Supervision Relations: Stories and Experiences

[betterthan]

Experiences? Is it really that bad for the supervisee?

[Beautiful sky]

Yes and No
The supervisors who know themselves well enough not to hurt you, won't; the ones who don't know their sense of self will very much say things and do things to hurt you.

[redbaron]

I think supervisees end up feeling de-valued (by no fault of the supervisor) and like the supervisor thinks they're dumb or something. Which isn't necessarily true but they do appear naive/clueless/incompetent regarding the supervisor's base function. So... it's hard. There have been lots of threads on supervision relations and the best advice is to keep interaction formal and surfacy. As a supervisor, bite your tongue (although even that is hard because when it's your base function that's offending, how do you stifle that??).

Supervision relations can have fun together though. For instance with ESE/IEI, base and creative functions are so there can be a lot of that bouncing around between them. But it gets old after awhile and not everything can be fixed using Fe.

[redbaron]

Yes and No
The supervisors who know themselves well enough not to hurt you, won't; the ones who don't know their sense of self will very much say things and do things to hurt you.

but like I said, you can only hold back your base function for so long before it gets exhausting and annoying. But in a friendship and for short periods of time, yeah, it's fine.

[Blaze]

but like I said, you can only hold back your base function for so long before it gets exhausting and annoying. But in a friendship and for short periods of time, yeah, it's fine.

definitely. i've seen more positive examples of this relationship more recently. best not to do romantic with a supervision partner though. even friendships of this relation get super strained if you over do it.

[Beautiful sky]

I get drained around them in an odd way. I like them a lot and many are so much fun to do activities with; but for every hour spend I need a week or two of rest. I just don't understand what happends.

[redbaron]

definitely. i've seen more positive examples of this relationship more recently. best not to do romantic with a supervision partner though. even friendships of this relation get super strained if you over do it.

I've got a couple of ESE friends I see occasionally and they're really fun. But... yeah.

[pianosinger]

Apparently I am in a supervision ring with my parents. Assuming my mom and dad have both been typed correctly...

My dad is my supervisor, and I am my mom's supervisor.

Actually, I can totally see this as highly probable, in both directions.

Oh, and if my son turns out to be an ESTp, then my mom will be his supervisor, and he would be my dad's supervisor.

[Blaze]

Apparently I am in a supervision ring with my parents. Assuming my mom and dad have both been typed correctly...

My dad is my supervisor, and I am my mom's supervisor.

Actually, I can totally see this as highly probable, in both directions.

Oh, and if my son turns out to be an ESTp, then my mom will be his supervisor, and he would be my dad's supervisor.

wow. that makes my head spin a little. lol

in my family, my father is my supervisor, my brother is my other brother's supervisor. that brother's wife, like my father, is also my supervisor. too much supervision that doesn't really lead anywhere except to hard feelings.

[Aiss]

My sister supervises my mother. I think she's herself supervised by one of our aunts, but I rarely if ever see them together, for unrelated reasons. My mother's friendship with that aunt kind of reminds me with my own friendship with SEI, so super-ego probably makes sense. (Side-note: if she's LIE, I think this type should never, ever focus on their health. Or at least, destruction of the body in the name of health seems like a Si fail to me.)

No supervision for me in close family.

I'd take it over conflict any day.

[Blaze]

I'd take it over conflict any day.

i could def see that

[Creepy-]

My mom (LSE) is the supervisor of me and my dad (SEI) and we are the supervisors of my brother (EIE).

[Marie84]

yeah same, tri-supervision here, me>mother+brother>father. I've never known anyone who came from a complete circle of supervision in their immediate family, but if anyone has that would be interesting to hear about.
I think when the circle isn't complete there's always someone who can at least mediate supervision conflicts...

[Exodus]

I love it when people get angry at me for no reason and then silently disapprove of everything I do...NOT.






Context: I was playing some Smash Bros. with an SLE earlier. He's way better than me, and we were playing on a team together, and he got pissed at me when I kept messing up. For the valuers the game is about having a good time, but for the valuers it's Serious Business. There is a whole competitive scene for Smash and it's largely dominated by types. An ESI we play with also has a history of getting pissed at his teammates. In this case I think the SLE's angriness was more justified (he offered some valid criticism rather than blaming his own mistakes on me), but it still feels subjectively terrible due to supervision.

After I left an ESE we played with texted me:

ESE: Are you smashing?
me: Nope i left
ESE: Aw man come back bro
ESE: Are you coming back?
me: Nah i got sick of [SLE] raging at me. It's cool though.
ESE: I see, yeah me too. I hate it when [SLE] and [ESI] rage at you for their mistakes.
me: Nah it was my fault. But still...lol
ESE: But still, [SLE] and [ESI] raging makes the game less fun for everyone. [Heh, I'm not good at so I would not have realized this]

So yeah. People who think socionics doesn't describe real relationships, take note.

[Suz]

I love it when people get angry at me for no reason and then silently disapprove of everything I do...NOT.

TELLL me about it!! I experienced supervision with a coworker over the past year, and it basically exploded in my face a couple months ago, fallout lasted about 1.5 months, and I still hate/mistrust her (she thinks everything is ok I think). I'd always mistrusted her from the moment i met her, but at least previously I at least sort of liked her as a quirky but friendly person. Not so much anymore.

[Exodus]

TELLL me about it!! I experienced supervision with a coworker over the past year, and it basically exploded in my face a couple months ago, fallout lasted about 1.5 months, and I still hate/mistrust her (she thinks everything is ok I think). I'd always mistrusted her from the moment i met her, but at least previously I at least sort of liked her as a quirky but friendly person. Not so much anymore.

I try to be extra-nice to IEEs for this reason. Luckily supervision doesn't always work out like this.

[crazedrat]

TELLL me about it!! I experienced supervision with a coworker over the past year, and it basically exploded in my face a couple months ago, fallout lasted about 1.5 months, and I still hate/mistrust her (she thinks everything is ok I think). I'd always mistrusted her from the moment i met her, but at least previously I at least sort of liked her as a quirky but friendly person. Not so much anymore.

I try to be extra-nice to IEEs for this reason. Luckily supervision doesn't always work out like this.

pwned

[Singu]

lol, that's not necessarily a difference between Se and Si. Se can also be about having a chill good time, while Si can also be competitive. I'd say the people who RAGE at these things are related to their fear of defeat or "failures", which are oh-so-important, and so humiliating to people who need to be WINNING all the time, like Charlie Sheen. The rage comes from their fear of defeat and humiliation. I'd say this is just a human thing and not really type related.

On a slightly related note... I think Daigo Umehara is an EII.

[Bardia]

I'm sorry man that sucks. I can be competitive in smash but I don't get angry if I don't win and I certainly wouldn't make a big deal about a teammate who may not be as good. That means I just have to do better myself. Practice a bunch and kick the SLEs ass lol.

[Sir Knight]

lol, that's not necessarily a difference between Se and Si. Se can also be about having a chill good time, while Si can also be competitive. I'd say the people who RAGE at these things are related to their fear of defeat or "failures", which are oh-so-important, and so humiliating to people who need to be WINNING all the time, like Charlie Sheen. The rage comes from their fear of defeat and humiliation. I'd say this is just a human thing and not really type related.

On a slightly related note... I think Daigo Umehara is an EII.

I resemble this post...

Shit.

[krieger]

wait till you beat them at games like that. that's when they really get nasty.

[FDG]

wait till you beat them at games like that. that's when they really get nasty.

Yes, exactly, lol. That's also the only way to make them stop: beat them repeteadly. An ESI friend of mine which is a worse cyclist than me doesn't even attend races I partecipate in, because he can't help but being terribly pissed off when he loses. MEH @ this attitude.

[glam]

"just playing for fun" ... eh, competition IS the fun part, lol.

[Exodus]

lol, that's not necessarily a difference between Se and Si. Se can also be about having a chill good time, while Si can also be competitive. I'd say the people who RAGE at these things are related to their fear of defeat or "failures", which are oh-so-important, and so humiliating to people who need to be WINNING all the time, like Charlie Sheen. The rage comes from their fear of defeat and humiliation. I'd say this is just a human thing and not really type related.

-_-

wait till you beat them at games like that. that's when they really get nasty.

Actually, it seems to me that types tend to respect people who are able to demonstrate their prowess. But alas, I am a lowly scrub.

Practice a bunch and kick the SLEs ass lol.

Heh, I would if I cared enough.

[Singu]

Well I hope you don't think that sort of thing is actually , because I'm also a " valuer" and I'm also about having a good time and I don't care much about competition or being competitive. I figure that there will always be someone who is going to be better than me at doing something... so who cares? It's rather unrealistic and irrational to assume that you can be #1 at everything, and then get pissed if you are somehow not #1.

[krieger]

"just playing for fun" ... eh, competition IS the fun part, lol.

i actually agree with this. the thing is, when all that the "competition" comes down to is that one person completely dominates the other in terms of skill, the game turns into a routine of "gee, X won again". That's not competition. Its repetition. When a game is all about exercising the purely logistical process of proving that one person happens to have more innate skill than the other, there is no real competition going on.

[Beautiful sky]

No, super-ego relations suck worse. At least your supervisor, mine anyway, empathizes and doesn't need a whole lot of information to understand me.

[glam]

i actually agree with this. the thing is, when all that the "competition" comes down to is that one person completely dominates the other in terms of skill, the game turns into a routine of "gee, X won again". That's not competition. Its repetition. When a game is all about exercising the purely logistical process of proving that one person happens to have more innate skill than the other, there is no real competition going on.

it's still technically competition in that case, it's just not well-balanced competition. and yeah it's no fun anymore when that happens.

[crazedrat]

Well, if you have to have a supervisor in a work environment.. supervisors make the best ones.

[Exodus]

Well I hope you don't think that sort of thing is actually , because I'm also a " valuer" and I'm also about having a good time and I don't care much about competition or being competitive. I figure that there will always be someone who is going to be better than me at doing something... so who cares? It's rather unrealistic and irrational to assume that you can be #1 at everything, and then get pissed if you are somehow not #1.

Well, YMMV of course. And that's not really what the conflict was about.

I should note there is a slight chance that the SLE is EIE. That's what I had typed him as previously. He is a cool guy in general; it seemed like he was in a bad mood at the time or something.

[Suz]

I try to be extra-nice to IEEs for this reason. Luckily supervision doesn't always work out like this.

Well thanks for the concern and the effort

But one of the things that makes me mistrust LIIs is the "fake nice" act they seem to put on. I can see right through it, and I think it's ridiculous. Makes me feel like they're doing something evil behind the scenes that they're trying really hard to make me not suspect (and this actually unfortunately turned out to be the case with my LII coworker). I nipped it in the bud as soon as I found out.

So if you're not doing any backstabbing things, being "extra nice" is the wrong approach, at least as far as I'm concerned.

[Suz]

pwned

speak for yourself, asshole

[Suz]

Well, if you have to have a supervisor in a work environment.. supervisors make the best ones.

This is SO false.

[Pa3s]

"just playing for fun" ... eh, competition IS the fun part, lol.

You're right, but I think that's not always the case. It can be very exciting to train in order to become better, especially in video game, and then see who's the better player. For instance, I like to play strategy games against my brother in which we try to render the other's tactic useless. (We also had really cool fights in Super Smash Bros.) But some people take those things much too seriously imho. I know that they don't want to spoil the fun for others, but they still 'work' too hard to win, you know what I mean? And if they win all the time, they even start to brag about it. (Like those countless 15-year-olds who pwn the shit out of you in every fps/mmorpg just because they play 24/7) Those people are probably also the ones who are sore losers if the other migth had luck or something like this. I don't exclude cheat usage and hacking in online games for these players. I personally never use cheats, not even against AI-opponents. It totally spoils the fun imho.

In a nutshell: some competition can spice up the game, just don't overplay it and keep it fair.

[Brilliand]

i actually agree with this. the thing is, when all that the "competition" comes down to is that one person completely dominates the other in terms of skill, the game turns into a routine of "gee, X won again". That's not competition. Its repetition. When a game is all about exercising the purely logistical process of proving that one person happens to have more innate skill than the other, there is no real competition going on.

I tend to be more interested in the logistical process than in the competition - though that generally means comparing strategies rather than comparing people.

Frequently the strategy that comes out on top is a simple process of spamming a single move, which often annoys more competitive players. Super Smash Bros. Melee reduced the effectiveness of special moves, which made reactions more important and strategy less important... which makes the game less interesting for me and more interesting for highly competitive players.

[blackburry]

Dunno what Smash is.


Concerning supervision relations:

I've no idea if I've ever been "supervised" by an IEE.

I hear it's considered a humbling experience...My LSE sister has this ability to put me in my place in rather embarassing ways if I get out of line and become too critical/emotional/bitchy.
She knows exactly what to say to cut the deepest. That's kind of humbling to me.

[Suz]

Dunno what Smash is.


Concerning supervision relations:

I've no idea if I've ever been "supervised" by an IEE.

I hear it's considered a humbling experience...My LSE sister has this ability to put me in my place in rather embarassing ways if I get out of line and become too critical/emotional/bitchy.
She knows exactly what to say to cut the deepest. That's kind of humbling to me.

you're ESI? tbh I dont ever recall disliking an ESI, but i haven't known too many, like 1 or 2 and we never really got TOO close. but then again, supervisors usually like their supervisee if i understand correctly, so i dont know what the ESIs think of me.

[Exodus]

Well thanks for the concern and the effort

But one of the things that makes me mistrust LIIs is the "fake nice" act they seem to put on. I can see right through it, and I think it's ridiculous. Makes me feel like they're doing something evil behind the scenes that they're trying really hard to make me not suspect (and this actually unfortunately turned out to be the case with my LII coworker). I nipped it in the bud as soon as I found out.

So if you're not doing any backstabbing things, being "extra nice" is the wrong approach, at least as far as I'm concerned.

What I mean is understanding when not to "apply" in order to avoid making someone uncomfortable. I try to do this for every relationship, unless I find it particularly limiting.

However, I know an SLI who really doesn't like me, and I actually do think my being friendly is a turn off for her because she has learned to mistrust me in the past; however it didn't seem to be a problem before she decided that I was not to be trusted.

[Creepy-male]

Usually there's mutual like and respect. The Supervisee likes how their Supervisor is strong in their PoLR, and so is drawn to the Supervisor as a source of wisdom, knowledge, togetherness, or whatever. OTOH, the Supervisor is drawn to their Supervisee when they use their Demonstrative (which is the Supervisor's dual seeking function).

So, both provide the other with some kind of appreciated information.

Where the asymmetry happens is the Supervisor's information is provided in a way that the Supervisee takes as being "corrected" due to a values clash. The Supervisee can wind up feeling as if they're seen as being faulty or dysfunctional, when the Supervisor doesn't think this at all.

This happened with me and one of my LSE friends. He was quite surprised when I finally said "I know you think I'm emotional and irrational..."

[Suz]

Usually there's mutual like and respect. The Supervisee likes how their Supervisor is strong in their PoLR, and so is drawn to the Supervisor as a source of wisdom, knowledge, togetherness, or whatever. OTOH, the Supervisor is drawn to their Supervisee when they use their Demonstrative (which is the Supervisor's dual seeking function).

So, both provide the other with some kind of appreciated information.

Yeah yeah, this is EXACTLY how things were initially. And then she volunteered herself to help teach me this particular technique i needed to do; and then the problems started because i went to her as to an "expert" but seeking info in a Te format, which she would never really provide. Like she would answer a totally different question that i was not asking, and then she made some weird conclusions about what i must know or not know from the questions she THOUGHT i was asking. So it would degenerate into confusion on both sides, and usually i would start losing my patience with her and provide her with some negative Fe because of my annoyance. And at that point is when i think she started "taking revenge" by spreading untrue things about me behind my back. Or maybe she wanted to do that all along and just wanted to twist what i would say/ask to get fodder against me. This is how she made me feel.

Where the asymmetry happens is the Supervisor's information is provided in a way that the Supervisee takes as being "corrected" due to a values clash. The Supervisee can wind up feeling as if they're seen as being faulty or dysfunctional, when the Supervisor doesn't think this at all.

This happened with me and one of my LSE friends. He was quite surprised when I finally said "I know you think I'm emotional and irrational..."

In my case, she DID think I was faulty (as revealed in my discussion with her later), and was trying to intervene or something. It seemed to be very Ti vs Te- related, so yeah she obviously didn't like my POLR. And to reiterated, it only really all came to play when we started working closely together.