Help

[reclaimpower]

I am new here. Okay, I have been studying socionics for three years. I have been able to help friends identify their type (only help, they usually are very certain of who they are it seems) yet I find it very difficult to come to conclusions of my own type. So please help me. I do not have a picture or camera, so v.i. is difficult to produce, I can however try to describe my face if any require it. I am a male.

As for habits, I am usually quiet, I seem monotone, and stoic to those who do not know me well. I dress usually in all black, but once in a while grey, dark red or brown to mix things up. I will not wear a shirt with an advertisement of any kind, even a brand, unless it is something like a band I like or something to support a friend's cause. My clothes do not fit well, I also wear a leather jacket, sometimes trench coat. The trench coat was originally a joke, but when I was in highschool a kid called his father who was a cop and demanded that the principal forbid me to wear it believing me to be a terrorist, the principal spoke to me, said he could not in good conscience tell me not to wear it and said to do whatever I want, since I did not know who the kid was so could not thank him for wasting my time, I wore the duster every single day, whether it was hot or cold as an "F you" to the moron. I do not do goth, emo or stereotypes so please get that out of your head. I only feel comfortable in dark colors, it is not to portray a certain image, but entirely for my own comfort level. Bright colors feel vulnerable and too loud. I walk with one foot in front of the other like on a tightrope. I do not know why, but I have been ridiculed for it so had to continue this behavior. I have bad posture. I am very sensitve to criticism, but at the same time I feel violated when I let others influence my decisions, so I tend to be miserable when I am ridiculed, but dig my heels in even deeper in doing whatever I was ridiculed for. I do not like verbal confrontation however, I am terrible at it, and consider statements such as "I'll shove my size 12 up your a-hole" entirely unnecessary and pretentious.

I am torn between the real world and the supernatural. On the one had, I crave sensational experiences and believe that the real world is more important. On the other hand, I can not keep my mind from considering things such as mysticism, animal spirit guides, astrology numerology etc. Though I do not have a defined belief on how the world woks or any particular system I adhere to. I get bored and feel encaged without mental stimulus, but then feel the same when my body goes without attention or stimulation either.

Most of my friends are ILI or IEI. I do not know what my best friend is. We are similar yet opposites in many ways. She has facial features similar to Angelina Jolie, Olivia Wilde, and Cristina Scabbia. Her nose gets wider as it gets lower and is flat yet curved at the bottom, her face is symmetrical with sharp cheek bones, she has eyes that challenge you one moment, then disarms you with a playful manner then next. She is usually considered attractive by the opposite sex. Is sensual, and has animal magnetism. She is energetic, lustful for adventure, passionate and strong willed. But she is also very sentimental, and almost childlike sometimes endearingly so the more you get to know her. She fears weakness, and admires strength and assertiveness. Her boyfriends are always aggressive. She often tries to push me to be more assertive, and relates me to her younger, more timid self, ironically she is younger than me, but was forced onto the streets at 15, around the time we met, so has much world experience. She has considerable depth which is not always aparent at first due to a playful exhibtionist persona, and loves imagination/creativity though doubts her own abilities, abhors conformism and is skilled in calculating her actions, yet seems governed by the feelings of the moment and is highly improvational, seeming to make plans, only to forgo them with action. She shows much genuine emotion, but knows how to fake them too. Yet she also is very precise when it comes to things making sense, and dislikes actions that don't. She does however prefer to be sincere, and will base decisions out of love or loyalty, even if they seem foolish or will cost her much. She cannot "waste a day" even if it means sleeping only for 3 hours. We have never argued in person, it is only through text or email that we get confused. In person we use body language, tones, gestures, and can finish each others sentences this way. Both of us are paranoid, afraid to lose control of ourselves, and often question whether the other cares having severe doubts in any and every relationship we have. We immediately sympathise, even become protective of each other over minor statements, often frustrating her boyfriend to no end. She cannot go without a romantic partner more than 2 days, or becomes pessimistic and depressed. I do not do romance however, even when someone I am attracted to shows interest in me, I become cold, or never speak to them again. I do however love romantic movies and encourage my friends to find love.

I am usually very serious. I do not lose arguments, but I seldom win them either. I apologize frequently when trying to show good will to others, but will not apologize to an authority figure unless they have earned my respect. An apology is a reflex or a tool to me, I believe regret is a waste of time. I am concerned with sincerity in everything else however, and am very willing to give to a friend, only friends. I do not however do debts. I either give completely, without being paid back, or I will do nothing for the person. Halfway attempts and gestures piss me off. I will never compromise unless it is with my best friend. Oh and I am terribly rude toward any missionary, no matter how polite they are, I do not like their intention to try to persuade me. I do not like being influenced. I do not like being inspired by what is supposed to make you feel good. I prefer being miserable than being lied to. I like input and advice, not commands, which is what persuasion feels like, I will not be commanded. I also usually somehow end up being a confidant to my friends. I am not emotionally expressive however so it is strange to me. Though as I said, most are ILI's and IEI's and they often appreciate "objective analysis" that they claim I provide effectively. One of my friends have said that I am very open when speaking to a friend, but at a distance I seem cold, flat, even critical. I am uptight with any emotion where my best friend is very free with positive ones. Yet if someone crosses her, hell is unleashed. My friends have called me "kind, considerate, gentle, and caring, a guardian angel and generous" though also "unassertive, timid, insecure and too negative" yet I have been called "cruel, heartless, stubborn, unstable, paranoid and argumentative" by family, teachers, strangers and peers. I have popularity issues.

[Beautiful sky]

You're not INFj.
Sounds like ISTp.

[reclaimpower]

Thank you. I agree, I have considered ISTp or INTp the most. INFj was very unlikely to me, so I agree on that as well. I have considered a very very very warped or introverted version of INFp, due to my interest in astrology, numerology etc, and my preoccupation with friendships. I am also more motivated doing something for someone else. I have read in the past that when trying to be typed, relationships help, which is why I focused so much on my best friend. I have considered for her ISFp, ESFp, ENFp, INFp, ESFj or ESTp. She is also at times sort of dreamy so maybe not S. I do not know how any of this would work in how I described our relationship however.

[thePirate]

Thank you. I agree, I have considered ISTp or INTp the most. INFj was very unlikely to me, so I agree on that as well. I have considered a very very very warped or introverted version of INFp, due to my interest in astrology, numerology etc, and my preoccupation with friendships. I am also more motivated doing something for someone else. I have read in the past that when trying to be typed, relationships help, which is why I focused so much on my best friend. I have considered for her ISFp, ESFp, ENFp, INFp, ESFj or ESTp. She is also at times sort of dreamy so maybe not S. I do not know how any of this would work in how I described our relationship however.

How does it sound at all like an ISTp maritsa?



(rhetorical question, idc about your answer)


I also see Ti/Fe valuing ..based on the description, LII fits well.

[Brilliand]

How does it sound at all like an ISTp maritsa?

Introverted, Thinking, Judicious? I don't think he's ISTp either, but don't pretend that it's a profoundly ridiculous typing.

I'm not noticing any justification for S, though. I think that came from her bias.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[reclaimpower]

Brilliand, I could see LII. I have obsessive tendencies, and prefer conclusions, though I do not adopt a single phiolosophy or adhere to a single system, this is where I turned from thinking LII. I also put a lot of emphasis on manners in some situations, such as thank you, please, and open doors for women, pull out chairs for women etc. which is a tendency I read about INTjs: having great emphasis on robotic manners, but then disregarding some social expectations when they don't make sense, for example I will not pledge to a flag, that has never made sense to me. My friend appearing ESFp may have been a bias on my part. I had that type in mind as well as ESTp. But we seldom argue, never in person and any offense seems to never have happened after we explain ourselves to each other. She is very decisive as you say but not overtly forceful, which to me Se would seem to be. More suggestive. ENFj could work, though she looks more ESFj from pictures. As for ESFj she also seems very Alpha too, more than I do myself if I do at all. But mbti (unless I should ignore mbti, it seems too generalized) considers ESFj conventional, yet she is traditional in manners, but gives the middle finger to what people think, yet is sensitive to it also and will be very upset in private if judged, but will never allow people to change her. She pays great attention to clothing, likes victorian, somewhat gothic, actively goes to Fetish Balls, but does not like anything too weird, only is fascinated. She frowns when someone tries to teach her something, as if angry or disturbed by me, but then shows immense gratitude afterwards, especially if I clarify something that confuses her. She has outbursts about other people that make me nervous, but I seem to be able to calm her in her anger or in tears. But she makes me very comfortable in showing my own emotions, more than anyone else. But she has an ISTp boyfriend currently, who she cannot get along with for 2 minutes which would indicate ENFj. She considers him lazy, close minded, unwilling to learn, slow, insensitive, and rude to any friends or guests. To her these accusations are worse than committing murder. But is he is unlike her typical type, he is not very aggresive. She likes how comfortable he is with himself, and finds him more carnally satisfying than anyone she has been with. I do not know if she is intuitive or sensing. She values real world situations and practical application, is street smart though somewhat childlike in behavior, very enthusiastic generally, but is also a bookworm, loves to learn but has difficulty in more logical spheres and she likes to wish upon stars with her sister, which to me seems dreamy. But she does not warn like EIE's do, she generally lacks forsight.

Aiss I agree with your reasoning, from what I have read about Ti, I do prefer it in theory. I said ILI primarily because most of my friends are. I considered Te only because I considered ISTp due to being accused as stubborn all my life, stubborness is something ISTp's seem to embody from what I have read. But I consider myself more intuitive than I should be if I am ISTp, and I am annoyed when people speak in too many metaphors, which is something my ILI and IEI friends do. LII fits better.

Brilliand, what you said is exactly like me. I fear giving into peer pressure.

thePirate I am agreeing with the Ti/Fe valuing. ISTp was considered by me though as I stated before. But that could be me wishing for the hidden agenda I believe is Si for LII. Though I have not read thoroughly on hidden agendas so my previous statement may be ignorant, if so, apologies. Also SLI are suppose to be stubborn, which I am often accused of being, but other types are known to be as well, so that was a narrow and baseless observation on my part.

Pinocchio, I can see Ne preference on my part. Though LII seems more accurate to me than ILE due to me being overly serious, and I get annoyed when people speak about endless possiblities without focusing on a single one. As for my friend I can see all that you have said but I do not think she has strong Ni due to lack of foresight at times and genuine shock when things go wrong.

Thank you all so far for your input, it is helping me.

[Brilliand]

You're not INFj.
Sounds like ISTp.

Ah, Delta ST. That doesn't count.

OK, I see I... T... ... and that's a typing. INTj. Except, your best friend sounds ESFp, and I'm pretty sure you're duals... I was wrong about one of you, and I'm gonna guess it was your best friend (as I heard less about her than about you), so by my best guess you're an INTj with an ESFj best friend.

[Aiss]

Ah, Delta ST. That doesn't count.

OK, I see I... T... ... and that's a typing. INTj. Except, your best friend sounds ESFp, and I'm pretty sure you're duals... I was wrong about one of you, and I'm gonna guess it was your best friend (as I heard less about her than about you), so by my best guess you're an INTj with an ESFj best friend.

I was going to say LII too. You needn't believe me though .

I see Ti/Fe valuing rather than Te. I could perhaps believe ILI, but there are a few things which just don't sound right. I think Ne > Ni, and static > dynamic. Interest in supernatural doesn't mean anything IMO, maybe except being least likely in Te-leading type. There's a very Alphaish focus on independence. Nearly every type will say "I don't like to be influenced by others", but very few will persist in doing things they're ridiculed for so long only because of that.

[Brilliand]

I walk with one foot in front of the other like on a tightrope. I do not know why, but I have been ridiculed for it so had to continue this behavior.

I also related to the bit about actually doing a thing more if I'm ridiculed for it - as though stopping would mean giving in to the peer pressure.

Your best friend does seem rather Decisive... perhaps she's EIE, rather than ESE. This would fit well with liking aggressive boyfriends ( superid), and with each of you doubting that the other cares (both Intuitive - hard to Make a Sensing issue clear). The fact that you complete each other's sentences and defend each other's minor points indicates a generally good relationship, which semi-duality is.

[Beautiful sky]

Ah, Delta ST. That doesn't count.

OK, I see I... T... ... and that's a typing. INTj. Except, your best friend sounds ESFp, and I'm pretty sure you're duals... I was wrong about one of you, and I'm gonna guess it was your best friend (as I heard less about her than about you), so by my best guess you're an INTj with an ESFj best friend.

Sorry, I wasn't feeling well yesterday, but I will disect his writing for you today

[Aiss]

You don't know your friends type for sure yet, so don't base it on the relationship dynamics; you have to focus on yourself, how you live your life and how you make the decisions you make.

That's actually a very good point. Trying to type both people and a relationship at the same time, especially when you're the one involved, makes it exponentially more complicated. Relationships evolve, and it might be a self-fulfilling prophesy to an extent.

NO

Not sure what you meant by emphasizing the part of the first quote. Just that you disagree with what I do? That's what I do, really. I can usually notice flaws in logic, but I don't create elaborate logical constructs myself. It's tedious, like a mathematical proof.

As to weak Ti role - I don't know anything about Phaedrus, so it was a bit of an extrapolation, but your arguments with Ti-leading types do sound like that. You can't match them there, just like I'll never match my friend's Si - even though I'm loathe to admit it to her. Time after time they "outlogic" you, and you back out from an argument. Do you really think you're as good at it as Ti-egos?

ILI do not spend time doing this

I don't understand, seeing as there's nothing about ILIs doing anything in the quoted fragment. If you mean "ILIs don't do much of anything", then I can't argue with you... it's the official version, after all.

That's my Ne, sorry, my dual would help, when he or she come around to it. I am considering INTj for you.

And again, I fail to grasp the emphasis. What does my agreeing with reclaimpower on his opinion of his friend's type does to do with your Ne? If you think that part points toward strong Ni, or has nothing to do with Ni, can you explain it?

About vagueness - I meant that usually the definitions you quote/link (if you do) are rather vague. I don't think your (usually very specific) interpretation of them is superior, especially as you tend not to give any evidence for it.

Finally, it's beginning to sound interesting. I'll see if I can get upgraded to LSI in the future.

[Beautiful sky]

That's actually a very good point. Trying to type both people and a relationship at the same time, especially when you're the one involved, makes it exponentially more complicated. Relationships evolve, and it might be a self-fulfilling prophesy to an extent.



Not sure what you meant by emphasizing the part of the first quote. Just that you disagree with what I do? That's what I do, really. I can usually notice flaws in logic, but I don't create elaborate logical constructs myself. It's tedious, like a mathematical proof.

As to weak Ti role - I don't know anything about Phaedrus, so it was a bit of an extrapolation, but your arguments with Ti-leading types do sound like that. You can't match them there, just like I'll never match my friend's Si - even though I'm loathe to admit it to her. Time after time they "outlogic" you, and you back out from an argument. Do you really think you're as good at it as Ti-egos?



I don't understand, seeing as there's nothing about ILIs doing anything in the quoted fragment. If you mean "ILIs don't do much of anything", then I can't argue with you... it's the official version, after all.



And again, I fail to grasp the emphasis. What does my agreeing with reclaimpower on his opinion of his friend's type does to do with your Ne? If you think that part points toward strong Ni, or has nothing to do with Ni, can you explain it?

About vagueness - I meant that usually the definitions you quote/link (if you do) are rather vague. I don't think your (usually very specific) interpretation of them is superior, especially as you tend not to give any evidence for it.

Finally, it's beginning to sound interesting. I'll see if I can get upgraded to LSI in the future.

Upgrade to ESTj!!!