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Thread: Unwanted Advice

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    Creepy-cinq

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    What type is most likely to impulsively offer advice to anyone, even when it's clear the advice is unwanted? What type is most likely to react strongly to unwanted advice?

    Is it type related?

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    I associate it with Ni, but I'm not sure if that's fair. My parents are both awful about this, and they're EIE and LIE, but it's probably more about them being my parents than them being Ni types. Still, I've seen them do it to other people as well. I don't know.

    Obviously I am back and forth about this.
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    If I hear someone talking and is not making any sense; I will offer my advice. I don't necessarily need to be asked for it. I do sometimes ask if the person would like my advice.

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    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I associate it with Ni, but I'm not sure if that's fair. My parents are both awful about this, and they're EIE and LIE, but it's probably more about them being my parents than them being Ni types. Still, I've seen them do it to other people as well. I don't know.

    Obviously I am back and forth about this.
    I know what you mean about parents. My SEI mother was quite good about keep her opinions to herself and not pester. My father, on the other hand (ENTj i believe) was a tyrant. I wouldn't classify it as advice, more like dictatorship.

    As a parent myself, I give my children advice; sometimes it's not what they want to hear, but, must be said. For example, in preparation for picking up my son and his belongings at the end of his uni year, I can foresee some issues with fitting all his stuff in the SUV, especially the fridge. In planning this, I've asked him to call so we can discuss. I want to make sure he's ready and most of his stuff is packed efficiently when I pick him up in a couple of days. I know what we have to discuss will annoy him. I'm traveling a far distance to pick him up, so, we have one crack at this. I don't really want to spend 6 hours driving, only to spend another 6 hours packing his things for him (while he's getting over a hangover ). For the most part though, I keep my thoughts to myself and wait for my children to ask for advice.

    In any case, I think most children, especially teens, feel their parents nag/give them unwanted advice. I'm looking for a specific type/s that tend to do this incessantly, to children, parent and/or to friends and strangers. I'll think about the Ni connection..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    I know what you mean about parents. My SEI mother was quite good about keep her opinions to herself and not pester. My father, on the other hand (ENTj i believe) was a tyrant. I wouldn't classify it as advice, more like dictatorship.

    As a parent myself, I give my children advice; sometimes it's not what they want to hear, but, must be said. For example, in preparation for picking up my son and his belongings at the end of his uni year, I can foresee some issues with fitting all his stuff in the SUV, especially the fridge. In planning this, I've asked him to call so we can discuss. I want to make sure he's ready and most of his stuff is packed efficiently when I pick him up in a couple of days. I know what we have to discuss will annoy him. I'm traveling a far distance to pick him up, so, we have one crack at this. I don't really want to spend 6 hours driving, only to spend another 6 hours packing his things for him (while he's getting over a hangover ). For the most part though, I keep my thoughts to myself and wait for my children to ask for advice.

    In any case, I think most children, especially teens, feel their parents nag/give them unwanted advice. I'm looking for a specific type/s that tend to do this incessantly, to children, parent and/or to friends and strangers. I'll think about the Ni connection..
    Well I can only speak from personal account that NiTe offer advice all the time but don't get upset when their kids don't take it but J types might get upset when the advice they gave was not taken and yet other types might follow up on the advice they gave to see that it was completed.

    Depending on the situation I will offer advice and follow to see if it was done; my sister and cousin (ESE) will not offer advice until asked or the subject comes up and then will not be too upset when the advice was not followed through on

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    I'm always offering advice, it's kind of my default mode; when people come to me to vent or with their problems, which is frequent, I naturally fall into the role of reflector and advice-giver. I think it's an EJ thing, trying to show people how to keep things "under control." Makes sense - an extroverted/contacting attitude towards structure/organization/functionality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    What type is most likely to impulsively offer advice to anyone, even when it's clear the advice is unwanted? What type is most likely to react strongly to unwanted advice?

    Is it type related?
    It could be EJ > IJ > IP > EP. Or, J > P in expecting advice to be followed, E > I likelihood of it being given, EP being least likely to care about it being discarded.

    I don't know, really. I'm hesitant about pointing out particular IEs - on socionics level, people are likely to consider their conflictor's, supervisee's and to a degree, other types' approach as "wrong", and try to "correct" it.

    I, for example, get such advice from ESE. It would be easy to blame ESEs, but that's only my point of view - probably someone else would say they're nice about it, but other type (whose input I'd value more) is obnoxious and gives pointless advice, etc.

    I don't like to give direct advice even if it's asked - I'd rather give people facts and let them make their own decision. But, in pointing out things, I suppose some people might consider it giving advice - what to consider etc. - and then when time is scarce I may even insist they act quickly, especially if they panic and make things worse... not that I ever don't, just in different situations. So, it goes with "impulsively offer advice", but it's not nearly as often as my mom (ESE) who'll basically tell her friends what to do half the time, although they usually listen to someone else anyway.

    Anyway, I choose to blame EJs.
    Last edited by Aiss; 04-25-2010 at 12:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    It could be EJ > IJ > IP > EP. Or, J > P in expecting advice to be followed, I > E likelihood of it being given, EP being least likely to care about it being discarded.

    I don't know, really. I'm hesitant about pointing out particular IEs - on socionics level, people are likely to consider their conflictor's, supervisee's and to a degree, other types' approach as "wrong", and try to "correct" it.

    I, for example, get such advice from ESE. It would be easy to blame ESEs, but that's only my point of view - probably someone else would say they're nice about it, but other type (whose input I'd value more) is obnoxious and gives pointless advice, etc.

    I don't like to give direct advice even if it's asked - I'd rather give people facts and let them make their own decision. But, in pointing out things, I suppose some people might consider it giving advice - what to consider etc. - and then when time is scarce I may even insist they act quickly, especially if they panic and make things worse... not that I ever don't, just in different situations. So, it goes with "impulsively offer advice", but it's not nearly as often as my mom (ESE) who'll basically tell her friends what to do half the time, although they usually listen to someone else anyway.

    Anyway, I choose to blame EJs.
    It's an aweful test question to determine any value to determine type.

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    not type related, but your receptiveness to advice is probably quadra related. You'd likely take advice from people in your own quadra, or people in your beneficiary quadra.(SLI and IEE would take advice off ESE and LII(but probably wouldn't be as able to follow this advice as it would not but put in their quadra values), also any other delta, but probably think of gamma/beta advice with skepticism because the different values). However, this shouldn't discount universal good sense which will creat advice for everyone, but i think this pool of advice gets smaller by the day due to people's narrowing, focused beliefs.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It's an aweful test question to determine any value to determine type.
    You lost me there. What do you mean and how does it relate to what I said?

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    I recieve from NiTe, annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    I know what you mean about parents. My SEI mother was quite good about keep her opinions to herself and not pester. My father, on the other hand (ENTj i believe) was a tyrant. I wouldn't classify it as advice, more like dictatorship.

    As a parent myself, I give my children advice; sometimes it's not what they want to hear, but, must be said. For example, in preparation for picking up my son and his belongings at the end of his uni year, I can foresee some issues with fitting all his stuff in the SUV, especially the fridge. In planning this, I've asked him to call so we can discuss. I want to make sure he's ready and most of his stuff is packed efficiently when I pick him up in a couple of days. I know what we have to discuss will annoy him. I'm traveling a far distance to pick him up, so, we have one crack at this. I don't really want to spend 6 hours driving, only to spend another 6 hours packing his things for him (while he's getting over a hangover ). For the most part though, I keep my thoughts to myself and wait for my children to ask for advice.

    In any case, I think most children, especially teens, feel their parents nag/give them unwanted advice. I'm looking for a specific type/s that tend to do this incessantly, to children, parent and/or to friends and strangers. I'll think about the Ni connection..
    Well I'm 40 and have kids of my own at this point. It seems like if it were about youth they would have let up a bit.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Didn't you let someone out? Like WorkaholicAnon...
    No no no.
    I too believe that they're your Conflictors .
    So, what are our types?

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    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Well I'm 40 and have kids of my own at this point. It seems like if it were about youth they would have let up a bit.
    ?

    Your kids are young, right? I've experienced 3 through their teen years. It's the usual routine that most children at this stage rebel against their parents. They don't particularly care to hear their advice. There are physiological reasons why this happens - that and parents in turn have to learn to let go as children rightfully challenge for adult-like independence. So, there is a struggle until the issues level off when both learn new terms of reference. It's a 'rite of passage' of sorts.
    Last edited by cinq; 04-25-2010 at 12:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    ?

    Your kids are young, right? I've experienced 3 through their teen years. It's the usual routine that most children at this stage rebel against their parents. They don't particularly care to here their advice. There are physiological reasons why this happens - that and parents in turn have to learn to let go as children rightfully challenge for adult-like independence. So, there is a struggle until the issues level off when both learn new terms of reference. It's a 'rite of passage' of sorts.
    I mean my parents still give me tons of unsolicited and unwanted advice, even though I'm an adult. Yeah, my oldest is 8.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  19. #19
    Creepy-cinq

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I mean my parents still give me tons of unsolicited and unwanted advice, even though I'm an adult. Yeah, my oldest is 8.
    Ok. Fair enough. I guess, as our parents are different, hence, why I'm not understanding what you mean. My parents have been 'lassez-faire' types - for different reasons (my mom feeling it should be this way; my dad being more than anxious to rid of the burden). Also, I make sure I live a fair distance, so that there is no interference. Caller ID comes in handy.

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    Me and WorkaholicsAnon.

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    Is she (WA) an ENFp, in your opinion?

    EDIT: just say it, I don't bite.
    Last edited by Trevor; 04-25-2010 at 01:49 AM.

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    Those aren't conflictors dude.

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    You know, Pinocchio. I am a little bit of unsatisfied right now. I secretly hoped you'd say (tut==LSI). It sure is something I say to myself from time to time. Not very often, but yes, there are times. Today, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    You know, Pinocchio. I am a little bit of unsatisfied right now. I secretly hoped you'd say (tut==LSI). It sure is something I say to myself from time to time. Not very often, but yes, there are times. Today, for example.
    If it helps, it's something I've wondered. And what you say makes sense re:ENFps. I'd like to hear more about it in this thread, if you would, please. I'm curious about your comments.

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    Family members:

    ESE mother: Freely gives out unsolicited advice. I think some of it stems from just being motherly but I see it as patronizing and overprotecting. Alot of it is on related stuff because she knows how weak I am in that area. Like, you're posture isn't quite right in that chair and you're straining your back, you should get a more comfortable chair and not sit in that one all day. And I'm telling her, well I'm comfortable thank, you. And if I'm not comfortable, I'll ask for your advice on chairs, but please don't dictate terms of comfort for me.

    SLI father: Almost never gives out advice. A couple times I've wanted his input and he was of no help. He's like, yeah, whatever.

    EII sister: Usually waits to give advice until asked but she's given me some insightful and useful advice. Particularly in the more emotionally oriented and relationship-y areas.

    Myself: I rarely give advice unless others ask me for it. If someone looks like they're really struggling with something, I'll make suggestions but not in a shoving it down their throats way. It's up to them whether or not they want to use it. Almost all of the advice I give is more intellectual in nature. I find it difficult if not impossible to assist others with emotional problems. Not that I ever get asked anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    You know, Pinocchio. I am a little bit of unsatisfied right now. I secretly hoped you'd say (tut==LSI). It sure is something I say to myself from time to time. Not very often, but yes, there are times. Today, for example.

    I'll say it then:

    TUTTI-FRUITY IS AN LSI!!!

    Feel any better now?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    TUTURUTURU IS DAMN STRAIGHT!

    Forgive me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    First thing's first: I'm kinda suspicious of your interest. It's like you're testing me for something. Like your bullshit radar caught up on something or something. Paranoia

    Second thing's second: It's what they tend to do, so far we agree. Why do they tend to do it: the explanation lies in their Fi function which is their Limiting/Creative/Static/Introverted/Concrete function. For the explanation of those terms I suggest consulting Smilingeyes-labcoat-holy-scriptures. They really do have their shit together and can explain it to you well.


    No bullshit radar - I was just curious about your ENFp experience. Or, Fi experience.
    Last edited by cinq; 04-25-2010 at 12:25 PM.

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    My ESFj dad gives me unneeded advice all the time, and he makes a big deal about the advice he does give lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    You cornered me.
    But be it, my opinion is: the validity of the assertion "WA is IEE" is the same as the one of "Arctures is LSI" and the one of "tuturututu is LII".

    So ((WA==IEE) == ((Arc==LSI) && (tut==LII))) || (((WA==IEE) == (Arc==LSI)) && (tut==LII))) = 1. I think.

    Edit: I just said it within two minutes of your premiere in getting inpatient.
    Let it be known that I believe Workaholics and I get along too well to be conflictors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    That only time can decide.
    I dunno man, I consider myself to be a pretty good judge of character.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Giving unwanted advice is not really type related, although EJ types are more likely to give advice freely and frequently than IP types, for instance. This is because extroverts are more likely to contribute frequently and, for lack of a better word, unpremeditatedly, than introverts, and obviously advice is an inherently judging-related, rather than perceiving-related, activity (or if you prefer, inherently a rational activity, but I think in this case the MBTI terms are helpful). However, I think the more relevant socionics observation is that a) we tend to give advice based on our ego functions (our ego functions are overrepresented in our advice), and accordingly, b) we tend to notice advice as "unwanted" more when it comes from types that are not in our quadra, and when it reflects IMs that we do not value (or sometimes that we value but which we can handle fine, i.e. ego elements). So the feeling that someone is constantly "in our business" or always "giving unwanted advice," may often have to do less with the frequency of the advice and more to do with the nature (socionics and other, actually) of the advice; that is, how you say it is more important than how often. If an SLE and an LSE both give me advice, it will feel like the LSE is constantly giving me unwanted, unasked-for, annoying advice, while it will feel like the SLE always ready with a helpful idea, suggestion, or statement, even if they speak equally often.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Half of the time I don't think advice has much to do with the individual actions they are advising you on, but the attitude behind them. As if they want you to feel a certain way when you do things. Think of corporate culture, which not only attempts to correct your actions but also how you think and feel. Sometimes with advice you'll notice that the advice you've been given has no concrete application at all but yet still promotes an attitude.

    I think the main reason people extend themselves beyond advising simple actions is egotistical. For example if I come across someone I disagree with, I am attempted to correct them or more specifically I want them to think just like me. I believe some forms of advice giving is done for the same reason as my example above, people just want others to think, feel and act just like themselves.

    Corporate culture can be an extreme version of this, but another place this could be easily done is in the parent-child relationship. I say 'easily done' because children can't resist as easily and effectively like adults (basically children have no real power) and parents confuse caring and indoctrinating.

    Anyway, I don't think it's type related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Giving unwanted advice is not really type related, although EJ types are more likely to give advice freely and frequently than IP types, for instance. This is because extroverts are more likely to contribute frequently and, for lack of a better word, unpremeditatedly, than introverts, and obviously advice is an inherently judging-related, rather than perceiving-related, activity (or if you prefer, inherently a rational activity, but I think in this case the MBTI terms are helpful). However, I think the more relevant socionics observation is that a) we tend to give advice based on our ego functions (our ego functions are overrepresented in our advice), and accordingly, b) we tend to notice advice as "unwanted" more when it comes from types that are not in our quadra, and when it reflects IMs that we do not value (or sometimes that we value but which we can handle fine, i.e. ego elements). So the feeling that someone is constantly "in our business" or always "giving unwanted advice," may often have to do less with the frequency of the advice and more to do with the nature (socionics and other, actually) of the advice; that is, how you say it is more important than how often. If an SLE and an LSE both give me advice, it will feel like the LSE is constantly giving me unwanted, unasked-for, annoying advice, while it will feel like the SLE always ready with a helpful idea, suggestion, or statement, even if they speak equally often.
    I like this answer! Makes sense.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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