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Thread: ENTjs from an ENTp's point of view

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    Default ENTjs from an ENTp's point of view

    This may turn into a flame war, so I'm am not going to post further in this topic, no matter what is said.

    Anyone who takes this personally is a tool.

    ENTjs are not lemmings. That is, they do not blindly follow one another off of cliffs, into the darkness of cold black water. It would be far more accurate to say that an ENTj is more akin to a raving fat man, who, during a brief break from several shrewdly planned hours of rambling hiking in the countryside, and in exhausted defeat from attempting to console his ISFj partner that the world will not actually end just because they don't have plans for thirteen days from now, sees the pack of lemmings in relative closeness to the edge of said cliff, and remembers reading in the dictionary that lemmings are prone to occasional, notedly comic acts of mass suicide via spontaneous free fall, yells at them to stop, because they have so much to live for, because they're being selfish, because if he saves them his ISFj companion will be impressed and put out without proper documentation or overly-dramatic recitation of gay poetry. Little does the ENTj notice that it is actually his hulking, visually offensive and geometrically baffling form that is in fact herding the adorable pack of lemmings toward their eventual destruction. Yes, the ENTj, in his stubborn insistence in using pure, tightly woven rational abominations he has misnomered "logic," has actually caused several global problems. (e.g., modern capitalism, the deep south, tobacco companies, slavery, probably the holocaust, ) This is your quasi identical, a fact which causes you severe constipation.

    Don't try to insult an ENTj - that is, don't directly call them a name or make fun of them in a way that requires them to think about what you actually meant by it. They won't. ENTjs first and foremost pretend that everything anyone ever says ever is something that they just said, and they are actually responding to themselves when they retort. For example, if you call them an idiot because of how they are making perverse assumptions, twisting the truth, and being flat-out wrong, they hear themselves calling themselves an idiot, which triggers this thought process: "I'm an idiot? Wait, no I'm not. I don't meet the criteria of 'idiot,' so I can't be, that must mean that YOU'RE an idiot! HAHA I am so smart!" Following this is usually the accusation that the true accuser is blatantly making up slanderous fiction and deserves no merit, and should be killed. The reason ENTjs do this is because their self-esteem is built precariously on the foundation of pure arrogance. They NEED to be totally arrogant because they only care about what other people think of their superficial qualities. This value system renders them oblivious to depth, underlying truths, what C.S. Lewis called "The Deep Magic." For example, an ENTj, upon reading the aforementioned bit about their reaction to being insulted, will say "Wait, in that example I actually called myself an idiot! That doesn't make any sense! Lol YOU'RE an idiot!"

    ENTjs are most easily dealt with using two methods. The first is the ENTp method of passively dealing with Te by constantly asking non-threatening questions, making observations here and there, being relatively jovial, and quietly weaving a trap web for them to not get stuck in, per se, but to notice beforehand and uncomfortably duck away from. You see, ENTjs have very unidimensional ideas of how people can come upon new (to them) information. If you claim to know about logic, but are unable to explain the differences between classical, intuitionistic, or modal logic, then to them you are nothing more than a sophomoric amateur with a tiny penis and no idea where it goes. Ironically, Socrates had a similar effect on the arrogant Athenian elite whom he systematically humiliated through this passive, dialectic approach to a discussion. Simply use common sense examples to indicate either the lack of importance in their bewilderingly moronic desire to master pointless information, (which shows a surprising lack of foresight; these are the kinds of people who read the whole chapter of a book despite it being obvious that it contains no information that will be of value to them. J-ish perfectionism perhaps leads to altruism, but don't tell them this as they won't be able to see the connection, and if you explain it to them it's obvious that we don't understand it ourselves ) or to harass their sensibilities with the idea that there is "another way" that they cannot grapple without having to look into the mirror and realize that they are essentially frightened individuals who substitute awareness of their inability to "get it" with a headstrong confidence in the value of being superficial and retarded in every way that your mind will allow you to comprehend.

    The second way is to respond to everything they say in the way an ISTp would. That is, simply act like everything spewing from their mouths was nothing more than a horny rooster waking you up from a pleasant nap so it can inform you that you're not allowed to have sex with any of the other hens and that you have to care because if you don't you're stupid.

    There is one other secret way of dealing with them: simply beat them in the face. You see, even though all ENTjs take stimulants and lift weights and drink ovaltine, they are little children in a fight. I remember one time I was talking to my friend's (16) online boyfriend Terrence (23) about how he was a total asshole and was using his sense of victimization as entitlement to emotionally manipulate my friend into an unhealthy relationship with him. His general attitude was that using a stream-of-thought text flow to confuse me and make me lose focus would cause the imaginary audience of People Who Care to tick off a few points in his favor:

    Terrence: haha peter
    T: so sad
    T: here you are
    T: wasting your time
    T: sticking your hands into things that you will never understand
    Me: Uhh....
    T: but i can see right through you
    T: your a small, pathetic little loser and and insipid failure at life
    T: why dont you crawl under your bed and ask mommy to bring you some water
    T: because you have a lot of growing up to do
    T: little boy
    T: haha your nothing
    Me: terrence
    T: and you never will be
    T: christine is my gf and i care a lot about her
    T: if you try to come between us i will drive down to florida and kick you ass little bitch
    Me: lol

    It occurred to me that there was a better way to deal with this idiocy:

    Me: Okay terrence, tell you what. Tomorrow I'm going to call Christine's dad and tell him about the 23 year old guy from new jersey who works at the zoo sending naked pics of himself in the mail to his 16 year old daughter.
    T: hahahaha you think i care?
    Me: Yes
    T: haha poor little peter, reduced to this
    Me: yeah im really upset about it
    Me: bye now

    Now, I didn't actually make the call, but terrence, in a blind rage, called out of work the next day and stayed home. Lol.

    Anyway, if you attempt to fight an ENTj, he will collapse in the fetal position exactly .2 seconds before your hand makes contact with his pearly whites, pleading you not to hit his face. This is because ENTjs do not understand physical consequences until they are forced to deal with them, which is why most of the time they walk and talk as if they were able to hire Darth Vader as their personal bodyguard.

    Now, ENTjs CAN be productive. One of them admittedly wrote Kill Bill and directed Pulp Fiction, but just as for every five trillion asians there is one over 5'6", there are always exceptions to the rules of bile.

    In closing, ENTjs pretend they are logical, when they have in fact carefully limited the amount of the universe open to serious scrutiny in order to construct a world view for themselves they can harshly defend eloquently. After all, if the whole universe is a rubber band and you spend all your life examining it, you'll be pretty good at defending the existence of that rubber band, because all other ideas are nonsense. Another way of looking at it is that an ENTj will quickly say "A + B = C and you're wrong lols." The proper response, when not prevented by constant talking or tonight's episode of Mental Masturbation with Euclid's Elements, is to say "Yes, that's true, but A and B are not real, so C is not an answer we can logically arrive at, I'm afraid." Then you walk up to them and hit them with a shovel. Drink their tears, for they are more precious than diamonds.

    Watch out: For sounds coming out of their mouths.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    I liked the first paragraph best, except the "fat" bit (yeah my PoLR).

    The "respond as an ISTp would" bit is certainly good advice if you can master it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: ENTj, from an ENTp's POV

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside
    "I'm an idiot? Wait, no I'm not. I don't meet the criteria of 'idiot,' so I can't be, that must mean that YOU'RE an idiot! HAHA I am so smart!"
    It's not like that. I'd ask you the criteria that you use to determine whether I'm an idiot or not, and if I adhere, I am.

    It's generally an okay description. In regard to physical fights, it's like that if both parties were "calm" before the fight; if it's heathed, then our lack of is helpful in not feeling the hurt.

    I also contend your example, cuz it's biased, I'd never send naked pics, only pics of my penis alone.

    I can't help but going on...I wouldn't say A+B=C, but the mighty A=B and B=C therefore A=C.

    The first paragraph was really entertaining btw.


    AND PLEASE POST! WE'RE NOT GOING to make a flame war!
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    16 year old girl with a 23 year old guy, ew. talk some sense into her

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    Hehe, there are plenty of cool ENTjs around. This description was basically a rant at the annoying ones like Ashton and Marcus the Maniac.

    My impression of certain ENTjs who lift weights and take stimulants is that they would actually crumble in a physical conflict. It's just an intuitive impression.

    Also, when insulting some ENTjs, they literally seem to put zero effort into determining what you meant by it, and instead seem to pretend they said it to themselves, and are responding to what they would have meant had they said it.

    The main annoyance I have with the "cocky, loud" ENTjs is their insistance on constantly coming to conclusions about things. I think this severely limits the scope of their ideas.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Ah ok. I didn't read that one.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    ENFp, meet Lack of Information.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    bla bla projections here projections there

    what's wrong with delta?!!!??!!

    Ha Ha!

    take some to!



    (the only thing I could provide )
    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman
    bla bla projections here projections there

    what's wrong with delta?!!!??!!

    Ha Ha!

    take some to!



    (the only thing I could provide )
    Very little projecting was done by me at all in that description. The whole concept of projection is becoming one of those cliched insults that people throw around to sound smart or to imply weaknesses in a person's views without having to actually look for them or see them.
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    How would you even know if you were projecting? You can't throw around claims like that.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan87
    How would you even know if you were projecting? You can't throw around claims like that.
    I didn't throw it, I said it.
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    An ENTp friend recently said to me, regarding a mutual ENTj acquaintance, "He's ok, but he's so damn opinionated."

    Both of them are completely ignorant about type theory, so I thought this was a really uncanny example of a P/J conflict.

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    I thought in socionics it was the dynamic types who were opinionated?

    (so, EJ and IP)
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I dunno, I've been told many times that I'm too opinionated nd/or stubborn.
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    LMFAO TERRENCE FUCKING SUCKS WHY WONT HE DIEEEEE


    poor poor christine


    i should call her


    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH TERRENCE SUCK MUH BALLS AND KRAUS'S PENIS!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zem
    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH TERRENCE SUCK MUH BALLS AND KRAUS'S PENIS!!!
    Yeah. He`s damn good at it too. :wink:
    , Se-sub
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    Being opinionated impies have personal beliefs, and beliefs in nature are irrational, which is why it is / generally as opposed to judgment.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I've been contemplating (still am) as whether I might swing more to the Socionics ENTj vs. ENTp.

    BUT...

    The first is the ENTp method of passively dealing with Te by constantly asking non-threatening questions, making observations here and there, being relatively jovial, and quietly weaving a trap web for them to not get stuck in, per se, but to notice beforehand and uncomfortably duck away from.
    I had a boss who was an MBTI ENTJ and I have to say this is exactly how I dealt with her. In some ways she's typical MBTI ENTJ but I think she had some major ego issues. (I used to call her a Deva behind her back).

    She thought she was quite brilliant but her ego made her pretty unapproachable. Basically, her own behavior denied the necessary feedback she required to do her job. No one wanted to question her or god forbid...think for themselves. If they made a mistake she tore into them. She created a situation where people were scared to think yet looked down upon them for it.

    Because she wasn't getting the feedback she required....they were all idiots. Then she would get upset and put all kinds of new rules in to ensure she got the feedback she needed from the staff (who she treated like children).

    Instead of trying to adjust her behavior, everyone else had to adjust thiers. If they didn't, she would be very condescending towards them and make them feel guilty or incompetant.

    It took 6 years of working with her, but I did eventually confront her about her behavior. Afterwards, I went into another staff person's office and was talking about it. I got emotional because well...I basically just told off my boss on behalf of the whole office (everyone else was too scared of her) and I was a wee bit scared. I had to completely shove all my fears aside to do what I did, and afterwards...they started hitting me.

    When she found out I broke down, she told other people on staff that I must have some sort of emotional dyfunction. She completely ignored our conversation and instead.... made the whole thing about how I appeared so strong and together in the meeting with her and then broke down afterwards. She said it was a mood swing and it MUST mean I was schitzo/bi-polar or suffering some other kind of psychotic disorder.

    I quit my job 3 mos later for a better one where I didn't have to put up with that type of crap.

    If I am an ENTj, apparently I'm a much nicer one than most and don't have as many ego issues.
    Polly
    ENTP

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    It's the opposite. She's not a typical ENTj or even ENTJ.

    She's an unhealthy Enneagram 8. Could be ESTp or ENTj. Perhaps even ISTj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Her tendancy to micromanage was similar to an ISTj but she knew to keep her hands out of some people's work ...like mine.

    She trusted my judgement but I seemed to be one of the few she gave that freedom to. I was the only other intuitive in the office. I was also one of the only ones who wasn't intimidated by the behavior and she respected me for giving her feedback when no one else would.

    I would imagine that my confrontation with her felt like somewhat of a betrayal coming from someone she felt she had taken under her wing. I just felt it had to be done and was tired of waiting for someone else to do it.

    We did actually have the smoothest ran Faculty at the University under her leadership. My philosphy was, just how much more efficient could it have been if people weren't scared to do their jobs?

    She would logically place people in positions she felt were appropriate at the time. Without realizing, that by moving some people from position to position because you don't have confidence in their abilities is actually a form of Workplace Harassment (or maybe she did know and wanted them gone).

    Profession wise, she fit the profile. Executive and lead administrator in a Health Field. She was actually the first females to ever have her position in the country. She was used to bossing doctors and academics around. Some of those within her own administration didn't have a chance.

    Her professional opinions was VERY well respected and those even senior to her would seek her input.

    I never at anytime felt she was incompetant. I just felt that her management style actually harmed her employees. I have worked with many who might use similar bully tactics (hers were much more subtle though most times) but who couldn't boast her competance.

    I still think an MBTI ENTJ just one suffering from narcissism. I'm so making a post about narcissism and intellect. I tend to be attracted to and connect with intellectual types but also seem to run into a huge level of narcissism with that group as well.

    I think if you put her up against an ESTj or ESTp she'd eat them up and spit them out.
    Polly
    ENTp

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    From your description, she could be a very intelligent ESTp logical subtype. Nothing speaks against it from what you described.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  22. #22

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    Well, I know alot of ENTJs, and I am sure they would think this whole discussion is very complimentary. It speaks of qualities I rather admire in them, at any rate.
    A woman who paints her face must be careful not to act like a clown.

    ENTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba Priest
    Well, I know alot of ENTJs, and I am sure they would think this whole discussion is very complimentary. It speaks of qualities I rather admire in them, at any rate.
    ENTjs don't want to be hated by everyone. I don't think any type would find this complimentary, especially a type that has ESFj as their superego type.

    When I read Polly's text, it made me a bit sad. I have known for a long time, that if I ever become a boss, I have to look out for some possible mistakes that I might make. Polly listed every one of those possible mistakes.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    ENTjs don't want to be hated by everyone.
    No one WANTS to be hated by everyone. Gamma and Delta logical types don't mind not being "well liked" as much as Alpha or Beta. Fe is the 3rd function for ExTjs and the 4th function for IxTps. These types are a hell of a lot more concerned with what is accurate than they are about whether or not people feel warm and fuzzy when thinking about them.
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    I like this thread about ENTjs from an ISFj POV.

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    sounds more like ESTp to me
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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