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Self Evaluation
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Last edited by Hays; 05-30-2011 at 05:37 AM.
All types evaluate themselves.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Originally Posted by Suzzy
OK I'm gonna try and actually answer the question:
I'm thinking probably all the introverted functions serve for self-evaluation, but of different things--Fi of how one feels emotionally about sthg, Si how one feels physically about sthg or how practical one is, Ti how one is thinking about sthg (logically or not), Ni--honestly dont know about that one
Beyond that the extroverted functions probably also contribute to self-evaluation but in regards to how much one has, rather than what one is--Fe quantity and quality of emotion around one, Se how much power one has, Te how much knowledge one has, Ne how much insight one has of potential, opportunities, and possibilities.
I think the self-evaluation that comes from the extraverted functions ultimately leads to self-criticism via one or more introverted functions.
e.g. I dont know enough (Te); I must not be that smart (Ti). Everyone's so serious (Fe), I must not be friendly enough (Fi).
I think that's the whole premise of the hidden agenda being used to hide the POLR. Both are sore spots, i.e. most subject to self-evaluation. That's why the HA is so sensitive to criticism.
The creative function is also sensitive to criticism, but more because you make it a point to use it, and if someone speaks negatively of that, it's feels unfair and like your essence is being destroyed. So in other words, you self-evaluate to make sure you are using it and using it well, but there is usually no need to self-criticize the creative function.
That's how I see it. So yes, in a word, I have to agree with Maritsa in that all types evaluate themselves. Each one just does it differently and accentuates different things.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Excellent answer.OK I'm gonna try and actually answer the question:
I'm thinking probably all the introverted functions serve for self-evaluation, but of different things--Fi of how one feels emotionally about sthg, Si how one feels physically about sthg or how practical one is, Ti how one is thinking about sthg (logically or not), Ni--honestly dont know about that one
Beyond that the extroverted functions probably also contribute to self-evaluation but in regards to how much one has, rather than what one is--Fe quantity and quality of emotion around one, Se how much power one has, Te how much knowledge one has, Ne how much insight one has of potential, opportunities, and possibilities.
I think the self-evaluation that comes from the extraverted functions ultimately leads to self-criticism via one or more introverted functions.
e.g. I dont know enough (Te); I must not be that smart (Ti). Everyone's so serious (Fe), I must not be friendly enough (Fi).
I think that's the whole premise of the hidden agenda being used to hide the POLR. Both are sore spots, i.e. most subject to self-evaluation. That's why the HA is so sensitive to criticism.
The creative function is also sensitive to criticism, but more because you make it a point to use it, and if someone speaks negatively of that, it's feels unfair and like your essence is being destroyed. So in other words, you self-evaluate to make sure you are using it and using it well, but there is usually no need to self-criticize the creative function.
That's how I see it. So yes, in a word, I have to agree with Maritsa in that all types evaluate themselves. Each one just does it differently and accentuates different things.
However, 'self-evaluation' can be taken from another angle - ie, what type would be more prone to doing this on a continual basis - continuous self-reflection and self-evaluation. In MBTI theory, for example, the Idealists, in particular INFPs are recognized as having this habit. In general, I think the socionics NFs do as well. I'm leaning towards INFjs do this more than the others, giving continuous consideration to themselves and how they relate within various ethical relationships, using Ti and over analyzing situations. If it spirals out of control, it could lead to potential depression. [/opinion]
Suzzy,
Please talk about your feelings, do you react to things more impulsively by feelings or by well thought out emotions?
In a bad mood, do you have to eat right away or can you wait a long time? how does your hunger and mood correlate to one another?
In a romantic relationship:
Do you wait until you have feelings for someone until you pursue the relationship/person?
Or
Do you wait until you are enveloped by feelings from the individual until you pursue the relationship/person?
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-18-2010 at 11:42 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Please don't hold on to resentments honey. I know how I was wrong and I am trying to work on it....I love you no matter what letters you settle on having.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
maybe you're a lesbian.Please don't hold on to resentments honey. I know how I was wrong and I am trying to work on it....I love you no matter what letters you settle on having.
Ni.
ESFJ, and ESTJ.
You should just ignore her. She's not worth your time. She's just trying to tie you up into her perverted systems that don't work properly cos she needs her "dual".
I generally, agree.OK I'm gonna try and actually answer the question:
I'm thinking probably all the introverted functions serve for self-evaluation, but of different things--Fi of how one feels emotionally about sthg, Si how one feels physically about sthg or how practical one is, Ti how one is thinking about sthg (logically or not), Ni--honestly dont know about that one
For Ni, how about, how one relates to the symbolic reality.
For Si, how one relates to the concrete reality.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
That's pretty condescending Maritsa.Please don't hold on to resentments honey. I know how I was wrong and I am trying to work on it....I love you no matter what letters you settle on having.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
probably NF types, it depends on what you mean t hough
LOL I was thinking that perhaps Maritsa deserves her own thread in the Alternative Socionics theories section. So, both of us would be SEE's in the Maritsa System.
However, only Maritsa knows the Maritsa System, there is no clear method to it. It is being revealed to us one nonsensical post at a time.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I think it's because he's SLE
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Ni is about how thinsg come to be, and where they go to. It holds both the past and the future. Which gives a kind of timeline, and a tracking of different states etc. Which helps with introspection to see "how someone came to be", and "where they will be", which helps understand what kind of person they are.
and you're a whore cos you're enfpI think it's because he's SLE
Se HA to make an impact? to be noticed? might be the type most likely to self-evaluate
Look at your PoLR; that's a good start.Hi Mercutio would you mind expanding on why you think Ni is most linked to self evaluation.
Too late, lol, I am an SEE in the perverted system.
For Se PoLR, even since I was a child I observed that I could not get people to do what I asked and wanted them to, I would talk to them but when I requested certain things I felt like a wall between the individual and I came down, the reason why I say this is that all of a sudden, after the request, the person's eyes looked away from me, as if they lost sudden interest in what I was requesting. These requests were not big ones, they were very ordinary, simple ones...like "Could you take out that for me, or this?" I have NEVER in my life, been able to effectively get someone to do something. It's been a difficult struggle and it stresses me out because I feel that my voice gets shut off upon anything I say that has a request in it. When I am very frustrated because my voice isn't being heard and acknowledged I start acting very strangely, looking like I am being pushy with words, giving a direct attitude when these things have nothing to do with the way I feel for the individual. My feelings for people in my Se PolR displayed attitude never change. Infact, my feelings in general about people never change. I am very good about establishing how I feel about people instantly and then moving forward.
You are mom correct? Did you ever ask your kids to do something and they did not?
Well, imagine me, in your position where I couldn't ask/get my kids to do something I requested from having this Se PoLR?
I am looking for very difficult days ahead.
What perverted system is this that you speak about?
SEE are not perverted.
I don't, ever, never, ever dump people anywhere. There are healty and unhealthy individuals of every kind. One of my EII friends is very unhealthy now and is a pain to deal with, unfortunately. Plus, how often do I say how many very loving SEE friends I have? All the time. I asked two to sign on to the forum just to say hi and hello, but they are very busy.I think maybe those who annoy Maritsa the most get dumped into her SEE grouping.
I helped to raise three of my cousins kids who are all SEE, how can I hate them and how can I hate you? I do not. I hate the system that has put so much negative emphasis on SEE being "forceful", "rude", "perverted", whatever....
I see positive potential in individuals and I work with them to help them reach ideals. That's me.
You might be asking how I helped raise three SEE kids, to that I respond, I did not have them full time and if I couldn't get them to do something. I called in the "guns" my sister and my cousin. Otherwise, I reason with people.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 04:59 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
what do you give in return martisa? it's all very well you wanting thigns.. but when you have nothing to give... well what's to gain for the other person?
What do I give in return for what?
I give love, care, nurturing, writing, art, fun, intellectual mastu...., I give Ne planning,
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
no-one wants that shit. people like money. people like pleasure.
love is an illusion.
no-one wants "care"
nuturing is what you do to infants.
writing is for yourself.
art doesn't make people want to do things.
fun... you're not fun.. you're dull..
I think you have to learn to hook people. Try to see them as fish. Hold back a little... Wait for the moment and reel them in. And if the line snaps, go have sex with hitta or something. He wants your ass.
Well they will have to get it somewhere else if that is all that's important to them in life; but family and kids and community, the world without people is just a lonely and desolate place.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
For Se PoLR, even since I was a child I observed that I could not get people to do what I asked and wanted them to, I would talk to them but when I requested certain things I felt like a wall between the individual and I came down, the reason why I say this is that all of a sudden, after the request, the person's eyes looked away from me, as if they lost sudden interest in what I was requesting. These requests were not big ones, they were very ordinary, simple ones...like "Could you take out that for me, or this?" I have NEVER in my life, been able to effectively get someone to do something. It's been a difficult struggle and it stresses me out because I feel that my voice gets shut off upon anything I say that has a request in it. When I am very frustrated because my voice isn't being heard and acknowledged I start acting very strangely, looking like I am being pushy with words, giving a direct attitude when these things have nothing to do with the way I feel for the individual. My feelings for people in my Se PolR displayed attitude never change. Infact, my feelings in general about people never change. I am very good about establishing how I feel about people instantly and then moving forward.^ classic EII-SLE interaction.what do you give in return martisa? it's all very well you wanting thigns.. but when you have nothing to give... well what's to gain for the other person?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Really? What do you see in it...could you please try to describe it?
What I see in it is my display of my vulnerability and his inclination not to respond to it but rather to use his Se to get me to toughen up and face reality...when what I really want from him is support?
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-20-2010 at 01:25 AM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
whoa, cool down. . .My point was that you're highly Ni-valuing as an SLE, so that's your perspective. Ni self-evaluation is what you admire.
My comment wasn't meant to be an insult!
sooooo defensive, man. . .
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Yes, someone does.
Now be more careful with your absolute statements.
What you describe here is a fairly common-
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
you're way too fucking expressive. step it down a notch. and stop thinking that everything i do is because of my dual. i hardly even talk to my duals.whoa, cool down. . .My point was that you're highly Ni-valuing as an SLE, so that's your perspective. Ni self-evaluation is what you admire.
My comment wasn't meant to be an insult!
sooooo defensive, man. . .
what's the matter? you don't wanna be identicals with marista?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Shut your trap, you anti-social retard!
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
My job here is not to please you.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I was referring to what you quoted more so, as in that really isn't an Se reply by mercutio, he simply asked a question
In terms of what Maritsa posted I didn't see it as Se PoLR but weak Se in general
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
actually it's a great reflection of Se...which is tuned in to what people want, and is ready to negotiate. the art of negotiation is a hallmark of SLE. i'm surprised you don't see that.
at times, we get a bit one dimensional about the IM's. Se isn't only about power and force. it's about the ability to accurately assess where people are at, what motivates them, and how to move them towards what you want. this takes finesse, not force.
to me, maritsa's example of trying to get people to do stuff reflects very weak Se. by contrast, mercutio's question reveals exactly the flaw in maritsa's approach.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I agree with you
Again, I agree but the statement/question didn't really show an obvious example of PoLR but rather it was more pointing out a weakness in an IE in generalby contrast, mercutio's question reveals exactly the flaw in maritsa's approach.
Sort of like how, say, an ILI is weak in Se and will admit so but that doesn't mean it's their PoLR
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Weak and valued Se or weak and unvalued Se?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
maritsa says she's EII and we agree that mercutio is SLE. i suppose i usually will believe people about their type, since our ability to accurately type on line is pretty limited.Again, I agree but the statement/question didn't really show an obvious example of PoLR but rather it was more pointing out a weakness in an IE in general
Sort of like how, say, an ILI is weak in Se and will admit so but that doesn't mean it's their PoLR
i would say weak and unvalued since she doesn't really understand it and doesn't show it much respect in the way she tries to use it.Weak and valued Se or weak and unvalued Se?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I am EII and with Se's I do display that Se PoLR interaction.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Thank you. I am amazed at your
It makes me want to cry, that after all the months I have been here that you, well there were a few others as well, who saw me.
There aren't enough words to describe you.Yes, someone does.
Now be more careful with your absolute statements.
What you describe here is a fairly common
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
good question Mariella.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Per Blaze over the PM
complexity vs simplicity.
feelings vs needs.
Fi vs Ti.
Ne vs Se.
interworkings of self vs outerworkings with others.
@ Brilliand
Smarty pants.
I try to tell people often what I see and wish that they can find the link between and put words to the picture too.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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