Maybe We Aren't Duals

[VixenDogFox]

I don't know.

I can't think of another type that fits him besides INTj and I know what I am.

We understand each other so well in SO many ways... and no one else seems to get or appreciate or value my strengths the way he does.

But now that I think of it, we have had plenty of arguments (although mostly stemming from a problem with addiction that was severe)...

Also, sometimes I take out my frustration about other things by snapping at him (similar to what an ISTp just wrote about his ENFp wife doing). But I always realize my error right away and apologize.

And now this problem that keeps recurring (every several months) where I feel completely overlooked in the bedroom (I won't get anymore specific than that).

Ugh.

I am so sad today.

[redbaron]

hey vixen. Well you never know. you might still be duals. being duals doesn't necessarily mean never any conflict. Depending on the two people, subtypes and other external factors, there might be arguments, etc. The thing about duality is that the arguments are fairly easily navigated and resolved. Also, if you take some time apart and you're duals, you'll find that eventually you'll feel like a part of yourself is missing. you're like flip sides of the same coin. I read in one description that duals can take one another for granted. Then when they're apart they'll be like "where is my dual??" and look around frantically. anyway, I'm sorry you're in a rough spot.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't know.

I can't think of another type that fits him besides INTj and I know what I am.

We understand each other so well in SO many ways... and no one else seems to get or appreciate or value my strengths the way he does.

But now that I think of it, we have had plenty of arguments (although mostly stemming from a problem with addiction that was severe)...

Also, sometimes I take out my frustration about other things by snapping at him (similar to what an ISTp just wrote about his ENFp wife doing). But I always realize my error right away and apologize.

And now this problem that keeps recurring (every several months) where I feel completely overlooked in the bedroom (I won't get anymore specific than that).

Ugh.

I am so sad today.

You are duals, if I confirm that then you can bet it's written in stone.
You just need to find ways to work with him.
You two are wonderful and I know with a little exploration, you can find your ways.
Don't be sad, sweetheart. I hate to see you like this...double hug. Hot chocolate and marshmellows for you.

[Brilliand]

You are duals, if I confirm that then you can bet it's written in stone.

You've no such authority.

[Beautiful sky]

You've no such authority.

I am not giving myself that, I am trying to add assurance that they VI like duals.

[mu4]

I'm not sure if I mentioned it before too much, but I typed him EII when you were typing him before.

It's not my place to comment more then this and I didn't comment before because I am not sure if what I'm saying is correct either, but here goes.

Nervous within the emotional sphere, reserved and distrustful. Desire constant stable relations. Find it difficult to display initiative with contacts, however, this difficulty fades when they are confident with their feelings. Usually restrained in expressing emotions; a loyal partner. Attracted to those that reach for them through pleasant food, comfort, sexual initiative, concern for their health and fulfillment of their requirements. They are unpretentious in their private lives. Afflicted by those that disrupt their rules and installations.

Attentive and internally emotional partners. Willing to take the sexual initiative, but also careful and farsighted. They are inclined to sharp fluctuation in mood and may be inconsistent in their feelings. Erotically are affectionate and tender; aiming for new impression. Intimate relations require more than trust and sincere concern, need variety in sex in order to raise their moods. However, react negatively when others are obtrusive and limit their freedom.

I don't think LII are closed-minded in sexual matters, because it is a act of legitimizing a relationship(Ti/Fe).

The types I've met who have serious problems with what their girlfriend does has been a EXI-Fi that I've met. EXI-Fi was that his girlfriend bit him and he was totally against that, the girl seems some sort of LSE or ESE but could also be LSI.

I think she is with a LII now.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm not sure if I mentioned it before too much, but I typed him EII when you were typing him before.

It's not my place to comment more then this and I didn't comment before because I am not sure if what I'm saying is correct either, but here goes.





I don't think LII are closed-minded in sexual matters, because it is a act of legitimizing a relationship(Ti/Fe).

The types I've met who have serious problems with what their girlfriend does has been a EXI-Fi that I've met. EXI-Fi was that his girlfriend bit him and he was totally against that, the girl seems some sort of LSE or ESE but could also be LSI.

I think she is with a LII now.

I typed them, him ENFp and her ISTp...but I don't want to start a riot; I don't want you to bring your mom into the picture and focus on your relationship with her and what you are saying is supervisory...we will deal with that issue later; but for now, try to ask and gather advice on your problem. Mariella is a good source.

[Airman]

Vixen´s an ISTp ?

[mu4]

I typed them, him ENFp and her ISTp...but I don't want to start a riot; I don't want you to bring your mom into the picture and focus on your relationship with her and what you are saying is supervisory...we will deal with that issue later; but for now, try to ask and gather advice on your problem. Mariella is a good source.

I don't really know their types conclusively. I think they could be any combination or Si/Ne valuing types except maybe ILE and SEI.

For me a type is just another hypothesis until we get some scanning technology.

I should note I take my hypothesis probably pretty seriously.

[redbaron]

I thought Vixen was ESE. I guess I missed that discussion...

[Jarno]

And now this problem that keeps recurring (every several months) where I feel completely overlooked in the bedroom (I won't get anymore specific than that).

I've had the same problem with an SEE.

[Airman]

I don't know.

I can't think of another type that fits him besides INTj and I know what I am.

We understand each other so well in SO many ways... and no one else seems to get or appreciate or value my strengths the way he does.

But now that I think of it, we have had plenty of arguments (although mostly stemming from a problem with addiction that was severe)...

Also, sometimes I take out my frustration about other things by snapping at him (similar to what an ISTp just wrote about his ENFp wife doing). But I always realize my error right away and apologize.

And now this problem that keeps recurring (every several months) where I feel completely overlooked in the bedroom (I won't get anymore specific than that).

Ugh.

I am so sad today.

Well Maritsa told me my advice could be good for you regarding what you can do... I´m new to socionics. she said something about activators I guess. Well... my dear tease him. A guy would always like a woman to give him pleasure. Masturbate while he´s with you. BECOME WILD. I cannot go into more detail here otherwise it´d be rude. But you know...let your sexual instincts flow very clearly and try to satisfy him the way he enjoys most. If after that, he´s still overlooking you, then something has happened and you may want to try another partner. But first do this... become wild in bed. Show him you have a sex drive too. If you´re too shy for this, perhaps drink a little alcohol beforehand. That should do it.
:wink:

[MatthewZ]

Not having arguments isn't part of the duality description. The thing about duals is that arguments seem to have a way of naturally smoothing out. You said you were sure of your type, didn't you? You'd know by now that your type is very emotionally expressive and can have bursts from time to time. That isn't going to change regardless of the type you interact with.

[Brilliand]

I think they could be any combination or Se/Ni valuing types except maybe ILE and SEI.

I suspect you mean Si/Ne... you are talking about Vixen and her boyfriend, right?

[mu4]

I suspect you mean Si/Ne... you are talking about Vixen and her boyfriend, right?

Oh yea, whoops...

[Jarno]

Oh really? Were you in my position or was she?

she was pretty boring in bed. And she acknowledge it too. Strange eh, for an SEE '-)

I think she was kind of selfcounscious about her body or something.

BTW The average ESE-Si seem to be fond of experimenting and are pretty sexually focussed. So they naturally have a problem with finding a partner who can keep up with them.

[Mattie]

First off, you don't have to be duals to have a great relationship. I know plenty of other combinations that are working out, such as a TeSi/SiTe couple, and an SiFe/NiTe one to name some. Socionics shouldn't be used to rate your relationships, but to observe where the ease and conflict might occur. And as others have said in here (and take a look at any NeFi rant in Delta ), duality doesn't mean picture perfect with no problems. You both have different strengths and weaknesses and every once in a while, your tolerance will drop and a clash will happen. And there's typical life stuff that's not type related that causes conflict, one of you could just be having a bad day or there's an insecurity cropping up. If you really want to analyze your relationship, have in mind that you don't have to be duals for it to work and be happy. It isn't important that you're duals, but that you can recognize both of your needs and how they butt up against each other so you can solve interpersonal issues. Either way, I hope everything gets better

[electric sheep]

I'm prone to thinking someone's type is one that has a more favorable relationship with me than they really do, especially when I like them. I thought I had a dual last time, but I think she was my supervisor
of course i had my own type wrong at the time so i think that had something to do with it

The sex was amazing though

[redbaron]

I'm prone to thinking someone's type is one that has a more favorable relationship with me than they really do, especially when I like them. I thought I had a dual last time, but I think she was my supervisor
of course i had my own type wrong at the time so i think that had something to do with it

The sex was amazing though

she must've been IEI. lol

[Airman]

yea no need to be duals... if you only stick with someone if he/she´s your dual then you´re being obsessive about socionics and turning it into some sort of cult which you strictly adhere to. I see people get f-cked up because of this in the enneagram and there´s no dual thing in enneagram...but people want a certain type, like a menu...'i´d like a type 3w2sx/so please'... this is so narrow. you may miss a lot of things.

Vixen, I really understand what you say, but I have to give some reason to your bf... I myself like sex but sometimes it is very tiring and the girl simply cannot reach orgasm even with lots of non-traditional sex, I mean non-penetration sex, oral sex, etc. It´s tiring for us men to be sucking womens genitals, believe me... we are already too tired sometimes and just want to have a very good orgasm with the girl we like a lot.

[redbaron]

Vixen, I really understand what you say, but I have to give some reason to your bf... I myself like sex but sometimes it is very tiring and the girl simply cannot reach orgasm even with lots of non-traditional sex, I mean non-penetration sex, oral sex, etc. It´s tiring for us men to be sucking womens genitals, believe me... we are already too tired sometimes and just want to have a very good orgasm with the girl we like a lot.

wtf? lame. drink some coffee. or try something new. sheesh.

[Beautiful sky]

yea no need to be duals... if you only stick with someone if he/she´s your dual then you´re being obsessive about socionics and turning it into some sort of cult which you strictly adhere to. I see people get f-cked up because of this in the enneagram and there´s no dual thing in enneagram...but people want a certain type, like a menu...'i´d like a type 3w2sx/so please'... this is so narrow. you may miss a lot of things.

My duals think this way that's why they don't choose me...see my frustration?

[Suz]

yea no need to be duals... if you only stick with someone if he/she´s your dual then you´re being obsessive about socionics and turning it into some sort of cult which you strictly adhere to. I see people get f-cked up because of this in the enneagram and there´s no dual thing in enneagram...but people want a certain type, like a menu...'i´d like a type 3w2sx/so please'... this is so narrow. you may miss a lot of things.

Vixen, I really understand what you say, but I have to give some reason to your bf... I myself like sex but sometimes it is very tiring and the girl simply cannot reach orgasm even with lots of non-traditional sex, I mean non-penetration sex, oral sex, etc. It´s tiring for us men to be sucking womens genitals, believe me... we are already too tired sometimes and just want to have a very good orgasm with the girl we like a lot.

Actually Airborne, I'm starting to agree with you. First of all, one can go insane trying to figure out whether they've typed themselves correctly (no, Maritsa is not the gold standard ) . Secondly if you know your type, it can be maddening trying to find your dual and being sure that they are your dual. Thirdly you can miss out on some beautiful relationships if you just limit yourself to your dual. But mostly in this theory that is socionics, my feeling is that you can NEVER be too sure what your true type really is (until maybe AFTER the fact).

In the wise words of the untypeable Mimosa Pudica, dont worry about type, look at how they make you FEEL. Those well spoken words echo ever more loudly in my mind.

[redbaron]

In the wise words of the untypeable Mimosa Pudica, dont worry about type, look at how they make you FEEL. Those well spoken words echo ever more loudly in my mind.

[munenori2]

My duals think this way that's why they don't choose me...see my frustration?

I think humans think this way and you're a bit batty.

[munenori2]

Also, on a more topic related note, I'm not one of those guys that gives a lot of advice. I don't really know the situation. I can't help you out that much. What I can do is say that, Vixendogfox, you pretty much seem like an amazing person. I mean, shit, your name is one step off of being a list of my favorite animals. That and you're pretty much gorgeous.

Now, I'm not going to tell you to ignore Airborne's advice (though yeah, forget Maritsa), maybe that would work. Who knows. But you seem like you care about this guy so just keep on trying. If it doesn't work out, then so be it. The one thing I wouldn't do is tear yourself up about it or go off worrying all the time. I really hope you two can work out this one thing, cause it seems about the only issue you guys have, and I for one kind of sort of like to cling to the idea that duality...means something.

That said, just do what makes you happy and forget theories. :wink:

[Jarno]

frustration is part of duality, it is even written in some russian duality descriptions.

Sometimes people confuse duality with some heavenly perfect relationship created by god or something, while it's just A relationship. With the nice exception that the information and energy exchange is better then in other relationships.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

and tell that LII to use some strong mouthwash before the oral sex because it can be the cause of dangerous funguses. also antibacterial hand lotion etcetc. is this too Si?

[Aiss]

HAHAHA...

Wow. =)

Although sometimes antibacterial anything does harm because it kills the beneficial flora your body has growing on it... :/

That's why he should spit the mouthwash out before.

[FDG]

If he can play the guitar, he should be able to please you. Perhaps you might hint at how there could be a certain "skill transfer" between two of his favorite activities.

[redbaron]

Although sometimes antibacterial anything does harm because it kills the beneficial flora your body has growing on it... :/

I think the same way! And that's why we never get sick at my house cause I don't use that stuff.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I don't know.

I can't think of another type that fits him besides INTj and I know what I am.

We understand each other so well in SO many ways... and no one else seems to get or appreciate or value my strengths the way he does.

But now that I think of it, we have had plenty of arguments (although mostly stemming from a problem with addiction that was severe)...

Also, sometimes I take out my frustration about other things by snapping at him (similar to what an ISTp just wrote about his ENFp wife doing). But I always realize my error right away and apologize.

And now this problem that keeps recurring (every several months) where I feel completely overlooked in the bedroom (I won't get anymore specific than that).

Ugh.

I am so sad today.

I think you need to think less of here, think less of socionics, and just live n' love your boyfriend.

That is, you know you're smart enough to know if it's working, I reckon.

Why put it down to some theory by some woman who in fairness, wasn't that nice looking? heh. Well, y'know, maybes.

OK, I think socioincs has something to it of course, but, here's the thing.. Ashura defined it, and guess what, people are still arguing about things which are probably a stage right behind or close at least to right behind Ashura. I mean if socionics had really advanced then prolly all this could be explained, but it's not, just live n love, ha! (and develop your understanding of 'duality' in your own book, among other things in teh socionics, maybe even in above context, I suppose)? Or is that what your doing? Dunno,... sorry.

Yeah, um sorry if all wrong, my take :-)

And tbh, my take is it's working .. if you're ESFj, you guys ain't that easy to live with it overall, tbf (well, unless you are INTj, and an argument once in occasional metaphorical blue moon doesn't sound that bad, at least from what you say...).

Re bedroom, think I mentioned before that INTj's, even developed ones, are still reticent round subject of sex, even comparison to ENTp's. I'm not sex councillor though, should prolly become one though for sake of socionincs, heh.

[Beautiful sky]

He CAN, already. It's a matter of going the extra mile since he quit drugs. Oh... I'm glad I figured out the problem now after talking about it here, but at the same time I'm embarrassed now for having made these posts. Oh well, what are you gonna do?
Right on, RedBaron.

You should never feel embarased about your feelings and posts; anyone who judges you is a fool....

[Trevor]

Emotional upheavals. Once they're over I feel better, but then really guilty...

Could you please talk a little bit about that? You know, describing the upheavals(maybe there are more types of upheaval), what do you usually do when under their spell, what do you usually say, how do people react (maybe there are more types of reaction you get, how do you react back)? And once they're over, what is it that makes you feel better(maybe there are more things that make you feel better), is it some kind of a insight, or what? And finally, the guilt you use to feel, what does it consist of, why do you feel guilty?

[Jarno]

if you're ESFj, you guys ain't that easy to live with it overall,

aha. I used to think it was mainly a conflict thing that I had with them.

[Creepy-female]

"Ohoho it's fun to make fun of ESFjs they r such easy targetttttz hohoho"...but let's be realistic, how else do we think they are supposed to deal with NTs? Emotional upheaval isn't a party trick for shits and giggles, it's a coping mechanism to get through to NTs. It's like the SFs evolved to be selected for this trait out of biological necessity. You should be happy they developed a way to deal with you. "ESFjs...aint that easy to live with overall"...yeah make fun of them. And I'm sure you'd totally cry if they weren't around.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

"Ohoho it's fun to make fun of ESFjs they r such easy targetttttz hohoho"...but let's be realistic, how else do we think they are supposed to deal with NTs? Some sort of emotional upheaval is practically necessary to get through to them. It's like SFs evolved to be selected for this trait out of biological necessity. "ESFjs...aint that easy to live with overall"...yeah make fun of them. And I'm sure you'd totally cry if they weren't around.

Well, it is based on people i've spoken to, and personal experience from living with one re a girlfriend for about a year, so, dunno, what you're trying to say, I can't shoot experience in the foot, and vixen seemed to concur in a way, so *shrug*?

Re NT's, I dunno, I think INTj's are better to deal with them, from speaking to them and observing them.

Don't get me wrong, ESFj's are great people ime, living with them is just different, and I mean no offence by that, just observation, dunno what your gig is though, lol.

[Creepy-female]

Well, it is based on people i've spoken to, and personal experience from living with one re a girlfriend for about a year, so, dunno, what you're trying to say, I can't shoot experience in the foot, and vixen seemed to concur in a way, so *shrug*?

Re NT's, I dunno, I think INTj's are better to deal with them, from speaking to them and observing them.

Don't get me wrong, ESFj's are great people ime, living with them is just different, and I mean no offence by that, just observation, dunno what your gig is though, lol.

Mine is also an observation, and I wasn't offended, so don't misread my tone please It doesn't really matter in my mind that she is going to smile at your or concur in a way. We already know she is going to do that most of the time, she is nice. It's just not something you dance around or take for granted really. Well it's not as if they aren't taken for granted because they are and that's just the way the world works. But it's not a free pass to make silly comments like you've encompassed the experience of humanity by happening to deal with an ESFj. I know ESFjs are hard to live with, I have experience with them too and want to kill them basically most of the time. But the fact is is that the world needs these people, and theoretically they shouldn't be undervalued by silly little quips, because really if you think about it their approach actually gets the job done and that is worth a whole lot more than some passing noncommitally snide comments. Look at how much they actually accomplish and then tell me your complaints. That is not in an offended tone. Just use your basic reasoning capacities without any emotional attachment and you'll read what I'm saying the way I meant it. That's all.

[redbaron]

We are great to live with until we throw a fit.

understatement of the year.

[Trevor]

OK. Classical stuff, more or less.

But this:

Their naturally defensive response will upset me even more, and then a sort of conflict can occur.

In your opinion, what kind of response on their part would not be upsetting for you? What helps, if anything? I hope there has to be some way of quality.