Conflict and rivalry between Duals

[jewels]

What kinds of conflicts do you have with duals? Can you actually fight with your dual a lot?

[Beautiful sky]

Not with my cousin, because she raised me and we have a strong bond. I can fight with duals who have lost touch with who they are and what they are supposed to do for me; this is an affect of them having grown up without a dual and they remain distant towards me and just don't do the right things. My cousin and I never argue; neither do my good dual friend and I.

There was a good socionics saying that life messes people up, who don't have a dual around from an early age.

[FDG]

I don't like when either they fret over their future (usually girl ISFjs), or they make impuslive choices that will be very detrimental to their future (usually male ISFjs)

[Cyrano]

What kinds of conflicts do you have with duals? Can you actually fight with your dual a lot?

My wife calls me today at work to complain that I didn't tell her about the E-Mail from the school, delaying the start for an hour this AM. She knew I had opened the E-Mail the night before, so why hadn't I alerted her to the delay!!!??? She didn't find out until they had reached the school and found it closed.

We share an E-Mail account, so she had just as much chance to catch it. AND we had received a note from school last week that we both forgot. I opended the E-Mail, but dismissed it as junk-mail, not uncommon from our dippy Principal.

ENFP wife blames ME for the oversight, even though I don't take the kid to school every frickin' day.

When she called and dropped that on me, I asked if there was anything else. When she said, "no," I hung up (ISTp avoidance). The nerve, calling me to fuss at me about something that she could have caught just as well. MY fault!!!

I don't think so.

She took our daughter to breakfast and made a good morning of it. Later she appologized for her blow-up, and I for hanging up. She had just lashed out from frustration at her own poor organizational skills.

Of course I forgive her, knowing it wasn't MY fault after all. Hey, it ended well enough. And there is no substitute for being in the right.

[Creepy-male]

What kinds of conflicts do you have with duals? Can you actually fight with your dual a lot?

I wouldn't expect duals to fight frequently. You might have frequent clashes that arise during a period of tension, however. The only "cure" for one of these is to air things out and sort them out. I think each dual pair has a different way of doing this.

For me, this was just spending the day hanging out, chatting, having fun, and then rounding the day off by talking through a bunch of things, face to face (I totally sprung this on them, though, as that's what's easiest for me; it helps me articulate myself if I'm not under pressure, and my dual doesn't get stressy because they think something bad is coming up). I think it helped that we'd had an actual fight in the days prior to this that cleared the air somewhat. Now, after months of darkness, tension, stress and unhappiness*, we're happy and having fun again.

*This is typically (in inverted commas; a bad situation has only really cropped up twice, both pretty much over the same thing) how it happens. Overt conflict is rare. Also, there can be good patches during the unhappiness.

I think a shift in frame of mind also helped me. So, rather than blaming my bad moods on this poor dual of mine and then going and complaining to them about them (epic in hindsight), I recognise that there is a lot happening in my life that's stressing me out and making me sad from time to time, on top of natural moodiness. Part of the "darkness" (like how the light changes on an overcast day: subtle, but you notice the difference) was me being hypersensitive to my dual being unhappy (with me, as it turns out) and not knowing what to do about it other than complain to them "Hey ILE, you're making me miserable."

Lesson number two: duals or not, some people are just really immature or not cluey when it comes to dealing with people or relationships. I'm probably both. Duals let each other screw up and learn with the safety that you can do screwy things to one another out of ignorance or error without it being The End for good. I've been in a situation where I broke things off in confused flight, but my dual was there waiting for me when I came back, and likewise, I've had to weather this ILE doing some pretty hurtful stuff to me too.

I think all this only really applies if there's some strong connection there, either because you're both really fond of and attached to one another (can be a platonic thing), or because there's some attraction there (this will more than likely lead on to the first case in the case of duals (fondness and attachment, not necessarily in a platonic way )). If it's some random who Socionics says is meant to be your dual, a dating relationship won't differentiate your dual from any other type, I think. There needs to be some love there.

How are things going with Mr SLI? I think you've made the right choice by giving him a big old shock Guys are profoundly stupid*, and it can take a really nasty jolt to get us to learn. Never forget this.

*If you aren't, my apologies

</epic post>

[Slacker]

My husband and I occasionally have very minor disagreements, but they're very occassional and we resolve them almost immediately. We have only had two fights that were at all substantial in the 12 years we've been married, and both have been resolved within a half hour or so.

[Lobo]

What kinds of conflicts do you have with duals? Can you actually fight with your dual a lot?

What do you mean by fighting? Is it a problem with communication or conflicting ideals? Or, is it something that they did that hurt you and you want them to realize it?

[jewels]

thanks for the great replies everyone!

Martisa, wow that makes sense.

Cyrano, in that situation I'm willing to bet she let you think you're right to avoid more conflict, but probably is still slightly annoyed at you (at least I would be). Us ENFps need ISTps to notice the details we suck at noticing. Maybe do some extra nice things for her just on the off chance she's still a bit pissed.

Brian, yes epic post indeed! Well yes the SLI and I are together again but I think the main problem is his lack of communication. He will tell me only half of what's going on, which often makes him look like an inconsiderate jerk, when in fact he's not trying to be, but has left out the main parts of the story which makes him look bad. Like, I said I was sick and in a bad mood and he invited me to go across town to a bar event he was already going to...and I'm like "huh? I'm sick, don't want to travel or drink at a bar when not feeling well etc. and this makes no sense and is kinda lazy/selfish of you" And he's like "oh it was just a suggestion." But then he got mad and ended up going to the bar thing alone. That kind of silliness. Pisses me off. May be an immaturity thing. He doesn't intend any of it, but only says he realizes after the fact.

Lobo, the above will answer your question.

Thanks guys

[Beautiful sky]

thanks for the great replies everyone!

Martisa, wow that makes sense.
Thanks guys

Thank you Jewels...
You're very sweet.

[Airman]

here´s that hot girl called brian once again....ohmygod

[Airman]

Brian would you sleep with me?

[jewels]

Brian's a girl? Is Brian someone who was using a different name before? *confused*

[Beautiful sky]

Brian's a girl? Is Brian someone who was using a different name before? *confused*

LOL Brian's a boy; Airborne is infatuated with the picture of the girl; he's mad for her. Quite frankly, this is all stimulating my Si.

[silverchris9]

LOL Brian's a boy; Airborne is infatuated with the picture of the girl; he's mad for her. Quite frankly, this is all stimulating my Si.

Dear God, there are no words.

Anyway, meh, the one SLE I know closely enough to have conflict with the conflict is generally a result of differences of opinion on something that is actually important enough to one or the other of us to make a big deal out of it. But our friendship consists largely of arguing, so that's not really a big deal. I don't think I've ever really had a serious fight with an SLE. Perhaps SLE females are somewhat annoying in how much they flirt, even if they're attached/unavailable, but that's honestly not even that bad (and SEEs are way worse about it). And I suppose sometimes SLEs overestimate exactly how much I'm willing to be their assistants, like the other day I ended up staying up all night with a friend to help him with a paper he had only half-written. He owes me one, seriously. But all in all, I find SLEs far less annoying than I find myself; in other words, I don't mind them at all.

[Creepy-male]

Brian's a girl? Is Brian someone who was using a different name before? *confused*

Nah, I'm Gulanzon. Who else on these forums makes gigantic posts whenever you start a relationship thread?

EDIT

Other than Cyrano.

[jewels]

Nah, I'm Gulanzon. Who else on these forums makes gigantic posts whenever you start a relationship thread?

EDIT

Other than Cyrano.

Ah Gulanzon! Of course Funny I didn't realize.

[Mattie]

As a fellow connoisseur of those surly SiTe types...

Let's make a distinction with fighting, because I know / leads have a really broad definition of approaching conflict. Saying something that implies you're upset is almost fighting to an NeFi Though SiTe are receptive to this in the manner that they can tell something is wrong and will eventually ask, NeFi have a completely different concept (generally) of conflict resolution. Generally, NeFi will want to talk it out and SiTe will just want to let it work itself out in a non-therapy session manner. Even though we're duals, the SiTe close to me hate (this could just be a guy thing generally, or maybe people overall) talking it out. Apparently it's a special privilege for an SiTe to come to you to talk about your relationship, which is a strange concept for the typical NeFi.

Tell me if this is the same for you: The conflict with SiTe and I tend to be pretty similar. For me, what is very frustrating is that they do something or act a certain way that hurts me (or others) and they know it, apologize, but keep repeating this behavior. But on the other side, I seem to have a certain set of expectations (this might be a maturity thing?) when I enter a relationship, and I tend to ignore the present of the relationship, which is most likely rather underdeveloped than the way I have the relationship pictured in my head.

I think there will always be a communication issue depending on either the maturity of the people involved or the maturity of the relationship. I kept getting upset with an SiTe because he always put off hanging out with me because he was busy (which is understandable, I'm glad of the progress he's going through) but through one way or another, I'd find out he went to this party or hung out with this random friend, etc. So I'd act upset each time he would continue to tell me he was just so busy, and a month or so would go by without us seeing each other. We both went to a party of a mutual friend and I flat out ignored him. And in hindsight, I realized this was immature, but it felt like the only way I could get through to him that what he was doing was hurting me. So a day or so later, he calls me to talk. I then found out that we fell into a cycle of unintentionally making each other uncomfortable: I was getting upset, and therefore grouchy with him, that he wasn't spending time with him, and because I was acting like a grouch, he avoided spending time with me on purpose, and therefore there was this perpetuation of an issue we settled into. This issue had been a long-term one as well: We mentioned to each other that we liked everything about the other except for this one thing, and we just promised each other to fix this part without expecting the other to do so first, and see if everything gets better. We'll have to see

This rambled, sorry, I tend to forget my original point in the middle of typing and just start blabbing

[Suz]

What happens when circumstances are such that duals are rivals to each other (i.e. in competition with each other)?

I would imagine it wouldn't be a pretty sight, as each one sees their dual rival as awesome and more deserving than they are, and yet want to be competitive for whatever it is they are competing for.. But on the other hand, duality should be a comfortable interaction, so i'm not sure if rivalry between duals is even possible.

IDK, can it happen? and if so, how does it play out?

[Suz]

I guess by the looks of it, no-one has any experience with this...

[Beautiful sky]

Oh it gets ugly. YES, duals at first can compete and set out to take each other down. I have SEVERAL times here on the forum alone, with immature duals who were not dualized. EXHAUSTING. I've asked myself how this happens. I questioned an SEI - ILE dual once who were competing over their music thing and they said they had some heavy competition for an entire year, trying to out do one another; only when their project ended did they realize that they were a lot alike in what they wanted...he said "I realized that I make all these ideas and have this energy and she doesn't turn my ideas away but sort of evaluates them. I didn't see this before because I thought she was being competitive and abrasive, but I'm very competitive too, so I wasn't willing to back down, get along, work together or concede."

Neither were they physically attracted to each other as a first element; had they been they would have seen past a lot of things and tried to work from another perspective, but that they didn't see each other as romantic mates, from the beginning, only complicated their intellectual compatibility and made them stop seeing each other as helpful mates.

There are duals here that I've spoken to who will not listen to me because the've come to choose a group of friends or a person they like who feeds them incorrect information about me and because of relational influences they can't see or hear what I say to them; makes me want to kick them in the shins.

[InvisibleJim]

I guess by the looks of it, no-one has any experience with this...

I'm not sure it would be correct to call duality a 'comfortable' interaction, more 'clear' communication. But of course there is always someone who is going to blame their duals for their own failings (as above!) rather than accepting that sometimes their dual might have different values and/or interests.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm not sure it would be correct to call duality a 'comfortable' interaction, more 'clear' communication. But of course there is always someone who is going to blame their duals for their own failings (as above!) rather than accepting that sometimes their dual might have different values and/or interests.

Um, you don't have to be so indirect. You can just say "Maritsa blames her duals for [whatever]."

Differing values and interests don't matter in Socionics compatibility. They do if what you're looking for is outside of Socionics. To me, differing interests always adds something new and interesting to a relationship. Differing values should be worked to be reconciled or compromised on.

Duals already, by nature have differing interests; you can't expect an EII to do the same professions and things as an LSE can just out of what's natural; EII do more relational related stuff, humanities, religions and such, while an LSE is more inclined to be in more sensory related fields.

[InvisibleJim]

Um, you don't have to be so indirect. You can just say "Maritsa blames her duals for [whatever]."

Differing values and interests don't matter in Socionics compatibility. They do if what you're looking for is outside of Socionics.

I remember this one time I ignored reality because Socionics never.

[JWC3]

I get the feeling that ILIs consistently overestimate me in competitive atmospheres.

[Suz]

If this one particular guy i'm thinking of as having a bit of a rivalry with me is SLI, then he actually underestimated me. Or not, and he feels like proving himself...idk.I feel like he was being kind of patronizing for a while, until he realized how much other people respect me.

[InvisibleJim]

Respect WA bitchez.

[Beautiful sky]

It always makes me feel torn when I have to go at it with a dual. If they could just love, hold, hug, just provide some comfort and be gracious enough to listen and help when we need it.

[FDG]

I've experienced that with a couple of friends, mostly during cycling competitions. Might just be the Se nature of my duals, but I've found them to be rather cruel and heartless, lol. But perhaps there was something to learn from that.

[Pierreuse]

Haha, there's an LSI at work who alternates between helping me and saying good things about me and then knocking stuff over so it falls on me and making fun of me. And my LSI brother and I compete for space a lot... A LOT. And it can get brutal.

[Saberstorm]

I think that you need to engage in a takeover bid with your dual rival... join forces...

[Suz]

I think that you need to engage in a takeover bid with your dual rival... join forces...

The funny thing is that when a REAL LSI joined our team, suddenly we were sort of more on the same side. Up until then i was wondering if i'd mistyped this guy as SLI and that maybe he was LSI. Idk.

[Beautiful sky]

Duals can have some terrible conflict
For one Estj are incredibly selfish individuals
And why Socionics has paired them with a selfless person like me I’ll never know. For second selfish people don’t deserve to be in a relationship. Relationships in themselves require give and take and if you can’t give you have to be alone.

Of course the right Estj will realize that they are inherently selfish and will keep it in check. This is one area I did well.

Other dual Estj infj relationships where the Estj is a selfish ass hole tears holes in the relationship and I hear it in the conflict.

Very sad

[EUDAEMONIUM]

I have gotten mad at my dual, but I don't think I've ever stayed mad at my dual.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think at times the 4D demo function can hurt the PoLR of the other - they might not always respect or like you personally enough to be demonstrative with it. I don't think it's some ideal magical thing where a person's demonstrative function is always so benevolent and nice to the polr. They would have to think you are worth it for non-socionic reasons & duality is already so slow-to-build naturally to begin with- to even get to the point where liking you enough to do that is possible. But idk with that said duality still feels more positive than not, more compatible than not. As in duality you have to change the least naturally to communicate or be around the other person - can be yourself.

Occassionally you will greatly dislike duals for non-socionic reasons. You will sometimes really, really (and I mean really love your dual) - especially if you are around a lot of people from an opposing quadra and they saved your brain from completely going insane. But a majority of the time to me- cuz people are individuals- duality results in more of this pleasant indifference. If you are hating a "dual" that badly I think there's a strong likelihood that one or the other or both people are mis-typed.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

If you are hating a "dual" that badly I think there's a strong likelihood that one or the other or both people are mis-typed.

Yeah, I came back here to pretty much say this. I haven't really hated my dual, because it's so easy to understand them, even when you disagree you understand where they're coming from.

[Bethanyclaire]

You will sometimes really, really (and I mean really love your dual)

What’s it like, loving a dual that much? Is it that different to loving someone of another type?

[Rebelondeck]

Duals need each other's perspectives but don't necessarily want them; hence there will be differences in opinion - and a significant potential for conflict so maturity is required. Rivalry wouldn't be prevalent because they tend not to have similar interests.

a.k.a. I/O

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Ok, I have a story I just remembered. Its a conflict between an LSI woman and me while we were working on a group project together with a few other people. She would have a problem with everything that she didn't personally do. She even nit-picked the wording sentence by sentence of the other group members' contributions.

I eventually got so frustrated I blew up on her and then was so embarrassed by myself that I skipped class for the rest of the project lol.

[Scarlett]

Duals can have some terrible conflict
For one Estj are incredibly selfish individuals
And why Socionics has paired them with a selfless person like me I’ll never know. For second selfish people don’t deserve to be in a relationship. Relationships in themselves require give and take and if you can’t give you have to be alone.

Of course the right Estj will realize that they are inherently selfish and will keep it in check. This is one area I did well.

Other dual Estj infj relationships where the Estj is a selfish ass hole tears holes in the relationship and I hear it in the conflict.

Very sad

I think when both parties are mature enough, your dual will actually see the real you. EII becomes the only one who believes in LSE that deep down they have good heart, not just a selfish ass hole.

There's an instant trust in duality.

[Scarlett]

No rivalry, we're too different. My rival would be an ILI (my mirror) I guess.
No conflict as long as you're ok to do your things and let them do their things. For example, I wouldn't let an ESI to do my finances, wouldn't ask an ESI to plan things, but it's not a problem for me because I like to be in charge of our finance, I like to be the one who plans for everything, etc.