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Thread: Tritype and Instinctual Variant Link?

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Default Tritype and Instinctual Variant Link?

    For the past week or so I've started to study Enneagram more in-depth, and a question has occurred to me: is there any link between the instinctual variants and the tri-type? For example, if one were a 2-9-7, so/sp/sx, would the 2 type and the Social instinct be linked? And would the person, when dealing with Self-Preservation matters, shift into 9 mode, etc.?

    Something like this:
    2-so
    9-sp
    7-sx

    I'm just wondering if there's been any writing on this idea, or if it's even reasonable, or what. It's just a thought that occurred to me, which seems internally consistent, but may or may not be valid.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    I haven't heard of such a thing, but I think the most reasonable way to interpret this is with the so, sx, and sp instincts operating as additional information in the instinctual triad. Since they are fundamentally supposed to be instincts.

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    I think instinctual stacking affects all points on the trifix equally.
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    4-7-9 sx/so/sp

    I get closer to others using 4 strategies
    I do social interaction using 7 strategies
    I protect myself using 9 strategies

    Sounds like it makes sense to me. I do protect myself by repressing anger and being "sweet" and "nice". And I suppose when I'm in a social interaction I like to be the "fun" person, but then when I narrow it down to the one-on-one relationship (the one I'm most interested in anyway), I don't want to be the fun one anymore, I want to express my soul. So yeah, I buy that.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    I haven't heard of such a thing, but I think the most reasonable way to interpret this is with the so, sx, and sp instincts operating as additional information in the instinctual triad. Since they are fundamentally supposed to be instincts.
    I dunno, despite the fact that they're both called "instinctual", I tend to think they're two different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    I think instinctual stacking affects all points on the trifix equally.
    Yeah, that's the other possibility I was considering. Any reasoning/evidence behind this, or is it just kind of a gut feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    4-7-9 sx/so/sp

    I get closer to others using 4 strategies
    I do social interaction using 7 strategies
    I protect myself using 9 strategies

    Sounds like it makes sense to me. I do protect myself by repressing anger and being "sweet" and "nice". And I suppose when I'm in a social interaction I like to be the "fun" person, but then when I narrow it down to the one-on-one relationship (the one I'm most interested in anyway), I don't want to be the fun one anymore, I want to express my soul. So yeah, I buy that.
    Cool, that makes sense. It also seems to make sense with my own type: 1-5-4 sp/sx/so

    I protect myself using 1 strategies ("If I do everything right, I'll be safe!").
    I get closer to others using 5 strategies ("I want us to know everything about each other").
    I socialize using 4 strategies ("Look how weird and interesting I am! Now I must go sit in a dark room and moan about how I have no friends..." )

    I'm just a little cautious that there may be some Forer effect at play here. However, it does seem to line up quite nicely so far.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Yeah, that's the other possibility I was considering. Any reasoning/evidence behind this, or is it just kind of a gut feeling?
    Well the instincts are like a "prime directive" that drives everything else. Personality can get in the way of someone's instinctual needs, but everything is ultimately to serve the instincts.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    4-7-9 sx/so/sp

    I get closer to others using 4 strategies
    I do social interaction using 7 strategies
    I protect myself using 9 strategies
    well this is what trifix is all about. It's not really related to the instincts. The gut fix deals a lot with how someone treats their boundaries with other people. Having an 8 gut fix is offensive, 9 fix is passive, 1 fix is rigid/defensive. It doesn't matter what your stacking is--that's just how the gut fix is defined. It makes no sense for an sp 4 to defend themselves using some 4 strategies, for instance.

    You aren't too far off with how you're looking at the trifix, but the instinct is different. Image fix deals a lot with how you want to come across to other people, but still that instinctual need is on a different plane. Social instinct deal with social status. If you have social as primary instinct, you're mostly concerned with your status in your community (however you define it) and that acts independently of your image fix.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Well the instincts are like a "prime directive" that drives everything else. Personality can get in the way of someone's instinctual needs, but everything is ultimately to serve the instincts.



    well this is what trifix is all about. It's not really related to the instincts. The gut fix deals a lot with how someone treats their boundaries with other people. Having an 8 gut fix is offensive, 9 fix is passive, 1 fix is rigid/defensive. It doesn't matter what your stacking is--that's just how the gut fix is defined. It makes no sense for an sp 4 to defend themselves using some 4 strategies, for instance.

    You aren't too far off with how you're looking at the trifix, but the instinct is different. Image fix deals a lot with how you want to come across to other people, but still that instinctual need is on a different plane. Social instinct deal with social status. If you have social as primary instinct, you're mostly concerned with your status in your community (however you define it) and that acts independently of your image fix.
    Hmm, this also makes sense. Do you have a link to any further reading on this subject?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Does the instinct have to be the same in each part of the trifix?

    For example, I think my trifix is either 5-4-1 or 5-4-9

    For the 1 or 9, I relate most to sp instinct but for the 4, I relate most to social. I still don't know what instinct I relate to best for type 5. I identify with them all.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    No, there is no writing on this.

    you only have 1 dominant subtype, 1 secondary and 1 repressed.

    even if you adopt tritype, its still the same.

    youll not change. btw being nice to others is more a 6 strategy of protecting yourself than a 9 strategy of protection. 9s use this to avoid stress which they find useless.

    in tritype im 1-4-7 still sx/sp . dont see any change.

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    i dunno why people want to complicate the enneagram so much.

    IT IS VERY SIMPLE AND IT WORKS WELL THIS WAY.

    YOU CAN EVEN ADOPT WINGS FOR ALL YOUR 3 TYPES IF YOU USE TRITYPE BUT INSTINCTUAL SUBTYPES ARE THE SAME. YOU ARE NOT 3 PERSONS. YOU ARE 1 PERSON. FUCK OFF, WANKERS.

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    ... god lol, people want to always make things ridiculously complex

    First of all tritype isn't designed to make you 3 different people its designed to investigate three different aspects of your nature. Your head, your heart, and your gut. To understand these 3 aspects of your nature you must understand exactly what makes each triad different.

    Second, I think instinctual variants are just types of instincts. You have social instinct, have sexual instinct, have self-perservation instinct. Then you have the instinctual triad, which is explains a personality type developed around your instinctual nature. Both are refering to the same types of instincts, but sure they aren't the same thing, but they are dealing with things in the same realm; the realm of instinct.

    Third, you can probably link the head triad and heart triad to instinctual variants, but the correct way would probably require you to start with asking, "What is the head triad?", then ask, "What are the instinctual variants", then ask, "How are these connected".

    Example --

    What is the head triad?
    The head triad deals with issues of anxiety and uncertainity, it provides a copping mechanism to this problem that lies before people, it is concerned with mental energy and thought as the primary way to deal with this anxiety

    What are the instinctual variants?
    Instinctual variants are a way of categorizing particular instincts into a hierarchy of three. The instincts themselves are not ways of coping, but instead are instinctual ways means of survival. They are more or less survival strategies, that are instinctual in nature. Sexual is rooted in the ability to have something survive you beyond your death. Social is rooted in the ability to survive through help from a community. Self-perservation is rooted in the ability to hoarde and amass things and ideas more generally in order to survive.

    How are they connected?
    Only at the intersection of a very subconcious instinctual survival technique (the instinct) and the anxiety and uncertainity pertaining to it. However each instinct plays a role into the anxiety and uncertainity pertaining to it, rather than a single one in the hierarchy, for obvious reasons. Since anxiety and uncertainity issues are not solely focused on the ability to have something survive you, the ability to survive through help from a community, or the ability to amass provision. All of these can develop issues of anxiety the head trifix will deal with

    There you go, thats clear thinking......... it fits together, its coherent, and isn't full of outlandish intuitive leaps (which I guess isn't a really bad thing if your just thinking free-form). It seems like common sense and isn't full of flashy words like "Quantum String Theory Psychodynamic Entropy", so it may seem boring, but its useful, flash comes after substance. Flash is great but it has to have function/substance.

    At any rate, I'm sure your going to disagree with me, this is fine, just post your disagreement as a response.

    All I am saying is if your going to be building on top of an established theory you better make sure your thought process is structured and sensible or else your going to end up with crap when you use the theory. Theory are designed as structured statements of principles you can use to turn out results that may not be obvious to you.

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    I agree with much of what you have said (the part that I was able to understand which was about 90%).

    What Im saying is:

    there is no such thing as: Im tritype 1-4-7, 1sx, 4so, 7sp , or something that looks like this. This is just absurd.

    There are more absurd theories abounding pertaining to the Enneagram most come from the USA - I hint because the 3w4 type of this sad country cannot stand things as a system which you learn quickly and thats it, they have to be in constant activity creating new theories (type3) and the theories have to be a little eccentric (w4).

    Ive heard from a member here that shes : 2w3sx sw(9w1)
    Now, this makes me laugh a lot because it seems that people are not satisfied with wings, they had to invent SUBWINGS, and then probably when they get tired of the subwings they will invent SUB-SUBWINGS, this process repeating ad infinitum with more and more subvariants until the whole thing is sheer nonsense but looks very complicated and intelligent at first sight (type 3 again).

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    Yea I think the subwings are a bit superfluous (even though I know all 3 of mine). It basically tells you if you have a strong wing or a strong core. 3w2sw2w1 has a strong 2 wing while 3w2sw4w3 emphasizes the 3 aspect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    I agree with much of what you have said (the part that I was able to understand which was about 90%).

    What Im saying is:

    there is no such thing as: Im tritype 1-4-7, 1sx, 4so, 7sp , or something that looks like this. This is just absurd.

    There are more absurd theories abounding pertaining to the Enneagram most come from the USA - I hint because the 3w4 type of this sad country cannot stand things as a system which you learn quickly and thats it, they have to be in constant activity creating new theories (type3) and the theories have to be a little eccentric (w4).

    Ive heard from a member here that shes : 2w3sx sw(9w1)
    Now, this makes me laugh a lot because it seems that people are not satisfied with wings, they had to invent SUBWINGS, and then probably when they get tired of the subwings they will invent SUB-SUBWINGS, this process repeating ad infinitum with more and more subvariants until the whole thing is sheer nonsense but looks very complicated and intelligent at first sight (type 3 again).
    Well actually I was agreeing with you.

    I think 1sx, 4so, 7sp... is nonsense; instincts don't belong or have membership to a particular type.

    I do think instincts can affect different types to make them seem different ways, and of course you can mix in tritype into the equation, and now your looking at a vastly unique type since you have to worry about wings, instincts, and tritype.

    but I think the process of saying instincts MUST belong to a single and only a single type is a misleading idea. Its better to consider such an idea on a case-by-case circumstance than a general theory or method imho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Yea I think the subwings are a bit superfluous (even though I know all 3 of mine). It basically tells you if you have a strong wing or a strong core. 3w2sw2w1 has a strong 2 wing while 3w2sw4w3 emphasizes the 3 aspect.
    Thanks Electric Sheep you, as a type 3, exemplified perfectly what I wanted to say.

    Look at your type description:

    3w2 so/sp
    3w2-6w7-1w2 so/sp
    3w2(sw2w1) - 6w7(sw5w6) - 1w2(sw9w1) so/sp

    the last line shows what is in my view the absurdity of exaggeration to which type 3 is addicted.

    id like to do an experiment with type 3s by locking them in a quiet calm forest in which very slow reggae music would be played non-stop and marijuana and water would be the only resources available for survival. most of them would die within the first 2 days of lack of frenzied activity.

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    I know authors who are skeptical about even tritype.

    I myself am not, I find tritype useful and REAL, which is what is important to me, I dont like theories for their own sake but only if they prove to have a real application.

    but even tritype is hard to tell. I think if you can tell your type and dominant wing, youve already done a great job and may consider stopping at this because you already will have lots of information about yourself (or anyone, if youre typing someone else).

    tritype I dont see as necessary to the enneagram. Im still in doubt which are my heart center and mental center types. I might be 1-3-7. tritype is not easy, in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Yea I think the subwings are a bit superfluous (even though I know all 3 of mine). It basically tells you if you have a strong wing or a strong core. 3w2sw2w1 has a strong 2 wing while 3w2sw4w3 emphasizes the 3 aspect.
    the core type is always stronger than the wing. period. cant you see this? if the wing type is stronger, it is not the wing, it is the core type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    Thanks Electric Sheep you, as a type 3, exemplified perfectly what I wanted to say.

    Look at your type description:

    3w2 so/sp
    3w2-6w7-1w2 so/sp
    3w2(sw2w1) - 6w7(sw5w6) - 1w2(sw9w1) so/sp

    the last line shows what is in my view the absurdity of exaggeration to which type 3 is addicted.

    id like to do an experiment with type 3s by locking them in a quiet calm forest in which very slow reggae music would be played non-stop and marijuana and water would be the only resources available for survival. most of them would die within the first 2 days of lack of frenzied activity.
    This is brilliant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    id like to do an experiment with type 3s by locking them in a quiet calm forest in which very slow reggae music would be played non-stop and marijuana and water would be the only resources available for survival. most of them would die within the first 2 days of lack of frenzied activity.
    lol what would 5's and 4's do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    the core type is always stronger than the wing. period. cant you see this? if the wing type is stronger, it is not the wing, it is the core type.
    Yes, putting it in bold means you are disagreeing with me, but I didn't say what you think I did. Having a strong wing doesn't mean it's stronger than the core. Why do you keep giving me shit anyway? Do you have a problem with 3s?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Example --

    What is the head triad?
    The head triad deals with issues of anxiety and uncertainity, it provides a copping mechanism to this problem that lies before people, it is concerned with mental energy and thought as the primary way to deal with this anxiety

    What are the instinctual variants?
    Instinctual variants are a way of categorizing particular instincts into a hierarchy of three. The instincts themselves are not ways of coping, but instead are instinctual ways means of survival. They are more or less survival strategies, that are instinctual in nature. Sexual is rooted in the ability to have something survive you beyond your death. Social is rooted in the ability to survive through help from a community. Self-perservation is rooted in the ability to hoarde and amass things and ideas more generally in order to survive.

    How are they connected?
    Only at the intersection of a very subconcious instinctual survival technique (the instinct) and the anxiety and uncertainity pertaining to it. However each instinct plays a role into the anxiety and uncertainity pertaining to it, rather than a single one in the hierarchy, for obvious reasons. Since anxiety and uncertainity issues are not solely focused on the ability to have something survive you, the ability to survive through help from a community, or the ability to amass provision. All of these can develop issues of anxiety the head trifix will deal with
    See, this is the sort of clear, insightful explanation I was looking for. Simply stating your conclusions with capslock on (like some here seem wont to do) is utterly unconvincing to me; I want to know the reasoning that lead people to those conclusions.

    Like I said, if anyone has any links to further reading on this subject, I would be grateful. I'm still learning all this Enneagram stuff.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    lol what would 5's and 4's do?
    5s would get to know 'MacGiver' ways of surviving, would end up making a jet out of marijuana and trees. That MacGiver (MacGyver?) guy was surely a 5.

    4s would just make some fun, smoke the whole marijuana and get out of the experiments converted to Rastafarianism - as theyre always looking for a specific tribe or trendy group to be part of.


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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Yes, putting it in bold means you are disagreeing with me, but I didn't say what you think I did. Having a strong wing doesn't mean it's stronger than the core. Why do you keep giving me shit anyway? Do you have a problem with 3s?
    sort of... but 3s have their qualities too. I had a very nice 3 girlfriend - who btw now lives and loves your sad 3 country you call 'america'.

    3s tend to be attracted to the USA like a magnet. it sucks! they must feel so at home there. lol.

    but I do like your avatar, its fun, Electric Sheep. nothing against you.

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    I can see the appeal that the US might have to outsiders, but I really want to leave, or at least live in another country for a few years. There's just no sense of solidarity here--everyone's out for themselves and I can't stand it.
    The saddest ESFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Yes, putting it in bold means you are disagreeing with me, but I didn't say what you think I did. Having a strong wing doesn't mean it's stronger than the core. Why do you keep giving me shit anyway? Do you have a problem with 3s?
    some three probably smoked all his weed and drank his water from hyper activity

    and ftr I don't think he has a problem with you but airborne just takes a slower approach to the enneagram and its understanding, he feels/thinks alot of extra things are made from jumping too quickly to conclusions.

    I kind of agree, but then again I don't think your contributions here are entirely worthless, so continue by all means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    See, this is the sort of clear, insightful explanation I was looking for. Simply stating your conclusions with capslock on (like some here seem wont to do) is utterly unconvincing to me; I want to know the reasoning that lead people to those conclusions.

    Like I said, if anyone has any links to further reading on this subject, I would be grateful. I'm still learning all this Enneagram stuff.
    Yea I am guilty of being lazy like that and stating conclusions, after all its a forum, and its hard to produce well structured arguments every time you have an idea.

    I think there is some value to realizing what realm your expressing yourself in, if your just making alot of intuitive leaps and thinking free form, or if your trying to construct a well structured argument or idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    I can see the appeal that the US might have to outsiders, but I really want to leave, or at least live in another country for a few years. There's just no sense of solidarity here--everyone's out for themselves and I can't stand it.
    Everyone out there in the US may look like there out there for themselves, but I am out there for you electric sheep.... Doing my LII thing and making the world a better place for the ESEs.... and in a very non-romantic pleutonic non-gay kind of way for the male ESEs.

    Anyways in all seriousness, america is very hyper-competitive, and modern society I think makes it worse. Were are you from btw, because if your in any kind of rural area, you don't have an idea of what its like to be bombarded by loads of hyper-competitive cynical opionated type-A people.... thats what its like in a city environment. I am from a large college in a decent sized city with really bad roads, so traffic is horrible, tons of people at my university, and enough people in the downtown area for me to get a taste of what its like. Traffic for one annoys me. Some people like to play golf or read a book to relax, I like to take a drive, roll down the window, listen to some music, drink a cup of coffe.... but traffic conditions ruin it alot of the time. I commute a 15 min drive to university and I get out of class (like today) at 5pm, so I basically get to spend the same drive which usually is 5-15 mins, I spend 1hr 15 mins to get back, and everyone cuts you off, etc.... I've been flicked off several times, and only for very minor things like changing lanes in a way they didn't like.

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    I grew up in LA, so I know all about pretentious jerks, and traffic. Now I'm in a college town Ohio where all the students want to look like they're from LA. Tanning booths and Abercrombie & Fitch are pretty big here. I dunno maybe seeing this bizarre replication of LA culture is making me want to leave even more. Achievement never really appealed to me, I just think it's like getting on the hamster wheel. You work hard to get far, then you have to work even harder, and soon you can't even enjoy what you've worked hard to get. Most rich people don't even care about what they have, they just care if they have more than their peers. I just want the good life.

    I think I tend to be really mellow for a 3 actually.
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    I live in a small town in rural Manitoba, filled with down-to-earth farmers and country folk. I know of these pretentious, superficial type people you guys are talking about from movies and TV. Cramming all those people together in such a small area can only have deleterious effects on a culture, in my opinion. Small towns have their own problems of course (gossip and wild rumours being the biggest), but as for me, the only way I'll ever make my abode in the city is if somebody buries my cold dead corpse in an urban grave.

    Or possibly for love, but that seems increasingly unlikely. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    I grew up in LA, so I know all about pretentious jerks, and traffic. Now I'm in a college town Ohio where all the students want to look like they're from LA. Tanning booths and Abercrombie & Fitch are pretty big here. I dunno maybe seeing this bizarre replication of LA culture is making me want to leave even more. Achievement never really appealed to me, I just think it's like getting on the hamster wheel. You work hard to get far, then you have to work even harder, and soon you can't even enjoy what you've worked hard to get. Most rich people don't even care about what they have, they just care if they have more than their peers. I just want the good life.

    I think I tend to be really mellow for a 3 actually.
    Is LA that bad? I always thought that the East Coast was more like super-driven-competitive. I've always felt like the only place in the US I could live is the San Diego - LA strip
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  31. #31
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    I like the city. I know it sucks, because like you said, electric sheep, everyone's out for themselves. But it's wonderful, because there's so much energy and passion and drive and will. I feel like people are more naked here because they're more desperate. Like, you see more of them leak out, even as they try to wrap themselves up in culture and convention and clothes. I couldn't live somewhere rural. Not enough noise.

    Are there countries where things are more communal? I think that would be better, except that communal living relies on everyone sharing the same beliefs, or at least a few core ones. The city is an excellent place for dissent, because we learn to tolerate it as necessary. When everyone is out for themselves and fighting with everyone else, we're freer to not believe in any of it and strike out on our own. I guess it's easier to rethinking everything in the city without having to become an Emily Dickinson-style recluse, maybe. Even WS visited New York (And Hartford isn't exactly rural).
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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  32. #32
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    But it's wonderful, because there's so much energy and passion and drive and will. I feel like people are more naked here because they're more desperate. Like, you see more of them leak out, even as they try to wrap themselves up in culture and convention and clothes. I couldn't live somewhere rural. Not enough noise.
    Yea I'd agree, but thats positive side... the city imo has two different aspects to its nature, one is the positive and the other the negative. This is a fairly good description of the positive, tons of people's lives intersect because there are so many people, there is alot of life, alot of culture, and its all forcibly exposed because its not easy to escape from the crowd, so you learn to manage that, sometimes it gets to you, but after so much pressure you just reflexively loosen up and express yourself. The negative description of it is all the cynicism that is cultivated, especially with conflicts, in rural areas its easy to be detached from the horrors of reality, but in the city, everyone is so compact there is no escape to the bad thing people do to each other, even the slight actions, and it jades the person. Both the positive and the negative are at work in the city, and thats what makes it a unique setting, and alot of art has come out of this. Alot of Jazz seems to me for whatever reason to express this kind of unique american big city new york 1930's mentality. It is filled with the cynicism of it and the positive side of it.



    I picture central park in october or something with this

    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    I grew up in LA, so I know all about pretentious jerks, and traffic. Now I'm in a college town Ohio where all the students want to look like they're from LA. Tanning booths and Abercrombie & Fitch are pretty big here. I dunno maybe seeing this bizarre replication of LA culture is making me want to leave even more. Achievement never really appealed to me, I just think it's like getting on the hamster wheel. You work hard to get far, then you have to work even harder, and soon you can't even enjoy what you've worked hard to get. Most rich people don't even care about what they have, they just care if they have more than their peers. I just want the good life.

    I think I tend to be really mellow for a 3 actually.
    Yea well I wasn't assuming you weren't from a big city, and well if your from LA you know alot about bad driving. I'm from Austin, TX... I go to the University of Texas there, so yea....

  33. #33
    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Is LA that bad? I always thought that the East Coast was more like super-driven-competitive. I've always felt like the only place in the US I could live is the San Diego - LA strip
    LA is full of snobs, but cities are diverse places. Just when you think everyone's caught up in one thing you find people that aren't. I'd go with San Francisco or San Diego though.
    The saddest ESFj

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