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    I am new here. Okay, I have been studying socionics for three years. I have been able to help friends identify their type (only help, they usually are very certain of who they are it seems) yet I find it very difficult to come to conclusions of my own type. So please help me. I do not have a picture or camera, so v.i. is difficult to produce, I can however try to describe my face if any require it. I am a male.

    As for habits, I am usually quiet, I seem monotone, and stoic to those who do not know me well. I dress usually in all black, but once in a while grey, dark red or brown to mix things up. I will not wear a shirt with an advertisement of any kind, even a brand, unless it is something like a band I like or something to support a friend's cause. My clothes do not fit well, I also wear a leather jacket, sometimes trench coat. The trench coat was originally a joke, but when I was in highschool a kid called his father who was a cop and demanded that the principal forbid me to wear it believing me to be a terrorist, the principal spoke to me, said he could not in good conscience tell me not to wear it and said to do whatever I want, since I did not know who the kid was so could not thank him for wasting my time, I wore the duster every single day, whether it was hot or cold as an "F you" to the moron. I do not do goth, emo or stereotypes so please get that out of your head. I only feel comfortable in dark colors, it is not to portray a certain image, but entirely for my own comfort level. Bright colors feel vulnerable and too loud. I walk with one foot in front of the other like on a tightrope. I do not know why, but I have been ridiculed for it so had to continue this behavior. I have bad posture. I am very sensitve to criticism, but at the same time I feel violated when I let others influence my decisions, so I tend to be miserable when I am ridiculed, but dig my heels in even deeper in doing whatever I was ridiculed for. I do not like verbal confrontation however, I am terrible at it, and consider statements such as "I'll shove my size 12 up your a-hole" entirely unnecessary and pretentious.

    I am torn between the real world and the supernatural. On the one had, I crave sensational experiences and believe that the real world is more important. On the other hand, I can not keep my mind from considering things such as mysticism, animal spirit guides, astrology numerology etc. Though I do not have a defined belief on how the world woks or any particular system I adhere to. I get bored and feel encaged without mental stimulus, but then feel the same when my body goes without attention or stimulation either.

    Most of my friends are ILI or IEI. I do not know what my best friend is. We are similar yet opposites in many ways. She has facial features similar to Angelina Jolie, Olivia Wilde, and Cristina Scabbia. Her nose gets wider as it gets lower and is flat yet curved at the bottom, her face is symmetrical with sharp cheek bones, she has eyes that challenge you one moment, then disarms you with a playful manner then next. She is usually considered attractive by the opposite sex. Is sensual, and has animal magnetism. She is energetic, lustful for adventure, passionate and strong willed. But she is also very sentimental, and almost childlike sometimes endearingly so the more you get to know her. She fears weakness, and admires strength and assertiveness. Her boyfriends are always aggressive. She often tries to push me to be more assertive, and relates me to her younger, more timid self, ironically she is younger than me, but was forced onto the streets at 15, around the time we met, so has much world experience. She has considerable depth which is not always aparent at first due to a playful exhibtionist persona, and loves imagination/creativity though doubts her own abilities, abhors conformism and is skilled in calculating her actions, yet seems governed by the feelings of the moment and is highly improvational, seeming to make plans, only to forgo them with action. She shows much genuine emotion, but knows how to fake them too. Yet she also is very precise when it comes to things making sense, and dislikes actions that don't. She does however prefer to be sincere, and will base decisions out of love or loyalty, even if they seem foolish or will cost her much. She cannot "waste a day" even if it means sleeping only for 3 hours. We have never argued in person, it is only through text or email that we get confused. In person we use body language, tones, gestures, and can finish each others sentences this way. Both of us are paranoid, afraid to lose control of ourselves, and often question whether the other cares having severe doubts in any and every relationship we have. We immediately sympathise, even become protective of each other over minor statements, often frustrating her boyfriend to no end. She cannot go without a romantic partner more than 2 days, or becomes pessimistic and depressed. I do not do romance however, even when someone I am attracted to shows interest in me, I become cold, or never speak to them again. I do however love romantic movies and encourage my friends to find love.

    I am usually very serious. I do not lose arguments, but I seldom win them either. I apologize frequently when trying to show good will to others, but will not apologize to an authority figure unless they have earned my respect. An apology is a reflex or a tool to me, I believe regret is a waste of time. I am concerned with sincerity in everything else however, and am very willing to give to a friend, only friends. I do not however do debts. I either give completely, without being paid back, or I will do nothing for the person. Halfway attempts and gestures piss me off. I will never compromise unless it is with my best friend. Oh and I am terribly rude toward any missionary, no matter how polite they are, I do not like their intention to try to persuade me. I do not like being influenced. I do not like being inspired by what is supposed to make you feel good. I prefer being miserable than being lied to. I like input and advice, not commands, which is what persuasion feels like, I will not be commanded. I also usually somehow end up being a confidant to my friends. I am not emotionally expressive however so it is strange to me. Though as I said, most are ILI's and IEI's and they often appreciate "objective analysis" that they claim I provide effectively. One of my friends have said that I am very open when speaking to a friend, but at a distance I seem cold, flat, even critical. I am uptight with any emotion where my best friend is very free with positive ones. Yet if someone crosses her, hell is unleashed. My friends have called me "kind, considerate, gentle, and caring, a guardian angel and generous" though also "unassertive, timid, insecure and too negative" yet I have been called "cruel, heartless, stubborn, unstable, paranoid and argumentative" by family, teachers, strangers and peers. I have popularity issues.

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    You're not INFj.
    Sounds like ISTp.

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    Thank you. I agree, I have considered ISTp or INTp the most. INFj was very unlikely to me, so I agree on that as well. I have considered a very very very warped or introverted version of INFp, due to my interest in astrology, numerology etc, and my preoccupation with friendships. I am also more motivated doing something for someone else. I have read in the past that when trying to be typed, relationships help, which is why I focused so much on my best friend. I have considered for her ISFp, ESFp, ENFp, INFp, ESFj or ESTp. She is also at times sort of dreamy so maybe not S. I do not know how any of this would work in how I described our relationship however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You're not INFj.
    Sounds like ISTp.
    Ah, Delta ST. That doesn't count.

    OK, I see I... T... ... and that's a typing. INTj. Except, your best friend sounds ESFp, and I'm pretty sure you're duals... I was wrong about one of you, and I'm gonna guess it was your best friend (as I heard less about her than about you), so by my best guess you're an INTj with an ESFj best friend.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Ah, Delta ST. That doesn't count.

    OK, I see I... T... ... and that's a typing. INTj. Except, your best friend sounds ESFp, and I'm pretty sure you're duals... I was wrong about one of you, and I'm gonna guess it was your best friend (as I heard less about her than about you), so by my best guess you're an INTj with an ESFj best friend.
    I was going to say LII too. You needn't believe me though .

    I see Ti/Fe valuing rather than Te. I could perhaps believe ILI, but there are a few things which just don't sound right. I think Ne > Ni, and static > dynamic. Interest in supernatural doesn't mean anything IMO, maybe except being least likely in Te-leading type. There's a very Alphaish focus on independence. Nearly every type will say "I don't like to be influenced by others", but very few will persist in doing things they're ridiculed for so long only because of that.
    Last edited by Aiss; 03-29-2010 at 01:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reclaimpower View Post
    I walk with one foot in front of the other like on a tightrope. I do not know why, but I have been ridiculed for it so had to continue this behavior.
    I also related to the bit about actually doing a thing more if I'm ridiculed for it - as though stopping would mean giving in to the peer pressure.

    Your best friend does seem rather Decisive... perhaps she's EIE, rather than ESE. This would fit well with liking aggressive boyfriends ( superid), and with each of you doubting that the other cares (both Intuitive - hard to Make a Sensing issue clear). The fact that you complete each other's sentences and defend each other's minor points indicates a generally good relationship, which semi-duality is.
    Last edited by Brilliand; 03-29-2010 at 10:33 PM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by reclaimpower View Post
    Thank you. I agree, I have considered ISTp or INTp the most. INFj was very unlikely to me, so I agree on that as well. I have considered a very very very warped or introverted version of INFp, due to my interest in astrology, numerology etc, and my preoccupation with friendships. I am also more motivated doing something for someone else. I have read in the past that when trying to be typed, relationships help, which is why I focused so much on my best friend. I have considered for her ISFp, ESFp, ENFp, INFp, ESFj or ESTp. She is also at times sort of dreamy so maybe not S. I do not know how any of this would work in how I described our relationship however.
    How does it sound at all like an ISTp maritsa?



    (rhetorical question, idc about your answer)


    I also see Ti/Fe valuing ..based on the description, LII fits well.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    How does it sound at all like an ISTp maritsa?
    Introverted, Thinking, Judicious? I don't think he's ISTp either, but don't pretend that it's a profoundly ridiculous typing.

    I'm not noticing any justification for S, though. I think that came from her bias.



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    Brilliand, I could see LII. I have obsessive tendencies, and prefer conclusions, though I do not adopt a single phiolosophy or adhere to a single system, this is where I turned from thinking LII. I also put a lot of emphasis on manners in some situations, such as thank you, please, and open doors for women, pull out chairs for women etc. which is a tendency I read about INTjs: having great emphasis on robotic manners, but then disregarding some social expectations when they don't make sense, for example I will not pledge to a flag, that has never made sense to me. My friend appearing ESFp may have been a bias on my part. I had that type in mind as well as ESTp. But we seldom argue, never in person and any offense seems to never have happened after we explain ourselves to each other. She is very decisive as you say but not overtly forceful, which to me Se would seem to be. More suggestive. ENFj could work, though she looks more ESFj from pictures. As for ESFj she also seems very Alpha too, more than I do myself if I do at all. But mbti (unless I should ignore mbti, it seems too generalized) considers ESFj conventional, yet she is traditional in manners, but gives the middle finger to what people think, yet is sensitive to it also and will be very upset in private if judged, but will never allow people to change her. She pays great attention to clothing, likes victorian, somewhat gothic, actively goes to Fetish Balls, but does not like anything too weird, only is fascinated. She frowns when someone tries to teach her something, as if angry or disturbed by me, but then shows immense gratitude afterwards, especially if I clarify something that confuses her. She has outbursts about other people that make me nervous, but I seem to be able to calm her in her anger or in tears. But she makes me very comfortable in showing my own emotions, more than anyone else. But she has an ISTp boyfriend currently, who she cannot get along with for 2 minutes which would indicate ENFj. She considers him lazy, close minded, unwilling to learn, slow, insensitive, and rude to any friends or guests. To her these accusations are worse than committing murder. But is he is unlike her typical type, he is not very aggresive. She likes how comfortable he is with himself, and finds him more carnally satisfying than anyone she has been with. I do not know if she is intuitive or sensing. She values real world situations and practical application, is street smart though somewhat childlike in behavior, very enthusiastic generally, but is also a bookworm, loves to learn but has difficulty in more logical spheres and she likes to wish upon stars with her sister, which to me seems dreamy. But she does not warn like EIE's do, she generally lacks forsight.

    Aiss I agree with your reasoning, from what I have read about Ti, I do prefer it in theory. I said ILI primarily because most of my friends are. I considered Te only because I considered ISTp due to being accused as stubborn all my life, stubborness is something ISTp's seem to embody from what I have read. But I consider myself more intuitive than I should be if I am ISTp, and I am annoyed when people speak in too many metaphors, which is something my ILI and IEI friends do. LII fits better.

    Brilliand, what you said is exactly like me. I fear giving into peer pressure.

    thePirate I am agreeing with the Ti/Fe valuing. ISTp was considered by me though as I stated before. But that could be me wishing for the hidden agenda I believe is Si for LII. Though I have not read thoroughly on hidden agendas so my previous statement may be ignorant, if so, apologies. Also SLI are suppose to be stubborn, which I am often accused of being, but other types are known to be as well, so that was a narrow and baseless observation on my part.

    Pinocchio, I can see Ne preference on my part. Though LII seems more accurate to me than ILE due to me being overly serious, and I get annoyed when people speak about endless possiblities without focusing on a single one. As for my friend I can see all that you have said but I do not think she has strong Ni due to lack of foresight at times and genuine shock when things go wrong.

    Thank you all so far for your input, it is helping me.

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    LII works with clairifying, reconciling thoughts against published ones for instanced to eliminate contraditions; I don't see you doing that here.

    I still say SLI.

    Intuitive is not N type.

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    I wouldn't mix MBTI and socionics. I think socionics has it right, especially when it comes to functions. Or at least, it isn't a total mess MBTI functions are.

    Can you elaborate on "lack of foresight" exhibited?

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    You may observe that a forum member, Phaedrus, is INTj. From his (her?) posts, you can see that several times he will take a book or a source and whatever information that another forum member writes, he eliminates or judges against that published source, in order to eliminate contradictions; he will write often that one piece of information agrees or disagrees; also, INTj will make rash and overgeneralized comments...example, "Only....(such and such a person, would do that or this). He also has the tendency to make novel connections where there isn't a blatant one, when he sees a pattern unfolding during the process of elimination.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-30-2010 at 12:28 AM.

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    I would consider an MBTI typing a good opinion on what a Socionics type might be, though not totally reliable (As a rule of thumb, I would suggest expecting one dichotomy to be different between the MBTI type and the Socionics type).

    After your clarifications, I would consider your friend ESE, particularly because she seems to approve of her boyfriend's (which an EIE would not). Her many complaints against him all sound like issues.

    As for adopting a single philosophy: I relate to this only insofar as I link together all of the philosophies that I hold into what is effectively a united system. However, this philosophy is effectively created by me from bits and pieces of other philosophies, so if you do the same thing, I can see why you wouldn't consider it "one."

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    LII works with clairifying, reconciling thoughts against published ones for instanced to eliminate contraditions; I don't see you doing that here.
    Reconciling against published sources? I suppose an LII might do that occasionally, but that's by no means most of what we do. Anyhow, that's almost what reclaimpower is doing right now - he's checking his findings so far against the knowledge base of this forum (in the form of conversation rather than published material, but it comes to the same thing). He's doing this specifically because there are gaps in his knowledge - if he thought he had it all figured out, he wouldn't bother to ask us (though he might possibly show up to tell us his ideas, or to bounce new speculations off us).
    Last edited by Brilliand; 03-30-2010 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Removed my depiction of Phaedrus



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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    You described him very well, and this points almost exactly towards my typing on him (and possibly labcoat's):
    - Serious (Te/Fi)
    - Intuitive (Ne/Ni)
    - Ethical (F) - what you said sounds more like Fi, even

    Result Delta NF. I find obvious that he's an Irrational, but not from this description above.
    Besides, like I said other time, I know someone in real life who I over-analysed and he's IEE, the same temperament & you choose what.
    ---

    Maritsa, you do a grave error: LIIs don't clarify things against published knowledge, but the opposite, no matter what books say, if that doesn't fit their understanding they don't go with it, no matter how useful that was for other people, that's Gamma/Delta. Compared to ILEs, they make sometimes some compromises with themselves, but that's only to get an urgent job done (see Max Plank), it's very-very-very far away from what you say.
    Ti is to eliminate contridictions...that's what LII do. "This type of logic is inertial. Instead of “making things work”, it rather focuses on elimination of contradictions, on systematization, or in more general meaning – on “justice” (if it only exists). "

    You do that by taking a book, any one and reading another of the like subject and eliminate contridictions where you end up with only things that agree with sources.

    This person seems very relaxed intellectual, correct? (and, that would be ISTp). Focusing on a single possibility gives the person an opportunity to materialize or conceptualize something rather then be in N land of things.

    "One of my friends have said that I am very open when speaking to a friend, but at a distance I seem cold, flat, even critical. I am uptight with any emotion where my best friend is very free with positive ones."

    is somewhere in the 3rd or 4th spot; hence, ISTp or ESTj.

    Socioniko: "Reserved richness of emotions. It is his aptitude for hiding emotions under the mask of inapproachability and coldness that makes them finely ‘polished’ and expressive"

    I don't even count the supernatural things, because they are very imaginary and expressive, like art or creativity.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-30-2010 at 12:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Ti is to eliminate contridictions...that's what LII do. "This type of logic is inertial. Instead of “making things work”, it rather focuses on elimination of contradictions, on systematization, or in more general meaning – on “justice” (if it only exists). "

    You do that by taking a book, any one and reading another of the like subject and eliminate contridictions where you end up with only things that agree with sources.
    No, looking for more sources is just a way to bury yourself in contradictions that you can't do anything about. To eliminate contradictions, gather as much information as you need (possibly from multiple sources, in case some of them are wrong), then contemplate it, link together as much as you can, and discard whatever doesn't fit. It's mostly a mental process. In order to eliminate contradictions, it's absolutely necessary to construct your contradiction-free view inside of your head, and basically be the final judge of what you believe.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Maybe you misunderstood or Phaedrus changed his opinion in time. He stated several months ago that MBTI types correspond to the Socionics by name, they're the same types. His "logic" was that they can't be different as long as they have the same name, especially disagreeing that J/P is not the same thing with Rational/Irrational.
    Apologies, how could I have forgotten Phaedrus's position on this.

    In the post I was thinking of, he was referring to MBTI tests. I'll edit my post accordingly.

    EDIT: Or rather, I've removed all mention of him, since he wasn't important to my point.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    From my understanding Phaedrus and Prometheus from Socionics forum are the same person. If so he believed himself to be ILI/INTp. He also believed strongly for some months that he and I were the same type after watching videos of me, although he kept insisting he was robot like and eventually he could see that I had feelings. There is more to this story but that is enough for now. He was a very nice helpful guy in one on one conversations but seemed to lack knowing when to stop pushing people in the forums once he became fixated on something/someone and sometimes knowing what was acceptable to say or not.
    Is anyone able to confirm whether or not Phaedrus and Prometheus are definitely the same person or not.
    INTj's do some odd things like that. An INTj friend, I typed, still claims he is INFp and that he is in love and supposed to be with ESFp...oddest thing ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    No, looking for more sources is just a way to bury yourself in contradictions that you can't do anything about. To eliminate contradictions, gather as much information as you need (possibly from multiple sources, in case some of them are wrong), then contemplate it, link together as much as you can, and discard whatever doesn't fit. It's mostly a mental process. In order to eliminate contradictions, it's absolutely necessary to construct your contradiction-free view inside of your head, and basically be the final judge of what you believe.
    socioniko :

    "The Analyst loves intellectual development. He pays attention to new theories and technologies. The Bonvivant is receptive to everything new and willingly finds necessary information for The Analyst on issues that interest him. Since The Bonvivant is very active and prompt, he is always well informed about everything concerning demand and proposal. On the other hand, The Analyst lacks tact and sincere attention towards people. In this way he often unintentionally offends people. Others may feel he is impersonal or like objects of cold-minded analysis."

    this person reads a lot of the same line of information just like ISTj does as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Maybe you misunderstood or Phaedrus changed his opinion in time. He stated several months ago that MBTI types correspond to the Socionics by name, they're the same types. His "logic" was that they can't be different as long as they have the same name, especially disagreeing that J/P is not the same thing with Rational/Irrational.
    that is eliminated logic per Ti conclusion that I have highlighted above
    It's odd to see it or think of it in that working order but you see Diane mind works the same way, but she is, being an ISTj, a lot more polite, where INTj is not and Diane, although she jumps in a conversation to ask an out of the blue question, will appologize nicely, politely and step aside.

    INTj don't have very good people skills but their logic is interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    socioniko :

    "The Analyst loves intellectual development. He pays attention to new theories and technologies. The Bonvivant is receptive to everything new and willingly finds necessary information for The Analyst on issues that interest him. Since The Bonvivant is very active and prompt, he is always well informed about everything concerning demand and proposal. On the other hand, The Analyst lacks tact and sincere attention towards people. In this way he often unintentionally offends people. Others may feel he is impersonal or like objects of cold-minded analysis."

    this person reads a lot of the same line of information just like ISTj does as well.
    That's significantly different from what you stated. INTjs are interested in new discoveries, but are interested in advancing into new areas that they do not yet have a clear opinion about, not in reconsidering topics that they already understand (though we may do this in an attempt to convince someone else).



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    That's significantly different from what you stated. INTjs are interested in new discoveries, but are interested in advancing into new areas that they do not yet have a clear opinion about, not in reconsidering topics that they already understand (though we may do this in an attempt to convince someone else).
    Pay attention...listen to. Will develop intellectual field finds interest in but to an increadible depth.

    "He pays attention to new theories and technologies."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Pay attention...listen to. Will develop intellectual field finds interest in but to an increadible depth.

    "He pays attention to new theories and technologies."
    That's an extremely vague statement, and I don't see how you can make any sort of point from it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    My statement didn't implied that he's an Ethical type because of his logic mistakes
    Ti make logical mistakes too, those just have to be litterally pointed out to them. In several postings he compared jung's books to the socionics functions and he pointed them out clearly. He used words like "correct", "incorrect".

    If you copy paste one of these postings of his we can look at it ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio
    Maritsa, you do a grave error: LIIs don't clarify things against published knowledge, but the opposite, no matter what books say, if that doesn't fit their understanding they don't go with it, no matter how useful that was for other people, that's Gamma/Delta. Compared to ILEs, they make sometimes some compromises with themselves, but that's only to get an urgent job done (see Max Plank), it's very-very-very far away from what you say.
    I agree. INTjs focus on developing their personal set of views. The public body of knowledge is seen as cumbersome and restrictive by them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    I do remember Prometheus making this statement a number of times also.
    When something makes sense to a Ti-Ne then that something becomes like law, it is deeply imprinted and hard to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I agree. INTjs focus on developing their personal set of views. The public body of knowledge is seen as cumbersome and restrictive by them.
    I would closely associate that with

    INTj build laws, general guide for all not at all personal, unless it is for romantic purposes. He believed he was INTp, because I have a feeling that he may have found Suzzy attractive. Did he ever give a VI?

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...functions.html

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    INTp do the socionics research on their own. They are very polite and have a very mild tone of writing and speaking....ever hear an INTp curse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Jeez you don't get it, you take things too literally! Do you remember how he justified what's correct an incorrect? With "it is known", "it was discovered", "the studies show", and so on. It's irrelevant that he used those words as long as he referred to learned, global matters instead of pointing out the inconsistency through logical deduction per-case (or whatever analytical means).
    He did label people...that's a part of the system. He was so insistent because of TiNe; not because of Ne... you see? The conclusions of this thought will be so rigid and so odd.

    INTj
    Find an interest.
    Find all related articles.
    Find only what you agree for consistancy.
    Eliminate all contridictions.
    Conclude to a solid rigid form.
    All information is redunant if not a new interest.
    Only when the person is addressed to a certain way, will they change their preconceived thought...that's so J.
    Key words -to cohere, inconsistancy, evidence (what do you need evidence for if you're not in law?). he is in law, in TiNe law.

    He is INTj and he was right about wikisocion descriptions being off.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-30-2010 at 02:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
    You have no idea. Why do you make such assumptions that are consistently wrong.
    I didn't say he did find you attractive, I just have a feeling.

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    Okay, thank you for helping. Not to be self-absorbed but... I am more confused at this point though. SLI or LII or Ne somewhere in my Ego....
    Based off of what Maritsa33 is saying, if I were LII I would be using sources to back up any claim. You are correct in that I don't, I never do. I find it tedious. I look for contradictions but never care to correct them unless there is a purpose. That sounds less LII. College courses drive me insane for this very reason. But Brilliand was correct about my intentions. I am admittedly far less knowledgeable in socionics than many if not all of you. I would like to use this forum to fill the gaps in my knowledge. If I had the answer, I would not bother asking. I do seek clarity through elimination however. I also do what Brilliand said of taking pieces of multiple philosophies and try to effectively unite them. That is what I meant. I do not believe socionics is entirely correct, but a piece of the puzzle. I consider astrology speculative at best, but an effective model of seperate archetypes that surface through out humanity. So I do relate to Brilliand if I understood correctly. I did however read on wikisocion that SLI does this situational rather than one cohesive understanding of life. I relate to this more in that I focus more on specific situations. So what I just said does little to clarify anything for myself but perhaps someone else can see a pattern I cannot.

    I can buy that my friend is ESE. That would make her my supervisor if I were SLI (I am not sure how that relationship works in comparison with the one I have with her) my dual if I were LII, or my Activator if I were ILE. I am also very disorganized and messy so possibly irrational. But I could never see myself as extroverted, I lack charisma, I have no social skills, and am uncomfortable talking unless with a friend. I do like attention from a close friend, but not a group of people. One thing that is not ESE about my friend is that she likes clutter. She will be embarrassed if her car is dirty, so not her own, but in the past she has specifically asked that I leave my house messy when she was coming over. She said it would make her more comfortable for some reason. I didn't understand it, she wouldn't explain, but I agreed to do so whenever she comes. Although she has been caught cleaning it herself, leaving me further confused, and doing all the house chores, and she tries to take over the kitchen in a passive way. She won't say anything, but she'll start to cook when I'm cooking, then I'll try to reclaim my kitchen but she'll pout and make whimpers until I let her help at least a little leaving me further perplexed, it seems terribly rude of me to let her help, yet terribly rude if I don't.

    Aiss, lack of foresight elaboration: She lives in the moment, does not consider that when she refuses to do something there will be consequences, and often asks me what I think will happen if she does or does not do something. She worries about the future, but not because she's certain something is going to happen but because she doesn't know what will or if anything will happen at all. She has claimed to hold my advice in high regard when it comes to dealing with uncertain situations, yet strangely, I have little foresight of my own. I can weigh some consequences at best.

    One thing that may help, I was very outgoing as a child and early teenage years. Poor experiences with people have made me learn to close off emotions and intentionally be cold, pursuing intellectual pursuits rather than many relations. I was very emotional and always tried to relate to people. I have since learned not to. I always joked, smiled, and tried to make people laugh. On the other hand, my best friend was as I am now, she also had poor experiences and changed in her early teens, even when I first met her. But she claims we would have been very similar children. This is why she relates me to a younger version of herself. I did not mention this before because it seemed unimportant since it was in the past. But I recently read that you learn your first function as a child. I believe the way I am now should be the real me, but based off of the theory that we learn our ego functions as children, I may be the... opposite of me? This confuses me further and may be pointless.

    All that I am saying seems to be getting nowhere though. So if any would share insight into a pattern emerging, I would appreciate their reasoning. Though I may be getting self absorbed at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reclaimpower View Post
    Based off of what Maritsa33 is saying, if I were LII I would be using sources to back up any claim.
    In my opinion, Maritsa is thoroughly wrong. Most members here would say that about most of the things that she says. If you ignore her, then we all pretty much agree on LII as your typing; Pinocchio only went so far as ego, but LIIs are ego.



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    Yes I think you are right about LII. But I will not disregard Maritsa's opinion just yet. I wanted to try following Maritsa's reasoning to be fair, it went against the grain, and I do not fully comprehend the functions and observations she based her hypothesis on, so I will need to read of functions, and Socioniko's descriptions to make an accurate decision. I believe my lack of information makes me unable to disagree with anything just yet. Her opinion disagreed with the rest of you, I wanted to understand it, but as I said before, throwing SLI in the mix makes me even more confused. Contrary to popular belief, the majority is not always right. But in this case however I will go with it for now as it does make sense, especially concerning my relationship with my best friend, I can see it being dual, but not a supervision relationship like it would be if I were SLI. I will make a conclusion once I fully understand each function, relationships and can form a solid opinion of my own. Until then I will interact in other threads allowing my reasoning process to be more apparent to all of you. Thank you for your help.

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