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Thread: Mindes type

  1. #1
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default Mindes type

    Do with it what you will, I don't even know if I feel like debating it, but I thought i'd post it here incase it got lost in some other discussion elsewhere.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post650666

    This mainly part, Re Minde concerning her type:

    "OK, i'll cut to something i've been thinking about recently.

    [i]This sort of way of talking that you have, I see it a lot: guilt tripping and controlling those who you want silenced. I think what it comes down to is that I see you more and more as using Fi in a way that moves into creative Se. Of course that's not to say only ISFj's can behave like that, but they sure are better at it than other types. Compare with INXj's, they are much more naive and not as quick to play intricate power games. They give a sense of genuines as they don't have creative Se and the way it can 'play' things. I suppose as Gilly put it, you've got 'balls'. So, I personally can't be bothered someone who displays those qualities, I don't enjoy that sort of game, and if you don't think you should be moderator and don't become one then i'll be glad."

    I think she's ISFj, maybe i'll debate it or not, or indeed elaborate further, maybe others will, but it's food for thought for others to at least consider, as unfortunately, from what I can tell, she's regarded in some circles as a 'textbook' INFj.

    Edit: Well there it is, some obligatory type thread or other, I think second one i've created about someone in this sub forum, but I do think she is ISFj and maybe others would like to think about it themselves considering the overall perspective. Talking over, heh.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    She's not INFj, that's for sure. She does not make any static comments; plays up Se uses lots of visual-spacial skills, god, I could go on; her relationship with Mariella is a situatation where she tells her "you Misundertood me " in a relationship of Look-A-Like donesn't one partner bring the other to missed details as involved with the dominent function of the other?

    She does not loose herself in Trivialities as I can very easily because of Ne in my ego black; she is not IEE because unlike Mariella, she does not expand possibilities and then when specifics change she does not mention it like Mariella does.

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    have I gone retarded or are you high, Maritsa? I couldn´t understand a word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    have I gone retarded or are you high, Maritsa? I couldn´t understand a word.
    Sorry honey. I am babbel writing.

    Gilly noticed that along with a combination of things, like visual-spacial abilities that Minde could actually be ISFj not INFj.

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    "She does not make any static comments; plays up Se uses lots of visual-spacial skills, god, I could go on; her relationship with Mariella is a situatation where she tells her "you Misundertood me " in a relationship of Look-A-Like donesn't one partner bring the other to missed details as involved with the dominent function of the other?"

    SITUATATION... TELL ME WHAT YOU´RE TAKING HONEY WE´LL TAKE IT TOGETHER LOOKING AT THE CALIFORNIA BLUE SKIES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    "She does not make any static comments; plays up Se uses lots of visual-spacial skills, god, I could go on; her relationship with Mariella is a situatation where she tells her "you Misundertood me " in a relationship of Look-A-Like donesn't one partner bring the other to missed details as involved with the dominent function of the other?"

    SITUATATION... TELL ME WHAT YOU´RE TAKING HONEY WE´LL TAKE IT TOGETHER LOOKING AT THE CALIFORNIA BLUE SKIES.
    I am not on anything. I don't do drugs; I tried pot in college, but after one hit I went into anaphylactic shock and had to be administer CPR.

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    I don't have a problem with Minde being EII, but I see the point you make here. Also, we have only one ESI, I'm sure we could use another. What do you want for her?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    She's not INFj, that's for sure. She does not make any static comments; plays up Se uses lots of visual-spacial skills, god, I could go on; her relationship with Mariella is a situatation where she tells her "you Misundertood me " in a relationship of Look-A-Like donesn't one partner bring the other to missed details as involved with the dominent function of the other?
    Se is static as well. You know, you don't have to try and memorize all these details. They would make sense if you knew the theory rather than just throwing mentions of random elements around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I don't have a problem with Minde being EII, but I see the point you make here. Also, we have only one ESI, I'm sure we could use another. What do you want for her?



    Se is static as well. You know, you don't have to try and memorize all these details. They would make sense if you knew the theory rather than just throwing mentions of random elements around.
    Well, what reasoning can you provide for her being ESI?
    Both Cyclops and I don't notice Ne in Minde.

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    So is this thread going to have Maritsa set up as the textbook EII to compare Minde to, because it looks like it's headed in that direction, and if it is the thread is useless.

    I really only have a strong opinion on five or fewer people's types around here. I'm more about eliminating possible types than narrowing down to just one type. Like I feel strongly that Maritsa values Ti, so that makes me narrow down to a few types, but I don't have a strong opinion beyond that. I don't have a strong opinion about Minde's type either. The only people from the 16 types I have strong opinions on are Bionicgoat, myself, I can't even immediately think of anyone else. So if I'm in the group supposedly using Minde as a "textbook EII" then you're wrong about that group. I guess that I eliminate a few possibilities as I see them, and then if people self-type within what I see, I generally go with the self-typing, but keep an open mind about it. She seems very much rational and introvered. She seems like an Fi valuer. If she sees herself as EII, then I'm inclined to believe her. But that's why I stay out of a lot of typing therads. Too much Ne. "Well, I can see that, and on the other hand I can see that too . . .. "

    She seems maybe like she bows out of debates more than ESIs generally do. ESIs generally like to keep arguments going more, from what I've seen. I know she and I have argued in the past, but I don't remember the specifics, what about and how it all went. I just remember that there have been some arguments. That's my spotty memory again.

  10. #10
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I'm going to make this post for the sake of objectivity, maybe others could contribute to it if they see something which may be relevant.

    I think she is definitely introverted imo, seems quite focused on the 'subject' when she discusses her views. And I do feel 'Fi' from her, just tempered not with Ne (which doesn't mean i'm saying i'm SLI or anything, in this context it's probably irrelevant, just that I see introversion and a rationality of ethics which fits for dominant introverted function, ie Fi) but the second function is Se imo.

    I suppose some might say it is strong Fi sub type which can 'make' her ISFj every so often, but sub type is more amibiguous than actual type.

    She's not INFj, that's for sure. She does not make any static comments; plays up Se uses lots of visual-spacial skills, god, I could go on; her relationship with Mariella is a situatation where she tells her "you Misundertood me " in a relationship of Look-A-Like donesn't one partner bring the other to missed details as involved with the dominent function of the other?
    I'm reluctant to bring inter-type relations in such a manner at least at this stage, i'll think about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa
    She does not loose herself in Trivialities as I can very easily because of Ne in my ego black;
    Possibly.
    she is not IEE because unlike Mariella, she does not expand possibilities and then when specifics change she does not mention it like Mariella does.
    Yeah, I don't think IEE for a few reasons anyway.

    Re first part of post, introverted seems like it, also it seems it's easier to get second position confused than first position function, and even overall introversion, when one has at least some understanding of themselves and what introversion is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss
    I don't have a problem with Minde being EII, but I see the point you make here. Also, we have only one ESI, I'm sure we could use another. What do you want for her?
    Yeah, except she uses creative Se. I suppose the 'games' being mentioned, Diana who's left, although ended up typing herself as LSI, there was a thread before she departed for a while where the sort of 'gaming' was called out, I think Minde has a lot more 'feeling' than Diana in terms of inter-personal relationship understanding, even ability to utilise, so defo stronger Fi than Diana.

    I appreciate you seeing my point, I think you can have a tendency for objectivity which is good. We don't seem to have any other ESI's to compare to, so even although that can be flawed in itself - comparing in such a manner, i've put down some other thoughts on the matter for now, for better or worse.

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    Filatova on EII:

    " The EII seeks true values in life and finds meaning in existence through harmony in her relations with other people. She particularly values high spirituality and high morals. As far back as youth the EII uses her imagination to form a certain moral ideal, which she then attempts to reach. At the foundation of this function frequently is found the development of a feeling of duty. Thus the smallest divergence in behaviour away from the ideal is dealt with severely, internally. This tendency towards self-perfection can itself become a tyrant. This tyranny of duty, in its extreme manifestations, can lead the EII to develop contempt for herself. It can also lead her to blame others when their behaviour fails to correspond with said representation of decency. This sort of maximization, which frequently characterizes itself in the EII’s youth can lead to confrontation with her contemporaries. Such confrontations are difficult tests, which weigh heavily upon her.

    Since the moral norms she considers compulsory tend to be extremely high and difficult to live up to she may often respond by gradually increasing the permanent feeling of guilt, which stems from all her misdeeds. With difficulty she deposits herself towards these laws. She considers every failure in her life to be punishment for her inadvertence. This sense of guilt can accompany the EII throughout their entire life.

    The accumulation of materials values and career success never supercede the EII’s goal of existence: to find their purpose, to make a life before it passes them by, to realize their talents. For their moral ideal they are willing to go to the “executioner’s bloc”. In the psychologically extreme situation they stick to their ideal. However, in ordinary situations EII prefers to leave states of conflict, assuming that kindness and decency are the best ways of deciding any misunderstandings.
    "

    She doesn't do this at all. I stick to my ideals like a gun to my head. I am so rigid with regards to my ideals it's not even funny and Minde herself has pointed out to several people that I am rigid and nonconforming, which is fine with me because that's how I am (EII).

  12. #12
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella
    So is this thread going to have Maritsa set up as the textbook EII to compare Minde to, because it looks like it's headed in that direction, and if it is the thread is useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    We don't seem to have any other ESI's to compare to, so even although that can be flawed in itself - comparing in such a manner
    Although I made it later but it's relevant.

    I don't expect that to be the direction of the thread at least from my perspective, dunno about others though.

    She seems maybe like she bows out of debates more than ESIs generally do. ESIs generally like to keep arguments going more, from what I've seen. I know she and I have argued in the past, but I don't remember the specifics, what about and how it all went. I just remember that there have been some arguments. That's my spotty memory again.
    No probs.

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    I can't stand the site of violence and when lobo pictured that poor wolf that had been hurt, I told him that I wouldn't post pictures like that because it was very gruesome and Minde's reaction to that was "it's a bit gruesome"; I thought, "are you kidding me?" That is very brutal..

    "Se – the function of least resistance. Everything, which deals with violence, in any form, connects to the EII painfully."

    Especially when Gilly posted the severed person's body in the delta forum was like someone taking my heart right out my body; I still don't understand how people can experience such things.

    " The effects of the development of this function make it difficult for the EII to watch physical fights and punishments and they harbour an immediate gut reaction in the case of murder, even if it presents itself merely as a representation on TV. Such spectacles incite, in them, the desire to stop everything. Their reaction can be even sharper should they suffer violent treatment personally in life, especially in regards to punishment as children. "

    My reaction to murder is that every human life is valuable and showing pictures for entertainment is not good because it devalues human life and the sacredness of the human existance.

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    I took accounting in my undergrad and business but I still suffer from this aspect of career

    "The EII is very sensitive to overbearing tones that address her. Frequently she works haplessly at tasks under the force of an underdeveloped business logic. If forced to make or do something she interprets this as the underestimation of her zeal and may simply discontinue work, while simultaneously an appeal to her feeling of duty can for long periods hold her in the state of business stress."

    I have already mentioned a structure to handle this, which is clean 10 minutes every morning but that I can't paint because of the energy lost in the process.

    "The EII’s orientation towards household problems tends to be inefficient. Something qualitative to buy, to adequately suture a piece of clothing, laundry… these problems, amongst others, are necessary to deal with. Yet the EII never ceases in spending too much time and energy on each task. "

    I can spend a lot of time on this.

    "She must maintain her sense of cleanliness for living in disorder threatens to weigh heavily upon her; also she considers it shameful to allow others to witness disorder in her living space. The periodic absence of money greatly suppresses her. She feels problems in her household very heavily and thus always attempts to save money “just in case.” Weakness, in the EII’s sense of sensation, is also developed in the fact that she finds it difficult to decide whether something will be needed in the future or not. Therefore she’s inclined to keep things for years, which most other people would have forsaken long ago. "

    Her home is cluttered because she has too much stuff?
    I would die.

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    I have this strange thing about whether she is ESI or SEE:

    But Filatova writes of ESI as
    "The ESI sees reality primarily through static personal ethics and stable interpersonal bonds between individuals, including himself, where the status of such interpersonal bonds is determined by his personal ethics. The ESI is very confident in evaluating the ethical or moral qualities, and their consistency, of other people as well of himself. This makes ESIs seem "judgmental" or "self-righteous" to people less so inclined. If an ESI has difficulty in deciding the status of a personal relationship, he will take action to try to reach a conclusion, but if that continues to elude him, he will regard the relationship as not worth it. His own sense of constancy in personal ethics and in his relationships with others is a very strong factor in his sense of self-worth.

    This is manifested as a very high regard for personal loyalty and integrity, both on the part of the ESI and of others towards each other and towards the ESI. The idea that he failed on that is extremely upsetting to an ESI, and such a suggestion, made by others, is seen as the ultimate insult if the ESI himself does not agree. The same goes for accusations of unethical or unprincipled behavior that the ESI regards as unjustified.

    ESIs are very often more confident of the status of a personal relationship - and of what it should be in their view - than other persons; therefore ESIs often take it upon themselves to establish, maintain, preserve, or change the status of such relationships.

    She regards me as not worth it to talk to me while the people who have been very mean to me is no consequence in speaking with them again; because, I strongly believe in growth, I don't just say things like there is hope, I live it. I knew when Pirate was mean to me that it would only be a matter of time until he and I opened communication with one another and spoke in a amicable way; in the mean time, I never ignored him or cut my relations with him. I don't do such things with people. She worried about justice I think about mercy..I have pointed this out several times before. I don't change the status of relationships, as in cutting people off or other things; I deepen bonds.

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    Is the title of this thread "Maritsa's type?" Really, Maritsa, if you want a thread about your type, make one.

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    as a role (3rd) function (SLE and SEE)
    The individual is uncertain of other people's motives, intentions, and abilities and prefers to give them clear commands and assignments and judge their intentions and potential by whether or not they fulfill these demands.

    He tends to openly express mistrust and skepticism towards all unexpected or novel behavior and developments, as well as towards information about things that he or she has not experienced directly. This mistrustful attitude usually goes away after the person has the chance to deal with the new thing, event, or behavior directly for a period of time and get used to it. He is able to orient himself quickly when he is in direct contact with events, things, or behavior, but when he is told about them far in advance or simply in the form of "random information that may come in handy some day," he usually doesn't know how to react to this information.

    The individual prefers to know what awaits him in specific areas in the near future rather than what awaits him "in general" and in areas that don't affect his central interests.

    The person is particularly aggravated when people are late for unclear reasons and behave in other independent and unpredictable ways.
    This gives them the feeling of hanging in the air and general uncertainty about the future. Being action oriented people, this is difficult to bear. "

    She is very untrusting. The above is a display of how she will act when people do not do as she tells them to or when there is a thread open for a subject of discussion already. Along with all her other SEE friends she is clumsy, clumsy, clumsy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    as a role (3rd) function (SLE and SEE)
    The individual is uncertain of other people's motives, intentions, and abilities and prefers to give them clear commands and assignments and judge their intentions and potential by whether or not they fulfill these demands."

    She is very untrusting.
    That sounds like you, but I don't think you're that type. But you keep assuming intentions from Minde that don't exist. And you've given me a lot of commands and assignments. Read this, look at this.

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    My point being that fishing out phrases here and there out of various type descriptions isn't very useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    That sounds like you, but I don't think you're that type. But you keep assuming intentions from Minde that don't exist. And you've given me a lot of commands and assignments. Read this, look at this.
    Have I ever demanded you go somewhere and do something? Like now when you're pissing me off again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    My point being that fishing out phrases here and there out of various type descriptions isn't very useful.
    You will say and do anything that suits your argument even when I provide a reputable source for my argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Have I ever demanded you go somewhere and do something? Like now when you're pissing me off again?



    You will say and do anything that suits your argument even when I provide a reputable source for my argument.
    I can clearly see Ti dual seeking, and the more you argue, the more I see it. If I saw something else, I'd say so.

    And yes you've made lots of demands.

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    as a mobilizing (6th) function (SEE and IEE)
    The individual is keen on accumulating factual knowledge on subjects of personal interest and those that help him be more efficient and productive, but he's often unsure of his ability to find and select the correct information and is therefore attracted to people whom he sees as competent in that area and reassure him. "

    Attraction to LSE? or even to people who will feed them info?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I can clearly see Ti dual seeking, and the more you argue, the more I see it. If I saw something else, I'd say so.

    And yes you've made lots of demands.
    Introverted logic () is an introverted, rational, and static information element. It is also called Ti, L, structural logic, or white logic.

    is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty. It is like common sense, in that it builds on one's expectations of reality, through a somewhat personal, though explicable, understanding of general truths and how they are manifested.

    Types that value naturally question the consistency of beliefs that are taken for granted in everyday life. They strongly prefer to make decisions based on their own experience and judgement, as opposed to relying on external authorities for knowledge, which they use only as a last resort. They also have respect for people with clearly defined and internally consistent opinions, believing that a sense of internal certainty is necessary for orienting oneself in life. To these types, one's personal standards of truth are more reliable than public consensus.

    They see overly pragmatic views as shallow, and try to limit public discussion of mundane practical matters. They are especially sensitive to redundant information.

    Contents [hide]
    1 as a base (1st) function (LII and LSI)
    2 as a creative (2nd) function (ILE and SLE)
    3 as a role (3rd) function (ESI and EII)
    4 as a vulnerable (4th) function (SEE and IEE)
    5 as a suggestive (5th) function (ESE and EIE)
    6 as a mobilizing (6th) function (SEI and IEI)
    7 as an ignoring (7th) function (LIE and LSE)
    8 as a demonstrative (8th) function (ILI and SLI)
    9 See also

    as a base (1st) function (LII and LSI)
    The individual views reality through the lens of logic, immediately recognizing the correctness and appropriateness of things and their proper place in reality and in his system of views and behavior. He freely makes logical assertions, often exaggerated, about new information and experience. He holds highest those rules to which exceptions do not exist, and is a habitual critic of people or things that don't follow a set of rules, whether they are those accepted by the community, or his own, or even the other person's. Although he is able to adopt others' rules, his own are always the last word, and these are subject to continual refinement.

    Often seen as "demanding", due to high standards.

    as a creative (2nd) function (ILE and SLE)
    The individual easily generates logical systems and formulations to explain a set of phenomena that he has experienced or studied. However, these logical systems or explanations are not viewed as permanent or all-encompassing, but can be improved upon or even discarded as new experience and information is added.

    as a role (3rd) function (ESI and EII)
    The individual is able to talk about things from a dispassionate academic or theoretical point of view for brief periods of time, but seems overly bookish when doing so and tends to grows tense. When feeling obliged to justify logically a personal decision taken for reasons determined by , the individual attempts to do so but grows quickly annoyed especially if the inconsistency in the logical argument is pointed out. He then either explains the ethical motivation or avoids the issue altogether.
    -ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Below!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    as a vulnerable (4th) function (SEE and IEE)
    The individual has a tendency to either completely reject or completely embrace a source of theoretical knowledge, but does not like to reveal the source or his adherence to it.

    He prefers to limit the number of theoretical categories he works with and tends to see new terminology, systems, and rules as being arbitrary and unnecessary until he at last discovers their necessity for himself through extensive personal experience.

    He may be able to express his views clearly when given the time, but he is not prepared to deal with people who challenge his views and draw him into logical arguments and disputes. For this reason, he is reluctant to publicize new determinations and opinions until he is absolutely sure that they are right and that he can support them thoroughly to anyone who challenges them.

    as a suggestive (5th) function (ESE and EIE)
    The individual has great admiration for people with well-developed systems of views. He especially likes clear and concise explanations of concepts, rather than a lot of background information about them that is not directly pertinent. He wants his actions to make sense, and thus needs external assurance that the conceptual understanding behind them is correct. If he cannot find a source of certainty, he may become flustered and unable to act rationally at all.

    as a mobilizing (6th) function (SEI and IEI)
    The individual seeks clarity in his system of beliefs and understanding and enjoys entertaining new concepts and being included in philosophical discussions where new concepts and systems of thought are introduced. He is uncertain of the logical clarity backing his actions, and thus seeks external assistance in attaining a degree of reasonable competence in this realm. Structure is sought as more of a means to an end, a background guide to facilitate the growth of the individual's main goal.

    as an ignoring (7th) function (LIE and LSE)
    The individual understands easily, but is largely indifferent to, discussions that focus on the internal logic of ideas and systems. The individual perceives such logical systems as largely worthless to his goals and finds them completely uninteresting and unproductive.

    as a demonstrative (8th) function (ILI and SLI)
    The individual often criticizes others' views from a logical standpoint, picking apart statements and postulates and showing that they are logically flawed. However, he does not choose to do this excessively and does not expect that reality can be accurately expressed in a neat logical systematic anyway.

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    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    Well really you seem to want to give info, not look for it. But what you mainly want is systems, VI systems, some other system you were just talking about, that kind of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Well really you seem to want to give info, not look for it. But what you mainly want is systems, VI systems, some other system you were just talking about, that kind of thing.
    Read below please where it says about EII thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    as a mobilizing (6th) function (SEE and IEE)
    The individual is keen on accumulating factual knowledge on subjects of personal interest and those that help him be more efficient and productive, but he's often unsure of his ability to find and select the correct information and is therefore attracted to people whom he sees as competent in that area and reassure him. "

    Attraction to LSE? or even to people who will feed them info?
    So why is it that whenever someone actually gives you information, evidence, facts you throw it in their faces claiming your logic is correct and they haven't proved anything until they point out fallacy? Why do you keep repeating the same mistakes? You have little to no factual knowledge of socionics and you even go as far as to actively reject it when offered.

    You aren't unsure of your ability to select correct information; you are, if anything, too sure your choice of information is always correct when it isn't. Weak and devalued Te.

    It's amusing you should quote this bit, because back when you were claiming Minde couldn't be Te-DS because she "asks for information" I used it and you claimed it was wrong and if such things were in wikisocion, it's an unreliable source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    It's amusing you should quote this bit, because back when you were claiming Minde couldn't be Te-DS because she "asks for information" I used it and you claimed it was wrong and if such things were in wikisocion, it's an unreliable source.
    I remember a similar comment from Maritsa; and now, most of her information comes this source - verbatim. She had high esteem for socioniko.net at one point as well, and when challenged about her interpretations of type based on filatova's descriptions, she dismissed the descriptions as outdated and needing revision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I can't stand the site of violence and when lobo pictured that poor wolf that had been hurt, I told him that I wouldn't post pictures like that because it was very gruesome and Minde's reaction to that was "it's a bit gruesome"; I thought, "are you kidding me?" That is very brutal...

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    Firstly, you're reading motives into Mindes behavior based on nothing but your own presumptions of her, i.e "Minde is not naive/playing powergames/isn't genuine/ballsy, etc"
    Second, Fi+Ne doesn't equate to not pointing out ethical and relational errors that people make, that's Fi in general. What Fi+Ne has difficulties doing is forcing someone to comply, make commands and state absolutists

    Fi-> subjective relationships between objects: feelings of attraction and repulsion, like and dislike, need and antipathy; morals, subjective judgments

    Fi or Ti dominant in conjunction with an Se PoLR:

    Se PoLR:
    "He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do."

    And how this benefits LSE's:

    "Controlling can't stand discussion on personal matter and furthermore discussing relationship problems. Due to this he is inclined to do hasty conclusions and frequently commits ethical slips which complicates his relationships with people surrounding him. Lack of patience and self-control sometimes makes him sharp and tactless, he doesn't have enough not only diplomacy but also self-criticism. Due to this he needs the patience and perseverance of the Humanist who will tactfully and consistently re-educates his dual. Humanist acts not only as an educator but constantly he acts on the conscience of Controlling who is sufficiently sensitive and high moral principles are not alien to him."
    source

    And how this works in opposition to SLE's. I won't post the whole article, too long, but here's the link to Fi in SLE-> Stratievskaya SLE - Wikisocion
    For those who thought TLDR, it basically states that SLE's do not like having their behavior evaluated or/and their ethical errors pointed out (PoLR hit). Compare to the LSE description

    [/]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Gilly noticed that along with a combination of things, like visual-spacial abilities that Minde could actually be ISFj not INFj.
    Don't fucking stand on me or drag me into your crap.

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    I believe Minde is EII.
    I believe she is EII-Fi subtype in socionics, 9w1 ennagram.

    I believe how Maritsa is going about things is indicative more of a mental/emotional fixation, rather than an earnest attempt to understand what reality is; she creates a lot of untruths and slights to support her arguments; it's not particularly convincing. I've said more elsewhere, if you're curious for more of my opinions.


    General comment:
    If you want to demonstrate that you don't take Maritsa seriously, I have a suggestion:
    simply state such in a post here,

    and then discontinue posting in this thread.




    PS: ehhh, but I realize this is a "general thread" about Minde's type. So I suppose to that end, sure, do what you want. But I see it as futile to actively disagree with Marita in the sense of back and forth debating ; that hasn't yielded any results. I'm all for stating your piece, but am advocating for a reduction in entertaining 'discussion' - that was the nature of my 'general comment'
    Last edited by UDP; 05-12-2010 at 04:53 PM.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Don't fucking stand on me or drag me into your crap.
    Fine, don't speak to me that way either.

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    Creepy-Pied Piper

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    Removed at User Request

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    You seem to be having some trouble correctly analyzing these quotes, Pinocchio, let me help you out a bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Our world can be so beautiful.

    I love this time of year here - it's green, not dusty; it's not too cold and getting warmer, but not too warm; and the variety in the weather elements! In one day I can see blue skies, clouds, rain, hail, bright sunshine, wind, calm. Every time I look at it, the sky has so many interesting and captivating shapes and colors and textures. Hardly a dull visual moment. Some of the sunsets recently have been glorious. I love it best when the west portion's saturation reflects in the overarching cloud cover, creating a warm golden magical glow over and in everything. I also love it right after it rains and the sun slants in, setting all asparkle, so clean and bright, gold and green and brown.

    The smells and sounds are nice, too, though they're more potent and pure when I can just be surrounded by nature.



    /verbal raptures
    The above quote is pure Si, especially the underlined parts. See here for a vocabulary list. There is not particularly any Fe in the above quote, it's mainly luxuriating in Si sensations. The "I love this or that" statements could be an expression of Fi, but "love" is a pretty broad term and is not really characteristic of any one type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Detective - I would not do well if it was just me, but it might be fun to play a supporting role. [Detective is a job that requires high amounts of Thinking, both Ti and Te.]

    [...]

    Archeologist - Hm, maybe. I don't know that I'd be able to maintain focus, though. [A common complaint of Ne types is that they are too absentminded to focus on details. Archaeology would also require high amounts of Ti.]

    [...]

    Designer [interior decorating; fashion; etc.] - I do some of this for my current job already. But it's based more on principles and my own likes rather than knowing and implementing trends. I wouldn't (and don't) do well in fashion or interior decorating. [In my opinion, this indicates weak Sensing --knowing and implementing trends being extremely difficult in 1d and 2d functions.]

    Nurse - Helping people is good; blood is bad. I can help people in other ways. [Whether or not a physical sensation is disgusting is related to Si. Also, labeling people and things as "good" or "bad" is strongly tied to Fi.]

    Counselor or psychologist - I've done this a little (not professionally), and just from the small taste I've had I don't think I could handle it. I might get too involved with my client's problem and take on too many of their burdens. [This actually indicates too much empathy and interest in other people's problems, not too little. Logical types can cut themselves off emotionally and analyze their patients dispassionately, Ethical types can't help but feel emotionally connected to their patients, and can be thereby overwhelmed.]
    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Combinations of emotions/attitudes/opinions/etc. are familiar to me. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's rare for me to experience only one at a time. Or even just two. For example, the combination of like and disrespect is quite understandable to me. A more rare and difficult one, imo, would be something even more polar, like simultaneous respect and disdain, though it's quite possible.

    There's also a difference between the more flexible, changeable emotions that sort of flow on the surface, the emotions of color, and the deeper, steader... opinions of people that tend to last longer.
    The above quote, especially the underlined sections, indicates very strong Fi. "Like/Dislike", "Respect/Disrespect", and other "opinions of people" are plainly Fi, and in fact form the core of the ideas associated with Fi. Furthermore, the italicized portion is clearly a description of Fe (and unvalued Fe at that -- Fe-valuers tend to describe the flexible, changeable emotions as "deep", and the more static opinions of people as "surface-level"). The comparison in the last sentence is actually a good, succinct description of the difference between Fi and Fe. Fi is static opinions about things and people -- a relationship is essentially two people's opinions of each other. Fi is like and dislike, respect and disrespect, good and bad, etc. Fe, on the other hand, is dynamic, flowing emotions; one's changing internal state. Fe is happy, sad, angry, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I respect...
    ...kindness, especially when it is given in return for unkindness.

    ...someone who searches for truth and doesn't rest until it's found.

    [...]

    As far as love... I love both many and very few. I wish everyone well; there's no one I really hate. I have no enemies (that I know of - not counting those who hate me simply for my demographics), and while there are a few people that I don't like to be around, it's more because they tax my patience or pull me away from where I want to be than that I think them horrible people, or anything like that. And, yet, I'm truly devoted and connected to a relatively small number of people, comprising mostly of my family. That type of love is born more from commitment and trust. I would have to be very sure of someone to let them into my "inner circle," so to speak. Either that, or very deluded and distracted.
    Kindness and truth are universally valued (or can be, obviously there are evil people of every type). Different quadras value different sorts of kindness and truth, but all value them.

    The underlined sections in the above quote again are Fi. As I said, Fi deals with relationships and opinions of people, while Fe deals with changeable emotions and internal dynamic states.

    Even if I'd never seen her post before, based on these quotes alone, my conclusion would be that Minde is an Intuitive Si-valuing Fi-Ego, that is to say, Delta NF. Considering her heavy emphasis on Fi in the later quotes, and her overall attitude expressed in the quotes, I would be leaning toward EII.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    otes, and her overall attitude expressed in the quotes, I would be leaning toward EII.
    How about SEE?

    Anyone can hide Se very well, but not if you know what to look for; Se is very adept at being hidden...it's only in a person's motivations and intentions is it a perfect way to spot it.

  37. #37
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Pinocchio, do you think you could give a summary here of what you view to be Fe and Fi? The thing is, most of what you're talking about here in terms of my appreciation for the aesthetic I think could normally be understood as belonging to Si, Ne, or even perceiving in general. I'm curious how you make that translation to Fe.

    Keep in mind, Alpha SFs (to whom you seem to be comparing me) also have Si in addition to Fe, so what you see in your dual and activator that looks like me could be not so much their Fe as their similar appreciation for Si-related things. That's one thing I actually really like about my close ESFj friend, that I can share such things with her - she likes it when I point out pretty or interesting things and we can enjoy such things together.

    One thing that I very much disagree with, and even feel borders on insulting simply because I feel so strongly about it, is what you said about me abandoning or rejecting someone because they're ugly. Something, yes, perhaps, though even then functionality can be more important. But someone? No! People's value to me depends on who they are inside, not what they look like on the outside. I would not abandon someone because of some silly external standard like "ugly".



    *sigh* There are lots of other things in this thread that I disagree with and think misrepresent me on various levels, but I feel like addressing them all would likely be pointless, particularly since most in this thread seem more interested in expressing their opinions than finding out more about me and who I really am.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Maritsa you have nothing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Maritsa you have nothing...
    Kind of like her and your morbid fascination wiht horror things.

    People observe these behaviors in you and Minde you know...doesn't that make you guys feel a little ashamed of lying and living up to things you're not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Kind of like her and your morbid fascination wiht horror things.

    People observe these behaviors in you and Minde you know...doesn't that make you guys feel a little ashamed of lying and living up to things you're not?
    Ugh, I'd feel VERY ashamed to be you Maritsa. How can you speak so negatively about someone you've never met and know absolutely nothing about. Seriously, you know NOTHING about her, in any way, shape, or form. It's time for your obsession with Minde to end before it gets out of control more than it has already... If you seriously have any, much less all... of Minde's posts printed out, do you not think it's time to just back away from the situation? What, just because she wouldn't send you a photo so you could VI her a long time ago? Really, it's getting to a point where she'll soon have to be worried about her well being knowing that you are carrying on the way you are. It's quite sick if you ask me.

    She has you on ignore, something I know she's never done to anyone in her YEARS on this forum. Whatever you have going on in your head with her really needs to stop, let it go, get over it... I'd hate to see where shit like your creepy obsession with her could end up if not dealt with any time soon.

    As I've known Minde in real life for a few years now, you've got some image in your head that is not only the complete opposite of everything about her... but you try to pass your view of her to everyone on this forum in every post you make. I can't even comprehend how she could have ever wronged you enough to turn you so against her as much as you are? For what? allegedly being the same type? Seriously... get passed it, please. Find someone else and fuck with their life... perhaps someone closer to you, and maybe even in real life... so if you treat them the way you've treated her, they could do something about it, even if it's only a good slap in the face or hit you with a shovel.

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