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Thread: Stages of Conflict Relations

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    Default Stages of Conflict Relations

    *Adapted from the stages of duality as discussed in this thread. It's a bit exaggerated in parts [to mirror the original article I adapted it from]. I don't know how accurate this will be/how much it will match up w others' experience of conflict relations, so I'm interested in getting people's input...

    1. Each person sees the other as attractive; each thinks of the other as interesting and with impressive abilities.

    2. As the two interact, they act in the way that is most natural for them [and the way that their dual subconsciously expects and responds positively to], but with surprising difficulties. Something seems to be coming between the two of them that causes misunderstandings, miscommunications, and general frustration [it is especially disappointing since original hopes were high for positive relations; this person seemed to promising as a companion].

    3. Despite the best intentions and hopes of each, a sensation of danger appears for both conflictors. Each may observe this but tries to write it off as only in their heads. Instead of backing away, the conflictors [because they are thinking of the original attraction they felt and trying to recapture it] may move towards each other in an attempt to establish positive relations with one another. Eventually, though, it becomes obvious and cannot be denied any longer. A sensation of discomfort and irritation arises.

    4. Both conflictors begin to feel simultaneously and equally the “impossibility” of being together in close contact without misunderstandings even for a short time. Still, there may be moments of fun and satisfaction, and so the conflictors may each decide to persevere in the hopes that things will turn around.

    5. Both conflictors feel something like an internal disappointment and possibly disgust, that weighs down the soul. The frown on the face appears like a quiet grimace of irritation and disapproval.

    6. Little by little, both conflictors begin to feel, if they have not already, the realization that they cannot get along well if in close contact. If persons are romantically involved, then this is really the beginning of the end for the relationship.

    7. The disruption of conflictors’ energy. This phenomenon appears naturally: the conflictors can just to be together, just sitting close together sometimes even without touching each other, and this sensation arises.

    8. This is most interesting stage. Conflictors cannot describe their feelings. Each feels so uncomfortable, so at ill ease, it is as if each feels nothing good at all when in the company of the conflictor.

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    I don't think it's necessary to take the same 8 points.

    But here are mine:

    1 mutual attractiveness
    2 overimpressed and expecting the worst
    3 heavy miscommunication
    4 building up revenge thoughts
    5 explosion and extreme retaliation on weak spots
    6 everything is fine and the cycle starts at point 1 again

    *source: my own 4 year conflict relationship

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    "Expecting the worst"

    An intuitive thinks "wow, I'm so weak, this kung fu master can smash me"

    A sensor thinks "grrrrrr uh uh uh you weird, I smart, I smash you uh uh uh"

    I've noticed some unhealthy people get really pissed when they discover someone uses his/her brain.
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    Describes my relationship with my mom perfectly.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Good job
    EII INFj
    Forum status: retired

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    CAPTAIN OBVIOUS APPEARS!


    it's not impossible to have good relationships with a conflictor.
    IDK how deep they can go, but, it's possible to have decent friendships with such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    CAPTAIN OBVIOUS APPEARS!


    it's not impossible to have good relationships with a conflictor.
    IDK how deep they can go, but, it's possible to have decent friendships with such.
    sure, as long as it is not romantically. That's to close.

    In a russian conflict description I've read that friendship is possible when keeping a polite distance.

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    Well this explains my ISFj/ESI grandmother.

    We can chit-chat on a superficial level, but that's about it. Anything deeper then that, and there's a whole lot of misunderstandings, miscommunication, and boloney flying around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    sure, as long as it is not romantically. That's to close.

    In a russian conflict description I've read that friendship is possible when keeping a polite distance.
    I've heard of people marrying their conflictors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I've heard of people marrying their conflictors.
    I've heard of men marrying another men and women marrying their pets
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I've heard of people marrying their conflictors.
    yes if you aren't aware of how other relationships can be, and you think (like most people do) that every relationship has its bad aspects, and you should simply work on your relationship to get it good. Then it's not strange that people marry their conflictor. They simply think it's a normal relationship because they have nothing to compare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    yes if you aren't aware of how other relationships can be, and you think (like most people do) that every relationship has its bad aspects, and you should simply work on your relationship to get it good. Then it's not strange that people marry their conflictor. They simply think it's a normal relationship because they have nothing to compare.
    Every relationship does have bad aspects; even duality isn't perfect. If people can make a conflict relationship work then more power to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    Every relationship does have bad aspects; even duality isn't perfect. If people can make a conflict relationship work then more power to them.
    you can't make a relationship work. That's the whole point of socionics. It's predetermined for a big part. The influence you yourself have on a relationship is insufficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    you can't make a relationship work. That's the whole point of socionics. It's predetermined for a big part. The influence you yourself have on a relationship is insufficient.
    There's a lot more to relationships than socionics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    There's a lot more to relationships than socionics.
    yes but socionics is the engine or maybe better, the steering wheel that points the direction.

    The effects of socionics in a relationship are remarkably quick to notice.

    Maybe you've also noticed that most people who experienced duality also make same sort of comments e.g. "suddenly everything get's a lot easyer"

    There's a lot more to relationships, but the biggest factor is socionics, I don't think you can dispute that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapOfSapphire View Post
    *Adapted from the stages of duality as discussed in this thread. It's a bit exaggerated in parts [to mirror the original article I adapted it from]. I don't know how accurate this will be/how much it will match up w others' experience of conflict relations, so I'm interested in getting people's input...

    1. Each person sees the other as attractive; each thinks of the other as interesting and with impressive abilities.

    2. As the two interact, they act in the way that is most natural for them [and the way that their dual subconsciously expects and responds positively to], but with surprising difficulties. Something seems to be coming between the two of them that causes misunderstandings, miscommunications, and general frustration [it is especially disappointing since original hopes were high for positive relations; this person seemed to promising as a companion].

    3. Despite the best intentions and hopes of each, a sensation of danger appears for both conflictors. Each may observe this but tries to write it off as only in their heads. Instead of backing away, the conflictors [because they are thinking of the original attraction they felt and trying to recapture it] may move towards each other in an attempt to establish positive relations with one another. Eventually, though, it becomes obvious and cannot be denied any longer. A sensation of discomfort and irritation arises.

    4. Both conflictors begin to feel simultaneously and equally the “impossibility” of being together in close contact without misunderstandings even for a short time. Still, there may be moments of fun and satisfaction, and so the conflictors may each decide to persevere in the hopes that things will turn around.

    5. Both conflictors feel something like an internal disappointment and possibly disgust, that weighs down the soul. The frown on the face appears like a quiet grimace of irritation and disapproval.

    6. Little by little, both conflictors begin to feel, if they have not already, the realization that they cannot get along well if in close contact. If persons are romantically involved, then this is really the beginning of the end for the relationship.

    7. The disruption of conflictors’ energy. This phenomenon appears naturally: the conflictors can just to be together, just sitting close together sometimes even without touching each other, and this sensation arises.

    8. This is most interesting stage. Conflictors cannot describe their feelings. Each feels so uncomfortable, so at ill ease, it is as if each feels nothing good at all when in the company of the conflictor.
    wow this is quite good. very very close to how it goes.

    i have to work on a close distance with my conflict. the only thing that has helped the relationship is to expect nothing, and, to openly discuss our mutual dislike of one another. LOL "you're so annoying, how you can stand yourself?" stuff like that. it's almost a way of cutting through the fluff and just making our external and internal reality more congruent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I've heard of people marrying their conflictors.
    I've heard of people stabbing their conflictors.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    yes but socionics is the engine or maybe better, the steering wheel that points the direction.

    The effects of socionics in a relationship are remarkably quick to notice.

    Maybe you've also noticed that most people who experienced duality also make same sort of comments e.g. "suddenly everything get's a lot easyer"

    There's a lot more to relationships, but the biggest factor is socionics, I don't think you can dispute that.
    I'm reluctant to call socionics the biggest factor because it's different for every relationship. I've also seen the huge influence living conditions, or sex, or long-distance, or infidelity can have on a given relationship. To say socionics is the determining factor in every relationship is to rely too much on the theory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I've heard of people stabbing their conflictors.
    exactly.

    The probabilities of conflictors marrying are low while stabbing are high.

    For duals it's likely the opposite.

    If you don't take into account rare exceptions, then relationships go according to socionics.

    Sure there are a lot of other factors involved, which make it difficult to see, but those relationship descriptions don't come falling out of the air, they are based on real life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I'm reluctant to call socionics the biggest factor because it's different for every relationship. I've also seen the huge influence living conditions, or sex, or long-distance, or infidelity can have on a given relationship. To say socionics is the determining factor in every relationship is to rely too much on the theory.
    It's difficult to determine how big a factor is. Soms factors will probably be some kind of veto, like in: if she has a cat and I'm allergic to cats, I won't date her.

    Does this mean that having a pet or not is the biggest factor in a relationship. No, just for that one. So we have to see it globally for all relationships. And then socionics comes up on top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Does this mean that having a pet or not is the biggest factor in a relationship. No, just for that one. So we have to see it globally for all relationships. And then socionics comes up on top.
    I doubt it...I think things like fidelity and attraction and proximity are more important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    The probabilities of conflictors marrying are low while stabbing are high.

    For duals it's likely the opposite.
    I realize that this is in jest, but you can't hate someone enough to stab them if you're not emotionally invested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    The probabilities of conflictors marrying are low while stabbing are high.

    For duals it's likely the opposite.
    "Oh, you're about to kill me? Okay, I activate your seeking function. Now you can't stab me."

    IEIs do this to SLEs all the time in novels.



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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I'm reluctant to call socionics the biggest factor because it's different for every relationship. I've also seen the huge influence living conditions, or sex, or long-distance, or infidelity can have on a given relationship. To say socionics is the determining factor in every relationship is to rely too much on the theory.
    yeah sure, but your broadening whats being talked about


    You said - if people can make conflict work, more power to them
    Jarno said - you cant make it work
    You said - socionics isnt the biggest factor, there are other influences

    there are of course, but downplaying the importance of socionical factors is not the wisest thing to do. as far as conflictors go, I completely agree with Jarno. you absolutely can not make a conflictor relationship work. I couldnt even conceive of a possible way. this does depend on your criteria for what a relationship consists of, but if it goes beyond interacting in a superficial way then I dont think this is possible. you can definitely have a sham relationship, a dysfunctional one, and have it technically 'last' this isnt what constitutes a relationship in my book, though. as far as those other factors go, duals would be more likely to work through and past them, dont you think? so even there, intertypes are playing their part. cant say its the biggest factor because I dont know; but its always present and a source of vital importance.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    yeah sure, but your broadening whats being talked about


    You said - if people can make conflict work, more power to them
    Jarno said - you cant make it work
    You said - socionics isnt the biggest factor, there are other influences

    there are of course, but downplaying the importance of socionical factors is not the wisest thing to do. as far as conflictors go, I completely agree with Jarno. you absolutely can not make a conflictor relationship work. I couldnt even conceive of a possible way. this does depend on your criteria for what a relationship consists of, but if it goes beyond interacting in a superficial way then I dont think this is possible. you can definitely have a sham relationship, a dysfunctional one, and have it technically 'last' this isnt what constitutes a relationship in my book, though. as far as those other factors go, duals would be more likely to work through and past them, dont you think? so even there, intertypes are playing their part. cant say its the biggest factor because I dont know; but its always present and a source of vital importance.
    We can agree to disagree, I guess. I've never been in or witnessed a close conflictor relationship. My approach is what I find to be more functional. I don't want to discourage any relationship because socionics says it won't work; my basic assumption is that if all other factors are positive, then it can outweigh the negative intertype dynamic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    We can agree to disagree, I guess. I've never been in or witnessed a close conflictor relationship. My approach is what I find to be more functional. I don't want to discourage any relationship because socionics says it won't work; my basic assumption is that if all other factors are positive, then it can outweigh the negative intertype dynamic.
    That is just the difference between reasoning and experiencing.

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    i find having to be around my conflict to be unbearably stressful. he is male, to boot. he borders on being like andrew dice clay, except without the misogyny. *shiver*

    it's a very good thing we have an IEE in the office. she keeps him in line. thanks, IEE. (and i keep the LSI in line)

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    I'm 99% sure my stepmother is my conflict. It's just a matter of knowing what to say and what not to say around her. Otherwise, we can get along very well. She laughs at what I say that I think isn't funny and vice versa. Conflict relations can work perfectly well, as long as you keep a good psychological distance. For an Fe type, this can often mean "acting like" a different type, being selective about your self-expression/presentation.

    Also, don't forget that like superego relations, there can be an aspect of respect-from-a-distance with conflictors. It's like they have great traits that are just somehow inaccessible to you. My stepmom has lots of practical intelligence and faith that I really respect. She in turn really respects my more theoretical intelligence, my verbal skills, etc. Heck, some of the time, I even feel bad for her when my dad (LII), expects things from her that she doesn't want to give/isn't capable of giving, and I sometimes (sort of) defend her. But if I tried to act like myself around her, like I do around my other friends? It wouldn't go over well. I get the same vibe from my good, good friend who's EII. We get along great as long as both of us are willing to meet the other halfway, and we focus on shared interests. But you can't be 100% yourself in such a situation, in my experience.

    I have noticed that with conflict relations you have to beat your head against the wall a few times before you realize it's not worth the beating. Your conflict, if they're being honest, WILL say some things that you find manifestly ridiculous/insane/stupid/crazy. And you will probably call them out on it and get in a couple of fights. But eventually you'll realize that the fights are so unpleasant that it's more worth it to keep psychological distance (which I know is a metaphor, but it really describes the situation well) than to try to "correct" what you see the "wrong" opinions your conflictor has. I don't know that I know any other people who I would definitively type as LSE, but I bet a similar relationship pattern would develop.

    I guess what I'm saying is, it's completely possible to get along with a conflictor; you just have to be willing to do a bit of self-abnegation, you have to not be yourself to a degree. Some people are more willing to do this, some people are less. Shrug.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I don't want to discourage any relationship because socionics says it won't work; my basic assumption is that if all other factors are positive, then it can outweigh the negative intertype dynamic.
    Just for the record, my ex conflict girlfriend was beautiful, the sex was good, she lived across the street, etc etc. But that conflict intertype dynamic was a really big factor, far above everything else. It was also the main and only reason we broke up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I guess what I'm saying is, it's completely possible to get along with a conflictor; you just have to be willing to do a bit of self-abnegation, you have to not be yourself to a degree. Some people are more willing to do this, some people are less. Shrug.
    This actually sounds very good for a conflict relationship. My mother is my conflictor and we're both trying - have been for years - and failing. There's only one way that works, and that's to limit our interactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    This actually sounds very good for a conflict relationship. My mother is my conflictor and we're both trying - have been for years - and failing. There's only one way that works, and that's to limit our interactions.
    exactly. another proof of the heavy influence of socionics on a relationship

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    This actually sounds very good for a conflict relationship. My mother is my conflictor and we're both trying - have been for years - and failing. There's only one way that works, and that's to limit our interactions.
    yes. when the relationship has lasted a long time, this becomes even more evident. with newer relationshps you initially try harder, try different things. when you get to a primary relationship like with your mother, it's lasted so long....the only way to get along is to limit. you've learned it by now.

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    I have an ENTj friend. Conflictor. We live in different countries so we don't meet very often. I can accept him as a friend as long as I don't expect any understanding between us. But we can still do things together, and that way we can be friends. And he inspires me by being so totally 100% different.

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