My mother-in-law: ESE or SEE?

[redbaron]

I'm nearly certain that her husband (my father-in-law) is SEI. Probably enneagram 9w1.

Anyway, my mother in law uses a lot of Fe. However, she also seems to be overly preoccupied with Fi so it's hard for me to figure out which is dominant. She's also strong in Si and Se.

She's very much a people-person. She emphasizes relationships and where she stands with people a lot. She's had difficult relations with her ILI sister and ESI son (my husband's brother). She gets along pretty well with her husband (SEI) and mine (ESE). But that could be attributed to things besides type.

She loves sports and is very opinionated about them. I don't think I've ever heard her talk about philosophic ideas or concepts. She's narcissistic. Everything is about her and how it relates to her but those are virtually the only connections she makes. In conversation, she will often make big jumps from topic to topic. There's ZERO connection between what she just said and the next thing that comes out of her mouth. Or she'll pick up a conversation where she left off two hours ago as if you should know exactly what she's thinking and what she's talking about.

She doesn't read any fiction, only self-help and religious material.

Holds grudges forever.

Can be extremely generous but also can be selfish, based on her mood and/or her feeling toward the other person.

Stubborn.

I feel like she focuses on the externals--like what's for dinner, what people are doing around her, what's going on, lots of gossip is interesting to her, "have you heard about so-and-so". But she also likes secrets. Likes it when someone trusts her with a secret because that makes her feel special and "close" to you.

thoughts?

[Beautiful sky]

Not INFj

ISTp

Fi is activation function and would look like me around relationships/people, but my type loves philosophic ideas and concepts and other intellectual things.

Holding grudges just doesn't seem to be Fi ego to me.

[MatthewZ]

Why rule out ESI?

[silverchris9]

Agreed. ESI = possible. Perhaps lack of connection between statements could be roughly related to weak Ti, but I'm not 100% sure about that connection. What was the source of the conflict with the gamma relatives? Does it seem more situational or personality related?

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

ESE>SEE?

[Aiss]

I think a lot of what you say either doesn't really point to a particular type or you simply look at it so differently I can't get the right picture. One thing I can say is that a few things (not the least relationships) suggest ESE, plus your attitude towards her sounds more supervisory than not, but I can't say with any certainty.

[Beautiful sky]

I say P type for sure, because emotions are somewhat irrational.

[redbaron]

I think a lot of what you say either doesn't really point to a particular type or you simply look at it so differently I can't get the right picture. One thing I can say is that a few things (not the least relationships) suggest ESE, plus your attitude towards her sounds more supervisory than not, but I can't say with any certainty.

yeah. we get along but it's more like I allow myself to feel bemused by her and I try to be gracious and "get along". deep down, I do feel like her supervisor.

ESE also makes sense with her ILI sister (and SEI husband). I was going to write this another post but I'll put it here.

She doesn't seem ESI to me. A couple of my best friends in jr. high and part of HS was ESI and she seems different. More effusive and initiative-taking and she actually is pretty inclusive of people, if she knows them through someone else who she trusts.

The source of conflict is complicated. I think partly, with the ILI sister, it's communication styles because a lot of it seems to be things that could have been overcome through the years. It's just all sorts of things though. Not purely situational, no. I think it's personality too.

given her intertype relations, I'm thinking ESE makes more sense. Definitely weak Ti and weak Ni. It's still hard for me to tell if she values Fe or Fi more highly because she uses both almost to an equal level. But I don't think there's any way she could be duals with her sister! LOL Cause I think they've tried, and the conflict is pretty evident.

[The Exception]

I was actually thinking SEE, with ESI next most likely. Keep in mind that SEE and ESIs also have strong Fe. The question is, does it seem to be a valued function or not?

Anyway, my mother in law uses a lot of Fe. However, she also seems to be overly preoccupied with Fi so it's hard for me to figure out which is dominant. She's also strong in Si and Se.

Probably in the SF club.

She's very much a people-person. She emphasizes relationships and where she stands with people a lot. She's had difficult relations with her ILI sister and ESI son (my husband's brother). She gets along pretty well with her husband (SEI) and mine (ESE). But that could be attributed to things besides type.

The emphasizing relationships and her standing suggests Fi valuing, however, in the example above, she appears to get along better with alpha SF than gamma SF which conflicts with that.

She loves sports and is very opinionated about them. I don't think I've ever heard her talk about philosophic ideas or concepts.

Lots of types like sports for different reasons. I think S types in general tend to like them more than N types. Not talking about philosophic ideas or concepts suggests weak N. Almost certainly an S type.

She's narcissistic. Everything is about her and how it relates to her but those are virtually the only connections she makes. In conversation, she will often make big jumps from topic to topic. There's ZERO connection between what she just said and the next thing that comes out of her mouth. Or she'll pick up a conversation where she left off two hours ago as if you should know exactly what she's thinking and what she's talking about.

The making zero connection between topics in conversation suggests weak . has a tendency to jump from topic to topic, but if its coupled with , I think its more obvious what the connections are. wants to be coherent. I don't think she has in her ego but I wanted to point that out. I've just noticed from my experience conversing with weak people, that I've noticed they can appear quite random in conversation, regardless of whether they have strong or weak .

She doesn't read any fiction, only self-help and religious material.

Holds grudges forever.

Lots of people read self-help and religious material. I don't that in itself is very conclusive but it could suggest seeking.

N types, particularly NF's seem to read more fiction. S types seem to prefer more nonfiction. Of course that's a broad generalization and not a good way to type. My SLI father only reads fiction. I'm an intuitive type and I read both but tend to read more nonfiction.

Regarding grudge holding, of the SFs, I think ESIs are most prone to this, being base . I know some SEE's who are quite prone to grude holding too though. In general, it seems like valuers tend to hold grudges more.

Can be extremely generous but also can be selfish, based on her mood and/or her feeling toward the other person.

Stubborn.

This also suggests gamma SF, coupled with . I think the first statement is more SEE like; the second about being stubborn probably more common with ESI.

I feel like she focuses on the externals--like what's for dinner, what people are doing around her, what's going on, lots of gossip is interesting to her, "have you heard about so-and-so". But she also likes secrets. Likes it when someone trusts her with a secret because that makes her feel special and "close" to you.

Wanting to know what's going on externally and being interested in gossip seems consistent with all SF types. The part about liking it when someone trusts her with a secret suggests valuing.

Overall, I get more of a gamma SF vibe from her than an alpha SF one, even though she claims to have good relations with an SEI and an ESE and poor relations with an SEE and an ESI. Relations aren't everything and there are various reasons why sometimes we don't get along with those in our quadra while we get along with those in our opposing quadra.
I still wouldn't rule out alpha SF as a possibility though. Almost certainly an SF of some kind.

[redbaron]

yeah I agree with everything you said. I can see the argument for gamma SF & it's still a possibility.

These might not be type-related, but I'll toss them out anyway.

She asks questions like "do you like my outfit?" or "what do you think of the needlepoint I'm working on?" seems to need reassurance that you "like" her. (but this might be general insecurity)

Is stubborn about eating only what she feels like eating and can't stick to a diet for very long. Will occasionally eat only donuts for the entire day and then feel crappy. Does this over and over again, doesn't seem to learn.

In bad physical health in general. Doesn't exercise although she knows she needs to. (maybe this Si stuff actually rules out ESE, now that I think about it)

Hyper-aware of how she looks. Shoes, handbags, nails always painted, toenails painted, hair done, etc. Wants to be noticed positively.

Family tradition is *extremely* important to her. She once made me promise never to get rid of any piece of furniture she has or WILL give us in the future. I wasn't sure how to answer that! Of course I can't promise something like that! Good grief....

Has stories to go with every recipe and every piece of furniture she owns. And will tell them over and over again (does every older person do this?).

[stanprollyright]

Reminds me a lot of my mother, who I'm pretty sure is ESE.

[Aiss]

Regarding grudge holding, of the SFs, I think ESIs are most prone to this, being base . I know some SEE's who are quite prone to grude holding too though. In general, it seems like valuers tend to hold grudges more.

Methinks it was discussed a while back and the examples given were inconclusive at best.

This also suggests gamma SF, coupled with . I think the first statement is more SEE like; the second about being stubborn probably more common with ESI.

I find far more consistent in their treatment of a person than , to be honest.

The part about liking it when someone trusts her with a secret suggests valuing.

Agreed.

She asks questions like "do you like my outfit?" or "what do you think of the needlepoint I'm working on?" seems to need reassurance that you "like" her. (but this might be general insecurity)

Perfectly consistent with ESE.

Is stubborn about eating only what she feels like eating and can't stick to a diet for very long. Will occasionally eat only donuts for the entire day and then feel crappy. Does this over and over again, doesn't seem to learn.

In bad physical health in general. Doesn't exercise although she knows she needs to. (maybe this Si stuff actually rules out ESE, now that I think about it)

Diet part and "does it over and over again, doesn't seem to learn" are something I've noticed in ESEs (the latter may be relatively poor long-term memory in those I know, however). The rest I didn't notice, for example my mother - closest ESE to me b/c of family ties - is very much aware of physical needs and issues like these, in herself (very much so) and others (quite well).

Hyper-aware of how she looks. Shoes, handbags, nails always painted, toenails painted, hair done, etc. Wants to be noticed positively.

Noted in both ESE and SEE.

Family tradition is *extremely* important to her. She once made me promise never to get rid of any piece of furniture she has or WILL give us in the future. I wasn't sure how to answer that! Of course I can't promise something like that! Good grief....

Not at all ESE, by those I know. But then, I don't know how type related it is, since I can't really think of people like that - probably exaggerated in her case.

Has stories to go with every recipe and every piece of furniture she owns. And will tell them over and over again (does every older person do this?).

Yeah. Well, obviously I don't know every older person, but it seems pretty common.

[The Exception]

She asks questions like "do you like my outfit?" or "what do you think of the needlepoint I'm working on?" seems to need reassurance that you "like" her. (but this might be general insecurity)

My ESE mother asks alot of these questions but it's not so much that she's seeking reassurance that you "like her" more that she genuinely wants to hear our opinions. She cares alot about making the right impression dress wise and doesn't want to embarrass herself in public. Not suggesting that this person in question is ESE, I'm not really sure what type this most points to.

Is stubborn about eating only what she feels like eating and can't stick to a diet for very long. Will occasionally eat only donuts for the entire day and then feel crappy. Does this over and over again, doesn't seem to learn.

This suggests unvalued Si but to be fair, I know people across the socion who are notoriously unhealthy eaters. I know an SLI who could care less about eating healthy and he's base. He won't eat one food to the exclusion of all others but almost everything he chooses to eat is unhealthy. I think though, that he is quite aware of what food does to his body- he is well aware of how certain foods make him feel and can easily tell when he is hungry or when he is full.

How good is she at feeling how certain foods affect her body? Is she well aware of the fact that she feels crappy because she's eaten too many donuts (but continues to do so anyway because she likes donuts) Or is it more the case that is she not aware that the reason she feels crappy is because is unaware that there is a connection between eating donuts and feeling crappy, therefore repeating the same mistake.

In bad physical health in general. Doesn't exercise although she knows she needs to. (maybe this Si stuff actually rules out ESE, now that I think about it)

Yeah, that would suggest unvalued Si but I wouldn't rule out ESE based on just that. My ESE mother doesn't exercise and doesn't seem to much care, although she is still in good physical health. Has never had any major physical ailments.

There are many reasons why people don't exercise. Lack of time is probably one of the biggest barriers. Does she have a very busy schedule? Not finding it enjoyable is another. Do you think she'd be more likely to exercise if there was a way she could make it more fun? Perhaps by exercising with a friend, listening to her favorite music or watching a video while she works out, etc. Physical discomfort is another reason. But often this is simply due to improper technique and training regimen. If all of a sudden one day you start running a long distance and haven't been running at all before, of course you're going to be out of breath and find it unpleasant. You have to slowly work your way up to it. And finally, there's self-consciousness, especially if you go to a gym and workout and you see all these super-fit people there and you're just a beginner. Do you know what her biggest barrier to exercise is? Perhaps that could provide some insight.

Hyper-aware of how she looks. Shoes, handbags, nails always painted, toenails painted, hair done, etc. Wants to be noticed positively.

I think sensing types in general are more aware of this than intuitive types and this suggests she is an S type. The valuers are aware of how they look but what's really important to them is dressing for comfort and in a way they personally feel good about. The valuers seem to care more about making a certain impression on others, even if it means sacrificing some comfort. Although, I think most people care about making a good impression. I guess the difference is Si valuers, just want to make a good impression so they don't embarrass themselves, with Se valuers, they seem to want to stand out more, to appear hot or sexy, or to knock the socks off, whatever.

Family tradition is *extremely* important to her. She once made me promise never to get rid of any piece of furniture she has or WILL give us in the future. I wasn't sure how to answer that! Of course I can't promise something like that! Good grief....

Has stories to go with every recipe and every piece of furniture she owns. And will tell them over and over again (does every older person do this?).

The family tradition thing seems to smack of ESE. At least with the ESEs I know. The stories to go with every recipe and piece of furniture seems alpha SF'y.

You've confused me more now. At least the club is easy to figure out.