Gun Control Wisdom
From our good friend Toby Ziegler.
"... if you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, German, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year. They had 112. You think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?"
I wonder how many of those gun deaths were self-defense?
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
In my opinion, guns are irrelevent to crime. There's always been crime throughout history, sometimes at greater levels than our culture, and sometimes at lesser levels. The real factor behind crime levels (including murder) is the level of order present in a society, and how effectively that order is maintained (whether by law enforcement, social norms, etc.).
All guns do is remove brute force from the equation, by making killing a person a matter of point-and-click, thereby removing the advantages that strong men once had over weaker men. Whether or not crimes are committed is still a matter of whether any negative consequences of committing the crime are immediate, unpleasant, and inescapable, or distant, mild, and easily avoidable.
Quaero Veritas.
Most gun deaths in the US are suicides.
-insert obligatory "correlation does not imply causation" line here-
whatever, Americans just suck at dodging bullets.
asd
Or we aim better.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Actually, I think Americans /are/ more homicidal by nature.
Originally Posted by MatthewZ
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
How many of those deaths were in inner cities and committed with illegal guns? America has a huge problem with inner city gang violence, but the vast majority of the rest of the country is very safe. Towns with guns typically have very low crime rates.
Also, why the fuck would you ever let your government disarm you? Are you fucking insane?
ALSO, I don't believe those numbers. Especially not in Switzerland, where a huge number of people own assault rifles.
ALSO, do you grasp how stupid it is to include deaths committed with illegal guns in the numbers of American gun deaths? If it's illegal, that means that banning guns won't solve the fucking problem, since the GUN WAS PURCHASED ILLEGALLY i.e. brought into the country by smugglers and sold on the black market. Why do people not INSTANTLY see this? Why do I have to explain it EVERY FUCKING TIME?
(Not calling you stupid, btw. I just get pissed off by hearing this same argument over and over)
Last edited by discojoe; 04-26-2010 at 03:07 PM.
lol, the title should read "Biased Gun Control Wisdom." There will always be people for and against gun ownership... The argument will always be able to be spun how each side wants it to be... bleh.
Removed at User Request
I'm actually getting a concealed carry permit in a couple of months.
Removed at User Request
Florida actually has pretty lenient gun laws regarding self defense. I doubt anything I do will result in my being arrested.
In any case, stfu with your socialistic nonsense, as if there is any rational wisdom in giving total power to the state.
"How to Ruin an Economy and Turn it into a Police State," by the Alpha Quadra.
I've carried for nearly 8 years now and nobody I know has ever seen my firearm other than when I'm at home and put it away, or I've actually been out shooting. This is pretty much the case with 99.9% of the people who have concealed weapons permits. It's only the idiots who don't know shit about firearms and think it's cool to be "strapped" who end up doing stupid or illegal shit most of the time.
*not all Alphas fwiw."How to Ruin an Economy and Turn it into a Police State," by the Alpha Quadra.
a/k/a Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto.
Last I checked Mao, Lenin, Stalin, ****** and Caesar Augustus weren't Alphas and Adam Smith was certainly ILE.
Missed ****** is ENTp type...
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-28-2010 at 03:39 AM.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Marx was, though. And I've heard ENFj for ****** and Stalin before. Also, Adam Smith was a plagiarist and I don't care for anything that illegitimate "father" has to say. Richard Cantillon is a much more original author of the same era, IMHO, and a whole generation sooner than Smith.
What are you getting at? My point was that the Alpha quadra (all quadras if you care to generalize) isn't exclusively tied to one particular ideology.
I agree, and I'm sure discojoe would, too. I took his post as a joke. On the other hand, if we did care to generalize, one could say that collectivism seems to appeal to Alphas and Deltas whereas individualism would appeal more to the remainder.
You're free to believe that I'm either lying, not self aware or do not understand the nature of collectivism, but I personally despise any form of collectivism, forced or otherwise. So I disagree with your premise.
I believe you. It was never my premise that it's a rule for X type to adhere to Y philosophy, I thought we were speaking in generalities.
Ok.
Wasn't Thomas Jefferson like, the quintessential LII? Alpha NTs can reason themselves into almost any position.
Intuitively, though, I would say that collectivism = aristocractic (Beta/Delta), and individualism = democratic (Alpha/Gamma).
Quaero Veritas.
Yeah, that makes more sense.
I would say it's something like this:
Alpha = Libertarian (Government should be limited, so I can do as I please. Social issues are my personal business.)
Beta = Statist (Government should be powerful, to create an ideal society for our people. Social issues should be determined by the group.)
Gamma = Capitalist (Government should be powerful, to promote a free market where I can succeed. Social issues are my personal business.)
Delta = Populist (Government should be limited, so our people can do as we please. Social issues should be determined by the group.)
[Edit: of course, not everyone in a quadra will have these beliefs, since political beliefs are strongly influenced by upbringing and culture, but quadra members should display at least some leanings or tendencies toward these positions.]
Last edited by Krig the Viking; 04-28-2010 at 05:28 AM.
Quaero Veritas.
I'm a libertarian individualist. Collectivism is a prime cause of many evils throughout human history.
I tend to think of the various political tendencies as survival strategies for different political situations. Alpha Libertarian government is great during peacetimes, but war necessitates strong central planning and national unity, i.e., Beta Statism. Similarly, Gamma Big-Business Capitalism is great for when the nation is rich, but Delta Populist strategies become more necessary in times when survival is in question.
Interestingly, the initial political division in America seems to have been quite clearly between Alpha Libertarians (the Jeffersonians) and Gamma Business Capitalists (the Hamiltonians), having just fought a major Democrat vs. Aristocrat war (literally).
Quaero Veritas.
Capitalism is even better for a poor nation than a rich nation.
My thinking on this is heavily influenced by Walter Russel Meade's political theory (link).
In my opinion:
Jeffersonian = Alpha
Wilsonian = Beta
Hamiltonian = Gamma
Jacksonian = Delta
Quaero Veritas.
Of the several different things you could be trying to say with that vomiting icon, I am incapable of determining which one you intend.
Quaero Veritas.
Thats actually a very interesting argument, but to prove anything substantial you'de have to look at the breakdown, and explore the reasons why in more depth.
Honestly I don't think gun control laws are responsible for increased gun related deaths, nor do I think Americans are more homicidal (maybe a little bit but not to that extreme).
I think the true cause for this statistic is probably something else.
Mostly to that arbitrary distinction of socio-political philosophies, and especially as they are limited to US politics. But to each their own. . .Of the several different things you could be trying to say with that vomiting icon, I am incapable of determining which one you intend.
It's certainly a distinction of socio-political philosophies, but what makes you say it's an arbitrary one?
Quaero Veritas.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
