Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: ENFj-ISTj duality: Hamlet and Maxim by Stratiyevskaya

  1. #1
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default ENFj-ISTj duality: Hamlet and Maxim by Stratiyevskaya

    Full translated article: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya


    Part II:
    Early stages of dualization. First problems and challenges.

    1. First step of dualization: mutual trust and business interest: Channels 3 - 7, dualization over the aspects of "ethics of relations", Fi, and "logic of actions", Te.


    Already at first acquaintance the LSI shows him/herself as an interesting conversationalist – extremely erudite and well-read, given to thorough thought, witty, able to maintain the conversation on almost any topic. At the same time (on basis of emotiveness associated with mobility and communicability over normative aspect of the ethics of relations, +Fi), Maxim makes an impression of a sensitive and sympathetic person, attentive, caring, tactful, capable of deep nuanced feelings and compassion. All of these traits are extremely appealing to the EIE and thoroughly impress him or her under favorable circumstances and with a pleasant initial impression: good looks, gallant manners, refined taste, external charm, tidiness, neatness, accuracy, self-discipline, acting considerately, holding oneself in society with dignity, courting beautifully and generously, and being exact with fulfilling one's promises.

    In cases when the relationship seems to be "worth it", the LSI imparts on the partner the most well-disposed and favorable impression (on a maximum of his upbringing and education). If expectations are not justified, the LSI can likewise switch from the state of high chivalry to extreme rudeness: the LSI dislikes being taken for a "fool", being cheated, kept for an idiot, baited and switched – in such cases becomes offended, angry, and considers it his duty to punish the offender. If the "punishment" consists only of an angry verbal attack or a loud rebuke, it can be said that the offender got off easy. The LSI is unforgiving of hurtful jokes and ruses: as it is exactly when he's made such an important bet on tying a favorable and advantageous acquaintance with the goal of finding a life partner, that he least wants to be sent on a wild goose chase, to waste his time, his chances, strengths, and material resources on a "fake", that could lead to no end of troubles and prove to be a dangerous and unsound connection.

    As a systematic logician, a "static", "aristocrat", and "declaring" type, that puts ahead of him/herself ambitious goals and strives to achieve them promptly, the LSI is pragmatic: he's not going to expend himself on false (sidewise) goals, but attempts to systematically combine and arrange them such that each of the achieved goals would realize other tasks, resolve other challenges, and open before him new prospects. If one gets married, then on a girl or woman with connections, a good dowry, a residence permit, with ideal living conditions (such that later one wouldn't have to leave), with gorgeous looks, well-mannered, well-educated (not to feel ashamed of her before the society), with good practical and business skills (so that with her help much could be achieved), that is organized and diligent, well-wishing and friendly, such that she was a good person, a great hostess, wife and mother, respectful towards her husband, his parents, and his children.

    The LSI is the obstinate-declaring-static-aristocratic-rational introverted sensing systematic logical type. And, given the combination of all these traits, he or she is extremely picky about the qualities and characteristics of the future life partner. But most importantly – he or she is very prudent, pragmatic, and stubborn – uncompromising (on psychological grounds). Life must "break" the LSI hard before he or she lets go of at least an inch of his demands and requirements towards a partner. Thus, the LSI looks for a partner to bring home as meticulously as in the good old days the farmer looked to buy a horse or a cow. He will comprehensively evaluate each trait and each quality, and think through every step beforehand (it is also preferable to check the quality of the new acquisition on the spot, and still have the possibility to return it back as unwanted, and even make a claim and present a bill for any resulting moral and material costs).

    ...

    Dualizing with the LSI "out of calculation and convenience" - is more expensive to oneself! The LSI is a practical and economical manager: in no time that he brings his new wife back home with him that he finds her a "useful" application. Directs and sends her "to work" – to the kitchen, to the field, to the barn, to the stable ... Here comes the end of all romance!

    Therefore, for full happiness, the LSI needs the kind of romance that does not develop as a myth or a dream, and will not collapse like a mirage at the first encounter with reality.

    ...

    Dualizing with "a girl from the communal housing" is even preferable because it is here that the LSI has an opportunity to look closely at her and judge her ability to successfully exist within "system relations", observing all the rules of "communal living". (Life in a medieval castle, too, was organized according to the principle of "communal cohabitation", even though it was paid for by the feudal lord and followed rank differences: those closer to the elite had the most comforts and privileges. But the ability to live in communal housing – quietly, modestly, tidily, observing decorum, and not going beyond one's statute – would distinguish that girl who had every reason to establish the best opinion about herself (among the controlling structures), to get the best recommendation, to make a successful career, to earn the reputation of being "exemplary", "dutiful", "indispensable", and get closer to the "elite" in the shortest possible time. It is precisely such a wife, suitable for living in any enclosed and self-contained system, that the LSI will chose based on his calculations and sympathies.

    Such a girl the LSI will look for within his circle and in his league, relying on his powers of observation. (And his eye is sharp!). Such "diamond" he will look for to make her his life partner – a "modest diamond" of pure essence. From the way the girl/woman holds and behaves herself in the community – quietly, modestly, but with dignity and with clear understanding of her place in the system, while not losing it, not giving way to anyone, and defending her rights by lawful, normal, legitimate ways; by the way she knows how to be friendly with the people around her and respectful of elders; by the way she is able to allocate and spend the time doing useful and needed tasks (for successful existence in communal conditions); by the way she selects her inner circle from the most trustworthy and well brought up peers; by the way she organizes her leisure time, visiting theaters, museums, libraries – from all of this it becomes clear whether she would make an appropriate match for such "a person of the system" ("a man in a case") as is Maxim. Here, as a rule, either everything fits "one to one" (as in a good cliché) or doesn't match at all.

    The LSI will pick a girl/woman with an impeccable reputation, about whom no one has a bad word to say. (Otherwise, he won't be able to live with her – being the most socially oriented TIM, he is highly dependent on the opinion of people around him. The LSI chooses a decent inner circle, fearing "what if something happens" and safeguarding himself on the "vulnerable" function of negative intuition of potential, -Ne. Therefore, he won't look for a girlfriend among mischievous girls and dare-devils. (He bypasses them a mile away, trying not to have anything to do with them.) While LSI's fears of "what if something happens" have to be shared by his companion EIE (Hamlet), as the aspect of intuition of potential opportunities in this dyad is a repressed value. Therefore, the EIE woman also won't make friends with anyone who creates grounds for gossip (if she values her reputation, wants to remain in system, and to move up to privileged positions). For the EIE, as well as for the LSI, outside of the hierarchy there is no existence in the system, and "that soldier is a poor one, who doesn't want to become a general". Unaccompanied the woman EIE also wouldn't want to appear: due to extraversion and "aristocracy", and due to "decisive" and "negativist" traits (one needs support able to shield from potential trouble, because "what if something happens"). As a "strategist" and an "asking" type, that complicates attainment of the goal with obstacles, the EIE also doesn't want to be too easily accessible for Maxim. She first needs to test his resolve, determination, and patience. It is necessary to give the LSI a chance to think about his decision and his true intentions. Although disappointing him, cooling him down and making him indifferent, she also won't do. Her entourage is already sufficiently schooled and obeys her without question: appears and disappears upon the first request, and perfectly understands her hints and insinuations. Therefore, she will appear at the right time and in the right place (her intuition never fails) and the LSI gets an opportunity to use this chance.

    The partner seems to be flawless if she is able to mesmerize by her look and voice, by the energy of her words and of her expressions and gestures. (And all of it are attributes of the emotional expressiveness of EIE (Hamlet) - innate and acquired: taken note of and learned, tested and tried, honed to mastery, brought to the highest level of perfection.) Any EIE is able to learn good manners, movements, facial expressions and plastics, knowing that they will be useful in life. It is not necessary to visit the actor's studio for this; although Hamlet is pulled to theater, to cinema, to spectacles of all genres and levels, from an early childhood. EIEs are extremely observant – they notice and copy everything they find interesting in others: the characters, facial expressions, gestures, looks, gait and smile – and choose for themselves the model that seems most appropriate for the occasion, or the most natural and organic to their environment.

    ...

    Even with modest appearance, the EIE can impart a strong impression on the LSI without much difficulty. The problem lies in being a match to him on all the social parameters as well. (LSI is a person of the system. He/she is a system logical "aristocrat", who divides people on formal grounds: by social strata or rank, based on ethnic, religious, and ideological commonalities, by objectives and professions - prestigious, and not very. The LSI is a conformist: he doesn't go against the existing power and is not inclined to support the opposition. Although representatives of this TIM are found among dissidents, including opposition leaders, and function successfully in these circles, creating for themselves suitable eco-niches among the numbers of like-minded individuals.)

    LSI – the snob. LSI – the esthete. Comfort, well-maintained household, prestigious familiar connections and ties, popularity in society, high social status, and the dominating influence on environment – all of this is valuable to the LSI. Thus, in the process of dualization of this dyad, the program of correcting the social normatives gets turned on in order to "fit the desired to the real" – to work through everything that is needed to achieve the necessary level of psychological and social adaptation to their social environment – to the hierarchical system of relations within which their dual relations will develop further. For the LSI it is extremely important that his companion is received and treated as an equal in his circle, that he won't have to be ashamed for her and have to justify her behavior, or explain her awkward and unethical actions. For the LSI it is important that his companion "suits the court", the new for her system, that she is able to adequately and organically enter into it and become "one of own" for the most respected and revered members, that she is able to find the right and appropriate tone for her relationships with everyone.

    This task is complicated by the fact that both the LSI and the EIE are "obstinate" types. "Obstinacy" is one of their dyadic traits. Neither one nor the other is willing to lower the level of their requirements and demands. Furthermore, they don't allow their partners to lower their demands towards themselves either, and to be lenient towards their weaknesses and the weaknesses of others. Here, both being rational pragmatists (LSI on "observing" function of -Te and EIE on normative function of +Te) try to realistically estimate and weigh their own chances and the chances of their partner.

    3. Suggestive effect on the aspect of the ethics of emotions, Fe: in life of Maxim and Hamlet there is always a place for heroic feat.

    From the first minute of his meeting his dual, the EIE begins to orient the LSI towards some heroic deed – towards uncovering and implementing his forces and capabilities to their maximum – by trying to interest the LSI with himself, and with relations with him, and to instill in the LSI a deep belief and interest in the possible beneficial prospects that will become available to the LSI if he sets ambitious goals and wishes to achieve them.

    Why is this necessary for the EIE?

    The problem is that the LSI is timid (in the sense that he cannot go beyond what is permitted by the framework of the system). The LSI – is a realist, a sound-thinking pragmatist. He himself is not inclined to overestimate his strength and capabilities. He doesn't take on excessive responsibilities or jump higher than his head to grab one of the stars from heaven. Occupational or business adventure – is not his method. Maxim is not prone to adventurism. His motto is "slow and steady wins the race". The main thing – is to not be a burden to the system: to keep up and do everything in its time and in place. To not be dragging behind at the tail, to not be among the laggards, to not weigh down the team. Trying to "take another's seat" or to jump over the heads of "senior companions" the LSI also doesn't view as a possibility. These are not system relations, this goes against the rules of the system, within the system (especially if hierarchical) one does not act like this. (If someone discovers these inappropriate methods to gain promotion, there will be shame to no end – how will he later look his colleagues in the eye?)

    The EIE directs and moves the LSI to feasible adventures. Such as, for example, the implementation of a very daring creative, political, professional or social project. The EIE may lead him to the thought of an unequal (in hierarchical terms) marriage, that goes against the requirements of the system, which the LSI is used to consider and respect. However, the EIE waves away all of his doubts: what kind of knight is he, if he cannot work up the courage for one daring breakthrough, for one bold step or a daring deed, and at least once to go against the rules of the system? (If the LSI doesn't give in to this impulse – this means the effect on his "suggestive" function (i.e. the suggestion) didn't occur. In this case, the LSI will make the worst recommendation for himself in the eyes of his dual: he will appear as an "utterly unfeeling person" and a "traitor" with whom it's better not to have any business. The EIE can also motivate the LSI "on a dare". (And this is right, why shouldn't he at least once feel himself like a price able to marry his Cinderella?)

    What should be done to make a snob-LSI (for example, a young man from elite circles) to marry a simple girl from the communal housing?

    The EIE relies on ethics of emotions. He or she strives to make a lasting impression on the dual, with all his powers to ingrain into LSI's soul. But he does so solely by the power of emotions: by exceptionally expressive look, impelling intonations, emotional pathos, force and energy of speech, depth and expressiveness of thought. In every movement, gesture, gaze the EIE tries to be compelling - awe-inspiring, stunning, unforgettable. He operates on the principle: came, amazed and shocked, and conquered! (Mesmerized, fascinated, "broke through"!)

    The EIE does not say – he speaks. And "fans out" emotions to the maximum (+Fe). He plays artificially and theatrically (or with a touch of theatricality), but extremely impressively, sincerely, and deeply. The EIE himself believes what he is trying to express in such moments. He feels inspired himself and inspires the LSI in the process. The EIE is a player. Once he has chosen a suitable dual partner, he puts a lot at stake in this moment. He tries to be very convincing, being sure in advance (feeling intuitively) that the gullible and naive LSI won't take note of this excessive theatricality (with all attendant "special effects").** And not everyone takes not of it – only "program"ethical types notice the excessive pathos of Hamlet. While for Maxim, this is exactly what is needed for the full effect on his "suggestive" "dual-seeking" function (for the completeness of suggestion or persuasion). When the emotional impulse is weaker, these "signals" would have never made it through to the LSI or arrived with a huge delay, and the LSI would have remained indifferent to the "performance" of his dual. If the emotional impulse is too strong, the LSI considers that his dual is "over-playing". Usually, intuition allows the EIE to regulate precisely the extent and power of emotional pressure and still be plenty persuasive. EIE's emotions overtake and captivate the LSI, and there arises a feeling of emotional unity, an unbroken direct and reverse connection between them. And now the LSI fully trusts his dual and awaits, as if a miracle, a happy turn on his fate: finally, life has brought him together with the person for whom he has been searching and dreaming of meeting one day! Finally, he has found his "other half", and now his life will become happy and complete. Though the most important and difficult still lies ahead: the "Cinderella" needs to be led to the "palace", to his father's house (the hierarchical, matrix system), and "embedded" into the relationships of familiar to him people. One needs to watch how the new branch will take on the familial tree. One needs to arrange for himself and his new wife and future family a comfortable ecological niche, while not offending, angering, or pushing aside any of the "elders", as to not disturb the already existing relations and links in the system.
    Last edited by silke; 01-13-2016 at 06:52 AM. Reason: updated text

  2. #2
    peteronfireee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    TIM
    LSI
    Posts
    521
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    does anyone want to summarize/dumb it down/spark note this for me?

  3. #3
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peteronfireee View Post
    does anyone want to summarize/dumb it down/spark note this for me?
    Actually what makes it great is its extensiveness and attention to detail. If you care, you'll read it; I did.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  4. #4
    KanRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    TIM
    ENFj-Ni
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Is there possibly an equivalently detailed description for a male ENFj and female ISTj?

    As the majority of examples/explanations in the full translated article is greatly favored towards ISTj male and ENFj female... kinda leaving us ENFj guys in the dark here.
    Last edited by KanRen; 01-08-2017 at 09:25 PM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •