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Thread: Type rationalizations - dealing with a fine

  1. #1
    Creepy-cinq

    Default Type rationalizations - dealing with a fine

    Scenario:

    You’ve been handed a hefty fine by Security. You have the choice to plead guilty and pay the fine, or, plead not guilty and fight it in court. You’ve broken a ‘rule’. On the other hand, this is related to an activity that is common knowledge in the community and generally accepted - even tolerated by Security most of the time. You also know Security has a ‘quota’ to meet for divvying out fines. It’s a source of revenue for the city/state/province. So, on this night, Security is out trolling on one the best nights possible. The way Security has worded the fine leaves you open to fight on potentially reasonable grounds.

    You're leaving town for a few months, and the chances of you being present to fight this in court means you'll need to make a special trip to deal with the issue - possibly the cost of the fine and more. In any case, you must state your case - guilty or not, in the next few days and submit, or you will be summoned.




    What would you do? Identify your type (self-type), decide what you would do and explain your rationale.
    Last edited by cinq; 05-11-2010 at 02:21 AM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    I'm LII. If I actually broke the rule, I would pay the fine. The fact that "Security" normally tolerates the breaking of this rule doesn't mean I have a right to break it; it simply means that Security is not doing its job properly.

    If I didn't actually break the rule, I would fight it, no matter what it cost me. Whether or not Security has left a loophole in the way they worded the fine by which I could gain a tactical advantage is irrelevant to me. If I broke the rule, I'll plead guilty, if I didn't, I wouldn't. Likewise, if I did fight it in court, I would only use honest means to fight it; I would not exploit a loophole if doing so was in any way dishonest.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Logical vegetable Existential Potato's Avatar
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    SLI

    Since the problem exists and cannot be ignored, the best approach is the one that wastes the least time/money, whichever one that would be. How guilty you are matters little to me; I don't agree with the system anyhow, as I broke the rule in the first place.

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    El Presidente de Mi Cabeza GallopingQwerty's Avatar
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    Eh, if it's a known rule and I broke it, I'd just deal with it and pay the fine. Even if other people get away with doing the same thing, I think people take their own chances when they jump on that bandwagon so they should pay the price if the gamble doesn't work out for them.

    The only time I've ever fought a citation for a rule that was actually on the books was when a cop was only handing out tickets to people who were protesting a certain law he personally supported (not the people who were picketing in support across the street)... and even then when I filed my claim against the officer I said I'd still pay the ticket, I just thought it was extremely unfair that the cop was using his personal prejudices in that way.

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    I'll reluctantly pay the fine, and then forever avoid the area where I got fined. The only reason I would fight it is if I thought I would win, which is unlikely. I could imagine going to court and getting the fine halved as an average conclusion but it doesn't seem worth it.
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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    What would you do? Identify your type (self-type), decide what you would do and explain your rationale.
    I'm SEI, and I'd pay the fine. I'd pay it because I'd rather just lose the money than lose the money plus time plus effort plus possibly more money. Putting together a case out of non-case material could possibly be fun though.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  7. #7
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by GallopingQwerty View Post
    Eh, if it's a known rule and I broke it, I'd just deal with it and pay the fine. Even if other people get away with doing the same thing, I think people take their own chances when they jump on that bandwagon so they should pay the price if the gamble doesn't work out for them.
    this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon
    I'm SEI, and I'd pay the fine. I'd pay it because I'd rather just lose the money than lose the money plus time plus effort plus possibly more money. Putting together a case out of non-case material could possibly be fun though.
    and this.

    me = SEI

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    INTj... I would pay because fighting in court is a hassle and there is a risk of not getting any return for the effort.

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    If id be in the countries I usually reside Id just bribe the cops and dont care about any of it. Otherwise I wouldnt have the patience to go to court even if I would know it has a high chance of winning. The only exception if going to court would be relatively small expenses compared to the actual fine.
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    I'd pay the fine. If I broke the rule and got caught, it's on me, even if they don't usually go after people for it. It's the risk you take when you break a law most people break, like speeding somewhere people usually speed, etc. And it isn't worth the effort to fight, particularly since if I actually did break the law/rule I probably wouldn't win anyway. I'm IEE.

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    I would pay the fine and gtfo.

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    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    INTj... I would pay because fighting in court is a hassle and there is a risk of not getting any return for the effort.
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I'd pay the fine. If I broke the rule and got caught, it's on me, even if they don't usually go after people for it. It's the risk you take when you break a law most people break, like speeding somewhere people usually speed, etc. And it isn't worth the effort to fight, particularly since if I actually did break the law/rule I probably wouldn't win anyway. I'm IEE.
    And this too.
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  13. #13
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    Since I'm leaving town soon I'm guessing money isn't really an issue for me (I can afford to leave town) and I'm not going to feel like making a special trip over this, especially considering that I'm guilty and have no objection really on that ground (so I would probably have a serious objection to having to actually show up, i.e. why can't I just send you a check and be done with it?). Really there's no point but to just cut my losses. I apparently knew this was a rule/law that though not regularly enforced can mean a fine if I get caught and I decided to risk it anyway, so now I'm faced with the consequences, so be it. Generally it doesn't mean anything to me that it's not regularly enforced or that there was a quota and so security went out specifically looking to meet this and ran into me and it's apparently unfair given how many people get away with this... but they were all taking that risk too. It's a gamble, and sometimes when you gamble, you lose. So that's why it's wise to consider this before gambling. (If money was an issue and I saw a way I might be able to get out of this, I would be very tempted to try it especially if it was low risk.)

    As a somewhat different scenario, if there's a certain speed limit like 65 mph on the freeway but everyone drives 85 mph and I get pulled over by a cop for going 80-85 and ticketed, that would be something I would dispute/fight in the sense that it's unsafe to drive too far below 85 in this environment, so illegal or not, it's safer to go the speed everyone else is going than to go the speed limit... and then I would also bring in the argument of "why me" considering everyone was going 85. I'd probably still lose, but I would feel it important to raise the issue.

  14. #14
    Creepy-bg

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    I thought about it a bit and wanted to add that I would pay the fine mostly so that I could get it over and done with. I have a tendency to blow off tickets and court leading to warrants being issued for stupid minor shit. So if I could just pay and get it settled right there and then I would, even if I thought I was in the right.

    the other stuff about knowing it was illegal and paying the price for rolling the dice still applies though.

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    I'd try to bribe the cop, if that doesn't work I will NOT go to court and defend my case while I'm on the trip, and eventually pay only if the cops ring my bell and force me to. Basically, I would try not pay without fighting. I am so not anglo-saxon.
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    If the fine were not blatantly excessive, I would just pay it and be more careful in the future. There's no point fighting something like this most of the time.

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    If I am in favor of this particular security group, who they are, and what they stand for, I will pay the fine to help them out. If I disapprove of them, they're not getting my money.

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    If I am in favor of this particular security group, who they are, and what they stand for, I will pay the fine to help them out. If I disapprove of them, they're not getting my money.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Same as Labcoat for me... if I had nothing better to do, and there was no (or little) cost involved, I might argue against the rule itself, largely on the grounds that it isn't being enforced.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Rubicon, honey why are you crying?

    You're going to get me to cry, please talk to me dear.
    Are you alright honey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post

    What would you do? Identify your type (self-type), decide what you would do and explain your rationale.
    Plead not guilty and debate if I was in the right; if I was wrong and got a ticket for misconduct, then I am guilty and should pay the fine.

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Rubicon, honey why are you crying?

    You're going to get me to cry, please talk to me dear.
    Are you alright honey?
    Aww I was just joking.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Aww I was just joking.

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    I would try to call someone who is in charge at security making them not fine me. Arguing in a polite way that this is tolerated most of the times, that I didn't intend to cause trouble etc. If it doesn't help I would just pay the fine. No court for me.

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