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Thread: Alphas in formal and serious situations

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    Default Alphas in formal and serious situations

    The question is what do you do when etiquette in a formal situation, like a party, calls you to not laugh, joke, fun or make fun?

    If you went to a party and it was not polite to joke around what would you do?
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-23-2010 at 07:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The question is what do you do when etiquette in a formal situation, like a party, calls you to not laugh, joke, fun or make fun?
    I'm polite and tactful when it's needed. How many adults have you observed that have poor table manners or can't recite the collected works of Chaucer in front of a crowd?
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I'm polite and tactful when it's needed. How many adults have you observed that have poor table manners or can't recite the collected works of Chaucer in front of a crowd?
    What type are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What type are you?
    Whatever you want me to be.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Whatever you want me to be.
    You sound Fe so far, ESE or LSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You sound Fe so far, ESE or LSE.
    You may want to edit that post before someone quotes you on that... wait, it's too late already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    You may want to edit that post before someone quotes you on that... wait, it's too late already.
    Why? I don't mind trying things to come up with or come to something; isn't that what trying is all about?

    Let's give this thread a chance please; we can learn interesting things about something I want to show/demonstrate here.

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    Hallo there, I'm Si. (c: You want to know about my sensations at a party I hear? Ok.. I walk in the door. Hmm I feel slightly awkward. Grab a glass of champagne because it's something to do and enjoy, and I won't stand out so much. If there's no one I know, maybe I'll stand against a wall for awhile, sipping and watching people mingle etc. Oh here's someone approaching. "Hello, I'm __!"
    "Hi - Jem."
    Silence.
    "Blah blah blah blah".
    "Yeah."
    "Blah blah blah blah!"
    "lol Yeah."
    "Blah Blah Blah Blah"
    "mm"
    "Blah Blah Blah Blah"
    "Why do you say that?"
    "Well blah blah blah"
    "Excuse me - bathroom :-p"
    "Nice to meet you."
    "Yeah. (c:"

    Splash some cold water on my face. Whewwww Reminding myself why I hate parties. Bbbboring pleasantries.

    Hmm there's some dancing going on. Gah - what do I have to lose? Ddddancing for the heck of it.

    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Why? I don't mind trying things to come up with or come to something; isn't that what trying is all about?

    Let's give this thread a chance please; we can learn interesting things about something I want to show/demonstrate here.
    Let's rephrase your previous post.

    "You sound Fe so far, so either you have strong and valued Fe, or weak and unvalued Fe."

    And whatever you're trying to demonstrate would probably work better if you haven't spilled the beans in the other thread. Just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Let's rephrase your previous post.

    "You sound Fe so far, so either you have strong and valued Fe, or weak and unvalued Fe."

    And whatever you're going to demonstrate would probably work better if you haven't spilled the beans in the other thread. Just saying.
    Aiss; do you have an axe to grind with me; I am trying very hard here to demonstrate something in works. Remember I have Ne and sometimes the only thing I can do is to show it. Look at the person's words, "polite" and "tactful" (Te and etiquette) so Te can either go in ego or the 3rd position and then look at his second sentence, the way it is written to convey information. Anyway, let's stop with him now. ILE
    My ESE sister just said:
    It wouldn't be a party, it would be like a wake. (shaking her head and outward extension of her arms gives off the impress like "what's with that")
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-22-2010 at 10:43 PM.

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    Mope in misanthropy, like I always do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The question is what do you do when etiquette in a formal situation, like a party, calls you to not laugh, joke, fun or make fun?
    Then I'm inclined not to laugh, joke or make fun. Sometimes I do, though.

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    I have been practicing my formal ettiquette for many years, on the off chance that I may someday be granted the opportunity to have dinner with the Queen.

    Formal ettiquette, if I know all the details of the rules, makes me feel comfortable and secure. It allows me to use my Ti knowledge of the explicit rules of ettiquette to substitute for my poor Fi relationship-forging skills. If I'm meeting strangers, I would much rather do it in a formal setting where there's some kind of ettiquette, rather than an informal setting where I have no idea how to behave.

    Of course, if I have an ESE or similar there to help me, I would be much less averse to the informal setting. And of course, if it's people I know and trust and don't have to worry about forging an Fi relationship with, the informal setting is much preferrable, being more conducive to Fe.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Aiss; do you have an axe to grind with me.
    Nothing personal, Maritsa.

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    The answer is to not be in formal situations.

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    Looking for more responses here please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The question is what do you do when etiquette in a formal situation, like a party, calls you to not laugh, joke, fun or make fun?
    It depends on the context. I am not sure if I understand what you are asking. Do you have a particular scenario in mind? Sometimes the etiquette is reasonable and other times it is quite absurd in itself. It depends on the reason.

    ETA: I cannot believe I'm agreeing with Pinocchio.
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    I ignore it. I am a huge joker by nature. I would prefer to have fun than follow some archaic rulez.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    I wouldn't go. Formal events are stupid.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    The answer is to not be in formal situations.
    That's easy. No one ever invites me to stuff anyway.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I think I know where you're getting at.

    I'll say this: I tend avoid situations where I have to "act" a "part" in anyway, shape, or form. I rather be. If I absolutely have to be in a situation where there is unwritten, or written rule for doing things—for whatever reason—I probably (it depends) will stay quiet and be polite (hoping somebody will slip over a banana peal) 'til I get to back home (or a friends house) and eat Cheetos Flamin' Hot chips... with my blazer on.



    Do speeches count with your question?

    I had fun with the "rules" by breaking them in front of my professor in my speech class last year. I was swearing like hell, that relaxed the entire class though. The professor gave me a big fat warning, but that was fun; not just for me, but my audience too. Ironically, another professor of mine saw my main point for doing so and praised it instead.

    Fuck! that was cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The question is what do you do when etiquette in a formal situation, like a party, calls you to not laugh, joke, fun or make fun?
    Unless I'm there in the capacity of an undercover spy, a better question would be how I failed to avoid attending an event as lame as the one you describe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    The question is what do you do when etiquette in a formal situation, like a party, calls you to not laugh, joke, fun or make fun?
    I don't really understand the question because I don't need to joke all the time. Etiquette is usually not a problem for me. I automatically go with the flow and melt into the situation, whatever it is. Formal situations can actually be quite fun to be in. The only thing that can be a problem is when somebody starts to give me direct orders on how to behave. I take that as an insult because I perfectly trust my ability to adapt to the situation without a manual.

    My ESI mother once gave me a handbook on etiquette. I'm surprised she thought I would need it because people always tell me I'm very polite, maybe not polite in a formal way, but still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    I don't really understand the question because I don't need to joke all the time. Etiquette is usually not a problem for me. I automatically go with the flow and melt into the situation, whatever it is. Formal situations can actually be quite fun to be in. The only thing that can be a problem is when somebody starts to give me direct orders on how to behave. I take that as an insult because I perfectly trust my ability to adapt to the situation without a manual.

    My ESI mother once gave me a handbook on etiquette. I'm surprised she thought I would need it because people always tell me I'm very polite, maybe not polite in a formal way, but still.
    What happends when you're at a party and they tell you not to joke around?

    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    That's easy. No one ever invites me to stuff anyway.
    You are always welcome to come over and hang out with me; we can catch a vintage fair with my mom; she really enjoys that sort of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What happends when you're at a party and they tell you not to joke around?
    Why am I there at that party?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Why am I there at that party?
    You're invited, but you're asked to not be famboyant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You're invited, but you're asked to not be famboyant.
    Being there simply by the virtue of being invited is not a reason to be there. So why am I there? What is the occasion?

    But I do not think that there would ever be a situation in which someone would feel the need to warn me not to be flamboyant. It's just not generally in my nature to be flamboyant, as my natural inclination is to blend in, not be noticed, or placed in the spotlight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You're invited, but you're asked to not be famboyant.
    Frankly an invitation like that (specifically asking people not to be flamboyant or joke around) would be quite rude, and a breach of etiquette in and of itself. Proper etiquette never draws attention to other people's breaches of etiquette. (Note that by pointing this out, I am breaching formal etiquette myself. )

    A polite invitation might mention something about it being a "formal" party, or a "black-tie event", but the details of how to behave would be left unspoken (unless asked).
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Frankly an invitation like that (specifically asking people not to be flamboyant or joke around) would be quite rude, and a breach of etiquette in and of itself. Proper etiquette never draws attention to other people's breaches of etiquette. (Note that by pointing this out, I am breaching formal etiquette myself. )

    A polite invitation might mention something about it being a "formal" party, or a "black-tie event", but the details of how to behave would be left unspoken (unless asked).
    I agree with this, and most invitations usually occur in this manner. Usually the context for the party is given first. (e.g. "You are invited to a party in so-and-so's recognition in the field of X. It is a black-tie event.")

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    If you went to a party and it was not polite to joke around what would you do?
    All you are doing right now is repeating yourself without providing any further clarity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I agree with this, and most invitations usually occur in this manner. Usually the context for the party is given first. (e.g. "You are invited to a party in so-and-so's recognition in the field of X. It is a black-tie event.")

    All you are doing right now is repeating yourself without providing any further clarity.
    I don't know how else to put it...maybe we can get a TiNe to explain.

    How do you use your Si in a party?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I don't know how else to put it...maybe we can get a TiNe to explain.
    I am a LII.

    How do you use your Si in a party?
    I don't really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I am a LII.

    I don't really.
    Oh, you see, EII and LII often have misunderstandings in logic with one another; good way of pointing this out to everyone thank you...here you see...

    2. Inhibition.
    Fi with Ti

    People connected with this kind of relations (or at least one of them) are bound to experience a serious life crisis (e.g. inability to solve certain life problems). Information exchange in this type of relations is often inefficient – what is said by one, may be unpleasant to the other and may be ignored. In pedagogy this kind of relations also causes many problems.

    This feature is caused by the fact that one function develops at the expense of the other (a classical problem of shared resources). At the beginning of the article we have already noted the essence of Jungian personality typology – developing several capabilities costs the deterioration of some other. And this principle is well applicable to the functions “inhibiting” each other. At a distance the bearer of the inhibiting functions even attracts, invokes interest, since he can easily do what the other perceives as difficult.

    In reality it is common that people whose types are linked with the inhibiting feature of relations will work together without running into conflicts. This is explicable by their different levels of responsibility. However, at closer distances (such as family) this really turns into inhibition of each other, into condemnation of each other weak points instead of helping. As it was explained in the previous paragraph, developing a skill one’s partner requires, or just taking a partner’s standpoint, costs suppressing a part of one’s own EGO, and the harder is a problem, the harder is the suppression, and the stronger one’s self-esteem suffers.

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    While that explanation is nice, it is not really needed, not unless you need to hear yourself speak.

    So to repeat myself: Maritsa33, you are not really providing any further clarity to your question. You are repeating what you are saying. There is a party to which we are invited and we are told that it is impolite to display flamboyant behavior. You expect me to provide you an answer that encapsulates the entirety of my behavior in such a vague context?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    While that explanation is nice, it is not really needed, not unless you need to hear yourself speak.

    So to repeat myself: Maritsa33, you are not really providing any further clarity to your question. You are repeating what you are saying. There is a party to which we are invited and we are told that it is impolite to display flamboyant behavior. You expect me to provide you an answer that encapsulates the entirety of my behavior in such a vague context?
    I don't understand what you want me to clear up. You are invited to a party, obviously, whoever invited you was thinking of you, and you sort of have to be at your best behavior. What do you do in that situation that you are placed in? Do you keep to a good behavior or do you make fun and find fun and what is fun to you? But, my question was mainly to SEI and ESE anyway, I should have specified.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-23-2010 at 09:06 PM.

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    what is the point of all this again? Alphas don't like being extra formal, we get it.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I don't understand what you want me to clear up. You are invited to a party, obviously, whoever invited you was thinking of you, and you sort of have to be at your best behavior. What do you do in that situation that you are placed in?
    Invitation does not have the inherent quality of "thinking about certain person." If I was in college, I may have been invited by virtue of belonging to a certain organization on the membership roster or belonging to a certain major. In other contexts, I may be invited because I am friends with a mutual friend. Sometimes I am invited just so I can be another cog in the party machine, just another bonus number in a room.

    But nowhere do you tell us what sort of party it is. This is what makes it difficult for the Ti-egos in this thread to tell you how we would behave. Because different types of parties typically involve different rules of etiquette. The purpose and people involved in the party may also affect the level of etiquette to which we are willing to adhere. Is it for someone that we care for and respect? Is it a workplace or organizational party?

    But if I have to be at my best behavior and I am there for whatever justifications I may have, then I will behave as is proper. Alphas are not complete dolts when it comes to etiquette and proper behavior. We are not all party animals or pigs that disrespect decorum with our very presence. We will typically not try and be disruptive. You will not see Alphas try to be too disruptive if it would interfere with the desired Fe + Si of the party. An LII would not want to stick out in the crowd or bring undue attention to themselves, so an LII will likely behave. And as Pinocchio suggests, an ILE is not always going to be disruptive to such parties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Invitation does not have the inherent quality of "thinking about certain person." If I was in college, I may have been invited by virtue of belonging to a certain organization on the membership roster or belonging to a certain major. In other contexts, I may be invited because I am friends with a mutual friend. Sometimes I am invited just so I can be another cog in the party machine, just another bonus number in a room.

    But nowhere do you tell us what sort of party it is. This is what makes it difficult for the Ti-egos in this thread to tell you how we would behave. Because different types of parties typically involve different rules of etiquette. The purpose and people involved in the party may also affect the level of etiquette to which we are willing to adhere. Is it for someone that we care for and respect? Is it a workplace or organizational party?

    But if I have to be at my best behavior and I am there for whatever justifications I may have, then I will behave as is proper. Alphas are not complete dolts when it comes to etiquette and proper behavior. We are not all party animals or pigs that disrespect decorum with our very presence. We will typically not try and be disruptive. You will not see Alphas try to be too disruptive if it would interfere with the desired Fe + Si of the party. An LII would not want to stick out in the crowd or bring undue attention to themselves, so an LII will likely behave. And as Pinocchio suggests, an ILE is not always going to be disruptive to such parties.
    To a EII an invitation does have that inherent quality. That's how you can tell EII from LII on the forum.

    But nowhere do you tell us what sort of party it is.
    That is Ti in works and that is why I am Fi because I did not think of that first. When someone says party, I say who, you say....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    To a EII an invitation does have that inherent quality.
    How so? Invitations are not necessarily personal or informal. I get mass invites on Facebook all the time. Do you honestly think that every invitation you receive is because people are thinking specifically about you? That seems somewhat egotistical.

    That is Ti in works and that is why I am Fi because I did not think of that first. When someone says party, I say who, you say....
    Actually, you are forgetting the underlying question for many of us: "Why am I going to this party in the first place?" That is a who, a what, a where, a when, and a why involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    How so? Invitations are not necessarily personal or informal. I get mass invites on Facebook all the time. Do you honestly think that every invitation you receive is because people are thinking specifically about you? That seems somewhat egotistical.

    Actually, you are forgetting the underlying question for many of us: "Why am I going to this party in the first place?" That is a who, a what, a where, a when, and a why involved.
    An invitation to me is personal and I wish I had more time to associate with people on a personal level. I guess you would go to this party because you are invited and because the person doing the inviting was thinking about extending the invitation to you as a formality or as generosity.

    I don't analyze things to that depth; if I got and invite then it's because someone was thinking of me; if I feel close relations with that person, I am likely to accept it and go and try to have a good time.

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