyal to her? if you are trying to manifest Fi in this context, that is not it.

Being too tolerant is using Ne to factor in other possibilities that may or may not happen or will happen or have happened...people are multi faceted, they just don't do things sometimes because they are black and white...all kinds of factors drive our decision and they may not just be tied to our willingness, wants, or desires.

[Gilly]

I think that's gross, inappropriate, unprofessional, disrespectful, and totally unnecessary.

In a world where sexual repression is our greatest deviation from the basic nature of our beings, it's completely necessary.

[Creepy-]

I mean, I'm not condemning her or anything, and I can see how that was a gesture of attention and intentional controversy, and as such very beta of her. But I wouldn't really find it funny. I would find it stupid.

Yeah, I think for me it's because it was Lady Gaga doing it. I mean, she's a performer who's known for doing outlandish things. If it was the President flashing genitalia at a formal public gathering of religious people, I'd have a problem with it. But Lady Gaga? Whatever.

[Existential Potato]

I mean, I'm not condemning her or anything, and I can see how that was a gesture of attention and intentional controversy, and as such very beta of her. But I wouldn't really find it funny. I would find it stupid.

Yes, because gestures of attention and intentional controversy are so obviously beta.

Like i said, being tolerant is good. However, being TOO tolerant when something ought to be said is not consistent with Fi. It's like standing around watching when someone is being raped, trying to understand the motive. (which actually has been expressed by some in beta )

p.s. do you have a personal relationship with Lady Gaga, that you're so loyal to her? if you are trying to manifest Fi in this context, that is not it.

..
You have single handedly made this topic go from contemptible to amusing.

[silverchris9]

Like i said, being tolerant is good. However, being TOO tolerant when something ought to be said is not consistent with Fi. It's like standing around watching when someone is being raped, trying to understand the motive. (which actually has been expressed by some in beta )

1) I don't think you really understood what was being communicated in that topic.
2) I don't think it's quite accurate to say that a given moral action is or is not consistent with Fi. I mean, the nature of Fi is that it is a subjective function, and as such, the standards vary wildly. I'm sure you could have a cultural situation wherein an Fi valuer could firmly believe that not showing your vagina in public is a huge breach of social etiquette. So "consistent with Fi" means something more like, "strongly adhering to your moral standards, whatever they are," rather than, "condemning and avoiding actions like action x." Fi is very personal and individual, and even though Fi valuers tend to think that many of their moral views are universal---and they very well may be---certainly not all Fi valuers have the same or even similar values.

[silverchris9]

Yes, because gestures of attention and intentional controversy are so obviously beta.

OMG, Potato, yes, those are actions that are generally associated with the beta quadra. Neither the fact that the behaviors are not exclusive to the beta quadra nor that not all betas manifest the behavior in question, invalidates its use as a generalization, especially for differentiating beta from delta. Furthermore, we can use additional information: does the person generally behave this way, or only when under stress? Does the person like this way of being, or wish they could change? Does the person like people who accept this way of being? Has the person consistently behaved this way over the course of their lives? Obviously, none of this information can be used to make a conclusive, unalterable, 100% sure typing (obviously not, because socionics doesn't conclusively, unalterably, 100% sure fit reality), but it can be used to get pretty close, and you can adjust for new evidence from there.

[Gilly]

Yeah, I think for me it's because it was Lady Gaga doing it. I mean, she's a performer who's known for doing outlandish things. If it was the President flashing genitalia at a formal public gathering of religious people, I'd have a problem with it. But Lady Gaga? Whatever.

Really? I'd think even more of someone who did that. Major balls.

[Creepy-]

Really? I'd think even more of someone who did that. Major balls.

Balls, maybe. But if it was the leader of the nation, I'd be fairly appalled. Would you not be? I mean, if tomorrow Obama pulled down his pants while giving a speech, what would you think of it? I'm genuinely curious.

[silverchris9]

Balls, maybe. But if it was the leader of the nation, I'd be fairly appalled. Would you not be? I mean, if tomorrow Obama pulled down his pants while giving a speech, what would you think of it? I'm genuinely curious.

Oooh! I want to answer this question!

Objectively, I would think it was stupid, because I know people would react negatively. But I would still find it cool and hilarious and awesome. Because, just... really? Way to break all the rules, dude.

[marooned]

I don't seem to have any strong feelings about Lady Gaga flashing her vagina, other than "doesn't surprise me." I don't have any strong feelings about not flashing it either. I don't feel it's an important statement. I feel annoyed with the whole "omg! you flashed your privates in a sexually conservative place in front of people! you're in my cool people book now! such a dramatic statement to show your coolness once and for all! It's like so amazing and unheard of!" reactions. I don't really care if it's cool or not. It's not stifling and uptight, and so it is safe (that which is uptight and insanely sexually conservative, and yes repressive, is something that I probably find more offensive and even scary in that it's restricting what people can be...) That said, I once again do agree with SoapofSapphire, again, I know, that I would think it was horrible for a world leader to do that in front of a bunch of religious representatives from another nation/culture, it would be an insult, and seriously screw over relations with other countries and I would probably have a strong feeling about it for that reason... as I feel international relations are often a delicate matter and so trying to be respectful/considerate of others' cultures etc. is very important in the role of world leader. Although I seriously don't understand why the president always has to make appearances in suits on TV... I mean why can't people just wear whatever (and if other cultures found that offensive, not wearing a suit, I wouldn't care because seriously that's really rude to hold standards about what *other* people can and can't wear). And even the president flashing everyone in-house on "American soil" would be inappropriate because well it just would be... it's more defined by cultural context. It's just not okay to be naked in our culture and I have mixed feelings about all of that. I'd probably feel sympathetic to all the parents bitching because of the "message" it sends to their children that the president has this issue with his clothes always falling off, seemingly of their own accord, in public. Okay, that would be ready funny, the president being a nudist. I think our culture just isn't ready for such a thing.

[Gilly]

Balls, maybe. But if it was the leader of the nation, I'd be fairly appalled. Would you not be? I mean, if tomorrow Obama pulled down his pants while giving a speech, what would you think of it? I'm genuinely curious.

It would have undesirable consequences, for sure, but I would have to give him mad props for having absolutely enormous balls.

[silverchris9]

It would have undesirable consequences, for sure, but I would have to give him mad props for having absolutely enormous balls.

I don't know about that; remember, he's only half-black. So they're probably only slightly above average.

[Gilly]

aha...haha...

...

[crazedrat]

I'd have to put obama down as the greatest president of all time

What do Deltas think? She flashed her vagina at her sisters Catholic school graduation.

I think that's pretty damn hilarious myself

[jessica129]

Obama should flash the goods

[silverchris9]

aha...haha...

...

Oh, come on, genitals AND racial stereotypes? If you don't consider that funny, it's because you don't have a sense of humor.

[Gilly]

Obvious negates funny about 99% of the time.

[UDP]

What do Deltas think? She flashed her vagina at her sisters Catholic school graduation.

If you've seen Alejandro, she also wore a nun's outfit with upside down crosses, and put an entire rosary in her mouth, to say the least. Conservative Catholics would probably also have issue with the sexuality and particularly homosexuality that is alluded to in that video.

Delta =/= Catholic, of course