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    Default Self Evaluation

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    Last edited by Shay; 05-30-2011 at 06:37 AM.

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    All types evaluate themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    What function is linked to self evaluation and which type is least skilled in the ability?
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    All types evaluate themselves.
    OK I'm gonna try and actually answer the question:

    I'm thinking probably all the introverted functions serve for self-evaluation, but of different things--Fi of how one feels emotionally about sthg, Si how one feels physically about sthg or how practical one is, Ti how one is thinking about sthg (logically or not), Ni--honestly dont know about that one

    Beyond that the extroverted functions probably also contribute to self-evaluation but in regards to how much one has, rather than what one is--Fe quantity and quality of emotion around one, Se how much power one has, Te how much knowledge one has, Ne how much insight one has of potential, opportunities, and possibilities.

    I think the self-evaluation that comes from the extraverted functions ultimately leads to self-criticism via one or more introverted functions.

    e.g. I dont know enough (Te); I must not be that smart (Ti). Everyone's so serious (Fe), I must not be friendly enough (Fi).

    I think that's the whole premise of the hidden agenda being used to hide the POLR. Both are sore spots, i.e. most subject to self-evaluation. That's why the HA is so sensitive to criticism.

    The creative function is also sensitive to criticism, but more because you make it a point to use it, and if someone speaks negatively of that, it's feels unfair and like your essence is being destroyed. So in other words, you self-evaluate to make sure you are using it and using it well, but there is usually no need to self-criticize the creative function.


    That's how I see it. So yes, in a word, I have to agree with Maritsa in that all types evaluate themselves. Each one just does it differently and accentuates different things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    OK I'm gonna try and actually answer the question:

    I'm thinking probably all the introverted functions serve for self-evaluation, but of different things--Fi of how one feels emotionally about sthg, Si how one feels physically about sthg or how practical one is, Ti how one is thinking about sthg (logically or not), Ni--honestly dont know about that one

    Beyond that the extroverted functions probably also contribute to self-evaluation but in regards to how much one has, rather than what one is--Fe quantity and quality of emotion around one, Se how much power one has, Te how much knowledge one has, Ne how much insight one has of potential, opportunities, and possibilities.

    I think the self-evaluation that comes from the extraverted functions ultimately leads to self-criticism via one or more introverted functions.

    e.g. I dont know enough (Te); I must not be that smart (Ti). Everyone's so serious (Fe), I must not be friendly enough (Fi).

    I think that's the whole premise of the hidden agenda being used to hide the POLR. Both are sore spots, i.e. most subject to self-evaluation. That's why the HA is so sensitive to criticism.

    The creative function is also sensitive to criticism, but more because you make it a point to use it, and if someone speaks negatively of that, it's feels unfair and like your essence is being destroyed. So in other words, you self-evaluate to make sure you are using it and using it well, but there is usually no need to self-criticize the creative function.


    That's how I see it. So yes, in a word, I have to agree with Maritsa in that all types evaluate themselves. Each one just does it differently and accentuates different things.
    Excellent answer.


    However, 'self-evaluation' can be taken from another angle - ie, what type would be more prone to doing this on a continual basis - continuous self-reflection and self-evaluation. In MBTI theory, for example, the Idealists, in particular INFPs are recognized as having this habit. In general, I think the socionics NFs do as well. I'm leaning towards INFjs do this more than the others, giving continuous consideration to themselves and how they relate within various ethical relationships, using Ti and over analyzing situations. If it spirals out of control, it could lead to potential depression. [/opinion]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Thanks WorkaholicsAnon for explaining how you view self evaluation in regards to the functions. I had spent a lot of yesterday trying to work out if any one function was better at self evaluation than another and couldn't find an answer.

    I found this paragraph that you wrote to be particularly good.




    I see that you get the angle that I am leaning towards. As what started all of this thinking off was when I had mentioned to my husband a few of the things about him that I like, which he is really good at and that they mostly happen to be things that I myself am not good at. Well he sat through nearly an entire movie after we had talked then turned around and said " The things I have liked about you from the day I met you and why I chose you above everyone else is because you are '... & ... & ...' and perhaps most of all. Yes definately most of all, that you can self evaluate with amazing ease and I can't - I am useless at it.
    Suzzy,

    Please talk about your feelings, do you react to things more impulsively by feelings or by well thought out emotions?

    In a bad mood, do you have to eat right away or can you wait a long time? how does your hunger and mood correlate to one another?

    In a romantic relationship:
    Do you wait until you have feelings for someone until you pursue the relationship/person?
    Or
    Do you wait until you are enveloped by feelings from the individual until you pursue the relationship/person?
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 12:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Sorry Maritsa, I do not wish to engage in a long dialogue with you about such things as my feelings as I do not feel that you are capable of being non judgmental about me.
    Please don't hold on to resentments honey. I know how I was wrong and I am trying to work on it....I love you no matter what letters you settle on having.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Please don't hold on to resentments honey. I know how I was wrong and I am trying to work on it....I love you no matter what letters you settle on having.
    maybe you're a lesbian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    What function is linked to self evaluation and which type is least skilled in the ability?
    Ni.

    ESFJ, and ESTJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    This is not about holding onto resentments. I in fact feel that the interaction between you and I has slightly improved even if it is a bit more formal like as I am all for improvement. I just do not wish to engage in a dialogue where it is pretty much predetermined by yourself that you are EII/INFj and if I am not exactly like you so I am not and you think I am SEE/ESFp though I am not and it's all about proving these things.

    Why do I think and feel like this? Because once again I logged onto this site this morning and browsed a thread I hadn't read yet and there you are saying again that I am SEE/ESFp (post 48 & 51).
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ingeyes-3.html
    You should just ignore her. She's not worth your time. She's just trying to tie you up into her perverted systems that don't work properly cos she needs her "dual".

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    OK I'm gonna try and actually answer the question:

    I'm thinking probably all the introverted functions serve for self-evaluation, but of different things--Fi of how one feels emotionally about sthg, Si how one feels physically about sthg or how practical one is, Ti how one is thinking about sthg (logically or not), Ni--honestly dont know about that one
    I generally, agree.

    For Ni, how about, how one relates to the symbolic reality.
    For Si, how one relates to the concrete reality.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Please don't hold on to resentments honey. I know how I was wrong and I am trying to work on it....I love you no matter what letters you settle on having.
    That's pretty condescending Maritsa.
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    probably NF types, it depends on what you mean t hough
    INTp

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    LOL I was thinking that perhaps Maritsa deserves her own thread in the Alternative Socionics theories section. So, both of us would be SEE's in the Maritsa System.

    However, only Maritsa knows the Maritsa System, there is no clear method to it. It is being revealed to us one nonsensical post at a time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Hi Mercutio would you mind expanding on why you think Ni is most linked to self evaluation.
    I think it's because he's SLE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Hi Mercutio would you mind expanding on why you think Ni is most linked to self evaluation.
    Ni is about how thinsg come to be, and where they go to. It holds both the past and the future. Which gives a kind of timeline, and a tracking of different states etc. Which helps with introspection to see "how someone came to be", and "where they will be", which helps understand what kind of person they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I think it's because he's SLE
    and you're a whore cos you're enfp

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    Se HA to make an impact? to be noticed? might be the type most likely to self-evaluate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Hi Mercutio would you mind expanding on why you think Ni is most linked to self evaluation.



    Too late, lol, I am an SEE in the perverted system .
    Look at your PoLR; that's a good start.

    For Se PoLR, even since I was a child I observed that I could not get people to do what I asked and wanted them to, I would talk to them but when I requested certain things I felt like a wall between the individual and I came down, the reason why I say this is that all of a sudden, after the request, the person's eyes looked away from me, as if they lost sudden interest in what I was requesting. These requests were not big ones, they were very ordinary, simple ones...like "Could you take out that for me, or this?" I have NEVER in my life, been able to effectively get someone to do something. It's been a difficult struggle and it stresses me out because I feel that my voice gets shut off upon anything I say that has a request in it. When I am very frustrated because my voice isn't being heard and acknowledged I start acting very strangely, looking like I am being pushy with words, giving a direct attitude when these things have nothing to do with the way I feel for the individual. My feelings for people in my Se PolR displayed attitude never change. Infact, my feelings in general about people never change. I am very good about establishing how I feel about people instantly and then moving forward.

    You are mom correct? Did you ever ask your kids to do something and they did not?
    Well, imagine me, in your position where I couldn't ask/get my kids to do something I requested from having this Se PoLR?
    I am looking for very difficult days ahead.

    What perverted system is this that you speak about?
    SEE are not perverted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    I think maybe those who annoy Maritsa the most get dumped into her SEE grouping .
    I don't, ever, never, ever dump people anywhere. There are healty and unhealthy individuals of every kind. One of my EII friends is very unhealthy now and is a pain to deal with, unfortunately. Plus, how often do I say how many very loving SEE friends I have? All the time. I asked two to sign on to the forum just to say hi and hello, but they are very busy.

    I helped to raise three of my cousins kids who are all SEE, how can I hate them and how can I hate you? I do not. I hate the system that has put so much negative emphasis on SEE being "forceful", "rude", "perverted", whatever....

    I see positive potential in individuals and I work with them to help them reach ideals. That's me.

    You might be asking how I helped raise three SEE kids, to that I respond, I did not have them full time and if I couldn't get them to do something. I called in the "guns" my sister and my cousin. Otherwise, I reason with people.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-19-2010 at 05:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Look at your PoLR; that's a good start.

    For Se PoLR, even since I was a child I observed that I could not get people to do what I asked and wanted them to, I would talk to them but when I requested certain things I felt like a wall between the individual and I came down, the reason why I say this is that all of a sudden, after the request, the person's eyes looked away from me, as if they lost sudden interest in what I was requesting. These requests were not big ones, they were very ordinary, simple ones...like "Could you take out that for me, or this?" I have NEVER in my life, been able to effectively get someone to do something. It's been a difficult struggle and it stresses me out because I feel that my voice gets shut off upon anything I say that has a request in it. When I am very frustrated because my voice isn't being heard and acknowledged I start acting very strangely, looking like I am being pushy with words, giving a direct attitude when these things have nothing to do with the way I feel for the individual. My feelings for people in my Se PolR displayed attitude never change. Infact, my feelings in general about people never change. I am very good about establishing how I feel about people instantly and then moving forward.
    what do you give in return martisa? it's all very well you wanting thigns.. but when you have nothing to give... well what's to gain for the other person?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    what do you give in return martisa? it's all very well you wanting thigns.. but when you have nothing to give... well what's to gain for the other person?
    What do I give in return for what?
    I give love, care, nurturing, writing, art, fun, intellectual mastu...., I give Ne planning,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What do I give in return for what?
    I give love, care, nurturing, writing, art, fun, intellectual mastu...., I give Ne planning,
    no-one wants that shit. people like money. people like pleasure.

    love is an illusion.

    no-one wants "care"

    nuturing is what you do to infants.

    writing is for yourself.

    art doesn't make people want to do things.

    fun... you're not fun.. you're dull..

    I think you have to learn to hook people. Try to see them as fish. Hold back a little... Wait for the moment and reel them in. And if the line snaps, go have sex with hitta or something. He wants your ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    no-one wants that shit. people like money. people like pleasure.

    love is an illusion.

    no-one wants "care"

    nuturing is what you do to infants.

    writing is for yourself.

    art doesn't make people want to do things.

    fun... you're not fun.. you're dull..

    I think you have to learn to hook people. Try to see them as fish. Hold back a little... Wait for the moment and reel them in. And if the line snaps, go have sex with hitta or something. He wants your ass.
    Well they will have to get it somewhere else if that is all that's important to them in life; but family and kids and community, the world without people is just a lonely and desolate place.

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    For Se PoLR, even since I was a child I observed that I could not get people to do what I asked and wanted them to, I would talk to them but when I requested certain things I felt like a wall between the individual and I came down, the reason why I say this is that all of a sudden, after the request, the person's eyes looked away from me, as if they lost sudden interest in what I was requesting. These requests were not big ones, they were very ordinary, simple ones...like "Could you take out that for me, or this?" I have NEVER in my life, been able to effectively get someone to do something. It's been a difficult struggle and it stresses me out because I feel that my voice gets shut off upon anything I say that has a request in it. When I am very frustrated because my voice isn't being heard and acknowledged I start acting very strangely, looking like I am being pushy with words, giving a direct attitude when these things have nothing to do with the way I feel for the individual. My feelings for people in my Se PolR displayed attitude never change. Infact, my feelings in general about people never change. I am very good about establishing how I feel about people instantly and then moving forward.
    what do you give in return martisa? it's all very well you wanting thigns.. but when you have nothing to give... well what's to gain for the other person?
    ^ classic EII-SLE interaction.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    ^ classic EII-SLE interaction.
    Really? What do you see in it...could you please try to describe it?
    What I see in it is my display of my vulnerability and his inclination not to respond to it but rather to use his Se to get me to toughen up and face reality...when what I really want from him is support?
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-20-2010 at 02:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    and you're a whore cos you're enfp
    whoa, cool down. . .My point was that you're highly Ni-valuing as an SLE, so that's your perspective. Ni self-evaluation is what you admire.

    My comment wasn't meant to be an insult!

    sooooo defensive, man. . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    ^ classic EII-SLE interaction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    no-one wants that shit.
    Yes, someone does.

    Now be more careful with your absolute statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Really? What do you see in it...could you please try to describe it?
    What I see in it is my display of my vulnerability and his inclination not to respond to it but rather to use his Se to get me to toughen up and face reality...when what I really want from him is support?
    What you describe here is a fairly common - interaction, of the sort where the is in the better position. Though, I'd be careful about saying that his view is "reality"...



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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    whoa, cool down. . .My point was that you're highly Ni-valuing as an SLE, so that's your perspective. Ni self-evaluation is what you admire.

    My comment wasn't meant to be an insult!

    sooooo defensive, man. . .
    you're way too fucking expressive. step it down a notch. and stop thinking that everything i do is because of my dual. i hardly even talk to my duals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    what's the matter? you don't wanna be identicals with marista?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    you're way too fucking expressive. step it down a notch. and stop thinking that everything i do is because of my dual. i hardly even talk to my duals.
    Shut your trap, you anti-social retard!
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    you're way too fucking expressive. step it down a notch. and stop thinking that everything i do is because of my dual. i hardly even talk to my duals.
    My job here is not to please you. If you dont like the way I express myself, ignore me. All socionic behaviors have a role in the world. You can't make IEEs disappear just because you dont like the way they come across to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    what's the matter? you don't wanna be identicals with marista?
    I was referring to what you quoted more so, as in that really isn't an Se reply by mercutio, he simply asked a question
    In terms of what Maritsa posted I didn't see it as Se PoLR but weak Se in general
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I was referring to what you quoted more so, as in that really isn't an Se reply by mercutio, he simply asked a question
    In terms of what Maritsa posted I didn't see it as Se PoLR but weak Se in general
    actually it's a great reflection of Se...which is tuned in to what people want, and is ready to negotiate. the art of negotiation is a hallmark of SLE. i'm surprised you don't see that.

    at times, we get a bit one dimensional about the IM's. Se isn't only about power and force. it's about the ability to accurately assess where people are at, what motivates them, and how to move them towards what you want. this takes finesse, not force.

    to me, maritsa's example of trying to get people to do stuff reflects very weak Se. by contrast, mercutio's question reveals exactly the flaw in maritsa's approach.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    actually it's a great reflection of Se...which is tuned in to what people want, and is ready to negotiate. the art of negotiation is a hallmark of SLE. i'm surprised you don't see that.

    at times, we get a bit one dimensional about the IM's. Se isn't only about power and force. it's about the ability to accurately assess where people are at, what motivates them, and how to move them towards what you want. this takes finesse, not force.

    to me, maritsa's example of trying to get people to do stuff reflects very weak Se.
    I agree with you

    by contrast, mercutio's question reveals exactly the flaw in maritsa's approach.
    Again, I agree but the statement/question didn't really show an obvious example of PoLR but rather it was more pointing out a weakness in an IE in general
    Sort of like how, say, an ILI is weak in Se and will admit so but that doesn't mean it's their PoLR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    actually it's a great reflection of Se...which is tuned in to what people want, and is ready to negotiate. the art of negotiation is a hallmark of SLE. i'm surprised you don't see that.

    at times, we get a bit one dimensional about the IM's. Se isn't only about power and force. it's about the ability to accurately assess where people are at, what motivates them, and how to move them towards what you want. this takes finesse, not force.

    to me, maritsa's example of trying to get people to do stuff reflects very weak Se. by contrast, mercutio's question reveals exactly the flaw in maritsa's approach.
    Weak and valued Se or weak and unvalued Se?
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    Again, I agree but the statement/question didn't really show an obvious example of PoLR but rather it was more pointing out a weakness in an IE in general
    Sort of like how, say, an ILI is weak in Se and will admit so but that doesn't mean it's their PoLR
    maritsa says she's EII and we agree that mercutio is SLE. i suppose i usually will believe people about their type, since our ability to accurately type on line is pretty limited.

    Weak and valued Se or weak and unvalued Se?
    i would say weak and unvalued since she doesn't really understand it and doesn't show it much respect in the way she tries to use it.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I was referring to what you quoted more so, as in that really isn't an Se reply by mercutio, he simply asked a question
    In terms of what Maritsa posted I didn't see it as Se PoLR but weak Se in general
    I am EII and with Se's I do display that Se PoLR interaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    actually it's a great reflection of Se...which is tuned in to what people want, and is ready to negotiate. the art of negotiation is a hallmark of SLE. i'm surprised you don't see that.

    at times, we get a bit one dimensional about the IM's. Se isn't only about power and force. it's about the ability to accurately assess where people are at, what motivates them, and how to move them towards what you want. this takes finesse, not force.

    to me, maritsa's example of trying to get people to do stuff reflects very weak Se. by contrast, mercutio's question reveals exactly the flaw in maritsa's approach.
    Thank you. I am amazed at your
    It makes me want to cry, that after all the months I have been here that you, well there were a few others as well, who saw me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Yes, someone does.

    Now be more careful with your absolute statements.



    What you describe here is a fairly common - interaction, of the sort where the is in the better position. Though, I'd be careful about saying that his view is "reality"...
    There aren't enough words to describe you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Weak and valued Se or weak and unvalued Se?
    good question Mariella.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    good question Mariella.
    Per Blaze over the PM

    complexity vs simplicity.

    feelings vs needs.

    Fi vs Ti.

    Ne vs Se.

    interworkings of self vs outerworkings with others.

    @ Brilliand

    Smarty pants.

    I try to tell people often what I see and wish that they can find the link between and put words to the picture too.

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