Is Socionics Really a Personality Hypothesis?

**Mattie** · 04-11-2010, 02:38 AM

Thought I'd start up a discussion where video discussion is encouraged (but not required, of course

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**Skeptic** · 04-11-2010, 02:51 AM

So you're saying that those of us who say 'if (a function) in this situation, then (something) occurs' are using poor typing methods because one's reaction to that situation isn't based on function composition but rather personality? That is to say that the assignment of various quirks or traits to types is not true to socionics. I agree if that's the case, but if you conform to that typing ideal religiously you will be left with very little to determine the type of someone, so perhaps a little give and take is best.

**Jarno** · 04-11-2010, 08:49 AM

it's a theory not a hypothesis.

**discojoe** · 04-11-2010, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Diana

Excellent post. This is exactly right. My internet is starting to go wacky again, so that's all I can write now.

He didn't actually say anything.

**Slacker** · 04-11-2010, 09:36 PM

I think the relationship between personality traits and type is complicated and potential. Some traits might be caused by some IEs in some people. Some behaviors might be more common in people of one type than another, sometimes for different reasons. And there are so many outside issues that affect these things, like experiences growing up, what your role in life is (like I'm a mom so I'm a caretaker in that sense regardless of my type), what things you've gone through in life, expectations you have or others have of you, etc. So IMO some personality traits might suggest or point to one type or another, or use of one IE or another, but it isn't something where you can say "he's an actor, therefore he's X type", "she's ambitious, therefore she's X type", "he voted for this candidate, therefore he's not this type", or "she likes to sleep in, therefore she can't be X type."

**Hot Scalding Gayser** · 04-12-2010, 03:20 AM

Basically, socionics is like this (metaphorically speaking, don't take it too literal but understand the general concept):

Ask 5000 people to draw a house. Don't give any specifics on type of house. Just ask them to draw a house, the first thing that comes to their head. And then, you hand them in.

Each house would probably look a little different, and have very subtle minute differences that are really hard to make abstract judgements upon. These technical granite specifics are like the socionical functions used in your brain. It's also sort of like your handwriting. Each of it is just very individual and unique.

And then try to line up the houses together using your creative sides of ur brain and try to understand what houses go good together as a sense of flavor and taste, extremely hard cause it depends TOTALLY on who you ask, because this is ultimately subjective. Different people just fancy many different things when they perceive something. This is what the internal relationship dynamics really are. And you can try to objectively explain this experience but it becomes sort of insane because it all boils down to you like who you like and you dislike who you don't! And this can be of course, you like somebody and they don't like you and you feel soulmate feelings for somebody and they don't you. I mean that sort of sucks, but there are times when it's mutual.

**The Exception** · 04-12-2010, 03:22 AM

Here's my house:

**Hot Scalding Gayser** · 04-12-2010, 03:27 AM

Say you're in a classroom. The teacher just doesn't like you so they're gonna try to do something to hurt your internals. The teacher likes you, so they're gonna try to really understand where you're coming from subjectively and empower you.

And this is happening not just with the teacher but with everybody constantly at all different social points. You meet somebody and they subjectively abhor you and you don't really do anything because it's socially not acceptable but afterwards in the EMPTY SPACE where we find meaning, we're like 'Holy shit, I think that guy was an asshole' or 'I really liked such and such.' And we have like this sense of 'getting along' and stuff, maybe it's just our super-ego I don't know.

In reality we have to pay attention to too many things at once our brain is too 'alive' so to speak to really understand this, and so people confuse us. We don't really know who's on our side yet and who we really like because of this.....although that also has to do with different functions playing off each other as well, Betas don't value Fi so it's more difficult for us.

Creepy-female · 04-12-2010, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by aixelsyd

I may spare some time to make an elaborate article on this.

Originally Posted by aixelsyd

I am not a fucking man. Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by aixelsyd

What Freud said about personal unconscious, too, which deals with an individual's life experiences (at least to some extent where it doesn't start adding emphasis on mothers and penises)

Originally Posted by aixelsyd

He has a dick (wrote he is dick at first, woops).

Creepy-female · 04-12-2010, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves

And this is happening not just with the teacher but with everybody constantly at all different social points. You meet somebody and they subjectively abhor you and you don't really do anything because it's socially not acceptable but afterwards in the EMPTY SPACE where we find meaning, we're like 'Holy shit, I think that guy was an asshole' or 'I really liked such and such.' And we have like this sense of 'getting along' and stuff, maybe it's just our super-ego I don't know.

In reality we have to pay attention to too many things at once our brain is too 'alive' so to speak to really understand this, and so people confuse us. We don't really know who's on our side yet and who we really like because of this.....although that also has to do with different functions playing off each other as well, Betas don't value Fi so it's more difficult for us.

idk is it about Fi exactly? I think you have a point but also even Fi ppl need time to process that info. It's like in psychology where if you sleep after you've taken in a lot of information it's like your brain kind of refreshes or reboots itself or something and you retain the information better. So close constant proximity to a person can throw off that needed alone processing time where you figure out where they are at in relation to you, cause if you were with them all the time you'd have nothing to compare with, cause like measuring a person takes being exposed to them and then their absence, to get a feel for them, like positive and negative space. I think that all is just human.

But ime with Fi, you don't always *know* exactly what your relationship is to other people right off the bat, and even if you do, it's not practical to say that you do, cause say you don't know where it fits or for what reason your feelings are there. Like if you're in a healthy place your feeling intuitions will be mostly right, but say you're having a bad day, you could be projecting a lot of stuff on them you know? Not really projecting, but acting on your perceptions/feelings about people which can be socially ruinous. Even though your feelings towards people stay more or less constant it might be easier or harder to deal with them on a day to day basis based on circumstances, and you might say things you would've edited out and just been able to move on from. At a base level I think such and such blah blah and bitch to a couple close people, but it's also like how much of that really matters in the real world? As long as they're not close to me or in a position to affect me I'm not going to excessively focus on them.

I mean some of that is practicality and trying to learn a more neutral approach from for example my Beta brother. So that's like on a good day, but I never learned a certain sort of Fe subtlety and it's a relief to dispose of it completely among close people without having to tiptoe around the looming silent whisper of social fucking up. I liked what silverchris said about the Se polrs in his group kind of subtly controlling the social stuff or whatever, it made sense to me. Although I'm not trying to be nerdy and overly justify my social ineptitude to Socionics, because I'm not, even though I'm not really socially inept.

But yeah, it usually takes around a day or some hours of exposure to the person, actual interaction with them, to get a feel for how they are in relation to me. Sometimes it takes longer because I fake out my feeling intuitions due to expectations, and am coughing up tar, but I keep it to myself or try to use self control or express it a tiny bit and then distract myself and observe people and it passes. Although I don't think of it as a sin, the harshness. It's more of a beast but still truthful and raw and I think it's staying around so it's better to just accept it. And you know. It's like the yellowness of a flash of electricity. But it's always good to accept new info too. It can be rewarding like "I learned something new and cool about this person, yaaay!111!" or pissy like "Omg I can't believe I didn't see that grrr"..but it's not really constantly changing or something I think.