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Thread: Disturbing Intertype Relations

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    Crispy's Avatar
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    Default Disturbing Intertype Relations

    The Beneficiary (Your Dual) thinks of the Benefactor (Your Supervisor) as an interesting and meaningful person...
    Anyone else find this gross?
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    yes.
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    yep...but at least your dual runs interference for you w your sup. helps keep 'em at bay.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Haven't thought about it from this angle before. Not gross, but disturbing!
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    xerx's Avatar
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    Which is why Augusta thought that duality was the engine of social progress. If a supervisor and benefactor dualized, your dual would be too repelled by his supervisor to approach his benefactor. He'd rather stay and dualize with you instead.

    Duality is the most effective relationship at communicating information. Duals can explain anything to each other [not 100% true, but true enough!!]. So the more duality, the more information gets exchanged and more human progress can happen.

    That's the way she saw it anyway.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Benefit relations are overrated. They tend to be deficient and unsatisfying.

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    Crispy's Avatar
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    My beneficiary is pretty fun... sometimes.
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    meh, not really. I'd rather they'd feel more drawn to my supervise than an Fe type, which kind of makes me think they're (the LSE) shallow or/and immature
    EII INFj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    yep...but at least your dual runs interference for you w your sup. helps keep 'em at bay.
    they do? what do they do that "helps keep supervisors at bay?

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    Your dual pleads your case indirectly and gets support and cooperation from your supervisor. At least that's what I thought back then. Now I think the benefactor really wants something from the beneficiary, so the benefactor enlists the support of their dual to try to get it out of you. Either way the dual pair really dominates you.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Um for me in real life it's when I'm in the role of the beneficiary because i often feel criticized by my benefactor and often made to feel as though my decisions are not good enough. I think @Eliza Thomason would agree with this. I also feel awkward around Extinguishing relations. Though I like Quasi-Identicals for being "grown up like" they are terrible to communicate with because they can't sympathize with my compassionate nature. I would say that Supervisior relations lend a lot of support to one another but they are not good to live with. I think Activity relations are good to live with however they make you feel that nothing's ever getting accomplished the way you want them or the way you home them to be. I like Illusionary relations to live with only if they are not romantic relations because like my duals they tend to get you going and doing things that are meaningful even though they create a lot of misunderstandings in communication. They are good for doing things together but I feel that unlike my dual relations I can't quite enjoy the conversations.

    I very much love duality. I love to just listen to the chatter of my duals. The way in which we engage in activities is fun but not exhausting. We get stuff done and can truly truly relax whether that be with making love or kicking back and watching TV.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Um for me in real life it's when I'm in the role of the beneficiary because i often feel criticized by my benefactor and often made to feel as though my decisions are not good enough. I think @Eliza Thomason would agree with this. I also feel awkward around Extinguishing relations. Though I like Quasi-Identicals for being "grown up like" they are terrible to communicate with because they can't sympathize with my compassionate nature. I would say that Supervisior relations lend a lot of support to one another but they are not good to live with. I think Activity relations are good to live with however they make you feel that nothing's ever getting accomplished the way you want them or the way you home them to be.
    I tend to agree with most of what you say here although I might word it a bit differently. I often wonder if I make my beneficiaries feel the same way my benefactors make me feel. I hope not because I do not want to seem critical like that but sometimes I do underestimate them in the same way my benefactors underestimate me.

    As for the bolded part...I know from interactions with my EII sister what you are trying to convey here but like I tell her it isn't true. It's not that I don't empathize with her compassionate nature. I do appreciate that about her. What gets irritating, for me, is when certain, but not all, EII start believing themselves to be better than others in certain areas like kindness and compassion. It bothers me when I think an EII is putting others down for not being compassionate, wise or kind enough.

    It shows a certain lack of understanding in EII, or cutting themselves off from seeing the true nature of others. At least that is how I see it. I do tell my sister when she is looking down on people because she can't see it for herself. She only knows what she is feeling and it comes off as seeing herself as better than others. So that is what has made me take pokes at you in the past but I have tried to see things from your perspective since then and I stop myself from being so reactive toward you now. I just got this feeling that you, like my sister, tend to see yourselves as being better human beings and that can rub me the wrong way. It sort of kicks in my demonstrative Fi when this happens. I am working on it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I tend to agree with most of what you say here although I might word it a bit differently. I often wonder if I make my beneficiaries feel the same way my benefactors make me feel. I hope not because I do not want to seem critical like that but sometimes I do underestimate them in the same way my benefactors underestimate me.

    As for the bolded part...I know from interactions with my EII sister what you are trying to convey here but like I tell her it isn't true. It's not that I don't empathize with her compassionate nature. I do appreciate that about her. What gets irritating, for me, is when certain, but not all, EII start believing themselves to be better than others in certain areas like kindness and compassion. It bothers me when I think an EII is putting others down for not being compassionate, wise or kind enough.

    It shows a certain lack of understanding in EII, or cutting themselves off from seeing the true nature of others. At least that is how I see it. I do tell my sister when she is looking down on people because she can't see it for herself. She only knows what she is feeling and it comes off as seeing herself as better than others. So that is what has made me take pokes at you in the past but I have tried to see things from your perspective since then and I stop myself from being so reactive toward you now. I just got this feeling that you, like my sister, tend to see yourselves as being better human beings and that can rub me the wrong way. It sort of kicks in my demonstrative Fi when this happens. I am working on it though.
    Well, but that's part of the rational judging nature of the Fi function coupled with Aristocratic nature.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Which is why Augusta thought that duality was the engine of social progress. If a supervisor and benefactor dualized, your dual would be too repelled by his supervisor to approach his benefactor. He'd rather stay and dualize with you instead.

    Duality is the most effective relationship at communicating information. Duals can explain anything to each other [not 100% true, but true enough!!]. So the more duality, the more information gets exchanged and more human progress can happen.

    That's the way she saw it anyway.
    Yeah i agree....its not about romance or romantic attraction, but about information exchange.
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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Um for me in real life it's when I'm in the role of the beneficiary because i often feel criticized by my benefactor and often made to feel as though my decisions are not good enough. I think @Eliza Thomason would agree with this..
    [QUOTE=Maritsa;1092110] for sure. My ex was my ESE Benefactor and that was a draining difficulty. I felt invalidated. (but beign a Benefit Relation was not the big problem). Also I got some that from ESE friends and acquaintances in the past. I have one ESE friend I have retained - she just has such a big heart for people that its okay that she doesn't really "get" me - I enjoy her anyway.

    (My Benefactee is ENTj and that's a type I don't have a feel for. I probably have one somewhere in my life but I just cannot think of who.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I also feel awkward around Extinguishing relations.
    .
    For me that's INFp. I particularly appreciate and admire INFp but I often feel they are mistaking my meaning. So I communicate cautiously. Extinguishment is also called Contrary. My ESE ex is in a Contrary Relation. I wonder if its an improvement over being with your Benefactee?


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Though I like Quasi-Identicals for being "grown up like" they are terrible to communicate with because they can't sympathize with my compassionate nature..
    I feel the EIE I know do not relate to my seeking to understand why people think the way they do, what their values are. Also I sometimes feel they think I should be more like them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I would say that Supervisior relations lend a lot of support to one another but they are not good to live with..
    I have an INTj friend (my Supervisor) I really admire and value. ISFj (Supervisee) at times seem too judging to me, and mean in that, but, I tell myself that as their Supervisor I am probably misjudging them, and not appreciating them for who they are. So I appreciate them as a "mystery".

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I think Activity relations are good to live with however they make you feel that nothing's ever getting accomplished the way you want them or the way you home them to be..
    My Activity is LSE; I am thinking of my LSE brother. We accomplish plenty as long as we do things his way. Its just more efficient than trying to explain my way. And he is good at accomplishing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I like Illusionary relations to live with only if they are not romantic relations because like my duals they tend to get you going and doing things that are meaningful even though they create a lot of misunderstandings in communication. They are good for doing things together but I feel that unlike my dual relations I can't quite enjoy the conversations.
    For me, the easy-to-talk-to ILEs. I know two ESEs in longtime Conflict marriages with ILEs.. they make it work, but its a rough road at times...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I very much love duality. I love to just listen to the chatter of my duals. The way in which we engage in activities is fun but not exhausting. We get stuff done and can truly truly relax whether that be with making love or kicking back and watching TV.
    Yes!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


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    .
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    .


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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I tend to agree with most of what you say here although I might word it a bit differently. I often wonder if I make my beneficiaries feel the same way my benefactors make me feel. I hope not because I do not want to seem critical like that but sometimes I do underestimate them in the same way my benefactors underestimate me.

    As for the bolded part...I know from interactions with my EII sister what you are trying to convey here but like I tell her it isn't true. It's not that I don't empathize with her compassionate nature. I do appreciate that about her. What gets irritating, for me, is when certain, but not all, EII start believing themselves to be better than others in certain areas like kindness and compassion. It bothers me when I think an EII is putting others down for not being compassionate, wise or kind enough.

    It shows a certain lack of understanding in EII, or cutting themselves off from seeing the true nature of others. At least that is how I see it. I do tell my sister when she is looking down on people because she can't see it for herself. She only knows what she is feeling and it comes off as seeing herself as better than others. So that is what has made me take pokes at you in the past but I have tried to see things from your perspective since then and I stop myself from being so reactive toward you now. I just got this feeling that you, like my sister, tend to see yourselves as being better human beings and that can rub me the wrong way. It sort of kicks in my demonstrative Fi when this happens. I am working on it though.
    I see you having these issues with Maritsa sometimes and I always feel for you both. My EII sis-in-law can come across this way but the fact is, she really does have a knack for compassion, seeing subtle compassionate things that most other people don't. Particularly with her own family (and sometimes she seems blind to persons who are not in her circle.. perhaps because she has to preserve herself -- if she gave everyone the depth of compassion she shows her inner circle, it woudl be too much for any person). Yes, it seems proud to say, "I am compassionate", however, its true, and EII is just being matter-of-fact. EII, being a judging type, is sure on that fact, as, J's are sure on their facts... and J's "sureness" can just seem harsh to us P's...
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I see you having these issues with Maritsa sometimes and I always feel for you both. My EII sis-in-law can come across this way but the fact is, she really does have a knack for compassion, seeing subtle compassionate things that most other people don't. Particularly with her own family (and sometimes she seems blind to persons who are not in her circle.. perhaps because she has to preserve herself -- if she gave everyone the depth of compassion she shows her inner circle, it woudl be too much for any person). Yes, it seems proud to say, "I am compassionate", however, its true, and EII is just being matter-of-fact. EII, being a judging type, is sure on that fact, as, J's are sure on their facts... and J's "sureness" can just seem harsh to us P's...
    Yes

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I see you having these issues with Maritsa sometimes and I always feel for you both. My EII sis-in-law can come across this way but the fact is, she really does have a knack for compassion, seeing subtle compassionate things that most other people don't. Particularly with her own family (and sometimes she seems blind to persons who are not in her circle.. perhaps because she has to preserve herself -- if she gave everyone the depth of compassion she shows her inner circle, it woudl be too much for any person). Yes, it seems proud to say, "I am compassionate", however, its true, and EII is just being matter-of-fact. EII, being a judging type, is sure on that fact, as, J's are sure on their facts... and J's "sureness" can just seem harsh to us P's...
    This is where my sister and I have clashed a lot in the past. She will get very defensive when I point out where she is lacking compassion or giving too much to one family member, who does not particularly deserve it, while neglecting those who do but later, in typical "her fashion", she comes to me and thanks me for pointing it out. It could take months for her to come to the same conclusion I already had about someone. She is way more compassionate to her inner circle than toward the masses. It is kind of sad that we share so many beliefs yet conflict over how they are expressed.

    I express far fewer verbal character judgments on people than she does. I prefer to let people reveal themselves instead of risking being wrong about them and stating something, I feel, that may be untrue. Feelings are not always reliable when judging character. Intuition is often more accurate and sometimes it is hard to distinguish between real intuition and personal feelings.

    I have my inner circle as well but I am open to bringing people I vibe with in and letting people I no longer vibe with go. Her group seems more long term and static where mine is more fluid. She has kept the same group of friends for years and some used to be my friends. Now I no longer want contact and she would like me to maintain those ties. I still care about the people but I don't want to interact with them anymore. I would still help them out if there was something I could do for them, if asked.

    My sister and I walk similar yet separate spiritual paths. We share beliefs, so we run parallel to each other, but choose different ways to explore them and interpret them. She thinks I am too forgiving of people who don't deserve it. Her automatic is to not trust someone until they give her a reason to so she is way more suspicious of motives than I am. It also takes her a long time to forgive even when someone shows true remorse for harming her or our family. Ironically she believes in the teachings of Jesus but finds them hard to live up to but keeps on trying. I find her ways very contradictory at times but I am also a mass of contradictions, so... Anyway, I prefer to follow the ways of Lao Tzu. Similar but different. hahah

    Hey and none of the EII I know are Mother Teresa and I don't expect them to be.

    Edit: To clarify, I am not necessarily too forgiving. I just let it go and move on. She will hold on to her feelings much longer. My feelings are not as tightly wound. We can both be very stubborn though.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    It could take months for her to come to the same conclusion I already had about someone. She is way more compassionate to her inner circle than toward the masses.
    IDK about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Her automatic is to not trust someone until they give her a reason to so she is way more suspicious of motives than I am.
    IDK about this either. These two things are not indicative of Fi plus. I would look into that a little more.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    IDK about this.

    IDK about this either. These two things are not indicative of Fi plus. I would look into that a little more.
    Like I said contradictions and not all EII are the same. Life circumstances help shape us. She has been through a lot more in ten years than most people can handle in a lifetime. She has more legit reasons to be suspicious of people than most. I am not going to share here what they are.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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