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    El Presidente de Mi Cabeza GallopingQwerty's Avatar
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    Default Typed in error?

    Initially the test sites I found (and a couple of good friends who have been studying socionics for years) placed me squarely in the IEE camp, and I was fine with that.

    I found a couple of other tests today, though, that place me as perhaps IEE, perhaps ESE... and the majority of both descriptions fit me. But they're not even in the same quadrant so.. huh?

    Thoughts? Suggestions on how to figure out my "real" type?
    "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." Mark Twain

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    I am definitely a 7, and most likely an IEE. Stay tuned for further updates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GallopingQwerty View Post
    Initially the test sites I found (and a couple of good friends who have been studying socionics for years) placed me squarely in the IEE camp, and I was fine with that.

    I found a couple of other tests today, though, that place me as perhaps IEE, perhaps ESE... and the majority of both descriptions fit me. But they're not even in the same quadrant so.. huh?

    Thoughts? Suggestions on how to figure out my "real" type?
    What set of quadra values do you most resonate with? That can sometimes be helpful. If you're IEE you'll probably prefer delta; if you're ESE you'll probably prefer alpha.

    Here's some information on quadras:

    Socionics :: Quadras

    Quadra - Wikisocion


    Another approach to take is to think of the people you get along best and those you get along worst with. What types are they? Then think about the type of relation you have with that person. Is it a dual relation? Conflict? Supervision? etc. Of course this method only works if you're sure of the other person's type.

    Here's some information on relations in socionics:

    Socionics :: Intertype Relations

    Intertype relations - Wikisocion
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I'd say give it time. Allow Socionics to consume your mind.

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    El Presidente de Mi Cabeza GallopingQwerty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    What set of quadra values do you most resonate with? That can sometimes be helpful. If you're IEE you'll probably prefer delta; if you're ESE you'll probably prefer alpha.

    Here's some information on quadras:

    Socionics :: Quadras

    Quadra - Wikisocion
    According to the definitions on those pages, I'm... still both, with no super strong pull of one over the other. Quite a few of them work together in my mind.

    For example, from Delta: "The Delta Quadra doesn't appreciate high ideals or abstractions that don't relate well to real life. Types from the Delta Quadra value pragmatism, hard work, beautifully functional items, and earthy humor and enjoy "productive" relationships where people do projects together. "

    And from Alpha: "The Alpha Quadra is especially sensitive to and critical of mercantilistic views, ostentatious displays of wealth and status symbols, rude and aggressive behavior, moral criticism, and people who suggest they are wasting their time on unproductive things."

    Both of these are true for me at the same time. For example: one of my favourite jobs has been working as a theatre technician, which is a pragmatic job where you do something productive with a small group of people... in order to be part of the larger picture of a full scale artistic endeavor. And I always gain just as great a pleasure from watching the completed show as I do being part of its creation.

    And from Delta: "Types of this quadra enjoy discussing people, internal motivation, and self-development. They are usually emotionally subdued and like to discuss topics seriously with the intention of implementing their conclusions."

    From Alpha: "Types from the Alpha Quadra enjoy freely exchanging new ideas and theories as a form of intellectual leisure. They like to systematize knowledge and create new categories and speculative hypotheses without necessarily intending to see their theories tested or implemented."

    I do both, on a regular basis. I LOVE spending hours at parties working random ideas back and forth with no real plan of action... just as much as I love latching on to one or two with the right people, and going off to the side to work out how we're going to implement it from start to finish. I am equally comfortable discussing random ideas with no future as I am the ones that will actually happen.

    And I am also equally capable of discussing ideas with subdued emotion as I am with strong emotion, although I do lean a bit more toward emotion on that particular point.

    Feh...
    "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." Mark Twain

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    I am definitely a 7, and most likely an IEE. Stay tuned for further updates.

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    El Presidente de Mi Cabeza GallopingQwerty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    You are not an IEE, try Alpha. I think ESE is your type and you may change that in your signature as far as possible.
    I would, except that I fit just about everything I've ever read about IEE to the letter.

    Either there are other folks that feel stuck between two very different types also, or maybe these types aren't as clearly set apart as some might think. I can't be the only one out there with this issue.
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    I am definitely a 7, and most likely an IEE. Stay tuned for further updates.

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    You seem ENFp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GallopingQwerty View Post
    I would, except that I fit just about everything I've ever read about IEE to the letter.
    If everything you read about IEE fits so well, what's the problem? Does ESE fit better, or do you suspect what you're reading in IEE description could be easily molded to fit almost anyone, or do you think you're like that, but not necessarily much more so than most people?

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    Stop doubting. Embrace the tranquilty of mind. You'll be happier.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    It seems you are wondering if you are N or S, or J and P.

    My advice would be to have a look at:

    dichotomies
    temperaments
    clubs.

    Dichotomies - here's a reasonable enough test with reasonable 'beginner' explanations Socionics Type Assistant TURBO

    temperaments - you are sure you are extravert, so either EP or EJ. EP and EJ are both energetic next to introverts. EP types tend to have fluctuating energy levels - they can be really engaged in something then slow down the speed they are doing it then get a second wind and pick it back up again. EJ types tend to have steady uniform energy levels neither really going up or down. Temperament - Wikisocion

    clubs - may help you, they tend to describe particular interests of groups, like NF SF NT ST Club - Wikisocion You'll probably want to look at Humanitarians (NF) and Socials (SF).

    Humanitarians

    When a group consists of members of this club, but without either of the two quadras having greater weight, its interactions are likely to be formed around common spiritual, philosophical, artistic, literary or humanitarian interests. Very typical and common examples of such clubs are religious discussion groups, humanitarian and charity organizations such as NGOs, groups of literary and musical activities.
    This kind of group behavior, though, in terms of seeing a club as any kind of unit, is visible only as long as the group is held together by, and focuses on, discussions and activities of their common interests. Longer and deeper interactions make such a club visibly "split" into the two quadras, Beta and Delta.
    I think i've read you say on the forums that you've opened up some non profit charity shop, you shaved your hair for cancer, and I think you've indicated some artisic type works (theatre or something). Anyway I get the impression that Humanitarian club works for you pretty good.

    Re quadras: I tend to find that quadra explanations aren't really that great, and there can be a big variation in accuracy of the description and also within the quadra, between the types, so I wouldn't recommend them, personally i'd just gather your own information on them from no doubt your numerous experiences with different people.

    Functions can be confusing because there's so many different descriptions for them, written by people of different types themselves and they can therefore put their own slant on it. For instance you might have noticed that people still disagree on function defintions and also disagree with how functions manifest in types on the forums, so it can be a bit of a minefield best looked at with that perspective in mind to begin with - and even with a bit of perspective always, I dare say.

    Also, a lot of the information available like on forums or wiki can be confusing or perhaps unintentionally mis-leading.

    ------------------------------

    In regards to yourself, I think that Ne dominant seems more likely. I got this impression from our somewhat lengthy chat we had, and somethings in particular jumped to me out as I recall which seemed rather fitting with the Ne dominant types. Also, reading through your posts, it seems you are engaged in quite a few different things at the one time, and can chop and change them, which tends to be most common in Ne dominants than other dominant functions.

    Something you said in particular - it was something like you are tying together key concepts rather than looking at the individual aspects, details, sounds to me more like ENFp than ESFj approach, ie Ne in particular.

    Also, that you've mentioned you know some people from here IRL, i'm presuming they've typed you as IEE and it's reasonable to assume they'd have good reasons for that from knowing you IRL.

    Re the type descriptions - some of them are better than others, for the better ones, it can maybe help to look at the whole of what it is trying to say rather than just little specifics. Also the tests - tests are pretty much only useful when starting off, the more we sit them the more aware we become of the type of questions they ask and so it can start to produce less accurate results. Some people sit a test and the first one they sit is bang on with their type, or really close, like only one dichotomy away.

    Going back to the type descriptions, there's Rick De Longs, afaik IEE's find his IEE description quite good Socionic Types There's also other descriptions out there of IEE and ESE that are quite good that maybe you could look at later if you're not bored enough.

    Also, it's not that uncommon ime for Ne dominants to be a 7 in enneagram.

    -----------------------------------

    Anyway, good luck finding your type, hope you come to conclusion an all, or maybe it is just fun to leave things open ...

    Well, I could write more but I hope some of this helps. I think i've written enough now before I look like a total nerd, it just seemed this post grew longer than anticipated, heh

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    Keep reading up and don't assume what your type is this early.

    Are you a mom? Moms are overplaced as ESE. Half the world thinks their mom is ESE, and it's just statistically unlikely. The descriptions emphasize taking care of others, obviously, but moms have to do that regardless of what type we are.

    I think you could be either one, and you should just read up and relax about it for now, and if you're open minded as you read and learn, you'll figure out your type soon enough. The people who have the most trouble are those who are absolutely sure of their types right from the beginning, because not only might they be wrong, but their whole understanding of Socionics might get skewed to force their square peg selves into the round hole type they think they are.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    You are not an IEE, try Alpha. I think ESE is your type and you may change that in your signature as far as possible.
    Try looking at her writing..

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Humanitarians
    I think i've read you say on the forums that you've opened up some non profit charity shop, you shaved your hair for cancer, and I think you've indicated some artisic type works (theatre or something). Anyway I get the impression that Humanitarian club works for you pretty good.
    And this is supposed to indicated delta?

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Stop doubting. Embrace the tranquilty of mind. You'll be happier.
    OHMMMMM
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 05-02-2010 at 10:23 PM.

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    El Presidente de Mi Cabeza GallopingQwerty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Are you a mom? Moms are overplaced as ESE. Half the world thinks their mom is ESE, and it's just statistically unlikely. The descriptions emphasize taking care of others, obviously, but moms have to do that regardless of what type we are.
    Ah, that actually makes sense. Most of the ESE descriptions that I readily identify with are about things that moms would be concerned with (I foster but it still counts right?) too.

    For example, these quotes from ESE - WSWiki really fit me:

    "They are often focused on whether others around them are having fun, are emotionally relaxed or engaged, or whether everyone around them is getting along or whether the needs of others are met, and they are often inclined to take decisive action to ensure that there exists a positive emotional mood or that others are comfortable and well taken care of."

    "ESEs may typically express an upbeat, cheerful demeanor and attempt to raise the spirits of others around them. They may expressively and vivaciously impose their emotional state onto others, expecting others to absorb and feel to the nature of the sentiments they display. They often enjoy bringing others out of their shells and getting those around them into the mood of the situation."

    "As a part of their effort to be accommodating, they tend to be inclined to read into the context of their interaction with others and to try to discern or predict others' intentions and motivations, and to use this information to help meet others' needs or desires; in some cases this can lead to unwanted assistance."

    There are others, but my point here is that all of these things can also be pieces of a Caretaker mentality, which a foster mom would definitely have/need to be successful.

    Cyclops, you've said so much here! I promise that I am looking into all of it, but I am just going to address a couple of pieces here until I get a chance to research more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    temperaments - you are sure you are extravert, so either EP or EJ. EP and EJ are both energetic next to introverts. EP types tend to have fluctuating energy levels - they can be really engaged in something then slow down the speed they are doing it then get a second wind and pick it back up again. EJ types tend to have steady uniform energy levels neither really going up or down. Temperament - Wikisocion
    Well, here's the thing... on MBTI, the only other type I ever got was ENFJ, and that was only maybe a fifth of the time: otherwise it was ENFP all the way. So apparently the only factor that vacillates for me is P and J, and they are very close.

    And what you've said here about energy levels... Sometimes the EJ description holds true, especially when I'm focused on an all-day activity that holds my interest and requires a steady level of work. But most days I am all over the place, energy picking up and slowing down depending on what's happening next: how excited am I to do it? Is it something I'm good at? Are there other people involved? Will there be positive or negative results? Bounce, bounce, bounce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    clubs - may help you, they tend to describe particular interests of groups, like NF SF NT ST Club - Wikisocion You'll probably want to look at Humanitarians (NF) and Socials (SF).
    After reading both descriptions, I'd have to say... I do both. Really. Yes I've definitely talked a lot about the Humanitarian side of things here so far, but that's mostly because I figured people would get really bored by my excitement over permaculture gardening, finding an awesome chipotle sweet potato recipe, and agonizing over a scrapbooking quandary. Although I'm sure people are just as bored with the stuff I *have* said, so I guess it doesn't matter.

    If I had to pick only one I probably would lean more toward Humanitarian, simply because I think it matters more on a daily basis to more people than just myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    In regards to yourself, I think that Ne dominant seems more likely. I got this impression from our somewhat lengthy chat we had, and somethings in particular jumped to me out as I recall which seemed rather fitting with the Ne dominant types. Also, reading through your posts, it seems you are engaged in quite a few different things at the one time, and can chop and change them, which tends to be most common in Ne dominants than other dominant functions.

    Something you said in particular - it was something like you are tying together key concepts rather than looking at the individual aspects, details, sounds to me more like ENFp than ESFj approach, ie Ne in particular.
    Really? Hmm, I'll have to hunt down further descriptions of Ne then... the initial Fi description I found was so accurate, but it was also short. Any recommendations on where to look?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Also, that you've mentioned you know some people from here IRL, i'm presuming they've typed you as IEE and it's reasonable to assume they'd have good reasons for that from knowing you IRL.
    This is true, though I'm always a little bit wary of friends and family typing me for these things because I tend to get idealized... still not sure why this happens. I guess I am lucky to have so many people close to me that are willing to completely overlook (or give little importance to) my flaws/darker side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Going back to the type descriptions, there's Rick De Longs, afaik IEE's find his IEE description quite good Socionic Types There's also other descriptions out there of IEE and ESE that are quite good that maybe you could look at later if you're not bored enough.
    Ahh, I see! In this description of ESE, this is absolutely NOT true: "In their pursuit of fun-oriented and stimulating social interactions, ESEs typically neglect to structure their own thought processes and views in a way that would help them know exactly what they think and why."

    I always know what I'm thinking and why I'm thinking it. And if I'm ever in doubt, I stop and figure it out because to me there's not much point in rushing ahead if I don't have any idea why I'm rushing in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Also, it's not that uncommon ime for Ne dominants to be a 7 in enneagram.
    Yeah the tests I took had me strongly as a 7 (and occasionally if I take the test when having a frustrating day, a 1), but I'm not clear on the wing stuff that people talk about sometimes. I'm still searching for a test site that explains it better, and maybe gives me a result with the word "wing" in it instead of just a solid solitary number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Well, I could write more but I hope some of this helps. I think i've written enough now before I look like a total nerd, it just seemed this post grew longer than anticipated, heh
    That's fine, nerds are my favourite people! Well ok most people are my favourite people, but I especially appreciate nerdiness.
    "Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." Mark Twain

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    I am definitely a 7, and most likely an IEE. Stay tuned for further updates.

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    El Presidente de Mi Cabeza GallopingQwerty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Oh, sorry... I was looking at her eyes, my mistake. These nasty habits...
    Hah! I'll try batting my eyelashes next time I post, just for you.

    *batbatbat*
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    I am definitely a 7, and most likely an IEE. Stay tuned for further updates.

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    First of all, I would say to stay way from these broad type descriptinons. They are pretty much laced with an MBTI outlook on how to identify types, which is why you are probably having some trouble understanding what your type is. As an NeFi, I agreed with some of your observations in your comparison of the two descriptions, there were stuff in the NeFi/Delta that didn't sound like me at all and there are some things in FeSi/Alpha that do. It's because they are focused on personality traits and not your thought process. Basically, you relate to all the EXFX information in the two descriptions in an MBTI manner, and unfortunately, there isn't much to prevent you from this.

    My advise is to try putting off guessing your own or other's types until you have a strong grasp on what every Information Element (IE) and function placement is about. Obviously you will learn more as you stick around, so you won't have the deepest understanding just in a couple of hours, but it'll put you on the right track. So, for example, if I asked you how you observe leading or creative is like in a person, you should be able to explain it enough without looking at type descriptions or how they fit into them. Once you understand what every IE is like in every position, start from there to ascertain your's and others' types. You should be able to observe leading or creative within yourself and that will help you with your type.

    This is heavily my opinion which may or may not be in conflict with the majority here: Dichotomies, groups of any sort (clubs, temperaments, etc) are shorthand that is useful for beginners that are trying to swallow Socionics as a whole and to get a feel of all the types and how they are all related, but is a bad habit to keep on to. They take the parts of types and lose the context, and tend to rely on topical personality traits that are not mandatory for a type. So don't get too caught up in these type descriptions, as they are more likely to confuse you than help you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GallopingQwerty View Post
    I do both, on a regular basis. I LOVE spending hours at parties working random ideas back and forth with no real plan of action... just as much as I love latching on to one or two with the right people, and going off to the side to work out how we're going to implement it from start to finish. I am equally comfortable discussing random ideas with no future as I am the ones that will actually happen.
    valuing then - it's probably one of your main values (base or suggestive function).

    Definitely learning what the information elements and functions are all about is many times more valuable than reading descriptions. If you understand that then you can write descriptions yourself.

  20. #20
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    It is the usual that people are content with their types for years and then when they come here they start jumping all over the shop.

    qwerters, I'd recommend some specific further reading for the functions, but I don't feel that public typing threads are the best place for such discussions over all, people usually end up fighting over what everyone else has said and i've frankly got too much other things going on to bother with debates I and people have had many times over that never become satiated in a general correct consensus.

    So, eh, yeah, just take time and see how you get on. Don't expect to learn it overnight, and i'd say - don't let yourself be consumed or governed by all this too much - just remember it's only a theory really, and first and foremost you are a person.

    I will say also though - a lot of what you learn will probably be useless outwith a theoritical context, you've survived long enough dealing with yourself and others and your life I assume in the context of what you've always typed yourself. I simply don't expect to socionics provide enough answers to issues of psychology any more so than the stage you are probably at, but then, it does have some basic uses (whether they are useful to you or not I dunno).

    I suppose i'd ask, what do you think you are looking for from socionics, anything in particular? Maybe knowing what you're looking for I can give you some answers as to the usefulness of it in the cases.

    Oh, and as something Rick said to me before, what I asked him something along the lines of what is the point of internet socionics, he replied, "a mental exercise". Which is kinda true, heh.

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