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Thread: Hey i have a question, or two

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    Default Hey i have a question, or two

    Is there a way to take a test to see where i fall into the 3-letter code socionics uses? By MBTI i am an infp, and that links me to IEI apparently(Strong Ni), but i also noticed that the Intuition(Ni) and Feeling(Fe) concepts have been reversed. Whereas, in MBTI for an infp it is extroverted Intuition, and introverted Feeling. Am i mistaken or have these concepts reversed.

    Also, What are the properties of each of the quadrants? I see that people like to bounce back and forth between 2, and im just curious as to what are the tell-tale signs of each. Essentially, what are the differences between the mindsets?

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    This is a good test:

    Socionics Type Assistant TURBO XL

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    So that told me that i was an INFP(lol) with the N and the F really high but the I and the P close to the bottom.
    Im still confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    So that told me that i was an INFP(lol) with the N and the F really high but the I and the P close to the bottom.
    Im still confused.
    What is Ni to you?

    There are so many differences between mindsets; that has to do with or comes from the functions that people value, their own personal values, lots of things.

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    I dont claim to know much, as everything ive learned, ive just haphazardly picked up along the way.

    Ni is the percieving process that enables you to read between the lines really well, with people at least. For instance, last new years i was at a party, everybody was drinking and there were two sisters.

    Sister 1 was recieving lots of attention, playing beer pong and taking off her clothes.

    Sister 2 was alone, sitting in the corner and looking irritated. Not embarrased but irritated. This is key.

    When sister 1 eventually was about to take off her last remnants of clothing, as drunken attention seeking women will occasionally do. Sister 2 pops up and yells at her sister. "These are my friends! You're acting like a whore, you're embarrasing me!" and eventually sister 1 starts putting her clothes back on.

    15 minutes later the beer pong games have started again and the situation is unfolding in the exact same manner. Sister 1 joyous and soon to be stripping, Sister 2 quiet and frustrated. But, as soon as the sister 1 is nearly naked, "Jeff" appears.

    "Jeff" starts talking to sister 2 and flirting, suddenly its not a big deal that her sister 1 is a drunken "whore" anymore.

    She just wanted attention like her sister was getting.

    The Ni was what made me draw this conclusion once she made her big "My friends" speech. And her actions once "Jeff" whisker her off her feet validified it. I hope this answered your question. lol.

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    Pookie, 3 pieces of advice.

    1) Don't listen to anything Maritsa says about Socionics.
    2) Check out www.wikisocion.org to help type yourself. (has various type and "function" descriptions, good beginner material)
    3) Start over and ignore MBTI when talking and learning about Socionics.

    I'm posting this because Socionics tests usually aren't all that good. Also I'd be happy to type you eventually, when there's more information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I dont claim to know much, as everything ive learned, ive just haphazardly picked up along the way.

    Ni is the percieving process that enables you to read between the lines really well, with people at least. For instance, last new years i was at a party, everybody was drinking and there were two sisters.

    Sister 1 was recieving lots of attention, playing beer pong and taking off her clothes.

    Sister 2 was alone, sitting in the corner and looking irritated. Not embarrased but irritated. This is key.

    When sister 1 eventually was about to take off her last remnants of clothing, as drunken attention seeking women will occasionally do. Sister 2 pops up and yells at her sister. "These are my friends! You're acting like a whore, you're embarrasing me!" and eventually sister 1 starts putting her clothes back on.

    15 minutes later the beer pong games have started again and the situation is unfolding in the exact same manner. Sister 1 joyous and soon to be stripping, Sister 2 quiet and frustrated. But, as soon as the sister 1 is nearly naked, "Jeff" appears.

    "Jeff" starts talking to sister 2 and flirting, suddenly its not a big deal that her sister 1 is a drunken "whore" anymore.

    She just wanted attention like her sister was getting.

    The Ni was what made me draw this conclusion once she made her big "My friends" speech. And her actions once "Jeff" whisker her off her feet validified it. I hope this answered your question. lol.
    I just lost it...laughing my pants off at what you wrote...

    @Poli

    Oh lighten up, have fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    That sounds like Ne from Socionics, the Intuition of potential, like what are peoples' capabilities, what are they "charged with", most likely motivations, etc. Ni is about the evolution in time, like all the possibilities that can happen, based on the current "momentum" of things.

    It appears to me that you're an IEE - in four letter code is ENFp, . I'm not saying that you're an Extroverted type just for the fact that your are an Ne type, but because it appears that you're an IEE as a whole, and Irrational as well. Very hard to explain what all this means, but IMO take a look on the descriptions, start with IEE, then EII, IEI, EIE - all these are the NFs.
    ---

    Edit: yes, don't listen to Maritsa if you want to actually understand something.
    My mother is EII, my Sister EIE, my brother IEE and i tested as IEI. So differentiating between the Nf's is probably the only thing i really know, in regards to socionics lol.

    With that in mind, could you explain to me why i appear to be IEE as a whole?

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    What others said about not listening to Maritsa, or anyone else who will tell you they know for sure what you are, especially after you've only written a few short posts.

    There's a very recent thread about guessing at people's intentions - you might want to look it up, it's mostly Ni-oriented but shows that most people draw such conclusions, just in different ways.

    Are your family's typings MBTI translated? Because if so, don't take them seriously for comparison. I know a self-typed ENTP who is now a self-typed SEI (ISFp), and while I think she got it right this time, the move from MBTI was confusing. Also keep in mind that whatever definitions of Ni/Ne and other functions you've heard of in context of MBTI, they're probably incompatible with socionics.


    And if you really want a test, try this one: Socionics Test: Determine Your Sociotype . It works better if you can't recognize functions' descriptions (i.e. if you know little about socionics), though. Because if you do, you can as well consciously decide which functions you use - that's what you'd be doing in this test anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    story
    Yup. Sounds like Ni to me. Sounds like the way I would draw conclusions too. So I would at least start with Ni ego types. If you want people to type you, it would help if you would answer some sort of general questions about yourself: what pisses you off in others? in yourself? What do you wish you did differently? What do you admire in other people? What do you like best about yourself? What do you like least about yourself? What sorts of things are you best at/enjoy most? What sorts of things are your worst at/enjoy least? Is there a quadra you identify with (alpha, beta, gamma, delta)? Who do you admire most and why? Who do you think is a failure of a person and why? What qualities attract you? What qualities repulse you? (either romantically or platonically).

    Those sorts of things are sort of surface level, but I think they sort of help people get an idea of who you are (and how you write) and that sort of helps with the typing process. Otherwise, if you have specific questions about the functions, about the intertype relationships, about the quadras, etc., I'm sure I would be glad to try to help, as would others.

    EDIT:

    You asked about quadras. Well...

    Alpha as a quadra values Fe, Ti, Ne, and Si. Valuing Ne and Si means that alphas tend not to be very confrontational or in-your-face. They like to avoid aggression and extreme behavior as a means of communicating or as an ordinary state of things. They do like atmospheres with strong emotion though, since they value Fe. Alphas tends to be more chill than beta, but more zany than delta. Alphas often just want to have a good time and enjoy life, and maybe make a few interesting scientific discoveries along the way. Alphas will have lengthy theoretical discussions but not really get heated or argumentative, as a rule. They like sort of fun, frivolous, and random activities and humor. Emphasis on the random; alphas love that sort of "comes out of nowhere" random humor.

    Beta values Fe, Ti, Ni, and Se. Valuing Ni and Se means that betas tend to be more in-your-face and appreciate confrontation and pressure in conversation and in dealing with others. Beta people tend to value "keeping it real" not being fake, expressing any and all emotion without hesitation and without focusing so much on how other people will feel about it. Betas values being "honest" with emotions and firm in convictions. Betas tend to like to have causes or motivations or something that they can believe in firmly and work for/towards diligently and energetically. Betas tend to be the most extreme in behavior of all the quadras and love sort of emotional combustible environments, passionate exchanges, etc. Betas will also have intense theoretical arguments that get very heated. To others it might seem like they have getting mad at each other for no reason, but it's just being beta--we love to spar with one another, physically, intellectually, etc.

    Gamma values Fi, Te, Ni, and Se. They, like betas, enjoy having a clear goal and driving towards it, but they generally feel that some beta behavior is unnecessary or pointlessly extreme, extreme for the sake of being extreme. Gammas don't really do anything pointlessly or randomly (which is a source of much conflict with easygoing alphas). They have defined aims and they drive towards them forcefully. Of course, they also know how to have fun, and the gamma SFs can be very lighthearted and easygoing... up to a point. Gammas have a focus on achievement, achieving serious goals, building real relationships, etc.

    Delta values Fi, Te, Ne, and Si. Deltas have a focus on supporting one another and listening to each other and achieving goals together. Delta NFs in particular tend to be advocates for big "causes" motivated by compassion, such as helping those who are very poor, raising money for cancer research, and especially raising awareness of issues of discrimination and the like. Deltas are very practical and down-to-earth and tend to focus on making the most of things, living a happy, comfortable life, etc. Deltas are annoyed by individuals they perceive as selfish or self-centered, and are very focused on "growing up" and "maturity" as hallmarks of a well-lived life.
    Last edited by silverchris9; 05-09-2010 at 01:18 PM.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Ok, so this is going to be long, and rather uncensored in some portions. But i feel thats for the better if im to learn anything here. Forgive me if i might offend you at certain spots.

    what pisses you off in others? Someone who puts themselves as the top priority over those they are closest to. Hypocritical behavior. People who are driven to impress others, rather than improve themselves. Pleasure driven behavior. The concept of status or Image.

    In yourself? My lethargicness. My inability to accomplish tasks i dont find stimulating.

    What do you wish you did differently? Acted on Impulse more often, i couldnt tell you the amount of positive things ive passed up by simply thinking too much about it and psyching myself out, or passing up things that are offered because i dont want to feel like an added weight.

    What do you admire in other people? To me, admiration is one of the emotions farthest removed from understanding. If i understand someone, they aren't viewed on a pedastool. I know there good qualities and i know their bad qualities. It all comes together as one cohesive ying yang balancing act and i try to appease the whims of their personality. Admiration on the other hand, is given to those we dont know fully, for traits we dont identify in ourselves. But traits that would be benificial to ourselves if we had them. With that said: I admire those who constantly start projects, and finish them. People who arent afraid to take charge of a situation, to lead. People who have the practicality to synthesize with their rational side and handle the mundane tasks that i ignore. And probably more so.

    What do you like best about yourself? I am Kind. I feel good when i make others feel good. I can learn in my head, understand the variables of this and that and act appropriately. I bust peoples balls, all the time. Most people think im kidding, but normally im telling my truthful opinion - those who know me see i do so with good intentions. Its not until something is addressed can we act to change it, and shit, if they dont see it, Not telling them is only hindering them. And that inaction would make me a terrible friend.

    What sorts of things are you best at/enjoy most? Once someone points out an insightful point or observation, i can absorb it and expand, Filling in the blanks and understanding the variables that can make the insight wrong or even more true than originally expected. Breaking down fighters in combat sports, understanding through watching and theorizing. Finding what it will take to beat them, and at the same time, what will never work. I think in motion. Im good with juggling and weighing concepts. Dealing with the subjective, while holding firm the humbling belief that nothing is objective. Im absurdly optimistic, with the occasional feeling of foreboding danger to keep me in check. Im good with kids, and im good with finding the words to describe how i feel about an issue.

    What sorts of things are your worst at/enjoy least? Organization, Using the facts. Being a Host. Keeping my sense logic when im emotionally perturbed. Coming up with things to do. Being sensitive and tactful to things im not aware of. For instance: the occasional spousal abuse joke has backfired, as have the occasional rape joke. But, shiiit. Maybe that girl shouldnt have been drinking so much. How do you even know you were raped, when you cant even remember the night? Sounds like a not so well thought out excuse to garner pity from others, but i digress. And possibly apologize.

    Is there a quadra you identify with (alpha, beta, gamma, delta)? I appreciate Random nonsensical nonsense. Like furry bunny barbarians fighting dragons on horseback for the throne of guatamala. Also, cartoon metaphors. I do that alot. But, mainly Beta now that ive found a way to look it up. Heated theoretical discussion, bouncing ideas back and forth with banter. The heated aspect comes from getting caught in the moment and the innate need to be understood. Not so much from anger or feeling that im right. I feel honest expression is key to understanding yourself, and therefore understanding others eventually. However, I dont deal well with serious confrontation. But rather i shy away from it until i tantrum.

    Who do you think is a failure of a person and why? The Self-centered, uncompassionate. But other than those who live purely for themselves, i feel practically everyone is a balancing act of the good and bad that comes with different cognitive skills. Ti and Fe for instance both do certain things well and certain things bad. Ying Yang magic.

    What qualities attract you? Hmm... theres so many qualities out there. If i was to break down the spectrum of personality into 4 aspects - the Abstract, the Down to Earth, the Deep, and the Edgy - I would choose the Deep and the Abstract. The down to earth i dont relate to, as im not here on earth. Im in the sky whisping around, and honestly i don't give a damn about your car or your shoes. And the deep is for emotional comfort. Someone who looks within themselves enough to be molded by the metaphorical water pressure that comes from being at the bottom of the ocean. Aka the morals and values deepest at their core.

    What qualities repulse you? The Materialistic & the self-centered. These i am instinctually predjudice against. Also, the type of cowardice that comes from running away from the issues every individual knows they need to put in check the most. Since relationships are symbiotic exchanges with the people we love most, we effect the people we care for the most with our actions and thoughts. We exchange with those people more than anyone else(optimally). If someone doesnt have the resolve to handle his or her own worst qualities, i feel that person is selfish to the point where he or she is putting themselves ahead of who they are supposed to love the most.

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    I get the sense that you are ISTj

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    I think you're INFj. You seem very passive...
    Don't listen to Maritsa - she is not qualified. You are not ISTj.
    Best to go read the sites polikjum showed you and decide for yourself.
    INTp

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    Pookie, would you ever give us a VI photo?

    @crazedrat

    I like pleasure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    @crazedrat

    I like pleasure.
    ....what?
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Maritsa, you not even a tangential connection with the reality of types and functions, apart for the observation that I ignored her "preference for Beta". It is true, I ignored it because people have idealized ways in seeing the quadras. Most likely she overlooked Delta for the reason that it was described with down-to-earth people, which is not true for Delta NFs, not true at all.
    It is true overall, for the whole quadra, eg they're not people who try to improve things like Alphas, neither discontent and selective like Betas, nor want to necessarily bring progress and development like Gammas, so this can be named down-to-earth, but that's all.

    Edit: PS - Maritsa, you're not what you say anyway, neither EII nor practical, you're just an i-dont-know-wtf-is-with-me.

    Knowing someones good/bad qualities is not Fi


    ISTj...and Ti...with Se....

    "If i was to break down the spectrum of personality into 4 aspects - the Abstract, the Down to Earth, the Deep, and the Edgy - I would choose the Deep and the Abstract. "

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    I apologize, i forgot the golden rule for posting on forums. I am a Male. Pookie always confuses people, and i nearly always forget.

    I passed up Delta, because of 2 things. The practical-Down to earth statement, and the motivation to act for "Big" causes. I dont really feel like helping the big causes ever really helps anything out. I feel like Protestors miss the point, anybody can complain, but rarely do people actually suggest solutions. For all my talk of compassion and whatnot, i really do only reserve that mindset for the people i know. My family or the closest ring of friends, people that i can see the benefit happening with. For instance, i can treat my little sisters as my world, because i can see how that makes them feel. But if i gave to Aids research or some other big cause, i would get disenchanted with it. How do i really know im benefiting someone with that money? They could be disheartened with the system, or the money might even get squandered away foolishly, and my money wont mean a damn in comparison to the effect i could have had around me.

    But, maybe its just the wording of the paragraph that leaves me that impression.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I apologize, i forgot the golden rule for posting on forums. I am a Male. Pookie always confuses people, and i nearly always forget.

    I passed up Delta, because of 2 things. The practical-Down to earth statement, and the motivation to act for "Big" causes. I dont really feel like helping the big causes ever really helps anything out. I feel like Protestors miss the point, anybody can complain, but rarely do people actually suggest solutions. For all my talk of compassion and whatnot, i really do only reserve that mindset for the people i know. My family or the closest ring of friends, people that i can see the benefit happening with. For instance, i can treat my little sisters as my world, because i can see how that makes them feel. But if i gave to Aids research or some other big cause, i would get disenchanted with it. How do i really know im benefiting someone with that money? They could be disheartened with the system, or the money might even get squandered away foolishly, and my money wont mean a damn in comparison to the effect i could have had around me.

    But, maybe its just the wording of the paragraph that leaves me that impression.
    Actually, somewhat stereotypically, "Big", grand, large-scale and passionate causes are rather Beta. Delta causes tend to be more personal and localized, ime. What you said about being motivated by love for those close to you smacks of Fi. Nothing that you said right there necessarily puts you in any quadra, though.


    And it's nice to meet you
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I apologize, i forgot the golden rule for posting on forums. I am a Male. Pookie always confuses people, and i nearly always forget.

    I passed up Delta, because of 2 things. The practical-Down to earth statement, and the motivation to act for "Big" causes. I dont really feel like helping the big causes ever really helps anything out. I feel like Protestors miss the point, anybody can complain, but rarely do people actually suggest solutions. For all my talk of compassion and whatnot, i really do only reserve that mindset for the people i know. My family or the closest ring of friends, people that i can see the benefit happening with. For instance, i can treat my little sisters as my world, because i can see how that makes them feel. But if i gave to Aids research or some other big cause, i would get disenchanted with it. How do i really know im benefiting someone with that money? They could be disheartened with the system, or the money might even get squandered away foolishly, and my money wont mean a damn in comparison to the effect i could have had around me.

    But, maybe its just the wording of the paragraph that leaves me that impression.
    Yeah thanks for confirming your type.
    You are ISTj type.

    @Pinocchio
    Next time read please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    I agree with this. Betas want to usually be the heroes.
    Then why is Sean Penn and other LSE do hero roles and not beta men?
    You don't know how to type and you are fing the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    I agree with this. Betas want to usually be the heroes.
    That's not to say, of course, that no Delta can want to impact things on a large scale, or that they can't work toward and be concerned about big ideals. And, likewise, it's not impossible for Betas to be happy homebodys. But in terms of trends and stereotypes, yeah. Fe/Ti + Ni/Se = epic wars and battles and striving and glory, from my perspective, heh. (I exaggerate here, which I hope is obvious.)
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    That's not to say, of course, that no Delta can want to impact things on a large scale, or that they can't work toward and be concerned about big ideals. And, likewise, it's not impossible for Betas to be happy homebodys. But in terms of trends and stereotypes, yeah. Fe/Ti + Ni/Se = epic wars and battles and striving and glory, from my perspective, heh. (I exaggerate here, which I hope is obvious.)
    That's has nothing to do with humanitarian concerns; that's war and we don't favor such things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I apologize, i forgot the golden rule for posting on forums. I am a Male. Pookie always confuses people, and i nearly always forget.

    I passed up Delta, because of 2 things. The practical-Down to earth statement, and the motivation to act for "Big" causes. I dont really feel like helping the big causes ever really helps anything out. I feel like Protestors miss the point, anybody can complain, but rarely do people actually suggest solutions. For all my talk of compassion and whatnot, i really do only reserve that mindset for the people i know. My family or the closest ring of friends, people that i can see the benefit happening with. For instance, i can treat my little sisters as my world, because i can see how that makes them feel. But if i gave to Aids research or some other big cause, i would get disenchanted with it. How do i really know im benefiting someone with that money? They could be disheartened with the system, or the money might even get squandered away foolishly, and my money wont mean a damn in comparison to the effect i could have had around me.
    But, maybe its just the wording of the paragraph that leaves me that impression.
    LSI, read the description and tell me what you think.

    Read Diana's posts on compassion, you will relate because you two have the same values on this matter...I will attach a thread link, she is also ISTj.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ompassion.html

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    Actually, my SLI husband has said basically that same exact thing. I think charities closer to home with people you know is an Fi value, and giving to big charities is more Fe.

    Hopefully by now you've learned not to listen to Maritsa.

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    pookie you sound like an IEE to me. only delta NF's complain of others being self centered as an area of primary repulsion. welcome to the forum!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    @crazedrat

    I like pleasure.
    Maritsa, some of your posts lately have made my soul swell with joy. This was one of them.

    Okay, on the serious tip, I'm going to just go question by question and give my thought process on what points to what.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Ok, so this is going to be long, and rather uncensored in some portions. But i feel thats for the better if im to learn anything here. Forgive me if i might offend you at certain spots.

    what pisses you off in others? Someone who puts themselves as the top priority over those they are closest to. Hypocritical behavior. People who are driven to impress others, rather than improve themselves. Pleasure driven behavior. The concept of status or Image.
    Hmmm... This also made me want to think Alpha or Delta, as people often associate status/image with Se valuing types... hypocritical isn't really type related, more like what you find hypocritical. Maybe you could give an example of hypocritical behavior that bothers you? "Puts themselves as top" is a complaint Deltas (esp. NFs) often give about Betas (esp. NFs).

    In yourself? My lethargicness. My inability to accomplish tasks i dont find stimulating.
    Hmmm... but this here sounds like Te-polr... (said in a cowboy accent). Do Delta NFs relate to this feeling of inability to accomplish tasks they're not interested in? I find that Delta NFs complain more often of starting tasks and not completing them. Does it help you more when others provide practical advice on how to accomplish those tasks in the quickest/most efficient way, or does it help you more when someone you like tells you to do it, and does it with you? Or even if they just work on something else while you work on that? And I don't mean tells you to do it in a "HEY YOU BETTER DO THAT OR ELSE" way, more of a, "Come on, let's sit down and get this done together," kind of way.

    What do you wish you did differently? Acted on Impulse more often, i couldnt tell you the amount of positive things ive passed up by simply thinking too much about it and psyching myself out, or passing up things that are offered because i dont want to feel like an added weight.
    This definitely sounds like Se-seeking. I feel that way all the time. Ni-egos often feel as though we spend too much time in our heads and not enough in the real world. We wish that we could spend more of our time just purely acting and moving and just doing things, as you said, on impulse, rather than rationalizing and overthinking and everything. Interesting what you said about feeling "like an added weight". Do you think those feelings would be eased if someone was very clear about wanting you to join in? I know I tend to be uncomfortable joining a group until someone makes it very clear not only that I am generally welcome in the group, but that they in particular want me to be in the group. Then I don't feel like an extra weight. On the other hand, that "added weight" thing could come less out of a Beta NF anxiety about being wanted/Se-seeking, and more of a Delta NF desire to be considerate of others, observe social boundaries, not intrude on other people, etc.

    What do you admire in other people? To me, admiration is one of the emotions farthest removed from understanding. If i understand someone, they aren't viewed on a pedastool. I know there good qualities and i know their bad qualities. It all comes together as one cohesive ying yang balancing act and i try to appease the whims of their personality. Admiration on the other hand, is given to those we dont know fully, for traits we dont identify in ourselves. But traits that would be benificial to ourselves if we had them. With that said: I admire those who constantly start projects, and finish them. People who arent afraid to take charge of a situation, to lead. People who have the practicality to synthesize with their rational side and handle the mundane tasks that i ignore. And probably more so.
    Hmm... This actually sounds Beta NF to me as well. Granted, betas are inclined to put people on pedestals. We want to make things as epic and grand as possible, so we like to have heroes who are great and ideal. But if there's any type in beta that sort of wants to realize every side of a hero, it's an IEI. And the way you said it... eh, smacks of Ni to me. But again, there's an argument for this to be a more Delta NF thing. But what you said about not being afraid to take charge of a situation is a clear indication of Se-seeking. Handle the mundane tasks actually sounds like the way I'd say it, which is that they handle the tasks and get them done quickly (which is associated with Se, and in particular with SLEs and Te-demonstrative), but not that they focus on those details and trying to fine-tune them, which is more associated with Delta STs (i.e., Te and Si). A way this difference is often explained is to say that beta STs (Se and Ti in their ego) focus on effectiveness, while delta STs (Te and Si in their ego) focus on efficiency or optimization. Effectiveness deals with mundane tasks, but only insofar as they are necessary for a non-mundane goal. The mundane tasks aren't important unless they are given importance as a part of achieving something larger. Efficiency or optimization, on the other hand, recognizes that the overall goal is always better served and can run more smoothly if the details are in the optimum condition. You never know when something will come up, so if you get the boring stuff out of the way, you won't have to deal with it if something horrible happens. This leads to a concern with details almost for their own sake, because focusing on the details makes everything run smoothly and uses resources in the most intelligent and responsible way.
    What do you like best about yourself? I am Kind. I feel good when i make others feel good. I can learn in my head, understand the variables of this and that and act appropriately. I bust peoples balls, all the time. Most people think im kidding, but normally im telling my truthful opinion - those who know me see i do so with good intentions. Its not until something is addressed can we act to change it, and shit, if they dont see it, Not telling them is only hindering them. And that inaction would make me a terrible friend.
    Hmmm... sounds NF. Telling the truth but making it seem like you're kidding is a classic beta NF "clown" move. Do any Delta NFs relate to this? Also, as a beta, I just kind of have to say AMEN to this.

    What sorts of things are you best at/enjoy most? Once someone points out an insightful point or observation, i can absorb it and expand, Filling in the blanks and understanding the variables that can make the insight wrong or even more true than originally expected. Breaking down fighters in combat sports, understanding through watching and theorizing. Finding what it will take to beat them, and at the same time, what will never work. I think in motion. Im good with juggling and weighing concepts. Dealing with the subjective, while holding firm the humbling belief that nothing is objective. Im absurdly optimistic, with the occasional feeling of foreboding danger to keep me in check. Im good with kids, and im good with finding the words to describe how i feel about an issue.
    Okay, this settles it for me. You're Beta NF, in my opinion. Especially "what will never work". That's the core of Ni vs. Ne to me. An Ne dominant would almost never say "that will never work," rather, they would look at the ways that it could work, but also show that another strategy could probably work in more ways or is more likely to work. Whereas me, on the other hand, I will just say, "no, that plan won't work, find another one." That's Ni insight. Also the idea that nothing is ever fully objective is a frequent Beta NF mantra. Good with words (especially to express feelings) is yet another common Beta NF feature.

    What sorts of things are your worst at/enjoy least? Organization, Using the facts. Being a Host. Keeping my sense logic when im emotionally perturbed. Coming up with things to do. Being sensitive and tactful to things im not aware of. For instance: the occasional spousal abuse joke has backfired, as have the occasional rape joke. But, shiiit. Maybe that girl shouldnt have been drinking so much. How do you even know you were raped, when you cant even remember the night? Sounds like a not so well thought out excuse to garner pity from others, but i digress. And possibly apologize.
    lol. More beta-ness.

    Is there a quadra you identify with (alpha, beta, gamma, delta)? I appreciate Random nonsensical nonsense. Like furry bunny barbarians fighting dragons on horseback for the throne of guatamala. Also, cartoon metaphors. I do that alot. But, mainly Beta now that ive found a way to look it up. Heated theoretical discussion, bouncing ideas back and forth with banter. The heated aspect comes from getting caught in the moment and the innate need to be understood. Not so much from anger or feeling that im right. I feel honest expression is key to understanding yourself, and therefore understanding others eventually. However, I dont deal well with serious confrontation. But rather i shy away from it until i tantrum.
    lol. The random nonsense bit sounds Ne, but I dunno, I can appreciate the good random joke now and then too (and I'm working on a theory wherein Ni likes randomness too, just that it focuses on the suprising juxtaposition, the incongruity or the similarity pulled out of the difference, if that makes sense. The category error). I totally relate to the bit about heated discussion. Tantruming is also (sadly) a Beta NF characteristic, especially IEIs, who are nice and nice and nice and nice and then BOOOM! and then we feel better.
    Who do you think is a failure of a person and why? The Self-centered, uncompassionate. But other than those who live purely for themselves, i feel practically everyone is a balancing act of the good and bad that comes with different cognitive skills. Ti and Fe for instance both do certain things well and certain things bad. Ying Yang magic.
    Hm. I think that your stance on self-centeredness is another example (I was talking about this on another thread) of a philosophy that seems very Fi (I mean, it's explicitly focus on obligations to other people, which is close to the heart of Fi), but is expressed and considered in a very Ni way, very philosophical and theoretical. I mean, even look at the language: "The Self-centered". It's a typical Beta NF sort of "force" or "concept" that sort of whirls around in your brain with the other concepts (internal dynamics of fields).

    What qualities attract you? Hmm... theres so many qualities out there. If i was to break down the spectrum of personality into 4 aspects - the Abstract, the Down to Earth, the Deep, and the Edgy - I would choose the Deep and the Abstract. The down to earth i dont relate to, as im not here on earth. Im in the sky whisping around, and honestly i don't give a damn about your car or your shoes. And the deep is for emotional comfort. Someone who looks within themselves enough to be molded by the metaphorical water pressure that comes from being at the bottom of the ocean. Aka the morals and values deepest at their core.
    lol. More Beta NFs ness. Especially the not down to earth stuff.

    What qualities repulse you? The Materialistic & the self-centered. These i am instinctually predjudice against. Also, the type of cowardice that comes from running away from the issues every individual knows they need to put in check the most. Since relationships are symbiotic exchanges with the people we love most, we effect the people we care for the most with our actions and thoughts. We exchange with those people more than anyone else(optimally). If someone doesnt have the resolve to handle his or her own worst qualities, i feel that person is selfish to the point where he or she is putting themselves ahead of who they are supposed to love the most.
    More Ni-ish philosophy. Even though it's about a typically Fi-topic, it's approached in an Ni + Ti manner. I should probably provide more evidence and analysis of this point, and I'd like to return to it later, but can't promise that I actually will. Do others agree with me on this?
    silverchris9, what do you think? IMO it's clear that she's an Delta NF. I'm not sure about which type, assuming that admiration of people who can lead is her Dual-seeking, I'd say EII > IEE. In the end, EIIs are also not so organized.
    Eh, Pinnochio, I'd like to agree with you on this, but I think I've gotta go with aixelsyd on this. Beta NF, probably IEI. lol. Everyone on the internet is IEI. But I think that NF is clear and Delta NF would be the thing I would encourage you to look at, pookie, after Beta NF, and explore what fits best.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Hey thanks for all the feedback from everyone.

    I have reading to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Pookie, would you ever give us a VI photo?

    @crazedrat

    I like pleasure.

    What is a VI Photo, and maybe. Depends, what is this pleasure you speak of?

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    I agree with Aixelsyd and Silverchris that Pookie is an IEI. I was going to do a statment by statement analysis as to why but it looks like Silverchris beat me to it.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Maybe you could give an example of hypocritical behavior that bothers you?
    Hmm... well, when someone will complain or make a point about what someone is doing, and then not catch themselves when they do the same thing.

    They don't like when someone else does "that", but when they do "that" it doesnt even register. And if you point it out to them, its because of "this". Not realizing that everybody has a "this" that compels their actions. Rigidness with the way others act, while having flexibility about themselves. That bothers me.


    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Does it help you more when others provide practical advice on how to accomplish those tasks in the quickest/most efficient way, or does it help you more when someone you like tells you to do it, and does it with you? Or even if they just work on something else while you work on that? And I don't mean tells you to do it in a "HEY YOU BETTER DO THAT OR ELSE" way, more of a, "Come on, let's sit down and get this done together," kind of way.
    Man, i can work well with groups once the big picture is flushed out. If someone can point out that this, this, and this make that. Ill have no problem doing my small part as they do theirs. We can meld later. But without it being flushed out, working in groups is irritating, because i just feel like screaming what the fuck are we doing to get all the dawdelers on my wave length. If i dont know what im doing, it bothers me astronomically if someone in my group is lolligagging.


    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Interesting what you said about feeling "like an added weight". Do you think those feelings would be eased if someone was very clear about wanting you to join in?
    Nope. Not at all. For instance, my rasta friend phil bought some beers last night. There was quite a few people over, drinking. But i was very withdrawn from drinking any of his beer. I didnt pay for it. Even after he said not to worry and i could have as many as i liked, i still only had 2 and i felt like i needed to pay a dollar to have my second.
    I can be kind in giving, but i dont deal well with recieving kind gestures. However, i do recieve fair gestures well. If i earned it.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I'm working on a theory wherein Ni likes randomness too, just that it focuses on the suprising juxtaposition, the incongruity or the similarity pulled out of the difference, if that makes sense. The category error.
    I cant picture what your saying, but i might have followed that. Can't give words to explain even what i think that means, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    I don't - just for the record, like your post. You're mistyped yourself and your decisions always depend on the crowd so I don't know if your opinion matters so much - what you tell was already told.

    The last time when you've done this and I asked you justification, you just quoted from Wikisocion with the same stolidity you post unjustified conclusions. I don't understand your eagerness to misguide all the new users towards your "opinion".
    ---

    @Pookie: this is no hubris, it's an old story, too long to tell. Basically this forums swarm with very opinionated people who have little idea of correctly (not a "correct" method, but finding the real types of people) typing or in the theory. Sometimes I feel like letting this rot behind, other times I remember that fact that for the stupidity to prevail, all what's necessary is to withdraw. Stupid people always will be active.
    I'm just stating my opinion of Pookie's type, I never said it was an indisputable fact that she's an IEI. I'm not intending to misguide anyone. Ultimately it's Pookie's decision to decide whether or not she agrees with my assessment. And there is no clear consensus that she's IEI. EII, IEE, and LSI have also been suggested. I would have said IEI regardless of what others typed her. Because in my opinion (and that's all it is) the way Pookie described herself best matches IEI. Just because Aixelsyd and Silverchris got the same impression doesn't mean I'm blindly following the crowd.

    But for the record, Aixelsyd and Silverchris are far more competent at typing in my opinion than you and Maritsa are. Krig is competent at typing too as are several people on this forum. I'll admit that I'm probably not very good at typing others yet. But at least I admit that. But you know what? It's a free world and we all have the right to express our opinions (which are just opinions not the undisputed truth) about peoples' types. You have the right too.

    If you think I'm mistyped that's your right. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm also entitled to mine. I'm not going to convert over to EII just because you think that's what I am. I'm going to need something more convincing than just one person's opinion.

    Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. Obviously you're not going to budge with this. You think I'm closed to considering any type other than LII. Obviously that's not true. I did seriously consider the possibility of EII for awhile there. I posted a thread about it. I eventually concluded that LII was more likely than EII. I also did the same with ILE, which you thought I was prior to EII.

    This will be the last time I respond to one of your posts. You're going on my ignore list.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Nope. Not at all. For instance, my rasta friend phil bought some beers last night. There was quite a few people over, drinking. But i was very withdrawn from drinking any of his beer. I didnt pay for it. Even after he said not to worry and i could have as many as i liked, i still only had 2 and i felt like i needed to pay a dollar to have my second.
    I can be kind in giving, but i dont deal well with recieving kind gestures. However, i do recieve fair gestures well. If i earned it.
    I don't know if it's type related, but I *totally* relate to this. I don't receive nice gestures well either, including complements. Any time someone complements me on something, I have to deflect the complement to something else, i.e., "You did such a great job in that play!" "Oh, thanks--it's such great material/Bob is such a great director/It was such a great cast to work with, etc." I feel like if someone does me a favor I owe them, and I prefer to not owe people, so I feel a little uncomfortable accepting favors. I think it does help me if they really do want me to do whatever it is. Then I feel like they're not doing me a favor.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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