Questions for SLEs/ESTps

[Beautiful sky]

Hello,

I am trying to type an SLE by written document and I was wondering what SLE think of the following:

Also, If you know an SLE who will contribute to my questions, it would help me very much. Thanks

1. Do you have problem loving others?
2. Do you have a problem realizing the state of the relationship between you and other people?
3. Can you tell if someone is interested in you romantically or not (usually by hints).
4. Do you need clear verbal assurance that they are interested in you?
5. Do you always assume that you are friends with people?
6. Do you find it oblivious that your actions can be interpreted as advances?
7. Does it occur to you that your actions can be interpreted?
8. Do you normally interact with people with clear intentions: as in state them to them rather then expect that the other person will make the advances towards you?
9. Do you ask about the persons intentions when relevant to you?
10. Do you rush to get into a sealed relationship once you have found someone "desirable"?

[JWC3]

1. Do you have problem loving others? Not at all, Do have problems expressing it though
2. Do you have a problem realizing the state of the relationship between you and other people? Not really. I do if I'm forced to think about it though. To me I can find the way to describe the state of a relationship I'm in if I'm not looking for it. It's a lot like how you get those dots in the very edge of your peripheral vision and you can only see them when you aren't looking directly at them.
3. Can you tell if someone is interested in you romantically or not (usually by hints). Sorta? From what I can tell most SLEs are so good with body language that this is terribly easy. For me personally, I can't really tell if someone is interested in me but frankly I could care less if they are or not. It's not about how they feel about me, it's about how I feel about them.
4. Do you need clear verbal assurance that they are interested in you? Need? No. However assurance from a trustworthy source is always nice. This could vary depending on the "health" of the SLE though.
5. Do you always assume that you are friends with people? LOL See question 2, I'm not really sure how to answer this.
6. Do you find it oblivious that your actions can be interpreted ad advances? This question is worded very poorly, and Interpreted by who? I know when I'm making advances on another person I'm pretty straightforward and even borderline blunt, I doubt there is much ambiguity when it comes to what I want from people.
7. Does it occur to you that your actions can be interpreted? Yes, I know it happens but I don't think about it and it's still is interesting as fuck to me when people give me their interpretations of what I'm doing.
8. Do you normally interact with people with clear intentions: as in state them to them rather then expect that the other person will make the advances towards you? I don't really expect the other person to advance on me at all, granted it's always nice when that happens but at the same time if a girl was to initiate a relationship with me by being forward I'm sure any relationship that would come from that wouldn't last long. And while I can and do state my intentions being verbal isn't always necessary for being clear and well understood.
9. Do you ask about the persons intentions when relevant to you? Yes
10. Do you rush to get into a sealed relationship once you have found someone "desirable"? Maybe? I could see this happening but the tone of the question makes me rather hesitant to admit that it is the case.

My answers in Bold

[Beautiful sky]

My answers in Bold

Please discuss number 10 and also please interpret the tone appropriate to you and answer based on that tone, thank you.

[JWC3]

Please discuss number 10 and also please interpret the tone appropriate to you and answer based on that tone, thank you.

Ask nicely.

[JWC3]

Interesting.
All I have to do is ask my dual and I don't have to ask nicely because it's assumed that we care when we address one another, and no formal or formality with "kindness" or tone except cursing or direct slurs and insults need to be provided in order for our communication to continue. We can be more direct and not get hurt by each other's tone. However, with SLE and LSI, I need to be "nice" and "polite" in my tone of addressing in order to get anywhere peaceful with them.

JWC3, would you kindly address number ten in my question? Thank you.

See that's the thing though, you didn't ask me you told me. The only reason I wanted you to ask nicely is because you didn't ask at all in the first place. You could have asked sternly the first time so long as it was still a question (And you could have found a way to ask something in a stern tone of voice... That would be weird). So long story short (But not really), you don't need to be nice and polite to beta STs that notion is so incorrect that Nostradamus probably predicted it but you certainly don't give orders to Beta ST's especially if you have no power over them and they don't respect you which is the case here.

However in reference to your last question, since you did indeed ask nicely, If I find a girl who I think is "Desirable" then, yes I probably would do every thing in my power to take her off the market as quickly as possible. Granted I'm kinda going through a phase right now where I don't do relationships, but that's a different story.

[silverchris9]

Interesting.
All I have to do is ask my dual and I don't have to ask nicely because it's assumed that we care when we address one another, and no formal or formality with "kindness" or tone except cursing or direct slurs and insults need to be provided in order for our communication to continue. We can be more direct and not get hurt by each other's tone. However, with SLE and LSI, I need to be "nice" and "polite" in my tone of addressing in order to get anywhere peaceful with them.

JWC3, would you kindly address number ten in my question? Thank you.

*It would really bother me to be in a relationship with an SLE because I am very direct and that's how I want to be*...LOL

sigh. People always feel that way. I feel like I have to be nice and polite when dealing with LSEs. How did "nice and polite" become a word for "not like I want to be"?

[Ezra]

Oooh I love quizzes.

1. Do you have problem loving others? Absolutely not. I just rarely love
2. Do you have a problem realizing the state of the relationship between you and other people? Basically no, as long as they provide me with clear emotional signals
3. Can you tell if someone is interested in you romantically or not (usually by hints). Generally, yes, it's obvious if I'm conversing with them
4. Do you need clear verbal assurance that they are interested in you? No, their actions tell me
5. Do you always assume that you are friends with people? No, although I'm generally friendly with most people
6. Do you find it oblivious that your actions can be interpreted as advances? I couldn't care less - if I'm hitting on them I'll get them, if I don't want them then I don't care if they think I want them
7. Does it occur to you that your actions can be interpreted? Not until after I've acted
8. Do you normally interact with people with clear intentions: as in state them to them rather then expect that the other person will make the advances towards you? Errr I guess
9. Do you ask about the persons intentions when relevant to you? What the hell does that mean?
10. Do you rush to get into a sealed relationship once you have found someone "desirable"? Yeah.

[silverchris9]

you don't need to be nice and polite to beta STs that notion is so incorrect that Nostradamus probably predicted it but you certainly don't give orders to Beta ST's especially if you have no power over them and they don't respect you which is the case here.

hahahaha.

Also, I think that's true of betas in general.

[Satan]

hahahaha.

Also, I think that's true of betas in general.

I'm sure you'll be on your knees at the earliest convenience.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't see people as having power over any individual; I see life as a shared effort.

[shakealittle]

I would say SLEs make people earn their respect, and once they have proved themselves, I'd say they would be loyal to them in a way they know how to be.

[Satan]

I don't see people as having power over any individual; I see life as a shared effort.

blah blah you're full of shit

[Crispy]

I just noticed how hilarious conflicting relations are from the outside.

[Ezra]

I don't see people as having power over any individual; I see life as a shared effort.

Maritsa, like it or not, there are the weak and the directionless who CRAVE, respectively, being commanded and the direction from an SLE. Shared effort is bullshit, you take everyone's opinion into consideration nothing will get done. It's a stupid idea.

[Ezra]

I do have to say, you did sound like a condescending asshole in that previous post. It has nothing to do with type.

She thinks it does, that's why she calls herself an EII. She thinks she's moralising barbarous SLEs with her preaching. Little does she know that everything she does points firmly towards EIE, and... DISCOJOE'S DUAL!

[Mattie]

You know, I've some to really enjoy SeTi company lately

[Beautiful sky]

She thinks it does, that's why she calls herself an EII. She thinks she's moralising barbarous SLEs with her preaching. Little does she know that everything she does points firmly towards EIE, and... DISCOJOE'S DUAL!

You have one part of this statement as a true statment...
But since you neither comprehend nor know a damn about socionics and how it really works in real life and that you have typed yourself incorrectly must show some parts of your statement to be false as well.

[crazedrat]

Maritsa isn't EIE. EIEs are more sane. Look at her - she's insane.

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa, like it or not, there are the weak and the directionless who CRAVE, respectively, being commanded and the direction from an SLE. Shared effort is bullshit, you take everyone's opinion into consideration nothing will get done. It's a stupid idea.

Commanding and directing people in a task is Te One step closer to proof of LIE. Se could care less about commanding/demanding people to do things. They might complain that you don't put in your fair share of duties, but as far as directing ...hah, fat chance, but then there's a possibility of having a power trip arise from being in a position of authority for SLE type.

[silverchris9]

Commanding and directing people in a task is Te One step closer to proof of LIE. Se could care less about commanding/demanding people to do things. They might complain that you don't put in your fair share of duties, but as far as directing ...hah, fat chance.

...Se is all about leadership...

[Beautiful sky]

...Se is all about leadership...

So is Te...I just have to think about how they are different leaders.

[silverchris9]

Here, I edited my post to explain what I think, but you replied before I finished editing. lol. Sorry!


Se egos are noted particularly for making great leaders. Otherwise, why is the mascot for SLE a general (Zhukov)? They are all about giving commands (but not in a bad way... if you're an Ni-ego). I do agree that they won't direct you, if by direction you mean, explanation of how you should deal with minutia, of the sort that would be important to a Te ego, but that an Se ego would consider irrelevant to the goal. But commanding people is one of the places where Se-egos most shine, especially beta STs. What I get a lot from beta STs is specific directives as to what to do in the moment, what action I should take right then.

[Beautiful sky]

Here, I edited my post to explain what I think, but you replied before I finished editing. lol. Sorry!


Se egos are noted particularly for making great leaders. Otherwise, why is the mascot for SLE a general (Zhukov)? They are all about giving commands (but not in a bad way... if you're an Ni-ego). I do agree that they won't direct you, if by direction you mean, explanation of how you should deal with minutia, of the sort that would be important to a Te ego, but that an Se ego would consider irrelevant to the goal. But commanding people is one of the places where Se-egos most shine, especially beta STs. What I get a lot from beta STs is specific directives as to what to do in the moment, what action I should take right then.

Delta ST's can be this way too...there are too many overlapping contridictions. Delta ST can be demanding as well as Betas.

*calling on Ti primary to eliminate contridictions please* lol

[silverchris9]

Delta ST's can be this way too...there are too many overlapping contridictions. Delta ST can be demanding as well as Betas.

*calling on Ti primary to eliminate contridictions please* lol

Oh, yeah, I'm not disputing that. I was just trying to give an example of how I tend to get commands from beta STs. I think the differences tend to be more in the style of the command and the kinds of things they'll tell you to do. Also, there's a thread somewhere about delta STs and "leaking Se," which details a lot of common beta complaints about delta ST leadership. If I weren't so lazy, I'd go look it up. Shrug.

[Ezra]

You have one part of this statement as a true statment...
But since you neither comprehend nor know a damn about socionics and how it really works in real life and that you have typed yourself incorrectly must show some parts of your statement to be false as well.

Commanding and directing people in a task is Te One step closer to proof of LIE. Se could care less about commanding/demanding people to do things. They might complain that you don't put in your fair share of duties, but as far as directing ...hah, fat chance, but then there's a possibility of having a power trip arise from being in a position of authority for SLE type.

lol @ you maritsa.

Let's take a gander at Aushra, the founder of socionics theory, shall we?

Black (extraverted) sensing

Perceives information about what might be called objects' "kinetic energy" — for example, information about how organized/mobilized a person is, his physical energy and power, and his ability to make use of his willpower or position and exercise his will in opposition to others'. This perception implies the ability to tell what reserves of "kinetic energy" people have and how useful they can be in getting things done. It defines the individual's ability or inability to exercise his willpower and energy in opposition to the will and energy of other people.

When this element is in the leading position, the individual possesses exceptional personal force/will. He is a born organizer of anything. He has the ability to mobilize people to achieve a goal and is able to make use of and manage animate and inanimate objects. Is able to work with things (objects) and reproduce almost any objects based on available samples. This is a reflection of his ability to organize material. These people are known for their striving to materialize their will, energy, and power, and for their desire to impose their will on others.

So, sorry, what was that about Se types not liking to direct?

Secondly, do yourself a favour and read some of the articles found here: Socionics in the West

You might earn some respect in this community for knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

[Beautiful sky]

lol @ you maritsa.

ezra

ok that was ridiculous of me to say, but Te tyes like to direct too.
See all this overlapping info now...

Te can direct work too...
Te can organize and mobalize a person, That's why TeSi are called directors...kinda like you.
Difference between Te and Se in my opinion is that Se is far more pushy to get others to use energy that they might not have and Te is better directed at recognizing structured energy.
Te is also very capable of getting others to excersize will power, except they are much gentler, in observation then Se type...at least from my perspective, because once and Se gets going they just keep moving uncontrollably and that is just too much movement.
Te is also a born organizer of anything because the whole thing about Te is that it can make things function efficiently, with a good method.



Extraverted sensing is also called Volitional Sensing, or Space-capturing Sensing.

This sensing function directs to occupation of space. People with this strong function are usually demanding people, which like when other people fulfill their wishes and demands. Sometimes they become managers, and sometimes – good sellers that can sell even unnecessary things. They often (but not always) have athletic, somewhat roundish figure, quick and demanding eyes. They are very persistent in the life: "If I want, then it should be achieved”, and they often gladly help other people – those who accept their leadership. Their outbursts of anger may fear some people, but in fact they are short-term – in several minutes they become calm again and restore their good mood.




Extraverted logic is also called Processual or Practical Logic.

It estimates everything in terms of efficiency: not abstract analysis, but "how to make it work?", and not systems, but methods. They are energetic, active, and mobile. As scientists, they are strong in improvement of methods, but often they choose a business career. However, people who work together with them, often blame these types of being "too dry, cold-hearted", even in spite of their high emotionality. In general, this type of thinking may be called “algorithmic”.

[Beautiful sky]

Ezra, you have been mistyped, please read the below...thanks.

Secondary introverted logic (the types ENTp and ESTp, XXX-logical extraverts)

They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (ENTj and ESTj with the dominant extraverted logic) for their activity and logical way of thinking. The difference is, that both Seeker and Commander are spontaneous types, who do not like to adapt to procedures. Their thinking is conceptual, not methodological; often they can even contradict to what they just have said, but they do not accept such reproaches: “What happened, I just considered the situation from different viewpoints!” Commanders (sensory) often are good as crisis managers, military commanders, heads of the state in crisis situations (Churchill, Lenin, Napoleon Bonaparte), but quickly get bored of complicated procedures that exist in peaceful democratic states. They often like “cat-and-mouse” logical discussion, where important is not to find the truth but to win, to “kill” the opponent with arguments. Seekers (intuitive) often become scientists and specialists who present interesting concepts, but very rarely (and often with somebody else's help) they succeed to transform their concepts into working technologies and methods. Their activity is not even: sometimes they are super-active, sometimes fall into periods of depression.

Methods is:

systematic thinking
systematic plan
plan devising based on systems...
a way
a technique
a process of
a process for doing something...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/methods

Conceptual is big picture thinking based on ideas not methods, neglect of details, big ideas vrs small ones, forest and not trees...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concepts


the differences between Te and Se are big and the reason why you are not in Beta.

[Beautiful sky]

Secondary introverted intuition (the types ENTj and ENFj, XXX-intuitive extraverts)

They may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (ENTp and ENFp with the dominant extraverted intuition) for their intellectualism and ingenuity, for the abstract manner of explaining their views, for speaking a lot about “possibilities” and future perspectives, for having a lot of ideas concerning how thing should go on correctly.

To understand the difference, let us consider a row of people representing the types ENTj and ENFj, i.e. with introverted intuition as the secondary function. This function entails certain kind of “prophet-like” or “preacher-like” behavior. Such people believe in magnificent perspectives, and they try to transfer their belief to other people, even when the situation is really bad and gloomy. A common trait that united them all – their “prophet-like” behavior, their capability to “infect” people with belief in the future, even when several minutes ago people were much dissatisfied of them.


I can see how ENTj would be misrepresented for Se valuing Ni because the part where it talks about concentrating on Future possibilities is something that both ENTj's and ESTp's value.

[redbaron]

Maritsa, have you VI'd Ezra?

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa, have you VI'd Ezra?

I read his posts.

I did VI him, but way after. He had such a methodical way of thinking and presenting information with value and emphasis on Ni that I wasn't sure about him being SLE; my experiance of SLE is nothing like him...or how he spoke and treated me.

This post is a good example...his whole thread here is a good example...

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/623441-post17.html

In this post I project Ne thoughts on Socionics and where I see the possibility of it heading...he uses Te to say no that's not part of objective reality and furthermore it's not part of current objective reality and if he did value Ne he would see other possibilities then just my projection of this one possible situation...like how my dual would be prompted to think about what I said in the given situation.

[redbaron]

lol!

[thePirate]

ok that was ridiculous of me to say,

EVERYTHING you say is ridiculous you stupid bitch

you dont know ezra and you dont know socionics

STOP TYPING PPL

[Ezra]

often they can even contradict to what they just have said, but they do not accept such reproaches: “What happened, I just considered the situation from different viewpoints!” Commanders (sensory) often are good as crisis managers, military commanders, heads of the state in crisis situations (Churchill, Lenin, Napoleon Bonaparte), but quickly get bored of complicated procedures that exist in peaceful democratic states.

That's actually such a good description of me it's almost a caricature.

[Marie84]

It's to be expected that she's typing Beta ST's as Te and Si ego's, which correlates into her own backwards understanding of Model A

[Joy]

1. Do you have problem loving others?

I'm not entirely sure I know what that means. It could mean a lot of things. I know that I have an unconditional love for immediate family members, particularly my son.

2. Do you have a problem realizing the state of the relationship between you and other people?

Yes.

3. Can you tell if someone is interested in you romantically or not (usually by hints).

I can tell when I have their attention. However, that could be "hey, not too bad *shrug*" or "omg I want her babies" or anything in between, and I can't really tell.

4. Do you need clear verbal assurance that they are interested in you?

Absolutely. At least at this point in my life. You have to just flat out tell me what's going on or I don't get it. I tend to be paranoid about people's intentions, too.

5. Do you always assume that you are friends with people?

No. They either have to tell me that we're friends or I have to spend enough time/conversation with them that there's no possible way we couldn't be. Even in either of those cases it's fuzzy though. There's gotta be both in order for me to believe it, I guess? I can think of one or two exceptions.

6. Do you find it oblivious that your actions can be interpreted as advances?

YES. People always accuse me of flirting when from my perspective I'm clearly not. I'm just being nice. I'm just like, "I'm the kind of person where it's like, 'Trust me, if I'm into you, you'll know it.' There will be no mistaking." This isn't invariably true as sometimes my hands are tied by circumstances, but if both people are available and there are no significant reasons why something shouldn't happen and I want it to happen, I try to make it happen. Not immediately, but once I've made up my mind.

7. Does it occur to you that your actions can be interpreted?

of course

8. Do you normally interact with people with clear intentions: as in state them to them rather then expect that the other person will make the advances towards you?

Yeah, but it doesn't get to that point unless I've been sufficiently encouraged. I'll try to make something physical happen before I'll talk about how I feel though. Even if someone flat out asks me how I feel about them and I want to communicate openly, it's extremely difficult for me to verbalize it. I'm not often not entirely sure, and even when I think I am I tend worry that things I say will be misinterpreted.

9. Do you ask about the persons intentions when relevant to you?

Never. I always wish I knew, but I don't ask. It would feel weird, and I wouldn't know how to interpret their response anyways so it would be useless and probably cause some sort of problem.

10. Do you rush to get into a sealed relationship once you have found someone "desirable"?

I have in the past. That's been a big problem for me, actually. Committing too quickly to the wrong people. Now I'm just hanging back and taking some time for myself. I even pushed away an opportunity to hook up with a dual recently (and no, it's not the "IEI friend" I referred to in previous posts). There were some really good reasons not to get involved though, lol. (Just because someone's your dual and there's a mutual physical attraction doesn't mean you should get involved.) I guess I've learned my lesson? Or at least I hope I have, lol. Getting in is so easy. Getting out is so hard. I'm gonna watch my step.

[Joy]

Maritsa, like it or not, there are the weak and the directionless who CRAVE, respectively, being commanded and the direction from an SLE. Shared effort is bullshit, you take everyone's opinion into consideration nothing will get done. It's a stupid idea.

While there are definitely people who need and appreciate direction and it's a waste of time to powwow about everyone's thoughts on every matter, I think it's important to take everyone's needs/position/responsibilities in a situation into consideration. What they want isn't always relevant though. People want things for stupid reasons sometimes.

[Gilly]

Joy answering questions on behalf of SLEs is like a high school girl wanting to participating in a scientific study about lesbians because she made out with her best friend the night before.

[Ezra]

It's to be expected that she's typing Beta ST's as Te and Si ego's, which correlates into her own backwards understanding of Model A

I think it's important to take everyone's needs/position/responsibilities in a situation into consideration.

Needs: "that man is disabled, he cannot lift anything" is as far as I'll go regarding needs. They're pretty straightforward.

Position: if I'm in a position to command them, why does this even need to be considered?

Responsibilities: they'll take what responsibilities I'll give them.

[Satan]

Joy answering questions on behalf of SLEs is like a high school girl wanting to participating in a scientific study about lesbians because she made out with her best friend the night before.

At least the school girl actually tried doing it. She's more like an old homeless guy saying he could be president one day.

[Beautiful sky]

It's to be expected that she's typing Beta ST's as Te and Si ego's, which correlates into her own backwards understanding of Model A

You're such a jerk.
Smilingeyes said it and now I am saying it; it's because you're not EII.
You're mean malicious and conceited jerk.