Preoccupation with not lying

[JWC3]

Does any one else have a pre-occupation with not lying? I absolutely hate lying to other people. If some one tells me they love me, and I don't feel it I wont say it back. If I absolutely abhor spending time with someone, I tell them to fuck off. That's not to say things never change, in the "I love you example" of course I'd say it when I feel it.

This bar on lying has gotten me into a lot of sticky situations, but I still can't bring myself to lie to someone even if it's to make them feel better. Or maybe a better less egotistical way to put it is that I refuse to pretend to posses feelings that I don't.

That's not to say If some one says "I miss you!" I'd respond with "I don't miss you!" I'm more likely to change the subject or respond with something abstract like "<3"

The only exception I've found is generally speaking I have a really hard time not saying "I missed you too" When people say they miss me... Which bugs the shit out of me since I rarely if ever miss anyone.

[Gilly]

I lie almost instinctively when dealing with people I don't care about and have something to gain by doing so. Other than that, I bend the truth sometimes, but I will never outright lie to a loved one unless I absolutely have to and know they would understand.

This is not including white lies and minor embellishments; those go wherever necessary. I take artistic license with a great deal of my speech, with the exception of relating important life experiences or other weighty, important subjects.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'm the same way. Honest to a fault.

But that only hurts you. I mean you have to lie sometimes really to protect your own ass, or to get what you want in the future. I notice people who have high positions in society lie so easily and so crazily, I wish I could do that sometimes but I don't really care enough to.

Which bugs the shit out of me since I rarely if ever miss anyone.

I think everybody is just like that. I only met 4 people before in the entire world who I miss when they're gone.

[DirectorAbbie]

I have a preoccupation with not lying. It includes grammar. If someone asks how I'm doing and I say, "good," I'm probably lying. Is getting annoyed with people for asking a question when they don't care about the answer really a good thing to do? If I'm gonna lie without feeling guilty, I have to say something that anyone with common sense knows is a lie.

[Beautiful sky]

I am a stickler for being exceptionally honest. I will not fudge at all. I will hate myself for doing so if I did it without notice, which I will consciously not do.

[IEI]

If some one tells me they love me, and I don't feel it I wont say it back. If I absolutely abhor spending time with someone, I tell them to fuck off. This bar on lying has gotten me into a lot of sticky situations, but I still can't bring myself to lie to someone even if it's to make them feel better. Or maybe a better less egotistical way to put it is that I refuse to pretend to posses feelings that I don't.

.

I am the opposite (sort of). I only really lie to make someone feel better i.e. I like your haircut.... no of course you're baby isn't ugly. However if I'm asked for my opinion and it's something they can change there and then and they have immediate control over the offending item then I will tell the truth. The way I see it is there is no point in telling them the truth and making them feel bad for months but I wouldn't want someone to look terrible in a bad outfit because of my lie if they could avoid it.

I will never lie about how I feel about someone romatically or go out my way to butter someone up with lies (just compliments that have grains of truth). I only socialize and spend time with people I genuinely like (unless I'm at forced social events i.e. weddings).

I am incapable of lying about anything to do with my work, I can't shift the blame onto some poor innocent victim like some people I have observed. I always own up if I am aware of a mistake I have made (probably not always aware though).

If someone asks for my honest opinion and I can tell they want it they get it every time.

I think my behaviour is dictated by the "lie unto others as you would like lied to yourself" approach.

Would you lie to get something you really wanted i.e. on your CV for a job if you knew you wouldn't get found out??? I'm wondering if your honesty is generic or only connected to peoples feelings i.e. the love, relationships and people examples in your post.

[JWC3]

Would you lie to get something you really wanted i.e. on your CV for a job if you knew you wouldn't get found out??? I'm wondering if your honesty is generic or only connected to peoples feelings i.e. the love, relationships and people examples in your post.

Probably not, even in that situation though my approach is kinda egotistical still. I.E. I'm not going to make myself seem better than I already am because I'm the best and if they don't want to hire me, some one else will. I gotta say that I'm pretty sure I would have much less of a problem if I were to lie. However, I'd never really be in such a situation, theater/film communities tend to be rather small and tight-nit, because of this the chances of being found out are rather high as well the consequences.

I also have problems making excuses for myself even if I can legitimately blame something on my environment. If I do something wrong, or perform poorly, it's my fault and the end of the day I need to be able to deal with whatever "caused" my poor performance anyway.

[JWC3]

I lie almost instinctively when dealing with people I don't care about and have something to gain by doing so. Other than that, I bend the truth sometimes, but I will never outright lie to a loved one unless I absolutely have to and know they would understand.

This is not including white lies and minor embellishments; those go wherever necessary. I take artistic license with a great deal of my speech, with the exception of relating important life experiences or other weighty, important subjects.

How do you handle excusing your own behavior?

[Singu]

No offense... but I'm very skeptical when somebody claims that they're always oh-so-honest, because it's very easy to fool yourself into thinking that you're being honest, even if you're nothing but (people have tons of unconscious processes that they're not aware of). And if you were so honest, then why would you need to affirm yourself that you're so honest? Your honesty should just speak for itself.

You should be honest enough to admit that you can't always be honest.

[JWC3]

No offense... but I'm very skeptical when somebody claims that they're always oh-so-honest, because it's very easy to fool yourself into thinking that you're being honest, even if you're nothing but (people have tons of unconscious processes that they're not aware of). And if you were so honest, then why would you need to affirm yourself that you're so honest? Your honesty should just speak for itself.

You should be honest enough to admit that you can't always be honest.

No offense but there's a reason the thread title is "Not lying" and not "Always being honest" or "Telling the Truth"

Take the example I provided earlier. If some one tells me they miss me, and I respond with "<3" Does that really count as being honest? I don't think so. Mind you I don't think it's dishonest, it's just not a criteria i would use to judge that statement.

And I would have no problem selling cigarettes to cancer patients, Or for that matter selling them to baby seals. This whole not lying, doesn't mean I'm the most moral and ethical person ever. It's just that if some one were to ask me if cigarettes cause cancer (And I was a cigarette salesman) I would either downplay that fact, or appeal to the countless smokers who currently don't have cancer as opposed to straight up telling the customer "No, cigarettes don't cause cancer." Which is something I wouldn't do. Or I could just mislead the fuck out of them and answer with another question such as "What does it really mean to cause something?" and then go on to improv some random situation so they forget the original question.

Mind you there are exceptions to every rule and if you really wanted to split hairs I am sarcastic which could be considered a form of lying. Or I will tell blatant outright lies for the sake of humor so long as it's generally understood that I'm joking. I.E. I often tell my closest friends that I hate them, but in those cases they usually understand that the opposite is the case.

As for affirming myself, this isn't a "Look at me! I'm the only honest person ever!" it's me wondering if there is a connection between SLEs (Or possibly betas) and potentially hurting loved ones by being way too situational with their emotions (Which is why most of the previous examples in this thread dealt with other's emotions since that's what I was interested in).


And for the record I am offended. I thought it was generally understood that all SLEs are mean, vindictive, assholes and the idea that you think that I'm trying to portray myself as a nice and honest person while not also including that obvious truth hurts me... Hurts me deep like.

[redbaron]

And for the record I am offended. I thought it was generally understood that all SLEs are mean, vindictive, assholes and the idea that you think that I'm trying to portray myself as a nice and honest person while not also including that obvious truth hurts me... Hurts me deep like.

[redbaron]

no of course you're baby isn't ugly.

I will never lie about how I feel about someone romatically or go out my way to butter someone up with lies (just compliments that have grains of truth). I only socialize and spend time with people I genuinely like (unless I'm at forced social events i.e. weddings).

same

I think my behaviour is dictated by the "lie unto others as you would like lied to yourself" approach.

HA!

As for SLEs and lying, the ones I know, like Joe, are aware of their superior capabilities and don't feel the need to make themselves look better than they already know they are. It's a "love me or don't, but this is who I am" kind of attitude. That said, some of them are probably willing to bend the truth in various situations, when needed, to avoid hurting others. Still, I don't know ANY of them who would say something in a relationship that they didn't really mean (like "I love you" or "I miss you"). Being relationally-challenged, they're probably more likely to show how they feel than say it anyway.

[shakealittle]

I lie almost instinctively when dealing with people I don't care about and have something to gain by doing so. Other than that, I bend the truth sometimes, but I will never outright lie to a loved one unless I absolutely have to and know they would understand.

This is not including white lies and minor embellishments; those go wherever necessary. I take artistic license with a great deal of my speech, with the exception of relating important life experiences or other weighty, important subjects.

Haha in my experience EIEs are the experts at developing an illusion of how they are according to the people they are with. They may be my duals but I always feel them creating this distance as if they don't want me to get to the core truth of who they are.

[JWC3]

YES! I would never say anything that has to do with feelings and emotions and all that mess, that I didn't actually mean. I am also not likely to sugar coat or bend the truth in these situations.

HOWEVER!

This isn't about morality, ethics, or being an honest person. I couldn't care less about those things (Since their a crock of shit anyway). What I'm getting at with regards to not lying is that; While I'm out clubbing baby seals with my hommies (A usual Friday night) and my Girlfriend, who also happens to be in PETA, calls to ask what is up I'm not going to tell her "Just practicing crochet with aunt sally!" Instead I would say "Doing sneaky shit" or "Doing stuff with my friends." And both of those answers, while not the entire truth, contain no un-truth.

HOWEVER! (Again)

If my hypothetical PETA girlfriend were to ask me if I loved her, no such truth bending or subject hiding would occur.

HOWEVER! (Part three, the final stand)

If my hypothetical PETA girlfriend were to ask me directly If I was clubbing baby seals. I would most likely respond with "Gently" or "Only a few" or "We're only using pool noodles! They don't even hurt!"

P.S. In the third case, I would have to be using pool noodles for that statement to come out of my mouth.

[redbaron]

awesome example!

[silverchris9]

No offense but there's a reason the thread title is "Not lying" and not "Always being honest" or "Telling the Truth"

Oh, if that's what "not lying" means, yes, I can probably count on my hands the number of times I've told an outright falsehood of the "did you do x; no I did not do x" variety. It probably relates to the fact that when I was tiny I read The Magician's Nephew by C.S. Lewis, and this girl had this crystal ball where she looked down on her friend that was making fun of her and saw that said friend was making fun of her, and since then I've been convinced that if I lie or say something bad about someone when they're not around, they'll be watching on a crystal ball and catch me at it.

I do fudge emotional stuff sometimes. But I try not to, and if it was something really important like "I love you," I don't think I'd be able to fake that.

Also, this reminds me somewhat of the story about when Sojourner Truth (a slave in the pre-Civil War South), after escaping from her master, went back to visit her parents and her father covered his eyes so that when the master asked, "do you know where Sojourner Truth is?" he could truthfully answer, "I haven't seen her."

Probably not, even in that situation though my approach is kinda egotistical still. I.E. I'm not going to make myself seem better than I already am because I'm the best and if they don't want to hire me, some one else will. I gotta say that I'm pretty sure I would have much less of a problem if I were to lie. However, I'd never really be in such a situation, theater/film communities tend to be rather small and tight-nit, because of this the chances of being found out are rather high as well the consequences.

Please. Everybody lies on their resume. Bernadette Peters lied for years on her resume about being Baby June in a touring production of Gypsy in which she was definitely just a chorus girl (she might have been understudy). And then there's a song in "The Last Five Years" where the actress character goes, "why are you looking at my resume; I made up half the shit on my resume..." I mean, I'm sort of kidding... but there are communities big enough that you could probably get away with it...

[Mattie]

I can't say I have a preoccupation with lying or not lying. I actually relate to what JWC just wrote, I think I generally go by that. Some people call it "lying by omission," but I guess it depends on your views. I think, in general, it depends on your relationship with me. I'm either completely straight forward or ambiguous when I don't know you very well, to avoid lying, then when I'm getting to know you or things are sensitive, there's the not lying but omission deal going on, and then when you're really close, it's usually completely straight forward and some embellishments to show when something is important to me.

[Singu]

No offense but there's a reason the thread title is "Not lying" and not "Always being honest" or "Telling the Truth"

lol what's the difference?

Ok... well I might have been generally replying to some of the responses in this thread, okay?

And I'm not sure if you're actually an SLE... I can't really imagine any SLEs caring about things like this, since they seem to have more easy-going approach to life. You seem far more analytical than them than usual. But who knows?

I'm not totally sure if this type-related, probably not.

As for affirming myself, this isn't a "Look at me! I'm the only honest person ever!" it's me wondering if there is a connection between SLEs (Or possibly betas) and potentially hurting loved ones by being way too situational with their emotions (Which is why most of the previous examples in this thread dealt with other's emotions since that's what I was interested in).

Being too situational with emotions is well... I don't think that it's healthy and I don't think that it's type-related. In psychology, this is called compartmentalization... and well, I guess it's a way of not being honest with yourself. I might have more to say on this... but eh.

And for the record I am offended. I thought it was generally understood that all SLEs are mean, vindictive, assholes and the idea that you think that I'm trying to portray myself as a nice and honest person while not also including that obvious truth hurts me... Hurts me deep like.

...I didn't say that... besides I didn't even know that you were an SLE.

[IEI]

Is faking an orgasm lying??? I have this friend....

[silverchris9]

Is faking an orgasm lying??? I have this friend....

lol.

And I'm not sure if you're actually an SLE... I can't really imagine any SLEs caring about things like this, since they seem to have more easy-going approach to life. You seem far more analytical than them than usual. But who knows?

Do you know any SLEs? Ti creative. Happens a lot. In fact, I think all the SLEs I know have an analytical side. Of course, if you don't get close them, all you see is the extroverted functions, i.e. Se and Fe-seeking.

[redbaron]

Is faking an orgasm lying???

yes.

[redbaron]

This is another evidence of your type as LSE, possibly, because they avoid ethics. SLE do not avoid ethics, ethics is not Fi, Fi is about relationships.

ethics/morality in that sense is not type related.

[DirectorAbbie]

If my hypothetical PETA girlfriend were to ask me directly If I was clubbing baby seals. I would most likely respond with "Gently" or "Only a few" or "We're only using pool noodles! They don't even hurt!"

[Park]

Does any one else have a pre-occupation with not lying? I absolutely hate lying to other people. If some one tells me they love me, and I don't feel it I wont say it back. If I absolutely abhor spending time with someone, I tell them to fuck off. That's not to say things never change, in the "I love you example" of course I'd say it when I feel it.

This bar on lying has gotten me into a lot of sticky situations, but I still can't bring myself to lie to someone even if it's to make them feel better. Or maybe a better less egotistical way to put it is that I refuse to pretend to posses feelings that I don't.

That's not to say If some one says "I miss you!" I'd respond with "I don't miss you!" I'm more likely to change the subject or respond with something abstract like "<3"

The only exception I've found is generally speaking I have a really hard time not saying "I missed you too" When people say they miss me... Which bugs the shit out of me since I rarely if ever miss anyone.

I'm pretty much the same way... give or take. I respect emotional honesty.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm pretty much the same way... give or take. I respect emotional honesty.

How about material honesty?

[Absurd]

I lie and cheat all the time just to get what I want and I wonder right now whether I lied or told the truth.

[Park]

How about material honesty?

Material honesty implies that materials should be used and selected on the bases of their properties,[10] and that the characteristics of a material should influence the form it is used for.[11] Thus, a material must not be used as a substitute for another material as this subverts the materials “true” properties and it is “cheating” the spectator.[12]

Yeah, of course.

[Beautiful sky]

YES! I would never say anything that has to do with feelings and emotions and all that mess, that I didn't actually mean. I am also not likely to sugar coat or bend the truth in these situations.

HOWEVER!

This isn't about morality, ethics, or being an honest person. I couldn't care less about those things (Since their a crock of shit anyway). What I'm getting at with regards to not lying is that; While I'm out clubbing baby seals with my hommies (A usual Friday night) and my Girlfriend, who also happens to be in PETA, calls to ask what is up I'm not going to tell her "Just practicing crochet with aunt sally!" Instead I would say "Doing sneaky shit" or "Doing stuff with my friends." And both of those answers, while not the entire truth, contain no un-truth.

HOWEVER! (Again)

If my hypothetical PETA girlfriend were to ask me if I loved her, no such truth bending or subject hiding would occur.

HOWEVER! (Part three, the final stand)

If my hypothetical PETA girlfriend were to ask me directly If I was clubbing baby seals. I would most likely respond with "Gently" or "Only a few" or "We're only using pool noodles! They don't even hurt!"

P.S. In the third case, I would have to be using pool noodles for that statement to come out of my mouth.

You passed my Ti test; you are 100% ESTp...Stan you prob right and you are right!

[Ezra]

Does any one else have a pre-occupation with not lying? I absolutely hate lying to other people. If some one tells me they love me, and I don't feel it I wont say it back. If I absolutely abhor spending time with someone, I tell them to fuck off. That's not to say things never change, in the "I love you example" of course I'd say it when I feel it.

This bar on lying has gotten me into a lot of sticky situations, but I still can't bring myself to lie to someone even if it's to make them feel better. Or maybe a better less egotistical way to put it is that I refuse to pretend to posses feelings that I don't.

That's not to say If some one says "I miss you!" I'd respond with "I don't miss you!" I'm more likely to change the subject or respond with something abstract like "<3"

The only exception I've found is generally speaking I have a really hard time not saying "I missed you too" When people say they miss me... Which bugs the shit out of me since I rarely if ever miss anyone.

Mate, it's like you have just entered my mind and stolen my thoughts. To be honest, interestingly, I'm more likely to say "I love you" - as LONG as I've said it before and meant it - than "I miss you too". Re: the "<3", yep haha, I don't do that myself but I know people who have done it, and they do it when they don't want to talk about the current issue haha.

My mum (psychologist) used to think I was autistic because I couldn't lie. It's not that I can't lie, it's that I very very rarely if ever see the need to. Even when it's to get you out of a situation - TAKE SOME FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS! Sadly, people in our society abuse and take advantage of those who tell the truth naively, so I've had to temper a bit who I talk to. If I think someone is trying to manipulate me, I'll tell them to fuck off before we reach that point. But tbh rarely do I find myself in that situation.

[IEI]

yes.

I just googled lying to try and get off on semantics (to no avail) Guilty as charged.

But it did surprise me to see such a wide range of lying categories:
Lie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Types of lie
1.1.1 Big Lie
1.1.2 Careful speaking
1.1.3 Compliments and false reassurances
1.1.4 Bluffing
1.1.5 Barefaced lie
1.1.6 Contextual lie
1.1.7 Economical with the truth
1.1.8 Emergency lie
1.1.9 Exaggeration
1.1.10 Fabrication
1.1.11 Jocose lie
1.1.12 Lie-to-children
1.1.13 Lying by obsolete signage
1.1.14 Lying by omission
1.1.15 Lying in trade
1.1.16 Lying through your teeth
1.1.17 Misleading/dissembling
1.1.18 Noble lie
1.1.19 Perjury
1.1.20 Puffery
1.1.21 White lie

[Mattie]

Types of lie
1.1.1 Big Lie
1.1.2 Careful speaking
1.1.3 Compliments and false reassurances
1.1.4 Bluffing
1.1.5 Barefaced lie
1.1.6 Contextual lie
1.1.7 Economical with the truth
1.1.8 Emergency lie
1.1.9 Exaggeration
1.1.10 Fabrication
1.1.11 Jocose lie
1.1.12 Lie-to-children
1.1.13 Lying by obsolete signage
1.1.14 Lying by omission
1.1.15 Lying in trade
1.1.16 Lying through your teeth
1.1.17 Misleading/dissembling
1.1.18 Noble lie
1.1.19 Perjury
1.1.20 Puffery
1.1.21 White lie

Something tells me there isn't that many types of truth Interestingly enough, people find only some of that lying and not all of it. I guess it would would have to define the truth and then assuming not telling the truth is a lie. Who knows

[JWC3]

Mate, it's like you have just entered my mind and stolen my thoughts. To be honest, interestingly, I'm more likely to say "I love you" - as LONG as I've said it before and meant it - than "I miss you too". Re: the "<3", yep haha, I don't do that myself but I know people who have done it, and they do it when they don't want to talk about the current issue haha.

My mum (psychologist) used to think I was autistic because I couldn't lie. It's not that I can't lie, it's that I very very rarely if ever see the need to. Even when it's to get you out of a situation - TAKE SOME FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS! Sadly, people in our society abuse and take advantage of those who tell the truth naively, so I've had to temper a bit who I talk to. If I think someone is trying to manipulate me, I'll tell them to fuck off before we reach that point. But tbh rarely do I find myself in that situation.

Dude, yes! I've had to kick multiple people out of my life because at the end of the day they were trying to manipulate me. You seem to be better at spotting it though cause I usually get fucked over a little first before I realize the people need to go.

Does it piss you off when you tell someone something they want to know but they don't tell you anything in return? Just the other day a friend of mine asked me "So are you and x dating?" and I responded essentially with No and when I asked her who wanted to know she wouldn't tell me. That's so frustrating cause, well it just seems like I was taken advantage of since I would almost never lie to a friend and now I have no idea what they plan to do with that information.

[redbaron]

Dude, yes! I've had to kick multiple people out of my life because at the end of the day they were trying to manipulate me. You seem to be better at spotting it though cause I usually get fucked over a little first before I realize the people need to go.

Does it piss you off when you tell someone something they want to know but they don't tell you anything in return? Just the other day a friend of mine asked me "So are you and x dating?" and I responded essentially with No and when I asked her who wanted to know she wouldn't tell me. That's so frustrating cause, well it just seems like I was taken advantage of since I would almost never lie to a friend and now I have no idea what they plan to do with that information.

heh. the SLEs I know would ask the question "who wants to know?" first, before giving out the info.

[JWC3]

heh. the SLEs I know would ask the question "who wants to know?" first, before giving out the info.

Normally I would too, that's why when I don't and this happens it's frustrating. And plus I usually give my friends a pass on that one.

[redbaron]

Normally I would too, that's why when I don't and this happens it's frustrating. And plus I usually give my friends a pass on that one.

I've noticed that SLEs are usually kinda skeptical of giving out information unless they know exactly why you want to know. Paranoia I guess. It's cute. They're also reluctant to promise anything unless they know for sure that they can deliver. They keep their language open.

[Beautiful sky]

I've noticed that SLEs are usually kinda skeptical of giving out information unless they know exactly why you want to know. Paranoia I guess. It's cute. They're also reluctant to promise anything unless they know for sure that they can deliver. They keep their language open.

Absolutely.
I went out with an SLE and he questioned me about my previous relationships and got paranoid saying "Is your X going to come and kill me?" I thought "what the heck is wrong with you? How do you come up with such an illogical assumption?"

I have a question with this regard, maybe redbaron, you can help in answering it...

What on earth or how on earth did this SLE guy expect me to react to what he asked about my X-killing him? To laugh or to cry or to say what?

[JWC3]

What on earth or how on earth did this SLE guy expect me to react to what he asked about my X-killing him? To laugh or to cry or to say what?

I dunno how he expected you to react, but I'm pretty sure he wanted to know if he was in any immediate danger of death. That's a very real concern.

[Beautiful sky]

I dunno how he expected you to react, but I'm pretty sure he wanted to know if he was in any immediate danger of death. That's a very real concern.

[redbaron]

Absolutely.
I went out with an SLE and he questioned me about my previous relationships and got paranoid saying "Is your X going to come and kill me?" I thought "what the heck is wrong with you? How do you come up with such an illogical assumption?"

I have a question with this regard, maybe redbaron, you can help in answering it...

What on earth or how on earth did this SLE guy expect me to react to what he asked about my X-killing him? To laugh or to cry or to say what?

I dunno what he expected, but I would have just laughed and said "of course not, silly!" I would tend to take it as a compliment (even if it wasn't meant that way)--like he was saying that I'm worth so much that my ex would kill any guy who came near me.

[Beautiful sky]

I dunno what he expected, but I would have just laughed and said "of course not, silly!" I would tend to take it as a compliment (even if it wasn't meant that way)--like he was saying that I'm worth so much that my ex would kill any guy who came near me.

This is the reason why there's 0 chance of me being Beta; My values dictate that the right compliment is not one where someone consideres the worth of an individual to be tied to some sort of heroic attempt/mention of defending "honor" by killing another individual as all individual lives are equally valuable and important for me. The comment made me get upset rather then laugh so I suppose that's a good indication of conflicting relations already. It still makes me upset after like 5 or 6 years.