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Thread: Relationship of Ne to Ti: Classical Intuition Explained

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    Default Relationship of Ne to Ti: Classical Intuition Explained

    The LII creative subtype is always using Ne to broaden Ti. Ti observes a situation it hasn't seen before, and asks what it's structural makeup could be. Ne considers a million (or at least a dozen) possible forms of the structure encountered, and how it could fit into the knowledge base observed. What Ne does, is look for a neural match between the data encountered, and the Ne conceived. There is a "subworld" beneath interpretation, a truth that exists beyond context. We can say it is true because all information apprehended is reckoned by the brain through the brain, therefore the neural configuration of the information inside the brain is its true form. Ne sees this truth very easily -- it can strip all context away and insert a body of information into a completely different possible context, and thus interpret it differently. What Ne tries to do, is find a match between a body of context independent ideas with another such body. Then it tries to use the match as a guide by which to integrate information and expand the smaller body, using neural truth to anchor conceptual truth. It is weaker Ne relying on strong Ne, to create Ti. This observance of a weaker Ne concept in the context of a stronger Ne concept is the meaning of intuition as it is classically described, the fount of insight.

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    Ne is ideas, novel ideas, possiblities and connections of big pictures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    As far as I can tell, your concept of "Ne" is pretty accurate, but for Ni, at least in the "normal" Socionics.
    It's common for people to mistake the experience and behavior associated with having a given function in the first position, with a function itself.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    It's common for people to mistake the experience and behavior associated with having a given function in the first position, with a function itself.
    In my opinion, we should equate the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    I was not talking about a behavior, but function and, if you want, an information element. How comes that Ne is perceiving one million shapes and not Ni - or those alternative interpretations you're talking about?

    You're talking exactly about an Introverted function - "the truth beyond the context". Or should one explain what the difference between E and I is (context/general, objects/fields, instance/template, quiddity/haecceity)?
    I was not talking about a function. I was talking about the relationship between two different functions. Moreover, I was talking about the relation between a weaker manifestation of a function to a strong manifestation. 4D Ne is a massive ideological context, while 3D Ne sees something more independent that can be moved between contexts. Like I said, it sees the true representation of an idea, which can be moved about devoid of empirical meaning.

    Consider a poem: it is made written formless, and devoid of context. Depending on how you see it, it could mean any number of things because it empirical definition. You must assert its meaning for yourself, by placing it in a definite context. Generally poems are localizable to the era in which they are written, or a situation... but what if the poem was written to reflect an unreal situation? Riddles require Ne more than they do Ni.

    3D Ne is quite unfocused -- it needs 4D Ne as an anchor because otherwise it cannot grasp the definite. But it can be choosy of its anchors as well, and in this way it can see through to the core of an idea and even what seemingly unrelated ideas have in common. It's just like how ILEs see principles everywhere, but without an existing situation to attach them to they just seem like universal precepts, truisms of thought itself.

    It would seem to me that 4D functions are necessary to understand context, and 3D functions are necessary to understand general truths and precepts. Quadra progression is important: without input from one's mirror, it is impossible to use a 3D function to produce 4D content, only 3D content. (e.g. 3D Ne produces 3D Ti, not 4D Ti). You need a lace of 4D context to use a 3D function to produce 4D content, because 4D content is contextual.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 05-04-2010 at 09:15 PM.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    3D Ne is quite unfocused -- it needs 4D Ne as an anchor because otherwise it cannot grasp the definite.
    If we're talking about the two types' comprehension of concepts, the INTjs' version of it is infinitely more focussed than the ENTps'.

    ENTps don't even believe in pinning down a concept and focussing on it in isolation. They see understanding as a fluid, unstable process.

    Your description is diametrically opposed to the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    In my opinion, we should equate the two.
    We should not, because the function and the behavior are different.

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    There is no "function". I only ever use the term because it is a convention around here and it's hard to find a better term for the eight symbols. Socionics as a whole describes a single function of the brain. The type determines the parameters of this function.

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    The functions are apparently the mechanism of long-lasting long term potentiation encoding, the means by which new concepts are formulated.

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