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Thread: Could I really be an EII instead of an LII?

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    Default Could I really be an EII instead of an LII?

    A certain member on this forum seems to think I'm not really an alpha. The only non-alpha types I've ever even remotely considered were EII and ILI. Of these two EII would be more likely.

    Discuss.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    A certain member on this forum seems to think I'm not really an alpha. The only non-alpha types I've ever even remotely considered were EII and ILI. Of these two EII would be more likely.

    Discuss.
    Are you an extreme humanitarian? Would you forgive people for the utmost wrongdoing? Do you readily give guidence to kids/people/adults to not say certain things like don't curse or don't be mean to people and help guide people to walk an idealistic strait line (so to say)? Do you never ignor people? Do you keep strict principles for yourself on the way not only how you should opperate in the world but how everyone else should also? Do you have optimistic hope for the future?

    I would agree with Mariella, because EII can not remove themselves from people and apply cold logic. Not being around people on a very regular basis depresses me.

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    I worked through college at a library, and I've volunteered heavily at my daughter's school library. Most librarians I've known have been LSI or LII, and I don't think that's surprising. It obviously isn't impossible for an EII to be a librarian, but I think that would point toward a type stronger in and more interested in Ti. Particularly if you work more in classification and less in, say, children's storytelling. I knew an ESE librarian who was mainly interested in children's storytelling, which made me think of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    Okay, Maritsa, NO. INFj's have a moral limit you can't cross or that's it (granted it is defined by THEM and not society). INFj's are not quite that forgiving...
    Yes, we truly are.
    That's why we make terrible judges but great lawyers. We would hate to rule out a sentence that would land a potentially innocent person to jail or fine, but we love to debate a situation till the cows come home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    Just because INFj's would hate to rule out a sentence that would land a potentially innocent person in jail/fine doesn't mean INFj's are that forgiving (I would also hate to do this).

    But the key word there is INNOCENT. If an INFj internally decides someone crossed their moral line and therefore are not innocent, they can judge them and cut them off.
    Ne prevents us from cutting people off. I guilty person may be guilty but you never know what shoes they wore and what circumstances led them there. So empathy first and no cutting off.

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    It does take a LOT more for me to feel at all confident that someone is guilty and deserves jail than it takes most people. A LOT more. I agree with that. But for me, and EIIs I know, it can certainly happen that people are "cut off". So there's truth to what she's saying, but she is so black/white in her thinking that she takes it too far.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    It does take a LOT more for me to feel at all confident that someone is guilty and deserves jail than it takes most people. A LOT more. I agree with that. But for me, and EIIs I know, it can certainly happen that people are "cut off". So there's truth to what she's saying, but she is so black/white in her thinking that she takes it too far.
    How many people have you cut off? I have not cut off any one and probably can name great many that other individuals would have, some very easily. And I am 31, and have not cut off anyone, because I have not encountered a person who has done too much to be cut off. Because of the positive potential in people, I can't find a reason to cut people off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    It does take a LOT more for me to feel at all confident that someone is guilty and deserves jail than it takes most people. A LOT more. I agree with that. But for me, and EIIs I know, it can certainly happen that people are "cut off". So there's truth to what she's saying, but she is so black/white in her thinking that she takes it too far.
    Beta: too judgmental ( + "some people need to be put in their place")
    Delta: too anti-judgmental ( + "everyone has some positive potential")

    Just a thought.

    @warrior-librarian - I know you probably read all there is and more about quadra values, but how do you feel about wikisocion descriptions of how Alpha and Delta perceive other quadras? At this point it seems to be down to Ti/Fe vs Te/Fi valuing, and I don't think merry/serious will be useful in typing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    How many people have you cut off? I have not cut off any one and probably can name great many that other individuals would have, some very easily. And I am 31, and have not cut off anyone, because I have not encountered a person who has done too much to be cut off.
    Depends on what you mean by "cut off". People I am no longer in contact with because they pissed me off badly enough? Maybe 2 or 3. I'm 40, so that's over a pretty long period of time.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    Depends on what you mean by "cut off". People I am no longer in contact with because they pissed me off badly enough? Maybe 2 or 3. I'm 40, so that's over a pretty long period of time.
    That is. I have not cut off anyone "yet". By cut off we mean, you don't want to ever speak to them again, kinda like castrate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    Well I have heard threats from both EII's and LSE's that if so and so does such and such, then "that's it" -- but maybe they don't actually go through with it?

    Huh.
    Yeah, maybe. Talk is cheap....lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VixenDogFox View Post
    Well I have heard threats from both EII's and LSE's that if so and so does such and such, then "that's it" -- but maybe they don't actually go through with it?

    Huh.
    I've heard a lot of SEEs and ESIs say that, seems very common from what I've seen, so it might be that the people are mistyped. But yeah, it's a lot easier to say that than do it, so that's another possibility. It is hard for me to make ultimatiums like that. In fact, my weak Se causes me to not make ultimatiums like that at all. If I do cut someone off, I more slink away with no discussion. Like I stop returning phone calls and avoid them until they give up. If they're making ultimatiums a lot, and particularly if they're communicating those ultimatiums to the other people involved, I'd go with ESI over EII.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I've heard a lot of SEEs and ESIs say that, seems very common from what I've seen, so it might be that the people are mistyped. But yeah, it's a lot easier to say that than do it, so that's another possibility. It is hard for me to make ultimatiums like that. In fact, my weak Se causes me to not make ultimatiums like that at all. If I do cut someone off, I more slink away with no discussion. Like I stop returning phone calls and avoid them until they give up. If they're making ultimatiums a lot, and particularly if they're communicating those ultimatiums to the other people involved, I'd go with ESI over EII.
    I hate to make ultimatums. I don't make them at all. My feeling is is that you're using prior experiance of mistyped people to evaluate me when I am a lot like you are.

    FiNe is such that Fi will get evaluated as Ne comes in the door.
    NeFi is such that Ne will get evaluated as Fi comes in the door.

    We are mirrors.

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    Only in response to the OP, how about looking at and solely in the leading function (and momentarily ignoring the rest) and seeing which works more for you? A type conducts relationships assuming observance of their lead IE is a given, and doesn't pay much mind to the process of recognizing it or helping another person recognize it. It the information that in the back of your mind, when someone makes light of their weakness of it, you might think something along the lines of "How do you not get this?" So, would you see yourself doing this with or ? Along with that, we could also look to your suggestive function, and if or would be there. Both of those are information you also don't directly observe, and tend to feel off in some manner when it's not present, but you aren't naturally able to produce an equilibrium. It's like having a headache and you don't know why, making you grouchy and unpleasant, and then someone points out to you that you haven't eaten all day, and when you do, the headache goes away. I can't say I'm completely confident on how this applies with the IEs in question personally; I have a better grasp on , , , in these roles, most likely because of my type.

    Hopefully this helps out somehow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I hate to make ultimatums. I don't make them at all. My feeling is is that you're using prior experiance of mistyped people to evaluate me when I am a lot like you are.

    FiNe is such that Fi will get evaluated as Ne comes in the door.
    NeFi is such that Ne will get evaluated as Fi comes in the door.

    We are mirrors.
    That wasn't about you.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    That wasn't about you.
    Oh...thank you. I'm sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Are you an extreme humanitarian? Would you forgive people for the utmost wrongdoing? Do you readily give guidence to kids/people/adults to not say certain things like don't curse or don't be mean to people and help guide people to walk an idealistic strait line (so to say)? Do you never ignor people? Do you keep strict principles for yourself on the way not only how you should opperate in the world but how everyone else should also? Do you have optimistic hope for the future?

    I would agree with Mariella, because EII can not remove themselves from people and apply cold logic. Not being around people on a very regular basis depresses me.
    I'm humanitarian, but not in the extreme. Would I forgive someone for the utmost wrongdoing? I really don't know but I do think there are limits as to my forgiveness. I don't really give much guidance to others the way you mention in your examples. No, to the never ignoring people question. I'm attentive to them at first but I'll probably resort to ignoring them if they're being a total asshole.

    Regarding principles, there are certain rules of conduct that I think people should follow. When people step out of line, I can be correcting of that. Also, if people's attitudes are too judgemental or intolerant or differences. This could just be the Fi role function in play as well.

    My view of the future isn't particularly optimistic nor pessimistic. More like hoping for the best but planning for the worst.

    I can go quite a while without being with people and feel okay.

    Okay, what I've said here surely isn't very EII like. However, I can see why people might propose that as a type for me. Both have PoLR, similar temperament, even numbered functions are shared, it's usually one of my top scoring types on socionics tests, ranking just below LII. And LII's of the Ne subtype, like myself, often come across as somewhat EII like. But that doesn't make me EII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I worked through college at a library, and I've volunteered heavily at my daughter's school library. Most librarians I've known have been LSI or LII, and I don't think that's surprising. It obviously isn't impossible for an EII to be a librarian, but I think that would point toward a type stronger in and more interested in Ti. Particularly if you work more in classification and less in, say, children's storytelling. I knew an ESE librarian who was mainly interested in children's storytelling, which made me think of that.
    My biggest interest in librarianship is in the Ti aspects of it. I like analyzing how the information is all organized and trying to make it better organized. When a patron asks a reference question, its like a puzzle for me for solve.

    Once in a while I have to do storytimes when the youth services librarian is absent. I can certaintly pull it off and have been told I do a good job but I certainly don't feel in my element. When doing storytime, us librarians are expected to show alot of emotion. More than I'm really comfortable with. Like, if I'm reading a book about animal sounds and it says the "cow said moo", I can't just say it as it is. I have to go like: "and the cow said MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and make the associated facial expressions and body movements that go along with it. What comes across as enthusiasm to others feels just overdone to me. The cow goes moo, so what, is what I'm thinking. But because the kids and their parents expect storytimes with alot of enthusiasm and emotional embellishment, I'll certainly go that route but I feel out of my element doing so.

    The childrens librarians I know seem to be alpha SF types plus an IEE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Beta: too judgmental ( + "some people need to be put in their place")
    Delta: too anti-judgmental ( + "everyone has some positive potential")

    Just a thought.

    @warrior-librarian - I know you probably read all there is and more about quadra values, but how do you feel about wikisocion descriptions of how Alpha and Delta perceive other quadras? At this point it seems to be down to Ti/Fe vs Te/Fi valuing, and I don't think merry/serious will be useful in typing.
    I think I'm pretty anti-judgemental but I can be judgemental towards others who strike me as being judgemental. I know that sounds like I'm contradicting myself but its kind of the truth. I'm generally of the attitude that everyone has some positive potential and I get rather offended and put off my statements to the contrary. Sometimes I'll confront the people who made these overly judgemental remarks in a rather beta-ST manner as you mentioned.

    I think its this hypersensitivity to judgemental remarks (or even those that merely appear judgemental) that's got people mistyping me as EII. I think most likely, its just another way in which my role Fi manifests itself in the LII type.

    Regarding quadras, I think overall alpha is the best fit but its really a pretty close call. I relate to alot of the delta stuff too. There's no question I'm Si/Ne valuing. The lines are little more blurred with Ti/Fe vs. Fi/Te but I'm more inclined to say I value the former. I sure seem to like the company of alpha SFs alot.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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