My Philosophy, in a Nutshell

[MatthewZ]

This post, I'll say, starts with terminal illnesses and estimated expiration dates. Wouldn't it be a little more liberating to know the date of one's death? To know that, no matter what happens, you have until that date to do whatever you want. It can't come any closer. It's just right there. It's conquering something by understanding it. As humans, we defeat the world by knowing how it works. As has been said many times in history, fear is a sign of ignorance. Fear, by its definition, implies a "fear of the unknown." In certainty, however, there is nothing to fear. All of the possible dangers are known. There is no denial of death in its knowledge; the world becomes no less determinate. Nothing has ability; it will only do what it will do. It has no power to change. Death will come eventually, but if that day is known, death can come no sooner. It can't be changed, but it can't change itself. It will come exactly when planned, but until then, there's nothing to hold you back.

It's said that the last phase of the grief cycle is acceptance. This cycle originated from studying terminally ill patients and how they would deal with the discovery that they were terminally ill. Acceptance is the most peaceful stage, is it not? There may be those that do not desire peace and would instead prefer to be the puppet of death's hand. At best, they refuse to accept death and are thusly defeated by it. Denial is the stage of ignorance and of bliss. It may at times be one of the happiest, but it's also the most neurotic. Those in denial may live a happy and neurotic life, but they lose to death's hand nonetheless.

From an iterated standpoint, acceptance wins out over denial. Why stand back and refuse certainty that can be obtained? The world loses to humanity every time it is more understood. If there is a release in victory, then there is certainly a release in understanding the world.

Afterthought: Is it preferred to know everything or to know nothing?

[The Exception]

Interesting you bring this up. I've contemplated the would you want to know the date of your death question alot myself. While I can see your logic behind why it would be ideal to know your death date, on a more emotional level knowing that would make me very uneasy. Like everything is one big countdown to the end. So final. Like knowing something's bad going to happen and having no means to alter the outcome.

I know I'm going to die someday but I also hate thinking about it more than I have to. Knowing the death date would just make me think about it more and hinder my ability to enjoy life. I wish we didn't have to die at all. Okay, maybe that's not exactly true. Actually, I feel some uneasiness towards immortality as well. But that's for another thread. I guess what I'd like is alot longer lifespan. Several hundred years or more sounds good to me. There's so much I want to learn about and do that it would take several normal lifetimes to do it all.

Interesting that we are supposedly the same type but you would want to know your death date and I would not. I know another LII and he shares the exact same point of view as you do.

I'm interested to see if this is a type related thing or not. And particularly what other LII's think. I would speculate that rational types would be more likely to lean towards wanting to know and irrational types towards not. Then again I'm a rational type but with an irrational subtype.

[Brilliand]

Terminally ill patients don't know their lifespan; they jsut know their maximum lifespan. Useful to know, but it doesn't have the potential of knowing your actual date of death.

Neither knowing everything nor knowing nothing is an option; knowing more is generally better, but every bit of knowledge has a price that it is not always worth.

[Krig the Viking]

I'm mostly ambivalent on the question, myself. Knowing the date of my death would allow me to plan my life more efficiently, knowing how much time I have left to accomplish whatever it is that I want to accomplish, but at the same time, I don't like having things overly planned-out. Still, it's a pretty low-level question for me, akin to whether I should go to my parents' house for supper on Saturday. Well, ok, a little bigger than that, but not much.

Of course, eliminating the uncertainty of when you'll die does not eliminate the true source of fear related to death: the uncertainty of what happens after you die. As Shakespeare wrote:

Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Rubicon]

----> 1:05 !!

[The Exception]

Interesting article on the maximum lifespan for humans (approx 125 years)

AFAR: Dr. Leonard Hayflick feature: Prolonging Health through Aging Research

[Krig the Viking]

Actually, forget what I said earlier, I would absolutely love to know for certain the exact day I will die.

Because right up until that day, I would be invincible.

[Rubicon]

No, I definitely wouldn't want to know the date of my death. Same way I don't want to know who I'm going to marry one day, what my dinner is going to be tomorrow night. :-p How is that living in denial? Hope and anticipation is half of what makes life worth living! Why get out of bed every day? And what on earth is sacred about a reality that sucks?

This post, I'll say, starts with terminal illnesses and estimated expiration dates. Wouldn't it be a little more liberating to know the date of one's death? To know that, no matter what happens, you have until that date to do whatever you want. It can't come any closer. It's just right there. It's conquering something by understanding it. As humans, we defeat the world by knowing how it works. As has been said many times in history, fear is a sign of ignorance. Fear, by its definition, implies a "fear of the unknown." In certainty, however, there is nothing to fear. All of the possible dangers are known. There is no denial of death in its knowledge; the world becomes no less determinate. Nothing has ability; it will only do what it will do. It has no power to change. Death will come eventually, but if that day is known, death can come no sooner. It can't be changed, but it can't change itself. It will come exactly when planned, but until then, there's nothing to hold you back.

I don't get your logic here... because everyone "knows" that death is coming at some point. Accepting it (whatever that phrase means) doesn't defeat it - clearly not, because it happens to all of us just the same, whether we've spent all our lives contemplating it or no. And how does fear imply a fear of the unknown? Isn't it healthy to fear a grizzly attack when walking through woods inhabited by grizzlies? And if you're definitely going to be taken by a grizzly in your tent one night, what could you possibly gain from trembling all night in anticipation of that attack? Seriously! If you manage to work yourself into some peaceful state of acceptance of that event before it happens - so what? The peaceful state of ignorance feels better than that! :-p So it's not about peace, and just about some feeling of superiority you get from your "knowing". And then you're dead, and where has that knowledge gotten you? I seriously don't understand your viewpoint at all.

It's said that the last phase of the grief cycle is acceptance. This cycle originated from studying terminally ill patients and how they would deal with the discovery that they were terminally ill. Acceptance is the most peaceful stage, is it not? There may be those that do not desire peace and would instead prefer to be the puppet of death's hand. At best, they refuse to accept death and are thusly defeated by it.

I find the concept of "acceptance" ridiculously infantile myself. Unless it leads to action.. what does it even mean? Sounds like emptiness to me. Sounds like defeat to me. What is a life filled with knowledge compared to a life filled with action? Aren't all our lives just empty dramas from an objective point of view? What would it be like to sit in the movies with a detailed sequence of events in your lap? Sure, you might sit there feeling superior, bursting at the seams with knowledge.. but oops - your fellow audience is actually enjoying it, and you're not. Seems you're the loser then.

Denial is the stage of ignorance and of bliss. It may at times be one of the happiest, but it's also the most neurotic. Those in denial may live a happy and neurotic life, but they lose to death's hand nonetheless.

Yes, they lose to death nonetheless - same as those who live in dreaded anticipation.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

That philosophy doesn't work because as you live your life, you can't possibly know everything no matter how smart you are. Things will naturally surprise you, and throw you for a loop- and it's best to know how to handle that when it comes up.

The world in ideas and books and institutions takes on a different form then the world of living matter. Chaos is a part of life. I think we should actually do the opposite of what you said. We need to *emotionally* help people handle the unexpected in life, instead of *intellectually* help people understand the laws of the world.

Us trying to know everything will be our undoing. Although some people find the Bible full of shit, that actually has a lot of truth into it.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Life isn't philosophy. Life is no philosophy, or more accurately, it's all philosophies rolled into one. Life is life. The big picture. Something I as a left-hander naturally see quite easily.

You could create a world in which you enjoy but life is change. Chaos. It's suddenly seeing purple forest imps throat fucking a green orge. Pour green dust in your ears, take you by the nose and rip open the skin on your face to reveal your skull. Bloody tendrils drip. Did you see that coming? Nope. That was the point.

Happiness comes from learning how to accept change. Your ego and your mind, your intellect....it only wants security and structure. Self-preservation. But things need to die in order to live.

[Creepy-male]

This post, I'll say, starts with terminal illnesses and estimated expiration dates. Wouldn't it be a little more liberating to know the date of one's death? To know that, no matter what happens, you have until that date to do whatever you want. It can't come any closer. It's just right there. It's conquering something by understanding it. As humans, we defeat the world by knowing how it works. As has been said many times in history, fear is a sign of ignorance. Fear, by its definition, implies a "fear of the unknown." In certainty, however, there is nothing to fear. All of the possible dangers are known. There is no denial of death in its knowledge; the world becomes no less determinate. Nothing has ability; it will only do what it will do. It has no power to change. Death will come eventually, but if that day is known, death can come no sooner. It can't be changed, but it can't change itself. It will come exactly when planned, but until then, there's nothing to hold you back.

It's said that the last phase of the grief cycle is acceptance. This cycle originated from studying terminally ill patients and how they would deal with the discovery that they were terminally ill. Acceptance is the most peaceful stage, is it not? There may be those that do not desire peace and would instead prefer to be the puppet of death's hand. At best, they refuse to accept death and are thusly defeated by it. Denial is the stage of ignorance and of bliss. It may at times be one of the happiest, but it's also the most neurotic. Those in denial may live a happy and neurotic life, but they lose to death's hand nonetheless.

From an iterated standpoint, acceptance wins out over denial. Why stand back and refuse certainty that can be obtained? The world loses to humanity every time it is more understood. If there is a release in victory, then there is certainly a release in understanding the world.

Afterthought: Is it preferred to know everything or to know nothing?

I see it differently... I feel like knowing everything in the world would be depressing, its like when you were a kid and your face lit up from figuring something new out and the feeling of excitement you got. That would never exist. There would be nothing to explore, no frontier to travel beyond. I need to explore, or else I might as well already be dead.

I want to enjoy my run while I got it, make my mark on the world, then die peacefully and have every worry float away into nothingness and have my body go back to the earth and become stardust for a new world far off into the future from which new life can spring. (don't ask me what my soul/spirit/conciousness will do... I don't know lol)

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Trevor]

Because right up until that day, I would be invincible.

Be sure not to drive fast. Being in coma sucks.

[Creepy-male]

It's easy, it will go to hell.

see you there?

[Krig the Viking]

Be sure not to drive fast. Being in comma sucks.

Is being in a comma worse than being in a coma?

[Trevor]

Who said anything about comma?

[xixi]

Having an exact deadline generally makes ppl work with greater gusto. Knowing your date of death could have a similar effect in making ppl appreciate the time they've got, and use it more wisely.

But...stress can cause heart attacks. Would knowledge of one's death date come with a closer expiry date for some ppl? And a later expiry date for others, mediated through a more active approach to diet and exercise.
Wouldn't the mental act of knowing (as differentiated from knowledge content) have an effect on the date to be known?

What would be really handy is if we had a little digital display that could tell us how our lifespan is reduced/increased by each action we take, like in the Nickelback video clip for...can't remember the name of the song ('Save me'?).

But yeah, personally I think knowing my death date would have a positive effect in encouraging me to organize my time better, and you know, Carpe Diem. Being faced with the prospect that you only have a limited amount of something (money, food, time) makes it that much more tangible.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Brilliand]

Is being in a comma worse than being in a coma?

Yes, commas are rather cramped.

[Brilliand]

If I knew everything, I could still play chess with Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. Also, it would give me an advantage in Sensing and Feeling matters that take a ridiculous amount of NT intelligence to emulate.

[Creepy-male]

I hope not. My intention is to go to heaven to be able to play with lions and tigers.

well you probably won't go there if you keep on judging where other people go instead of worrying about your own business

[Creepy-male]

Sensing and Feeling matters that take a ridiculous amount of NT intelligence to emulate.

Lol you emulate your senses and feelings... ? Something seems strange about that idea.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-male]

That's Christianity as most of us know it: minding others' business . You will rot in hell \m/.

thats not so bad if all the crazies are in heaven poking into each others business.

[Logos]

Know nothing because if you knew everything, even the day of your death, you'd probably be bored. Since being bored sucks it would be favorable to know nothing because there's a slight better chance you won't be bored.

my philosophy in a nutshell: being bored sucks. we live to not feel sucky, masochistic tendencies discounted, therefore we live, in part, to not be bored.

Bored or not, I would rather be dissatisfied in knowing everything than be content in knowing nothing, especially if my knowledge could be used to benefit those who did not know everything.

[Krig the Viking]

Bored or not, I would rather be dissatisfied in knowing everything than be content in knowing nothing, especially if my knowledge could be used to benefit those who did not know everything.

Verily.

[Creepy-male]

0:52
don't pay attention to the commentary, unless u want to, I didn't post it for the annotations (just looked on youtube for the scene and this is all I could find)

[InterPrizeWes]

By Imagining at the highest level with evolving emblems of forever twirling in the petal rose dream field You take off into luster and sparkle that eradicates resistance and Primes family Bunny for language.

[K0m0d0]

If that knowledge somehow has to include the precise details of how I meet my end, right down to the emotional state I leave with, and even that much is set in stone, then I'd definitely prefer to remain ignorant of it. Otherwise, I'd want to know at least the date. The sense of drawing closer to it each day might leave me feeling uneasy, but besides that it'd be somewhat of a relief to get an idea of how much I can do with the time I have left, and whenabouts I should put off my usual personality and start saying my goodbyes. It'd also save me the trouble of thinking too far ahead, so I can better appreciate more leisurely pursuits.

[Adam Strange]

Yes I kind of want to know when I'm going to die. You'll be able to prepare better that way and work on things that you know you'll be able to reach. Some goals obviously take more time than others, and when it comes to goal-setting the timing and duration of action is quite important. You also do things by priorities - I notice I always just assume that I would still be alive for 3-5 years more, but I'm not really certain about it. If I know when I'll die I'll surely do some specific things and trash some stuff that I have lined up for myself currently because I won't be able to see through them any way if ever I won't last that long.

You could also make a KILLING on an insurance policy. To say nothing of taking ridiculous risks, because you know you're not going to die until that certain date.

[AWellArmedCat]

You could also make a KILLING on an insurance policy. To say nothing of taking ridiculous risks, because you know you're not going to die until that certain date.

I don't think this ever would've occurred to me. Wow, that's a brilliant plan