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Thread: Is this just another manifestation of Fi role or Si HA?

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    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Default Is this just another manifestation of Fi role or Si HA?

    I'll notice sometimes when I'm really digging something like a good song, book, or movie, or work of art, if someone expresses dislike towards that thing, I'll often have the tendency to ask myself, is it okay for me to like this thing? This is especially true if its coming from someone I respect or the opinion of the other appears to be an expert one. Like if a bunch of movie critics give a bad review to a movie I happened to enjoy, I start doubting my own opinion of it. There must be something other people are perceiving in the movie that I'm not.

    I'm trying to tie this into information elements and I'm guessing it comes closest to Fi role. Fi deals with like and dislike and Fi in the role position acts as the superego so there's shoulds and oughts on it. In other words, *should* I *like* this? Is it right for me to like this? Just want to know other peoples' take on this.

    I'm also sensitive to any comments regarding my own aesthetic tastes. I think is the function that comes closest to matching aestetics and its a weak function for me, but its my hidden agenda so its valued. A hidden agenda hit is almost as bad as a PoLR hit. I feel insecure about whether or not I really have good 'taste' and I'm reluctant to show someone I my music or movie collection for example in the fear that my taste will potentially be ridiculed. Or if someone asks me what I think about a certain work of art. Especially if I just met that person and I have no idea what their own preferences are. I also fear that people will make wrong interferences about my character based on what I have in my collection. I think the fear of character judgement may also stem from Fi role.

    THOUGHTS???
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    ._. Aiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I'll notice sometimes when I'm really digging something like a good song, book, or movie, or work of art, if someone expresses dislike towards that thing, I'll often have the tendency to ask myself, is it okay for me to like this thing? This is especially true if its coming from someone I respect or the opinion of the other appears to be an expert one. Like if a bunch of movie critics give a bad review to a movie I happened to enjoy, I start doubting my own opinion of it. There must be something other people are perceiving in the movie that I'm not.

    I'm trying to tie this into information elements and I'm guessing it comes closest to Fi role. Fi deals with like and dislike and Fi in the role position acts as the superego so there's shoulds and oughts on it. In other words, *should* I *like* this? Is it right for me to like this? Just want to know other peoples' take on this.
    I totally don't relate to this part.

    I'm also sensitive to any comments regarding my own aesthetic tastes. I think is the function that comes closest to matching aestetics and its a weak function for me, but its my hidden agenda so its valued. A hidden agenda hit is almost as bad as a PoLR hit. I feel insecure about whether or not I really have good 'taste' and I'm reluctant to show someone I my music or movie collection for example in the fear that my taste will potentially be ridiculed. Or if someone asks me what I think about a certain work of art. Especially if I just met that person and I have no idea what their own preferences are. I also fear that people will make wrong interferences about my character based on what I have in my collection. I think the fear of character judgement may also stem from Fi role.
    This I relate to, somehow. I think most of it is just 5ish obsession with privacy. I'll show people parts of my books collection, but there are just things I'd rather they didn't know about me. I want to choose how much I let them know about me. I suppose some older books which I now hate but enjoyed at 13 play a part, too... need to get rid of those finally. It's not so much that I'm afraid of criticism, more that I don't want them to think me deficient (esp. since it doesn't say anything about who I am now). Generally trusting people you don't know with any information is as good as sticking posters about it everywhere, most of them will bring it up in front of others sooner rather than later.

    I suppose it's not only Fi-role/Si-HA, at least not all of it.
    Last edited by Aiss; 04-11-2010 at 05:50 PM.

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    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I usually avoid sharing what books/movies/music that I like. I don't want to have my taste criticized either in that, and would rather not give people the opportunity to do so. I don't want to be judged or categorized according to those sorts of things either. And it makes me irritated or uncomfortable to hear criticisms of those things also. So, I can identify. I just keep my mouth shut, and continue liking what I like, heh.
    It's a great relief to know I'm not the only one in this!
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I'll notice sometimes when I'm really digging something like a good song, book, or movie, or work of art, if someone expresses dislike towards that thing, I'll often have the tendency to ask myself, is it okay for me to like this thing? This is especially true if its coming from someone I respect or the opinion of the other appears to be an expert one. Like if a bunch of movie critics give a bad review to a movie I happened to enjoy, I start doubting my own opinion of it. There must be something other people are perceiving in the movie that I'm not.

    I'm trying to tie this into information elements and I'm guessing it comes closest to Fi role. Fi deals with like and dislike and Fi in the role position acts as the superego so there's shoulds and oughts on it. In other words, *should* I *like* this? Is it right for me to like this? Just want to know other peoples' take on this.
    I agree, this is related to Fi. I used to be the same way -- I have a friend (I think SLI, but he's very atypical and I'm not as certain of that as I used to be) who has very strong opinions on these things, and I used to be afraid to like things that he didn't like, because that would be somehow "wrong". Certainly I was afraid to say anything about it. It's only in the past few years that I've started to realize that my own opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, and I can enjoy "lame" music and dislike "cool" TV shows if I feel like it. It's been very liberating. Interacting with an ESE helped with that a lot, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I'm also sensitive to any comments regarding my own aesthetic tastes. I think is the function that comes closest to matching aestetics and its a weak function for me, but its my hidden agenda so its valued. A hidden agenda hit is almost as bad as a PoLR hit. I feel insecure about whether or not I really have good 'taste' and I'm reluctant to show someone I my music or movie collection for example in the fear that my taste will potentially be ridiculed. Or if someone asks me what I think about a certain work of art. Especially if I just met that person and I have no idea what their own preferences are. I also fear that people will make wrong interferences about my character based on what I have in my collection. I think the fear of character judgement may also stem from Fi role.

    THOUGHTS???
    I think you're mixing Fi and Si here. "I like this" is an Fi statement, "this is pleasant/comfortable" is an Si statement. But yeah, I'm likewise nervous about what is and isn't aesthetically pleasing. This is why I find a combination of clothes/hairstyle that seems good, and then stick with it.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    This sounds like Fi Ego, not Super-Ego. For Fi Role, one tries to do that, to emulate, but for you it just comes, it's yours and can't avoid it.
    Fi types are attuned to the rest of the people and they begin questioning themselves when they're the "lost sheep" feel like "hey, I think I'm doing something wrong, as I'm alone doing this". Fi needs stability, to know what people use to do, value and accept, assurance from the peers.

    Ti types are the opposite manner, when something makes sense for them, could not change their mind even if the whole world would tell them that that's wrong - eh not really, but up to a point.

    Anyway, as long as you use to reject any details supporting the fact that that you are something other than LII, I won't waste any more time on this .
    Okay, I'm going to admit you may be right here. I identify very much with Fi the way you describe and not so much with Ti.
    It's possible I'm really an EII and not an LII. It's actually something I've been thinking about alot lately. I'm not as closed to the possibility that I may not an LII as you may think.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I think you're mixing Fi and Si here. "I like this" is an Fi statement, "this is pleasant/comfortable" is an Si statement. But yeah, I'm likewise nervous about what is and isn't aesthetically pleasing.
    Yah, I think LII's with both their Role Fi and creative Ne would be more likely to evaluate their level of attraction/repulsion and be more hesitant in acknowledging what they actually like/dislike (correct me if I'm wrong). And there's also that weak, but valued, Si there that you mentioned

    This is why I find a combination of clothes/hairstyle that seems good, and then stick with it.
    Same here, finding aesthetic things that I like and that also compliment me is exhausting and time consuming. Than you get Si's who can walk into any store and throw a fantastic outfit together in a matter of minutes, like those "What Not To Wear" hosts, bah
    EII INFj
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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    What I've learned though, is that like wine, it's "good" if you like it. It doesn't matter if it's accepted as good, or someone else thinks it's awful, if you like it, it's good. I fell into that trap too, not knowing what was "okay" to like or not like, but then someone assured me when I didn't want to go to a wine-tasting once, that the only judge of whether wine is "good" or not is if you like it. And so I started applying that to other things too, and stopped worrying about it. Your own taste, is yours, and it's good, no matter what anyone else thinks.
    Hm I don't agree with that. :-P Well I agree that a person's taste is their own (erm things'd be fishy if it weren't), but I don't think everyone's taste is necessarily "good". Not that I think everyone should necessarily like "good" things - just that you can like something that's "bad" for some reason - objectively bad :-p. Hopefully, you're aware of the reasons for liking that thing, but liking something of true quality.. well quality speaks for itself.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    That's ok - it might have been only my impression about your stubbornness. I don't expect you to stay on this type as long as you have doubts, but this is actually what I find to be natural and funny.
    The bad thing I always see about EIIs is that if they don't find reassurance in the most other people, they tend to doubt, like you said. This is IMO what actually happens often to Suzzy and as long as I'm the only person which thinks she's EII (afaik) it's not much to be done about it.

    Edit: I always found EII to be a mix between between social conformity and independent thinking.
    Yeah, I very much identify with the tension between social conformity and independent thinking. I want to carve out a unique identity for myself. I don't want to just blindly conform to the masses. I don't want to be just like everybody else. Yet being too unique or different is unsettling. There is reassurance in knowing you're not the only one with some quirk or whatever.

    I also wonder if being a social subtype in the enneagram contributes to this.

    I also think Suzzy is EII and see no reason to challenge her self-typing.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Hm I don't agree with that. :-P Well I agree that a person's taste is their own (erm things'd be fishy if it weren't), but I don't think everyone's taste is necessarily "good". Not that I think everyone should necessarily like "good" things - just that you can like something that's "bad" for some reason - objectively bad :-p. Hopefully, you're aware of the reasons for liking that thing, but liking something of true quality.. well quality speaks for itself.
    Sorry, I kind of disagree here. I see very few things as being objectively bad. I see everything is pretty much relative. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that if people like similar things to you, then they have good taste and if they don't they have bad taste. I admit to being this kind of this way when younger but now I know that just because I like or dislike something doesn't make the thing inherently any better or worse.

    I guess I just want to be accepted completely for who I am, down to the minutest quirks.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    Sorry, I kind of disagree here. I see very few things as being objectively bad. I see everything is pretty much relative. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that if people like similar things to you, then they have good taste and if they don't they have bad taste. I admit to being this kind of this way when younger but now I know that just because I like or dislike something doesn't make the thing inherently any better or worse.

    I guess I just want to be accepted completely for who I am, down to the minutest quirks.
    Having bad taste can be an endearing quirk. :-p But seriously, I wasn't suggesting that some people's likes should be taken as law or something - that everyone should strive to like the same things. I was just meaning that I think good taste and a person's subjective tastes/what a person likes are separate concepts. Maybe a person likes the taste of rotten apples. Well that's a quirk, and who cares? - eat the rotten apples. But that doesn't change the fact that crunchy, sweet apples represent quality when it comes to apples. Hey I kinda like the look of mismatched clothing/colours. I wouldn't have a problem with people accusing me of bad taste in that regard. :-p I like the look of messy hair on guys (legitimately messy), but I'm not going to pretend that that look represents quality. I like the taste of some junk food, but hey it's still junk. :-p Ectera ectera
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    Having bad taste can be an endearing quirk. :-p But seriously, I wasn't suggesting that some people's likes should be taken as law or something - that everyone should strive to like the same things. I was just meaning that I think good taste and a person's subjective tastes/what a person likes are separate concepts. Maybe a person likes the taste of rotten apples. Well that's a quirk, and who cares? - eat the rotten apples. But that doesn't change the fact that crunchy, sweet apples represent quality when it comes to apples. Hey I kinda like the look of mismatched clothing/colours. I wouldn't have a problem with people accusing me of bad taste in that regard. :-p I like the look of messy hair on guys (legitimately messy), but I'm not going to pretend that that look represents quality. I like the taste of some junk food, but hey it's still junk. :-p Ectera ectera

    Good point.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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