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    Default People who shove their opinions down your throat

    I have a neighbor who's extremely opinionated about many things and doesn't hestitate to shove it down your throat. She's the kind of person that if she loves something or hates something, the whole world seems to know about it. She'll frequently post things on Facebook like how awful the movie she just saw was and she feels like it's her obligation to tell others how awful it is so that no one wastes their money or time on it. She's also that way about music, about restaurants (you must order this, don't order that!), books, TV, sports, politics, well everything.

    It's as if she doesn't quite grasp that her opinion is not the final authority and that other people have different opinions on things.

    Her point of view is completely different from mine. If I like or dislike something, I'm always careful to say that it's just my opinion, its not the absolute truth. But most of the time, I don't feel a need to broadcast to the whole world everytime I encounter something really good or really bad. I don't tell people things like, you gotta see this movie or avoid that one at all costs. What people do with their own time is their own business and as long as they're not harming anyone else, I really don't care. My neighbor thinks alot of things in this world are inherently good or inherently bad. I take a more relativistic stance. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

    She's especially this way when it comes to politics. We're both pretty liberal politically but it seems like half her facebook posts are ranting against republicans and how they should just go to hell. Whereas I'm more like I don't agree with their agenda and I hope they get someone better for next term but complaining isn't going to do much and its just a waste of time.

    I really don't know this person's socionic type. She's tested as ESFP and ENFP on separate occassions on the Myers-Briggs FWIW, which is not the same as socionics anyway.

    Anyway, are there types you think that are more prone to the kinds of behaviors my neighbor demonstrates?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    fuck yes, thats fi type bullshit

    isfjs do this to a ridiculous degree. she sounds just like this one I know and it irritates the fuck out of me.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    That sounds like a particularly pushy ego
    EII INFj
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    Sounds like a Dominant SEE. Se combined with Serious/Objectivist, and an instinct to take control of her surroundings.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    According to Rick's impressions, this is clear-cut ESE behavior:

    strong tastes and preferences; enthusiastic and forceful about likes and dislikes; socialites; emotionally involved; reflect values of community; large emotional range
    Socionic Types and their Overal Moods
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    My ESFp brother in law is like that. Watching TV, he always loudly proclaims his likes and dislikes of the things he sees with a readiness to defend these views. He also tends to express these in absolute terms and never calls them "his opinions".

    The above is not a value judgment. It's simply a constatation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    Anyway, are there types you think that are more prone to the kinds of behaviors my neighbor demonstrates?
    I think basically any type can do this, especially extraverted types. Often, it's not so much a matter of type, but of circumstances the individual is in. E.g. if someone holds opinions that fall on deaf ears all the time (e.g. because of bad quadra interaction, or interaction with lots of people of differing intellect), the positions held increasingly might become extreme over time. The way in which this manifests itself, however, might be type related.

    As a teenager I was very opiniated in the way you describe, in hindsight mostly because of interaction with people who never agreed with me or simply had no interest in what I had to say. In my family and in highschool, I was sort of the odd-person-out. All that changed when I went to uni and from day one started to meet lots of people I had no problems communicating with. You then become milder in your positions and in the way you communicate them.

    So perhaps your neighbor simply is in the wrong social network.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone View Post
    According to Rick's impressions, this is clear-cut ESE behavior:

    strong tastes and preferences; enthusiastic and forceful about likes and dislikes; socialites; emotionally involved; reflect values of community; large emotional range

    Socionic Types and their Overal Moods
    Based on that little snippet, sounds like I'd be turned off be ESE behavior, yet they are supposed to be my duals. Assuming I got my self-typing right of course.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    Based on that little snippet, sounds like I'd be turned off be ESE behavior, yet they are supposed to be my duals. Assuming I got my self-typing right of course.
    These things are only partly type-related, I think. Do 1/16 of people act like this?

    I also thought ESE at first, especially because of "need to broadcast" and "if I like it, it's good and you should like it as well" attitude, but they're usually not as forceful as you make her be (could be Se-PoLR speaking, I don't know), and not with strangers. That woman could be ESE, SEE or some other type for all I know. No type has monopoly on acting like this, really.

    Also, this snippet about ESE sounds true and it works rather well with LIIs poor awareness of their likes/dislikes, in my observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    I have learned, through various experiences, that this kind of behavior and thinking (or at least someone acting on such thoughts) bothers me greatly. The worst part is when you're unable to get away... (Easy to block a Facebook friend, not as easy to walk away from a real life interaction.)
    She lives a few doors down from me in my apartment complex. We used to talk to each other some but we don't really talk anymore. We say hi to each other when we pass each other down the hall, but that's it. She's not someone I wish I get close to.

    We were never Facebook friends. We do share a mutual friend and because of that, she will appear on the list of "People you may know". She's set up her profile so that *anyone* can view it, friends or not and I admit to having a little bit of a voyeuristic streak and peeking at it every now and then.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    You'll be surprised how many types are like this.

    EIE, ESE, LSI, etc and any type can be somewhat like this in certain situations.

    This is not a SEE imo, these are much more mild people. They are nice, gracious, charming, but vindictive when you don't give them what they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate
    fuck yes, thats fi type bullshit

    isfjs do this to a ridiculous degree. she sounds just like this one I know and it irritates the fuck out of me.
    Does this person sound like this? Then she's probably EIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    Based on that little snippet, sounds like I'd be turned off be ESE behavior, yet they are supposed to be my duals. Assuming I got my self-typing right of course.
    That's what I was wondering too. Perhaps, though, this particular woman needs to be cooled off a bit, maybe? I don't think Rick's description was meant to imply something immediately unlikable.

    However, my first impression was like thePirate's: that it's an -related thing, since it's about likes/dislikes. But I think Rick's impressions here make sense, in the sense that feels ok with telling , an inherently subjective process, what one's needs and what one needs to acquire/achieve are, according to some external thing. Likewise, feels ok with telling others what they should like/dislike, how relationships should manifest, etc. Just an idea.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I have a neighbor who's extremely opinionated about many things and doesn't hestitate to shove it down your throat. She's the kind of person that if she loves something or hates something, the whole world seems to know about it. She'll frequently post things on Facebook like how awful the movie she just saw was and she feels like it's her obligation to tell others how awful it is so that no one wastes their money or time on it. She's also that way about music, about restaurants (you must order this, don't order that!), books, TV, sports, politics, well everything.

    It's as if she doesn't quite grasp that her opinion is not the final authority and that other people have different opinions on things.

    Her point of view is completely different from mine. If I like or dislike something, I'm always careful to say that it's just my opinion, its not the absolute truth. But most of the time, I don't feel a need to broadcast to the whole world everytime I encounter something really good or really bad. I don't tell people things like, you gotta see this movie or avoid that one at all costs. What people do with their own time is their own business and as long as they're not harming anyone else, I really don't care. My neighbor thinks alot of things in this world are inherently good or inherently bad. I take a more relativistic stance. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

    She's especially this way when it comes to politics. We're both pretty liberal politically but it seems like half her facebook posts are ranting against republicans and how they should just go to hell. Whereas I'm more like I don't agree with their agenda and I hope they get someone better for next term but complaining isn't going to do much and its just a waste of time.

    I really don't know this person's socionic type. She's tested as ESFP and ENFP on separate occassions on the Myers-Briggs FWIW, which is not the same as socionics anyway.

    Anyway, are there types you think that are more prone to the kinds of behaviors my neighbor demonstrates?
    Obligation to others is Fi, not in the immediate but to the whole of the world. Fi has this "saving" kind of an approach of looking at things and people. Absolute truths is seeing things in black or white that sounds like INFj. Stubborness. FiNe feels this need to broascast, to be out there, to let everyone know what's right or wrong, good or bad.

    The last highlight is nothing like INFj in that we don't think that people are inharently good/bad. We believe they are good and the world messes them up.

    See the second sentance is kind of like me because we feel an obligation to inform and that makes whatever she is doing a cause for others not just herself or not just an opinion.

    I would agree with ESE typing on this; 100% J type of a person. I would rule out INFj based on the inharent nature deal; I would rule in ESTj.
    The ranter is like a forum member here, HITTA, who opens threads just to rant.
    Here's another, you can read his backlog of rants...

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-asshole.html
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 06:31 PM.

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    Frig, I wrote a longer post about this and school internet lost it.

    In summary:

    SEE = opinions about reality/right/wrong
    ESE = taste for environment/experience

    By the description above, I would say your neighbour sounds like ESE or EIE like hkkmr said. The difference imo comes from your neighbours intent and motivation. If she was actually right out offended by the experiences then I would say ESE. If she's trying to establish a kind of hierarchal order of these things or to establish her own good taste, I would say EIE.
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    Yeah I suppose it can be related to ESFp, but then I know an ESFp who's really mild mannered, at least when I know him. He's a top class diplomat, and he always seems to be listened to.

    What irks me is people who have to be right all the time - know it alls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Frig, I wrote a longer post about this and school internet lost it.

    In summary:

    SEE = opinions about reality/right/wrong
    ESE = taste for environment/experience

    By the description above, I would say your neighbour sounds like ESE or EIE like hkkmr said. The difference imo comes from your neighbours intent and motivation. If she was actually right out offended by the experiences then I would say ESE. If she's trying to establish a kind of hierarchal order of these things or to establish her own good taste, I would say EIE.
    I think not SEE -opinions on right and wrong would be more Fi wouldn't it; SEE are a lot more open minded. I agree with you completely, the neighbor is more ESE then SEE. I kind of feel like, with the idealism thing that it would be ESTj/LSE not EIE at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Yeah I suppose it can be related to ESFp, but then I know an ESFp who's really mild mannered, at least when I know him. He's a top class diplomat, and he always seems to be listened to.

    What irks me is people who have to be right all the time - know it alls.
    Wouldn't that be more J types then P types?
    P is a lot more open minded then the J.
    J types are awful about black and white lines much more so then open minded P types.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 06:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I think not SEE -opinions on right and wrong would be more Fi wouldn't it; SEE are a lot more open minded. I agree with you completely, the neighbor is more ESE then SEE. I kind of feel like, with the idealism thing that it would be ESTj/LSE not EIE at all.
    SEEs are Fi-creative. Which is less than Fi-base, but still quite Fi.

    Wouldn't that be more J types then P types?
    P is a lot more open minded then the J.
    J types are awful about black and white lines much more so then open minded P types.
    MBTI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    SEEs are Fi-creative. Which is less than Fi-base, but still quite Fi.



    MBTI.
    Doesn't matter; Rational then I would say, although there's nothing rational about the behavior except to "save" the world from bad movies...that's ironic. I am saying that it can't be SEE or EII; it has to be ESE or ???

    SEE-Se is evaluated as Fi comes in the door
    ESI-Fi is evaluated as Se comes in the door

    It can't be Se because it's not occupation of a space to be moral in the context of posting rants. SEE would then have no reason to behave in such a manner, so it makes that behavior completely unnatural to the type and almost impossible.

    ESE-Fe is evaluated as Si comes in the door

    Si being a variety of hedonistic experiences makes sense for the person to be Si; The person's feelings or need to influence feelings is driven by the quality/sensation of the movie experience.


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    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 07:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Doesn't matter; Rational then I would say, although there's nothing rational about the behavior except to "save" the world from bad movies...that's ironic. I am saying that it can't be SEE or EII; it has to be ESE or ???

    SEE-Se is evaluated as Fi comes in the door
    ESI-Fi is evaluated as Se comes in the door

    It can't be Se because it's not occupation of a space to be moral in the context of posting rants. SEE would then have no reason to behave in such a manner, so it makes that behavior completely unnatural to the type and almost impossible.
    This makes me feel good, because I really hate this kind of thing. What a relief to know my duals aren't... wait, you'd have me dualize with ESEs. Whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
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    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Misunderstood, what do you hate?
    Kind of behaviour described in OP... as I commented earlier, I experienced it (though not quite so forceful) from ESEs, especially my mom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    These things are only partly type-related, I think. Do 1/16 of people act like this?

    I also thought ESE at first, especially because of "need to broadcast" and "if I like it, it's good and you should like it as well" attitude, but they're usually not as forceful as you make her be (could be Se-PoLR speaking, I don't know), and not with strangers. That woman could be ESE, SEE or some other type for all I know. No type has monopoly on acting like this, really.

    Also, this snippet about ESE sounds true and it works rather well with LIIs poor awareness of their likes/dislikes, in my observation.
    Certain types do have monopoly on actions, that's why I think once we figure it out, we, socionics psychologists can revolutionize helping people by encouraging them to refrain from certain actions based on their type....see where I am headed dear?

    Force is not Se. Force is not Se. Force is not Se....someone should write that in stone somewhere. Maybe it's not force but idealism that is perceived to be forceful and driving in nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    someone should write that in stone somewhere.
    Counterintuitively, things written in stone tend to remain unknown to the majority of the population.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Counterintuitively, things written in stone tend to remain unknown to the majority of the population.
    Extraverted sensing is also called Volitional Sensing, or Space-capturing Sensing.

    This sensing function directs to occupation of space. People with this strong function are usually demanding people, which like when other people fulfill their wishes and demands. Not so much demanding as can get attention of individuals who they can get to act on something or requests. They often (but not always) have athletic, somewhat roundish figure, quick and demanding eyes. They are very persistent in the life: "If I want, then it should be achieved” [this is in the case of very healthy Se], and they often gladly help other people – those who accept their leadership. Their outbursts of anger may fear some people, but in fact they are short-term [this is a relative phrase that may or may not apply and situational as anger is true for all people] – in several minutes they become calm again and restore their good mood.

    SEE are generally very good natured people.
    SLE, may be more stern.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 07:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Force is not Se. Force is not Se. Force is not Se....someone should write that in stone somewhere. Maybe it's not force but idealism that is perceived to be forceful and driving in nature.
    I mentioned forced in reference to Se-PoLR. Which is oversensitive to anything it perceives as display of force against it, or so socionics sources tell me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I mentioned forced in reference to Se-PoLR. Which is oversensitive to anything it perceives as display of force against it, or so socionics sources tell me.
    Yes...somewhat true, but because of the person's values and ideals it rules EII out because the person believe in inharent bad ness of people which EII does not because EII is generally very positive, optimistic, and hopeful person.

    This person is a consistant actor of certain behaviors. If they were Se PoLR the act/behavior would be very short lived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Extraverted sensing is also called Volitional Sensing, or Space-capturing Sensing.

    This sensing function directs to occupation of space. People with this strong function are usually demanding people, which like when other people fulfill their wishes and demands. Not so much demanding as can get attention of individuals who they can get to act on something or requests. They often (but not always) have athletic, somewhat roundish figure, quick and demanding eyes. They are very persistent in the life: "If I want, then it should be achieved” [this is in the case of very healthy Se], and they often gladly help other people – those who accept their leadership. Their outbursts of anger may fear some people, but in fact they are short-term – in several minutes they become calm again and restore their good mood.

    Generally very good natured people.
    I'm not convinced it's right to be quite as selective as this for the types, it can lead to confusion when bolding certain parts like you're last bolded part (i'm assuming you are bolding it due to you thinking it being very significant part).

    EG:

    Quote Originally Posted by ESTp description
    ESTps are very slow to anger. And when they do become angered it is very difficult for them to calm down.
    and, for sake of it:

    Quote Originally Posted by ESTj description
    You are often unable to control your emotions in full. You can easily loose your temper with friends and relatives if they do not follow your instructions and tuition or if someone's behaviour goes against your logic and understanding.
    Which also maybe could be confused somewhat with what you are saying.

    I suppose what i'm saying is that take it as it's whole, when you look at tiny bits, it seems it's easy to get muddled on which type does which, also to mention some people have more volatile personalities than others of the same psycho-type.

    It's one of the things in my observation which can lead to poor typing.

    ie, to use these descriptions to best of their capability, need to take it all into account, not really individual sentences etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm not convinced it's right to be quite as selective as this for the types, it can lead to confusion when bolding certain parts like you're last bolded part (i'm assuming you are bolding it due to you thinking it being very significant part).
    True, I just copied and pasted that when it had the bolding, I will go back and edit.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 08:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I mentioned forced in reference to Se-PoLR. Which is oversensitive to anything it perceives as display of force against it, or so socionics sources tell me.
    Se, in the modern context of the word, should be "GETTING" not force. Se PoLR is not being able to get or encourage people to follow a suggestion or demand. That might be perceived as pushing and other odd behavior (when the person tries to but sees that they are being unsuccessful), kind like what I do, persistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    I honestly think the woman in the OP is NOT ESE. ESE's care about manners.
    I know, because I don't think you are ESE...don't shoot me, please. I tried to tell you, but I didn't want to seem pushy. I am trying a new approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Yes...somewhat true, but because of the person's values and ideals it rules EII out because the person believe in inharent bad ness of people which EII does not because EII is generally very positive, optimistic, and hopeful person.

    This person is a consistant actor of certain behaviors. If they were Se PoLR the act/behavior would be very short lived.
    You don't understand. I wasn't referring to that woman's possible PoLR, but to the storyteller's - that is, warrior-librarian's.

    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    I honestly think the woman in the OP is NOT ESE. ESE's care about manners.
    I agree, they're usually nicer about it, especially with strangers. As I said, I have no idea about that woman's type. Some ESEs do treat their likes/dislikes as objective truth, though. (I know one LII who adjusts his preferences to suit ESE. Even orders the same as she does in restaurants usually.)

    And anyway, no type is rude by definition, even though there probably is a correlation, while rude people probably have a type. So there probably exists a rude person of any and every type. (Even EII.)

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    I don't see how this can be EIE.

    EIE- Fe is evaluated when Ti comes in the door.

    There is no need to influence feelings based on movies for EIE. Movies is a sensation, has nothing to do with Ti so..how can it be EIE? What would be the rational behind that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    You don't understand. I wasn't referring to that woman's possible PoLR, but to the storyteller's - that is, warrior-librarian's.
    Oh. No. I think warrior-librarian may be Fi ego block holder not Se Polr. I think she is SEE or ESI because she is careful to say that it's not an obsolute truthe..that black and white behavior of EII.

    She writes "I don't feel a need to broadcast to the whole world everytime I encounter something really good or really bad."

    EII would because of that nature we have but we broadcast to save. You can get a sense of that by reading Fi and Ethics post by Silverchris.

    "What people do with their own time is their own business and as long as they're not harming anyone else, I really don't care."

    EII would care because we have a need to save, to be heard, to have a cause acknowledged. She keeps to her self... she knows boundries, recognizes territories, she values Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    I honestly think the woman in the OP is NOT ESE. ESE's care about manners.
    ESE also bitch about manners...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Oh. No. I think warrior-librarian may be Fi ego block holder not Se Polr. I think she is SEE or ESI because she is careful to say that it's not an obsolute truthe..that black and white behavior of EII.

    (...)
    I based my comment on her self-typing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I based my comment on her self-typing.
    She may be the same type as you, also. She may not be a J type but a P type.

    Bardia just ruled out LSE as a possible option. So yeah, the neighbor is very much ESE; but how about EIE as an option?
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 09:09 PM.

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    My mom feels it is necessary to inform everyone about her opinions. I go back and forth between ESE and ESI for her. I would not think this is something an SEE would do. I don't think this is something I do really unless it is an opinion of a person. I would be much more inclined to be forceful about a negative opinion of someone than a viewpoint on an idea.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
    http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0

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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    I honestly think the woman in the OP is NOT ESE. ESE's care about manners.
    I'd never say a person isn't a type based on one thing or another (like some people tend to do), but I do agree with this point in my own case, there's no way I'd ever come across as rude and crude as this person is. Though, I do know that many people, ESE's included, have been raised very differently than I have.

    In fact, I'm much more like the original poster in the way I handle the things that were mentioned. If I ever told a person to "not eat something on a menu because they should eat this because I said so." then I'd probably kick my own ass...lol.

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    i find creative Se to be more pushy than Se leading. by a large margin.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Oh. No. I think warrior-librarian may be Fi ego block holder not Se Polr. I think she is SEE or ESI because she is careful to say that it's not an obsolute truthe..that black and white behavior of EII.

    She writes "I don't feel a need to broadcast to the whole world everytime I encounter something really good or really bad."

    EII would because of that nature we have but we broadcast to save. You can get a sense of that by reading Fi and Ethics post by Silverchris.

    "What people do with their own time is their own business and as long as they're not harming anyone else, I really don't care."

    EII would care because we have a need to save, to be heard, to have a cause acknowledged. She keeps to her self... she knows boundries, recognizes territories, she values Se.
    When I posted the "could warrior-librarian be an SEE?" thread, I meant that as a joke.

    Respecting boundaries and recognizing territories and the like does not make one an Se valuer.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    This really sounds like it has more to do with values than (mostly about opinions and correctness/incorrectness of them). I know some insecure leading types that do this. Otherwise I would say LSI.

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