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Thread: How does Se Role manifest in IEEs?

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    How does Se Role manifest in IEEs? I don't quite get how the role function works out... based on some things I've read it sounds like something you struggle to be [or just appear?] confident at, but generally fail, and other sources indicate that you actually *can* actually be good at the role function... how does this work in IEEs? IEEs, how do you yourself use Se? How do you respond to Se? Please give examples, anecdotes, etc. Thanks!

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    I'd say it doesn't manifest itself very well at all in me lol. I'm always losing stuff, misplacing things, fumbling with items etc.

    I wouldn't say that Se is really "being confident" though, because then INXjs would have no confidence (not true in my experience). Everybody who isn't mentally unwell should be confident in whatever they're good at, so for Se valuers that ability would be an awareness and manipulation of their immediate environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctures View Post
    I'd say it doesn't manifest itself very well at all in me lol. I'm always losing stuff, misplacing things, fumbling with items etc.
    Hmm... do you seek to be a leader [and is that even related to Se?]? How do you act or feel if you had to direct people, give orders, take orders, etc.?

    I wouldn't say that Se is really "being confident" though, because then INXjs would have no confidence (not true in my experience). Everybody who isn't mentally unwell should be confident in whatever they're good at, so for Se valuers that ability would be an awareness and manipulation of their immediate environment.
    Ah, I'm glad you said this -- I meant confidence in that IE [so confidence in Se for IEEs], not confidence in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Something is wrong with the title of your thread...
    Se PoLR is in EII and LII
    That's right, and I'm asking about *Se Role,* as indicated in the thread title

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    How does Se Role manifest in IEEs? I don't quite get how the role function works out... based on some things I've read it sounds like something you struggle to be [or just appear?] confident at, but generally fail, and other sources indicate that you actually *can* actually be good at the role function... how does this work in IEEs? IEEs, how do you yourself use Se? How do you respond to Se? Please give examples, anecdotes, etc. Thanks!
    I remember reading somewhere that IEEs will respond to Se with a show of their own Se, and I find that does hold very true for me in certain situations, namely I've noticed it's when the other person's Se is targeting Fi or Te or constraining me in some way or keeping me from getting something important done because of some triviality. I've also brought the Se out when my students demonstrate themselves to be lazy/cocky. It's also more likely to come out when i'm sleep-deprived and irritable.

    That said, I have to say using Se takes a lot out of me, and isn't the most quality Se out there. My Se can come out crude and hurtful, sometimes more so than i intended. Alternatively, it can come out weak, silly and have no effect whatsoever other than making me look ridiculous. So, often I will just let things go. But it really is a crapshoot, to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    Ah, I'm glad you said this -- I meant confidence in that IE [so confidence in Se for IEEs], not confidence in general.
    Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh I gotcha

    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    Hmm... do you seek to be a leader [and is that even related to Se?]? How do you act or feel if you had to direct people, give orders, take orders, etc.?
    Hmm, this is kind of a tough question. I'm hesitant to say that Se is associated with leadership. At least for me I feel like my ability to lead is contingent on knowing what has to be done and how to do it; if I have that down then I think I can be a pretty effective leader, and I'll be able to tell people what to do knowing that I know what I'm talking about. I do find that in groups I tend to speak out more and bring my ideas out, but that could just be extroversion in general. I wouldn't say I seek to be a leader per se, but it's more that if I'm comfortable with the role of leader in any specific situation, as determined by the aforementioned prerequisites, then I'll kinda slide into it and deal with it alright.

    In short, I guess comfort in leadership for me is more dependent on Te than Se, due to my desire to understand how things should be done.
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    I think there is confidence in Se, regardless if there is any real focus to develop it. It's not something that you have completely no clue about what you should do in certain situations, or don't really stress about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctures View Post
    I'd say it doesn't manifest itself very well at all in me lol. I'm always losing stuff, misplacing things, fumbling with items etc.

    I wouldn't say that Se is really "being confident" though, because then INXjs would have no confidence (not true in my experience). Everybody who isn't mentally unwell should be confident in whatever they're good at, so for Se valuers that ability would be an awareness and manipulation of their immediate environment.
    Oh is that part of Se? If so, i am terrible with such things as well. Sometimes i get my act together for a few days after forgetting this and that and being stressed when i can't find something.

    I still fumble though. I've started being patient with myself and making myself set things down and empty my hands a bit, so that i'm not carrying 20 things and dropping stuff, because it can just get too overwhelming.

    I do have issues with confidence too. I think that is part of Se actually, but probably not the only function that underlies confidence. Perhaps in LIIs their Ti may come across as confidence, or maybe those people are actually ILI's? Also, perhaps the LIIs you know were forced to develop some Se for whatever reason. I definitely know some LIIs and they are NOT confident at all (in the relative sense). My EII sister sort of has that same kind of demeanor as the LIIs i know, and growing up i've also found myself speaking for the both of us or sticking up for her. However, she has developed some Se and a more confident appearance as the years go by, out of necessity--both are still noticeably weak though compared to others.
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    Se, in my opinion, is not so much as using force as it is a recognition of a certain energy expansion process, which does not happen in a confine/directed nature as Te does (very much like a box per box kind of thinking), but much like it is in a circle (all around, or in many directions at once rather then in boxes, confined ways); as a role function, Se is not a strong function so, unlike Se leadings, Se roles are sometimes misdirected in how to use or expand their energy. The Se Role people can get confused about which objects to hold and go for and which direction they should move towards as it relates to the outside objective world.

    Se got a bad wrap for "force" in classical literature, in my opinion, because of observation of "go get" it attitude; it's so stupid to use this word "force" for Se types. It is really a realization of objective goals, sometimes direct and sometimes impulsive but not purposefully forceful
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 05-17-2010 at 03:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctures View Post
    I'd say it doesn't manifest itself very well at all in me lol. I'm always losing stuff, misplacing things, fumbling with items etc.
    Actually, I wonder if this is really related (or exclusive) to Se role. My SEE friend (who used to be my best friend and is still probably the most loyal person I can count on) is pretty much like what you described. He's constantly losing stuff, forgetting and misplacing things (esp. small ones), and is generally rough and inattentive to that type of details, esp. concerning objects and physical movement. When we're going out or doing something together, I am usually the one who looks after his cellphone, wallet, keys, making sure he locks the door or doesn't forget something etc. He's energetic and driven, and once he gets in action he neglects the Si-related stuff on account of Se/Ni.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Actually, I wonder if this is really related (or exclusive) to Se role. My SEE friend (who used to be my best friend and is still probably the most loyal person I can count on) is pretty much like what you described. He's constantly losing stuff, forgetting and misplacing things (esp. small ones), and is generally rough and inattentive to that type of details concerning objects and physical movement. When we're going out or doing something together, I am usually the one who looks after his cellphone, wallet, keys, making sure he locks the door or doesn't forget something etc. He's energetic and driven, and once he gets in action he neglects the Si-related stuff on account of Se/Ni.
    I think it may be over extension of energy, which is very common for SEE to do because they can take on way too much.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 05-17-2010 at 04:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I think it may be over extension of energy, which is very common for SEE to do because they can take on way too much.
    It sort of is, actually. For instance, while I care about handling physical things with just the right amount of force as to not create unnecessary friction or physical damage, he's somewhat reckless and breaks stuff easily by applying an inappropriate amount of force.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    It sort of is, actually. While I care about handling physical things with just the right amount of force as to not create unnecessary friction or physical damage, he's somewhat reckless, applies inappropriate amount of force and breaks stuff easily.
    This same "reckless" use of energy expansion also translates to careless driving and walking...lol; sorry, but it may have an argument in this favor. But, think about it, if it is true then we can take or build cars with better safety just for SEE types-?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    This same "reckless" use of energy expansion also translates to careless driving and walking...lol; sorry, but it may have an argument in this favor. But, think about it, if it is true then we can take or build cars with better safety just for SEE types-?
    As a matter of fact, my SEE friend is one of the best drivers I know. I'd let him drive me at 200 mph on a busy country road without worrying a bit.

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    Last edited by Park; 05-17-2010 at 04:58 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    As a matter of fact, my SEE friend is one of the best drivers I know. I'd let him drive me at 200 mph without worrying a bit.
    Oh good. Maybe it's an LA, busy street issue with my friends then...or another issue to explore, with a few of my SEE friends.

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    I think I view a little differently... I see it as the assessment of objects in their current state, as opposed to which is concerned with possible states. I translate this in the role positions by engaging with people or events with a plan on what it could possibly become, or what I want it to become, rather than what it is. For example, I think I have a tendency to act towards a person how I ultimately want our relationship to be rather than what it is, which sometimes makes people uncomfortable because I act too close too quickly. Or I overlook on a lot of details because I assume or guess about a job or whatever just by what I already know, because I trust my projection and gut rather than going back to my experience.

    I try to compare this with my interaction with SeFi, especially my mother. I remember how she used to get frustrated with me because I couldn't see what was obvious to her, and a lot of times went through a process a round-about way because I didn't just settle down and absorb the details. I feel like I have to stop and switch gears in order to to pay attention to this sort of information, almost as if I was dumb and being given a tutorial on something that seemed like it wouldn't be that useful. When I focus too much on my , I'm usually removed and sullen, because it takes a different kind of focus and eventually makes me cranky. This can cause problems in certain relationships too, because it is like once I've gotten used to the idea of where I think a relationship is going to go, how I can I go back to step 1 all over again?

    in role still seems to have the "taken for granted" sort of quality, as opposed to which has a more active and applicable role. I don't think it really has to do with being a leader, or aggression, or co-ordination at all... It is awareness of details. One possible counter-argument for role is that I find in the SeFi I know (mainly my mother) that when information on a subject or tool is absent, or there's too much to digest in one gulp, they tend to be lost and don't have the natural tendency to project the possible ways to deal with whatever they have encountered. Once they do get a handle on what it is they are dealing with, then it's another story, they become super proficient.

    I would say that for -leads, their role function most likely manifests when the reality of a situation butts against the projections they have been implementing in their minds, and have to stop, see what actually is going on, and then switch back into mode. It's not something they'll like to do, because it feels like taking a step backwards before taking 2 steps forward. For NeFi, the easiest would be to examine a relationship that isn't going as planned, or what they thought would (or want to?) develop. They will eventually understand that they are gripping onto a possibility and not paying attention to the current stage of development it is in, and try to accept a new way of looking/acting before reverting back to the new path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    I think I view a little differently... I see it as the assessment of objects in their current state, as opposed to which is concerned with possible states. I translate this in the role positions by engaging with people or events with a plan on what it could possibly become, or what I want it to become, rather than what it is. For example, I think I have a tendency to act towards a person how I ultimately want our relationship to be rather than what it is, which sometimes makes people uncomfortable because I act too close too quickly. Or I overlook on a lot of details because I assume or guess about a job or whatever just by what I already know, because I trust my projection and gut rather than going back to my experience.

    I try to compare this with my interaction with SeFi, especially my mother. I remember how she used to get frustrated with me because I couldn't see what was obvious to her, and a lot of times went through a process a round-about way because I didn't just settle down and absorb the details. I feel like I have to stop and switch gears in order to to pay attention to this sort of information, almost as if I was dumb and being given a tutorial on something that seemed like it wouldn't be that useful. When I focus too much on my , I'm usually removed and sullen, because it takes a different kind of focus and eventually makes me cranky. This can cause problems in certain relationships too, because it is like once I've gotten used to the idea of where I think a relationship is going to go, how I can I go back to step 1 all over again?

    in role still seems to have the "taken for granted" sort of quality, as opposed to which has a more active and applicable role. I don't think it really has to do with being a leader, or aggression, or co-ordination at all... It is awareness of details. One possible counter-argument for role is that I find in the SeFi I know (mainly my mother) that when information on a subject or tool is absent, or there's too much to digest in one gulp, they tend to be lost and don't have the natural tendency to project the possible ways to deal with whatever they have encountered. Once they do get a handle on what it is they are dealing with, then it's another story, they become super proficient.

    I would say that for -leads, their role function most likely manifests when the reality of a situation butts against the projections they have been implementing in their minds, and have to stop, see what actually is going on, and then switch back into mode. It's not something they'll like to do, because it feels like taking a step backwards before taking 2 steps forward. For NeFi, the easiest would be to examine a relationship that isn't going as planned, or what they thought would (or want to?) develop. They will eventually understand that they are gripping onto a possibility and not paying attention to the current stage of development it is in, and try to accept a new way of looking/acting before reverting back to the new path.
    So you are inflicted with self doubt when faced with a possible relationship?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    So you are inflicted with self doubt when faced with a possible relationship?
    No, not really. What you bolded was in reflection of an already "developed" relationship, or lets say, a relationship of any sort that has been perceived by me to already have begun, and has acquired qualities along the way. I easily project where I see things going, and while I don't necessarily make the relationship move in that direction, my behavior is more receptive toward that direction, or, my observations are tailored in that manner. This sounds rather over-simplified, but I overlook the importance of what a relationship just is for what it could be.

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    I existed in a sphere that demanded my constant use of Se-role for upwards of 4 years. No wonder i'm burnt out!

    But yes pinocchio what you describe is exactly what i do. the trying to fake objective evidence in a skeptical environment, the appearing calm, together, clear-headed in urgent situations. (of which there were many)
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