explanation of my SLE typing

[Joy]

Some people's types are obvious. You meet them and you're instantly like, "That's a slam dunk SEI" (or whatever the case might be). Some people's types aren't immediately obvious, but after observing them and considering various options, their type becomes reasonably clear. Some people, however, seem to have contradictory traits that obscure their type. You might be able to determine that they value this or that or that they're sensory or ethical (or whatever the case might be), but it's still extremely difficult to narrow their type down to one thing.

I believe that with these difficult-to-impossible-to-type-with-confidence people, the issue is generally that they're not acting primarily out of their ego block. For anyone who hasn't read Rick's article about awakening the ego, I strongly encourage you to do so. The basic idea is that different people/types expect different things out of you, and you're likely to alter your behavior in order to get along with or interact with them. The only type who needs you to be EXACTLY who you are is your dual. If you don't spent time around your dual, then chances are good that you'll develop behavior patterns that are atypical of "dualized" people of your type.

The reason I'm saying all of this is because I believe I'm one of those people. I had a large degree of confidence in my LIE typing for years, but at the same time I was mildly depressed and identified more with the negative aspects of my understanding of the typing than the positive aspects. I also attributed things to an understanding of temperaments that was most likely inaccurate. (There are other explanations for my proactive nature.) I knew I was a logical type (because I'm very comfortable with Te/Ti and totally miss or mess up Fi/Fe) and that I value Se, but the other aspects of my typing were based largely on the assumption that symptoms of depression were weak Se and Si.

Back in August I met a "slam dunk" IEI. We gradually became friends and are now pretty close. I questioned my type at the time because it didn't feel like we had an asymmetrical intertype relation. I valued his input as much as he valued mine. I was also finding that when my Se was needed and encouraged, it seemed a hell of a lot stronger than I had previously considered it. I decided at the time that it was probably just that hanging out with your supervisee makes you feel like your 6th function is stronger than it actually is, and that areas of compatibility not related to Socionics were most likely responsible for how well this IEI were getting along.

The more I interacted with him, however (which wasn't really all that much until January or so), the more clear it became that being around him was bringing out sides of me that had been subdued for a very long time. Or perhaps always. (See these two posts for brief descriptions of some of what I was experiencing: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/612354-post10.html and http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/612358-post12.html) I found that my IEI friend was very in need of (and very appreciative of) my input on practical matters, scientific topics, and "Se things". (I'll describe what I mean by "Se things" later.) It was great to have someone need and appreciate that kind of input from me. And the more I offered it, the happier and healthier I felt. At the same time, however, I was finding that when I tried to act the same way at home, my input was criticized. I was also being criticized more at home for being impulsive, insensitive, rude, and immoral (because I gave more consideration to the practical aspects of various situations, such as dealing with problems with my son, than the subjective ethical/moral perspective).

I also found that I needed and appreciated his input as much as he needed and appreciated mine. He always seemed to say exactly the right thing, and he often offered a perspective on something that I would have never come up with on my own, a perspective that really helped clarify things or made me realize important aspects of a situation that I had entirely overlooked. It was always very refreshing being around him. While I was used to spending most of my time around people who were very stern, academic, and critical, being around him was very enjoyable and freeing. I had been having a lot of trouble managing stress, but being around him seemed to diffuse the stress and allowed me to be more productive.

Basically, when I'm at my best, I'm SeTi. The things that I love it when other people appreciate in me are Se and Ti. The things I need are Ni (though I'm still working out exactly what Ni is and how it manifests, tbh) and Fe (this one is MUCH more clear). I realize that all of this is subjective, but this whole "awakening the ego" thing makes perfect sense. I have no reasonable doubt that I might be any other type.

Of course, it all makes perfect sense when I break it down in Model A, too... (additional posts to follow)

[Joy]

Se: Much of what I want to say about Se correlates to the wikisocion description of Se in SLE's, so I'll quote that and provide explanations.

SLEs are strong-willed, independently-minded individuals who are able to recognize levels of willpower and motivation in others.

Yes. When someone is saying that they want to do something, I can easily perceive their level of readiness to act and whether they actually have the resolve necessary to complete their objective. When they have a problem, I can tell whether they're currently willing to put forth the necessary action in order to resolve it. When people are stalling on remedying a situation or completing a goal, I automatically attribute it to their lack of will. One of the most common things I say to people is, "So fix it."

They are almost always collected and ready for action.

If it needs to be done, just fucking do it. Obstacles are not weighed too heavily in my mind. Where there's a will, there's a way. So fix it. Yeah, you may encounter problems, but so what. That's just part of the process.

They are adept at organizing others effectively towards any given objective

If something needs to be done (or if people want to do it), then I determine the most expedient course of action and try to get things going. Telling people (even my bosses) at work what needs to get done is natural to me. I'm also the one who organizes people in social situations when we want or need to do something. Everyone else is too slow, lol.

and have no problem "getting the job done," even if it requires stepping on a few toes.

I'm not sure what "stepping on a few toes" means. I'm direct and professional, but I haven't had anyone complain that I'm crossing boundaries or being too bossy or whatever. I recognize that in order to get people to do stuff when I ask, I need to be respective and appreciative towards them. Having disgruntled teammates leads to difficulty organizing activities that need to get done. My managers know they can count on my to handle many of the organizational aspects of the shift and are happy that I do because it makes their jobs a lot easier. Just today my shift manager commented that she loves working with me because she doesn't have to worry about stuff getting done properly when I'm there.

This makes me a valuable employee, and as such I'm given the best shifts, get off any time I ask off, and pretty much just do whatever I want to do without anyone being bothered by it. I know which rules I can break and which ones are important, so I never get in trouble for anything. I ignore tasks that I'm supposed to do when it makes sense for me to do something else instead. And when a manager is simply wrong about something, I explain why and they generally go along with what I'm saying. There have also been numerous times when I've brought problems with the way things are being run or ideas to solve problems to the attention of the management, and they've taken my suggestions. (This might also be related to strong Te though.)

They will take the initiative and act at the opportune moment. SLEs will often act without complete information, improvising as they go, but are successful nonetheless.

You don't need complete information in order to act. Getting started is the important thing. If problems arise, they can be dealt with. Just have a general idea of the rules, policies, and procedures involved so you know how to move with relative safety within the system.

Instability energizes them, as they are active people who think clearly on the move and tend to be unsatisfied with a stationary, peaceful lifestyle.

I've always said that I'm someone who needs a little adventure in my day. Instability is energizing because it calls for action. It's also a challenge, and I love challenges.

SLEs easily spot power dynamics within any given structure, hierarchy or relationship

Always.

and strive for a secure position where they are less subordinate to others.

This part I'm not as concerned about. For instance, there's a woman I work with who has been with the company for 40 years, and she's what you'd call a sour apple. Not happy unless she's not happy. Highly critical. Has to have things done a certain way. Needs to have her seniority recognized. I have learned that when I'm dealing with her, I should treat her as though she's in a superior position. I don't have a problem doing this because it's how someone like her needs to be managed. Let her feel like she's in charge (even though she's not... I clearly have more power/influence than she does). That's fine.

She can be pretty confrontational, and I'm not afraid of confrontation by any means... I just know that in order to get what I need from her, I have to show her a certain type of respect that's important to her. If we ever truly disagreed on something and I found it important enough to make a stand, I would certainly feel comfortable doing so. However, this has not yet happened.

I will say though that in the past I was very easily drawn into (and probably even created) power struggles quite frequently.

At the same time, SLEs are comfortable with hierarchies, and recognize that they are a necessary part of everyday life. SLEs may sometimes seem dismissive of those of a lower social status, as if they were weak or inferior in some way. Likewise, they see dependence as weakness, and so strive to minimize their dependence on others, especially in their personal relationships.

Yep.

I will admit that I like people who listen to what I tell them to do though. Friends/coworkers/significant others... whatever. If I say that they should or shouldn't do something and give them my reasons for doing so and they generally appreciate my input and do what I've suggested, it feels good.

SLEs' energetic and direct nature tends to make them natural leaders. They are quick to assume this role, even in alien or unfamiliar environments. They usually adopt a direct administrative style and build a bureaucratic structure beneath them over time.

Yep.

They will take full responsibility for their actions, and understand these terms when they take a leadership-based role within a group, company or organization as being part of what leadership is about.

Absolutely. I would even go a step beyond that and say that I'm not just responsible for my actions, but also for the success or failure of my team. If my team is not performing properly, it is because I have not led them properly.

SLEs are highly observant and take note of all the objects present in their surroundings.

Yes. I'm always taking notice of things around me. That car is parked right on that other cars bumper, that tree has a downed limb, the cracks in the sidewalk, that person's socks don't match, that car has a low tire, that building is an unusual color, there's a water stain on the ceiling (this may be from being a home inspector though), that guy is riding an expensive bike, that girl's eyebrows are over-plucked, etc. These observations aren't usually something I generally think much about, but I see them nonetheless. I also notice the location of items that I may have wandered past earlier without paying any specific attention to and when an object is out of place, etc.

They are well aware of which objects they have, and which they want, and tend to be possessive of their property. At the same time, they also have a generous streak and can easily bestow gifts and share their property with others to demonstrate acceptance of the other person or people.

Very true.




Other things I've attributed to Se are my "life is what you make it" attitude, my "so fix it" approach to problems and desires, my direct approach in dealing with people and situations, and my "fortune favors the bold" mentality. "Make it happen." If there's something I want, I head straight for it. When people are having problems, I often recognize that the underlying issue is lack of will. I encourage them to take full ownership of their problems and responsibility for their life and resolve to do what needs to be done in order to accomplish their objective. Man up and deal with it. Be decisive and confident. If you have that mentality, you'll be able to overcome obstacles as they come along.

[Joy]

Ti: Everything written here describes me except the part about refusing to take other people's advice. I like to consider the advice of others and try to determine why they're saying what they are. I don't have a problem admitting I'm wrong if I indeed am wrong, but there's generally a system of reasons behind why I think what I do, so in order to show me that I'm wrong, the person will either need to show me that one of my premises is flawed, that my information is incorrect, or introduce important information that I hadn't considered/been aware of. I've been told that I "have to be right" before, but it's not a matter of having to be right at all. It's a matter of having to get to the bottom of it. It's about what's right, not who's right. I also know that I can come across as rather... intense (some might say forceful)... when I'm presenting the case for something. It's not because I'm trying to force anyone into anything or prove that I'm right. It's their life and their mind and they can do and think what they want. It's just that I want to be sure that I'm communicating clearly if I feel I have good reasons for saying what I'm saying. I've found that sometimes with the aforementioned IEI, all I have to do is present my perspective on it (relating it to my experiences) and give my reasoning for it without directly relating it to his situation or behavior, and he'll accept it and sometimes even adopt it as his own to the extent that he'll later tell me that he's come to the same conclusion and give me the exact same reasons I gave him in our previous conversation, seeming to have completely forgotten that we'd ever had a conversation about it. (An SEI I work with does this sometimes too. I find it endearing, and I never say "yeah I know, I'm the one who told you that, remember?". lol) Sometimes I just flat out tell him what he should do though, and if I do that it's because I am very certain of the best course of action in the situation (and I do briefly explain the reason I am saying to do it). When I do this, he just does what I've told him he should do. I think I might be getting off of discussions about Ti now though and into how Se + Ti covers for weak Te in IEI's. So anyways...

Another thing that I relate to Ti is the way my thought processes work. I understand material in classes best when I create an outline (that is, a is under 1 which is under A which is under I), and when I'm given new information, I attach it to a related point of reference already existing in my brain. This way of mentally cataloging information makes it easier to understand and recall it. I think everyone does this though? I mean, isn't that just how memory and information processing in humans works? That said, I've found that others aren't always "naturals" at forming these connections. I'm good at teaching people things because I can get a feel for their frame of reference, what they do and don't already understand, and then show them how new information relates to their existing frame of reference. (Isn't this what all teachers are supposed to be doing though? Just throwing information at a student is useless if they have no way to integrate it. I guess some teachers just leave integrating the information up to the students though. Teachers who do this AND also frequently go off on unrelated tangents and then jump back to the material or to the next topic while they're presenting the information annoy me.) I also give people little tricks to remember things, such as another word that it sounds like or acronyms.

I am always very aware of the rules, policies, and procedures of any organization I am dealing with, whether it's the law or work or a class. It's important to me to understand both the reasons those rules/procedures exist and the likely consequences of breaking them. The ones I agree with I adopt, and I remind others of them when they're breaking them (generally explaining why that rule exists or what might happen if they break it). Sometimes I do it in a "technically it's supposed to be done this way" or "you're not technically supposed to do that" kind of way followed up by my own thoughts on the matter, including how important the rule is. When someone breaks a rule/law, my thoughts generally turn to how the rule is enforced or what recourse is available within that and related systems (whether it's the recourse for those enforcing the rules, those somehow hurt because the rule has been broken, or the one breaking the rule who must now find a way to respond to the rule's enforcement). If I do not have this information, I quickly obtain it. I either look it up myself or ask someone. The person I ask is selected based on their understanding of the rules AND their position in regards to either helping or hindering me (or the person involved) towards their objective based on their level of power and interests in the situation.

When I think that the reasoning behind rules/policies/procedures doesn't make sense, I either ignore them, obey them simply because I'm aware of the consequences of not obeying them, revise them for my own personal use, or appeal to those with the power to change them (making sure that I'm not missing information related to the reasoning behind the rule/policy/procedure and explaining my own reasoning related to it).

An example of my focus on Ti that many of you may be familiar with is my approach to Socionics. I've posted many topics over the years on Model A, breaking it down this way and that way with various information elements plugged into it, for example looking at the relationships between the 3rd and 5th functions in an individual or the interaction between 3rd and 7th functions in a dual pair. I've posted a lot of topics comparing similar information elements as well, such as Te and Fe, finding it more useful to examine the contrasts between two similar information elements than to simply discuss one of them in and of itself. I've posted many topics on that whole external vs. internal, static vs. dynamic, and objects vs. fields subject. When I was learning about the second, third, and fourth tier dichotomies, I posted topics about each of them to try to explain/learn about and discuss each dichotomy set. I've also posted topics focusing on the four temperaments and how they're different from and relate to each other. I don't know if anyone's noticed this, but I've also always created lists of types in the same order: ILE, SEI, ESE, LII, SLE, IEI, EIE, LSI, LIE, ESI, SEE, ILI, LSE, EII, IEE, SLI... see the pattern? Yes, Socionics itself is a very Ti subject in general, but I think I've focused more on the Ti aspects of it than many if not most of the other posters over the years have. I may not get as in depth with it as some of the Alpha NT's, especially the LII's, have (and I may have largely drowned out my "Ti focused topics" with a multitude of asinine topics and posts), but all of the stuff I said above remains.



I've always known that this stuff is related to strong Ti, but because I'm so comfortable in dismissing rules/policies/procedures that I don't agree with and altering my own Ti "mental structures", I figured that this was Ti ignoring. I also related Ti to too large an extent to the Ti + Ne I observed on the forum and irl, which is something I don't entirely identify with (obviously). I do feel that Ti is a primary area of focus and confidence in me though.

[Joy]

Ne: To be perfectly honest, I don't identify with much of the wikisocion description of Ne in SLE's.

SLEs are largely unaware of others' hidden potential and abilities, since they size up people based on visible qualities and behavior. As a result, their judgments of people may appear simplistic or one-dimensional, and they may seriously misjudge or underestimate the capabilities of others, leading to surprises and sometimes rude awakenings.

I think I'm actually pretty good at being aware of what others could be good at. Yes, I'm basing this on behavior and qualities I'm seeing, but I can recognize leadership qualities in others (maybe that's just Se though) and can see when all it would take for someone to make use of their abilities is their resolve to do so and confidence that they can (that's just Se too, I suppose). I can also tell when someone has the potential to be a threat. I might not know why, but I often get a sense that someone is dangerous or shady. And I think I'm usually right when I perceive these potential threats (and unfortunately am often proven right). Is that just Se and Ti though? Am I building a Ti concept of a person's character based on little things and considering that if they're willing to be shady or disrespectful or greedy in one way that they're likely going to have it within them to be shady/disrespectful/greedy in larger ways, given the right opportunity/circumstances?

I will add though that my IEI friend often thinks I am too suspicious of people. I answer by telling him that if the person was going to cause a problem (whether because they're shady or because they might have certain interests in the situation that could be problematic), they might be in a position to do so because of this or that. He often responds that I worry too much, though after I've explained what I'm seeing he sometimes takes heed. I see this as Ne ignoring/Ni dominance balancing out my Ne role. More on this later.

I guess I'm saying that if I'm missing some aspect of this as described on wikisocion, I'm not aware of it.

Likewise, SLEs may fail to recognize long-term opportunities in the world around them as they pursue the more readily visible and immediately available routes to success.

Again, if I'm missing some aspect of this, I'm not aware of it. I do like to know that my plans are practical and do research to determine if they are.

My previous plans to build a real estate empire (and make a good income doing home inspections), for example, would have worked exactly as planned if the lending and housing market had stayed as it was when I developed those plans. Unfortunately, I didn't understand economics very well at the time and thought that those who warned of a coming crash in the real estate market were just being paranoid or pessimistic. I will not make the same mistake again. I'm planning on going to dental school and becoming a dentist, but I'm going to be paying close attention to the health care industry and will read about predicted economic changes related to it before I actually enroll in dental school. I have to get my BS first anyways, so I have some time to see how things are playing out and decide if it's still a wise course of action. If I decide at that point that going to dental school is no longer as much a "sure fire success" as I am comfortable with, I will at least have a BS that I can do something else with. Part of me fears that as a biology major most of my opportunities will be in lab work, which I don't think I would enjoy, but I figure there are a lot of managerial positions out there that require a four year degree and aren't fussy about what your major was.

To make up for their weakness in assessment of possibilities, SLEs may hesitate to act, believing that they are increasing the amount of opportunities they will have. Instead, they end up using none, thus failing to attain the results they were aiming for. In this sense, the SLE would have been much better off following his instincts in the first place. Many SLEs are aware of this, and simply prefer not to search for hidden opportunities and avoid this weakness altogether.

This I don't identify with at all, and I think this is generally much more accurate of Ne PoLR types than of Ne Role types. EP's are impulsive in general, and if anything I'd say that Se dominants are too quick to act. (However, I could see "undualized" Se dominants, especially those with primarily Ne/Si ego types around them, acting as described.)

I believe that decisive action is important, even if I don't see or have any way of knowing all of the possible outcomes. Fortune favors the bold. I'd rather make mistakes than do nothing at all. Inaction is far too costly. I tend to pick a course of action and then head straight for it, not weighing obstacles (such as unforeseen possibilities) too heavily. Obstacles are a certainty in life, after all, and I take the attitude of simply bulldozing straight through them. I may not know how I'll do it, but I am confident that I will. I attribute this to Se, and I can see how Ni balances it out. Ni is strongly aware of obstacles and often sees them as impenetrable or immovable, opting instead to avoid them or wait until they go away. While I am comfortable dealing with obstacles head on, there are times when I may be too quick to do so and could benefit from someone telling me that it makes more sense to steer around the obstacle or just have patience. I don't have to do anything or decide anything right now.

When it comes to future planning, SLEs speak with confidence and apparent optimism, although in actuality, they rarely feel confident in positive outcomes and further possibilities.

I do speak with confidence and optimism, but I feel they are genuine. I do have doubts as to whether my objective will no longer be lucrative or otherwise desirable once I have obtained it though.

They may also consider advanced planning unnecessary for trivial circumstances, as they prefer to act impulsively.

I'm pretty bad about this, lol. I don't consider it a flaw though. I tend to feel I have a grasp on which things require planning and which things you can deal with as they come up. "We'll cross that bridge when we get there." I think this confidence that I'll be able to deal with whatever comes up is also a Se thing, though I use Ti to determine which things require how much immediate attention.

I will add that this tendency did drive an Ne PoLR/Ni hidden agenda ex of mine crazy. When my IEI friend has doubts or worries, the way I trivialize them gives him courage to act. When my xSI ex had doubts or worries, my "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" or "whatever, if that happens we'll just find a way to deal with it then" approach only made him more anxious about the situation. He worried that I was overlooking some big flaw in my plans or that something we had no way of anticipating would come out of left field and cause problems, and I was like, "Well if I am then I have no way of knowing it, so what good does it do to worry about it?" His criticism toward my approach was frustrating because I was essentially being told that my Se was inadequate without being offered any type of solution.

Despite their highly observant nature, SLEs are careful to avoid appearing too eager for knowledge. They become suspicious when others are overly curious about them and ask too many searching questions. SLEs are more comfortable asking and responding to specific questions that are relevant to the context rather than general ones whose purpose is unknown. When the information being exchanged is too broad and general, SLEs may wonder what the point is or whether someone is planning to use that information to take advantage of them.

Sure?

Concerns about revealing too much information about themselves and their activities sometimes makes SLEs appear paranoid and secretive.

Probably.


Now, jumping back to what I was saying about Ne ignoring/Ni dominance balancing out a Ne role, I would like to address the nature of the Role function. I've always thought that the Role is something that we feel we must do in order to get by in the world, but that we're not good at it. The wikisocion description focuses primarily on how weak Ne manifests itself in SLE's, but it doesn't really address the nature of how SLE's feel they must use Ne in order to get by the world. I think that in worrying that there are possibilities that must be taken into account (and not being aware of which ones are actually likely to be a problem, Ni) SLE's (at least some of them) are actually paranoid about various possibilities, partially concerning breaking rules/laws (as rules/laws tends to be a focus for them) and especially concerning how people are going to feel or react to things. This is where NiFe (and Ne ignoring) comes in and helps them. My IEI friend, as I stated before, tells me that I worry too much for this reason. When he tells me that I'm worrying about something I don't need to worry about, I explain my reasons for worrying about it (often related to Ti). Sometimes he says that I have a good point and changes his perspective on it as well, and sometimes he explains the situation in a way that makes me realize that I am worrying needlessly and that things are going to be fine. Often we come up with another plan that takes the valid parts of my concerns into account while still accomplishing what we want to do. Other times we decide to just scrap the plan altogether. (There are also times when he points out problems with a plan and we either alter it or scrap it.)

[Joy]

Fi: My Fi sucks. It's definitely NOT an area of confidence. And I've experienced a lot of problems throughout my life due to weak Fi. I don't want to get too in depth about the details here, but I'll just say that I'm horrible at knowing how people feel about me (or how I feel about them), I'm confounded when people try to tell me that something is right or wrong without being able to give me a clear reason as to why, I generally think in terms of "good idea" or "bad idea" rather than right vs. wrong, I don't feel comfortable determining that someone is a "good person" or "evil person", I'm suspicious (even paranoid) about other people's intentions for and feelings towards me, I'm often unclear about what behavior is appropriate in a given situation, etc.

Bottom line: I suck at Fi enormously and it has caused a great deal of trouble for me. It's an area that I have a severe lack of confidence in, which has sucked. A lot. I've decided to start focusing more on my strengths though.

[1981slater]

Your Fe hidden agenda will overflow the whole internet, Joy!

[Joy]

Your Fe hidden agenda will overflow the whole internet, Joy!

zomg open the flood gates!!!

[Joy]

Ni: This is the information element that I understand the least. Everything about my thought processes that I had attributed to Ni I've now realized was Ti, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how Ni actually presents itself. I have mentioned it in a few of my previous posts (as it relates to Se and Ne), and aside from that I'll just say that I fully identify with the wikisocion description of Ni in SLE's.

[Joy]

Fe: I identify 100% with all of the wikisocion description of Fe in SLE's, except one part:

SLEs are unable to suppress the manifestations of their moods, and thus greatly appreciate individuals who can deal with their sudden, uncontrollable outbursts of emotions.

Negative. If I'm upset, I become quiet and withdrawn. I used to have these uncontrolled outbursts, but they were met with severe criticism by both of my previous relationships (which in total represent the last eight years of my life), so I learned not to blow up for the most part. It would still happen on occasion, but not very often. Exceptions would be if I was already in a bad mood and was having trouble with some stupid little task that should not be as difficult as it was proving to be. In that case I'd yell and curse... not at someone but just out of frustration. I don't do that much anymore these days, either.

Additionally, at this point it's difficult to upset me. I take most things in stride. I'm one of the least easily offended people I know, and I recognize that there are very few things that are worth getting upset over.

For many SLEs, expressive activities such as acting, musical performance or even religion serve as ideal "ethical vents", helping to give them the emotional release they struggle to find in other areas of society.

For me it's music.

Apart from the things mentioned in the wikisocion description, I would like to add that I find being around Fe creatives very freeing and refreshing. They boost my mood considerably and diffuse stress. This is invaluable to me. A fun or relaxed atmosphere is something I had experienced very little of until I started hanging out with my IEI friend and spending time at work with a couple of SEI's there.

I will add that I've found that I am FAR more effective and productive when I have someone offering me Fe to help me manage stress. I can accomplish a lot and make short work of what many would consider to be large problems as long as I am not totally stressed out. A little bit of creative Fe works wonders for diffusing my stress.

Additionally, pretty much everything I've said negatively about Fe in my time on the forum has been based on interactions with ESE's. While I find them funny and enjoy them in small doses, overall they're annoying to deal with and their form of Fe tires and bores and annoys me more than it amuses me.

[Joy]

Si: Things I had previously attributed to a Si PoLR in myself I now readily recognize as mere symptoms of depression. I don't have trouble with any of them anymore.

I identify entirely with the wikisocion description of Si in SLE's. I will add a few things though.

First of all, I feel that pain and discomfort are things that are to be subordinated to my will. I have an extremely high tolerance for pain (according to various people in health care professions that I've dealt with over the years, such as dentists and massage therapists). This ability to subordinate discomfort to my will makes accomplishing objectives such as losing weight easy for me once I've resolved to do it.

Secondly, I'm well aware of how to take care of my body properly. I just do what makes sense and don't focus on it all that much. If it feels like I'm coming down with something, I'll sleep extra and take vitamin c and zinc. No need to make a fuss about it. On the subject of sleep, if I don't sleep much (or at all) for one night, and I can function just fine the next day. If I haven't been sleeping enough over a period of time, however, then I'll feel run down and know I need to start sleeping more, and I'll do it.

Aesthetics in my surroundings are something I focus on to a very limited extent. I appreciate things like nice furniture, flattering clothes, and a comfortable bed, but those things aren't a huge focus for me. One thing I do value though is fresh air and natural light in my house while I'm there. And I hate dog hair. My dogs are moving out in a month and a half, and I will NEVER again own a pet that sheds.

I'm good at cooking when I choose to do it, but that's not very often. I see food as fuel for the most part. When I do cook these days, it's social. I'm showing off my skills, lol.

I know when I look good and when I don't. I hadn't looked good for a few years now, but at this point I've lost enough weight to be confident in my appearance again.

Basically, I generally take a goal oriented approach to health issues or bodily conditions. If there's a problem, I fix it. No need to fuss or worry.

There's another aspect to Si that I think is often overlooked, and that is mechanical aptitude (whether the "machine" is a car or the human body or something that needs to be put together or anything else of the sort). These are things that I have little patience for, generally speaking. I can deal with them when I need to though. I do find the operations of the human body interesting, but that's more of a scientific and/or a goal seeking interest.

[thePirate]

Its not like this was even neccessary but this only further cements that you are NOT an SLE. First off, what kind of fucking SLE would write pages upon pages defending their type? An SLE more or less would not give a damn and certainly would not write to this massive degree about it. Neither would they have a manga character as their avatar, or rate anime in their spare time.

I find it silly to even engage this topic, typing through wikisocion is not that great of an approach to finding your type. They dont capture certain subtleties that can only be experienced when interacting with certain types.

Your breakdown for example: despite agreeing with almost everything you show no signs of SLE communication, you do not talk or write like them. You may be agreeing with what you perceive these certain elements to be like, yet you do not convey an affinity to them with your tone of writing. Also the way in which you relate to them seems VERY superficial to me. Basically, your word in embodying them is all that is seen. Actually embodying them is the key component your lacking.

Another thing is you say you need Ni but dont even know what it is. This statement is fucking ridiculous to me.



"I am always very aware of the rules, policies, and procedures of any organization I am dealing with, whether it's the law or work or a class. It's important to me to understand both the reasons those rules/procedures exist and the likely consequences of breaking them. The ones I agree with I adopt, and I remind others of them when they're breaking them (generally explaining why that rule exists or what might happen if they break it). Sometimes I do it in a "technically it's supposed to be done this way" or "you're not technically supposed to do that" kind of way followed up by my own thoughts on the matter, including how important the rule is. When someone breaks a rule/law, my thoughts generally turn to how the rule is enforced or what recourse is available within that and related systems (whether it's the recourse for those enforcing the rules, those somehow hurt because the rule has been broken, or the one breaking the rule who must now find a way to respond to the rule's enforcement). If I do not have this information, I quickly obtain it. I either look it up myself or ask someone. The person I ask is selected based on their understanding of the rules AND their position in regards to either helping or hindering me (or the person involved) towards their objective based on their level of power and interests in the situation."

is indicative of SeTi? you remind others when their breaking rules? really?


"Yes, I'm basing this on behavior and qualities I'm seeing, but I can recognize leadership qualities in others (maybe that's just Se though) and can see when all it would take for someone to make use of their abilities is their resolve to do so and confidence that they can (that's just Se too, I suppose). "

No, its not. WTF

[Joy]

Well I'm definitely logical (as I focus on and have confidence in Te and Ti but not in Fe or Fi) and value Se... and I'm definitely not ILI... so that only leaves three options. I'm not worried about it though. I posted an explanation of my typing in case anyone was interested in hearing it, but I'm not "searching" for my type and see no reason to. I think SLE fits, and it doesn't matter to me if posters here agree or disagree.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

How are we duals? I just am not seeing that....

You change your type so much Joy. this is like the 23439473th time you changed it. So you will be SLE until you are ISTj again or something.

The descriptions are too vague. Everybody is all those qualities in the right circumstances....

But I think that other people shouldn't judge you too much either, I mean we all sort of show a different sides of ourselves that this forum brings out that isn't necessarily related to who we are (but that doesn't mean everybody is faking it or putting on a 'social mask' either)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Or, you could 'fanwank' it and say that my personal dislike for you stems from the fact that I, as a 6, disintegrate to 3 and you're a 3 soooo lol.

To be perfectly blunt, I think it's because you sort of have that 'bossy mommy' vibe to you, like the stereotypical mother of every male that's in middle-class therapy. This could just be my perception though so don't take it the wrong way. I mean I don't really want to use a 'theory' to mask my personal distaste for you, or why I feel there's this sudden 'roadblock' to us getting along, personally. Even if I agree with you, I think the age difference or something would always make me feel like 'you're the teacher' and 'I'm the student.'

We both sort of like epic rpgs though? Or something.

[Joy]

Or, you could 'fanwank' it and say that my personal dislike for you stems from the fact that I, as a 6, disintegrate to 3 and you're a 3 soooo lol.

To be perfectly blunt, I think it's because you sort of have that 'bossy mommy' vibe to you, like the stereotypical mother of every male that's in middle-class therapy. This could just be my perception though so don't take it the wrong way. I mean I don't really want to use a 'theory' to mask my personal distaste for you, or why I feel there's this sudden 'roadblock' to us getting along, personally. Even if I agree with you, I think the age difference or something would always make me feel like 'you're the teacher' and 'I'm the student.'

Yeah... Lately I actually feel like I'm like that too much in general, too.

We both sort of like epic rpgs though? Or something.

[Joy]

You change your type so much Joy. this is like the 23439473th time you changed it. So you will be SLE until you are ISTj again or something.

I haven't actually "changed my type" for like 4 years except from LIE to SLE. I was just joking about being LSI when it was in my sig a few months ago.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Really from where I'm standing it just seems like you're the type of person that needs to feel uhh morally certain about stuff. You need to like, know you're making a difference. I don't think you can say 'well isn't everybody like that?' Because they really aren't.

I say you're more 1ish than 3, really...

[Joy]

Really from where I'm standing it just seems like you're the type of person that needs to feel uhh morally certain about stuff. You need to like, know you're making a difference. I don't think you can say 'well isn't everybody like that?' Because they really aren't.

I say you're more 1ish than 3, really...

Really? Interesting. I don't feel that way at all. Sure it feels good to have a positive impact on people, but it's not something I think about all that much. And I'm never morally certain about anything. I do have something of a concept of a moral system, but it's too vague to really be applicable, and it's not something I focus on. It's just something I came up with in response to issues discussed in my philosophy class.