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Thread: Alphas, do you disrespect weakness?

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    Default Alphas, do you disrespect weakness?

    Partially inspired by a description that says ESFj disrespect weakness, but aren't inclined to think that INTjs are weak bz INTjs stand up for their beliefs.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    "Weak" is a rather vague term... hmm. Physical weakness I don't care about much at all. Other forms of weakness I dismiss as needlessly metaphorical and demand another term.



    LII-Ne

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    Didn't your mother ever teach you to always look for the strengths and usefulness in the things around you rather than weakness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewZ View Post
    Didn't your mother ever teach you to always look for the strengths and usefulness in the things around you rather than weakness?
    Nope. My mother is an ENFj and she definitely despised weakness in others. Not so much in herself though.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I'm with Brilliand, it depends on what you mean by "weakness". Physical weakness I don't despise at all, in fact, I feel sympathy for it. Moral weakness, on the other hand, I absolutely loathe.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Yeah, I kinda do. Not physical weakness of itself, but displays of it - like an example that sticks in my mind is of this IEI guy who was arm-wrestling a guy and wouldn't give in .. I think he won actually, but he was all pale and trembling at the end of it and it kinda made me feel sick.. though I didn't want to feel that way. :/ I mostly felt embarrassed for him. Like why would he make a display of himself like that? I don't disrespect people who are physically weak, but cognizant of their limits - who don't go to stupid extremes like that. But weakness to me is mainly giving into a whim, temptation or something, regardless of a prior resolve made.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    No way.

    Why? We're all human:

    We all have our strengths and weaknesses.

    Trying erase one part is like trying to get rid of the black side of the yin and yang.


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    As a 3 I must say yes, definitely, but I usually try to help them get over their weaknesses.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    I disrespect untalented people who try to do something they are not suited for. (Quite a few of these)

    I disrespect people who have a lack of skills and abilities entirely. (Not so many of these)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I disrespect untalented people who try to do something they are not suited for. (Quite a few of these)

    I disrespect people who have a lack of skills and abilities entirely. (Not so many of these)
    I agree with this.



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    My spontaneous reaction to weakness is disrespect. Or it makes me feel good that I'm better than someone else. But I distance myself from such feelings, I don't want to feel that way, it's really low. Then I try to put myself in the situation of the weak person, or think of all things that I show weakness in, and then I can overcome this feeling of disrespect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I disrespect untalented people who try to do something they are not suited for. (Quite a few of these)

    I disrespect people who have a lack of skills and abilities entirely. (Not so many of these)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    I agree with this.
    I don't. At least not in the way the statements are phrased. Regarding the first phrase, it depends in part on the person's awareness of their own abilities and why they are doing what they're doing. For example, if they are required to do something they are not suited for, say, for their job and they're not good at it, I don't disrespect them. Rather, I feel sorry for them and wish them luck in finding something more suitable. Some of these people, may just have not reached a point yet, where they have self-awareness of their true talents and abilities.

    I think there is a difference between people who know they are not talented in an area and attempt to do it anyway vs. those who attempt something because they are not aware that they have lack talent. I'm more likely to disrespect the former and very rarely the latter. Then again, I may just pity the former group. It really depends on the context.

    Regarding the second phrase, do you mean to say those who lack skills and abilities entirely in a *specific realm* or on a more *global scale* ? The specific realm case would be related to the first statement you made. I'm not so sure there are people who have a lack of skills and abilities *globally* unless they are in some vegetative state where they would be truly incapable of consciously responding to the world around them. Everyone is different and everyone has their own unique sets of talents and abilities. The reason for lacking these abilities vary. In some cases it may just be that the person hasn't practiced enough. Or in some cases, ability is inborn and has a more genetic component. But why would I disrespect these people? Especially for things that are inborn and they cannot control. Its like disrespecting someone for who they are rather than for their actions and intentions. I was kind of offended by the second statement actually. If you're going to make sweeping statements like that, please clarify the context in which you are making that statement.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I'm not so sure there are people who have a lack of skills and abilities *globally* unless they are in some vegetative state where they would be truly incapable of consciously responding to the world around them.
    Yeah, I don't think that hkkmr's second statement will ever actually come into play.

    As for the first statement, I know that I've disrespected people before that fit that description, but I've also respected people who fit that description; I'm having trouble putting my finger on the difference.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Yeah, I don't think that hkkmr's second statement will ever actually come into play.

    As for the first statement, I know that I've disrespected people before that fit that description, but I've also respected people who fit that description; I'm having trouble putting my finger on the difference.
    Yeah, I agree with hkkmr's first statement too. I think the difference you're thinking of is that some people recognize a weakness in a certain skill and strive to improve it while others won't have the humility to recognize their own weaknesses and instead insist on doing something they aren't good at and argue that they can do it.

    I don't have an issue with people who have weaknesses, I have an issue with people who are unwilling to recognize their weaknesses or unwilling to learn from someone who is perhaps more adept at that skill.

    As for physical weakness, I have no disrespect for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Yeah, I agree with hkkmr's first statement too. I think the difference you're thinking of is that some people recognize a weakness in a certain skill and strive to improve it while others won't have the humility to recognize their own weaknesses and instead insist on doing something they aren't good at and argue that they can do it.
    Yes, that sounds right. I also won't particularly disrespect someone who's being forced to do something they aren't good at and just sort of gives up; I suppose that's in between the two sorts that you mentioned.

    I think i see two dichotomies here... what's the fourth option...
    1. Knows they're bad at it and tries to get better
    2. Thinks they're good at it and doesn't try to improve
    3. Knows they're bad at it and doesn't try to improve
    4. Thinks they're good at it and tries to get better


    The last two are both sorta meh... because the problem will go away with time (either they'll get out of the field, or they'll actually become good at it).



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    Alphas, do you disrespect weakness?
    If someone exhibits mine weaknesses which I desperately want to get rid off, then I can get really annoyed.
    sorry for my bad grammar, i'm not in a right mood

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuturututu View Post
    If someone exhibits mine weaknesses which I desperately want to get rid off, then I can get really annoyed.
    sorry for my bad grammar, i'm not in a right mood
    Yeah, this is very true as well. It's aggravating to be bombarded with your own perceived weaknesses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Yeah, I don't think that hkkmr's second statement will ever actually come into play.

    As for the first statement, I know that I've disrespected people before that fit that description, but I've also respected people who fit that description; I'm having trouble putting my finger on the difference.
    I'm a elitist prick so I look with menace and disdain upon all mere mortals.

    Ah... ants I see, where is my magnifying glass, ah a joy to burn them with the heat of the sun!

    There is no glory in humility nor in skill. Sincerity, love, care, service, touch, these are all far more inviting for me. It is hard to ascertain the poverty and richness of others, and by circumstance our circumstances are compounded.

    A leveling will occur, whether thru benevolence or brutality. I rather entertain brutality until kindness sways my heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    There is no glory in humility nor in skill. Sincerity, love, care, service, touch, these are all far more inviting for me. It is hard to ascertain the poverty and richness of others, and by circumstance our circumstances are compounded.
    Yes, the humble people are pleasing because they're nice, not specifically because they're humble. Is there such a thing as a nice prideful person? I can imagine this in a person who isn't actively doing what they're so wrongly proud of at the time... overconfidence can be endearing when not put into action.



    LII-Ne

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    I don't disrespect physical weakness. I am very weak myself Crying is weakness, but crying is strength.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    is weakness at issue or respect at issue?

    respect is earned. those who experience weakness yet cope with it and develop strength have my respect.

    those who are strong but who exploit the weak have not earned my respect.

    those who are honest have my respect...the dishonest must cope with disrespect.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Weak people are alright...
    but stupid people are just stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Why do some people change their voice to sound babyish in certain situations or with some people? What type does this? For some reason I find that weak.
    It's also the same type who who doesn't stand up for their beliefs when it comes to crunch time and I also find that weak
    ....I do try to look for the good in people but those 2 things about a certain type come across as very weak to me.
    This is an indication of you being an Se leading type. Voice is an S function and you comparing it to a person being "weak" is the expression of your perception.

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    if dishonesty is weakness then i disrespect weakness. and there are levels of lying...so theoretically there could be a lot of disrespect sooooo....

    but yeah.

    *edit* holy shit i just noticed i already responded to this thread and basically said the same thing already. at least i'm consistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Yes maybe voice is an S function and it is S's who mostly do this baby voice. I don't do it. I am asking which type in particular does.
    It falls into the same category to me as not standing up to your beliefs and those two things together in the one type come do come across as very weak to me.
    That does not make me an S type like you would like to prove...
    It doesn't matter, the fact that you can hear and recognize it means you're using S; Ne types doen't care about that, we hear honesty tone not differentiate voice of and determine it to be weak or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but my brother uses to change his voice on the phone like that (I suppose) when talking to some people, especially chicks. That sounds to me a bit weird. He's and SLI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    This is an indication of you being an Se leading type. Voice is an S function and you comparing it to a person being "weak" is the expression of your perception.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANOl4ud07cU&feature=related]YouTube - Daffy Duck and Friends[/ame]

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    Weakness disrespects alpha.

    A lot.

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    PS: and your moms, too.



    (PPS: thanks, firefox, for correcting my improper spelling of momma and suggesting, instead, moms. I find that even more entertaining)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    What rubbish! We can all hear and when you hear what I am talking about often enough it can get to you a little.
    And I can definitely hear honesty/untruthful tones.
    You are so unbelievably closed minded Maritsa. You jump to conclusions about people without all of the information so quickly.
    Not all of us take time, ability, or interest in what you pick up on. That's the difference. Didn't you read my post on how Se polr manifested in me in school?

    What you wrote is so perfectly S kind of hearing, that I'm going to use it in my typing. Great job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    I really can't be bothered with your stupidity.
    Really? Because you can offer a better explanation of what S is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    Why do some people change their voice to sound babyish in certain situations or with some people?
    Obviously, you can hear them do it and you can recognize it when they do, therefore your S is strong because you can tell the differentiation in the tone; otherwise, you wouldn't have asked this question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    What type does this? For some reason I find that weak.
    Weak? Again, why is it weak for someone to do that unless tone, which is S function, you somehow related to Se.


    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    It's also the same type who who doesn't stand up for their beliefs when it comes to crunch time and I also find that weak
    Reality? Se-stand up for your beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    ....I do try to look for the good in people but those 2 things about a certain type come across as very weak to me.
    Again, I don't see voice as a representative of a person being weak or strong; I don't measure a person's worth by their strength, which again is tied to Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Nope. My mother is an ENFj and she definitely despised weakness in others. Not so much in herself though.
    lol. That sounds familiar.

    And I think ESFjs disrespect weakness because of their demonstrative . Its their way of showing INTjs what not to do etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    IMO they're rather condescending but not necessarily rejecting weak people. I think it's their innate dual-seeking, looking for confidence and assurance.
    I think condescension is the Se porcessed as Si but what I meant was that ESEs might have a greater propensity to demonstrate strength and pick on people's weaknesses than other alpha types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    Maritsa, first of all, Suzzy is not an Se type by a lot of reasons which are not stated here.

    Many people stand up for their beliefs, especially Ne types. Your golden rules are dumb and outrageous, XSI are much more prone to accept authority and kiss the asses of their superiors than any Ne type - read the descriptions. The most duplicitous (in the sense that they act depending on their goals) types are Se, read the fucking type descriptions where for example it's stated at SLE that his/her Ti which although rigorous, it confines his purposes.

    Suzzy didn't talk about physical weakness or the ability to dominate such people, actually pragmatic people who don't stand up for their beliefs use to be much more powerful and dangerous, she's talking about a character "flaw" that she perceives as a weakness. Blaze said the same thing about dishonesty, is dishonesty an Ne/Si trait? You're just fucked up - sit the hell down and listen to what people actually mean.

    You make a fallacy by taking weakness from people with one meaning (lack of integrity) and using it yourself with another one (lack of social power), that's a retarded mistake.
    It doesn't matter; hearing and tying these heard things to real matter of real existence makes it Se.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    Maritsa, first of all, Suzzy is not an Se type by a lot of reasons which are not stated here.

    Many people stand up for their beliefs, especially Ne types. Your golden rules are dumb and outrageous, XSI are much more prone to accept authority and kiss the asses of their superiors than any Ne type - read the descriptions. The most duplicitous (in the sense that they act depending on their goals) types are Se, read the fucking type descriptions where for example it's stated at SLE that his/her Ti which although rigorous, it confines his purposes.

    Suzzy didn't talk about physical weakness or the ability to dominate such people, actually pragmatic people who don't stand up for their beliefs use to be much more powerful and dangerous, she's talking about a character "flaw" that she perceives as a weakness. Blaze said the same thing about dishonesty, is dishonesty an Ne/Si trait? You're just fucked up - sit the hell down and listen to what people actually mean.

    You make a fallacy by taking weakness from people with one meaning (lack of integrity) and using it yourself with another one (lack of social power), that's a retarded mistake.
    You can't even give an example of how Se hearing would translate as...I just gave you an example of what they hear and how they judge a hearing perception...same as Se (5 major real matter of as it is perception). It's the same as Se vision saying "The door is black"; she says "This is how they sound"

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