View Poll Results: Vote for the question you're answering, the option you chose, and the quadra you're in

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Thread: Books Question

  1. #1
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Default Books Question

    So, this is, at least to my idol Harold Bloom's mind, a big issue in contemporary literary criticism, and I think it may in some way have something to do with quadra values. So, it'd be great if you could say which position(s) you agree with more, and maybe explain your thoughts if you want in a post.

    Question 1

    a. I think that a work of art is inherently a stronger or better work of art when it expresses views and moral sentiments that we know to be true. Not little stuff like the religion of the author, because that stuff doesn't matter. But things like, showing how it's good to have free speech and criticize authority, or perhaps emphasizing how focusing on money to the detriment of family, friends, and other concerns produces a worse life. Overall, authors have a responsibility to consider how their words will affect people's morality and mindset. In fact, it might be the case that all good works of art have these sorts of values (directly or indirectly) anyway.

    b. I think that a work of art is not inherently a stronger or better work of art based on the moral sentiments it espouses, or at least, this is a less important factor than the question of whether it is well-written/acted/performed/whatever and the quality of the ideas or vision or perspective or thoughts? Lots of great art actually has values that I find repugnant (for instance, The Merchant of Venice, The Heart of Darkness, the Marquis de Sade's work), but I don't deny that it is great art because I disagree with its values. I think that artists don't really have a responsibility for the social, political, and moral effects of their work. I would rather read a well-written book that espouses values/teaches lessons I fundamentally disagree with than read a book that is not as well-written, but that espouses values/teaches lessons I fundamentally agree with.


    Question 2:

    a. I don't think that we should read books for the purpose of discovering a specific ethnic, gender, or other social perspective. I think we should read whatever books are the most interesting, the best written, and have the best ideas. Sure, many of the books we read as "classics" are by Dead White Males, but maybe that's because the Dead White Males wrote a lot of the best books! Of course, I'll read a book by a woman or a minority author if it's good, but when it finally comes down to it, it's more important and beneficial to have read [Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Milton, Homer, Dante insert important DWM author here] than to make sure that you read works of every different cultural perspective.

    b. The books that are taught in schools and espoused by universities are all by Dead White Males. It's likely that they were only chosen to be read because they are by Dead White Males, and there's equally good work by women and minorities that was suppressed by culture that we should rediscover. Regardless, we need to make room for other voices and perspectives besides that of DWMs, even if that means reading a little bit less of [Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Milton, Homer, Dante, insert DWM author here].


    Question 3

    a. Literature is inherently political; we cannot divorce a book from its political stances and its political consequences. Every book chosen as "important" by a culture is chosen for a reason, usually one relating to power structures and reinforcing the power of those who are doing the choosing.

    b. Literature is inherently apolitical. The political stances and consequences of a given book are a comparatively minor concern. The books that have stood the test of time have stood the test of time because they are the best books.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  2. #2
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
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    You can only vote for one...but I have answers for all the questions.

    1 - B
    2 - A
    3 - A
    Delta
    Stan is not my real name.

  3. #3
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    question 1: a
    question 2: b
    question 3: a

    I think question 2 is sort of a toss-up. Most writers are awfully liberal (thus very minority supporting) and talk about issues that only can be written about because it's like they don't have the sort of power yet to face the world about them, that's why they're in books. You know? Whereas conservatives and authoritative people by nature, want to just control the real world instead of writing about it, because writing is something that naturally is going to try to uplift people.

    You can be a classical libertarian (Like Ayn Rand is, IMO) and still write well tho. Books that are written by genuine right-wingers are just usually mocked in schools, because the socialist authorities really don't agree with them. Yeah I'm sure some professors are homophobic and anti-women/anti-nigger, but most of them aren't, not by a long shot. Writing is just something that's innately left-wing. A person who is like, trying to run the world isn't gonna be a reader, only a shy introverted faggot who gets picked on and feels socially isolated is going to look at books. Or a good natured hippie witch who wants to make a better world for her really shy pathetic gay friends. You know? It's just the nature of the beast lol.

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    Q1: B
    Q2: A
    Q3: B

    My preference was the clearest in question 3, less so in 1 and 2.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  6. #6
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    I meant to make the poll one of those check as many as you want things. Can I still do that...?

    Interesting answers. I would vote 1. b, 2. a, 3. b. Looks like I agree with the alphas so far.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  7. #7

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    Question 1: B
    IEE

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    I answered B to all the questions, though q2 was kind of hard. I pretty much agreed with where it was going, but the way it was worded sounded too politically correct or something. I'll pick up books written by authors from different cultural, historical, or gender perspectives, just because it's goddamn interesting, like diving for pearls. Maybe you'll run into a ton of bs, but every once in a while you stumble upon something amazingly irresistably new, say a poignant W.E.B. Du Bois, a forceful Virginia Woolf, or a ridiculously trippy Haruki Murakami.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    So, this is, at least to my idol Harold Bloom's mind, a big issue in contemporary literary criticism, and I think it may in some way have something to do with quadra values. So, it'd be great if you could say which position(s) you agree with more, and maybe explain your thoughts if you want in a post.

    Question 1

    a. I think that a work of art is inherently a stronger or better work of art when it expresses views and moral sentiments that we know to be true. Not little stuff like the religion of the author, because that stuff doesn't matter. But things like, showing how it's good to have free speech and criticize authority, or perhaps emphasizing how focusing on money to the detriment of family, friends, and other concerns produces a worse life. Overall, authors have a responsibility to consider how their words will affect people's morality and mindset. In fact, it might be the case that all good works of art have these sorts of values (directly or indirectly) anyway.

    b. I think that a work of art is not inherently a stronger or better work of art based on the moral sentiments it espouses, or at least, this is a less important factor than the question of whether it is well-written/acted/performed/whatever and the quality of the ideas or vision or perspective or thoughts? Lots of great art actually has values that I find repugnant (for instance, The Merchant of Venice, The Heart of Darkness, the Marquis de Sade's work), but I don't deny that it is great art because I disagree with its values. I think that artists don't really have a responsibility for the social, political, and moral effects of their work. I would rather read a well-written book that espouses values/teaches lessons I fundamentally disagree with than read a book that is not as well-written, but that espouses values/teaches lessons I fundamentally agree with.


    Question 2:

    a. I don't think that we should read books for the purpose of discovering a specific ethnic, gender, or other social perspective. I think we should read whatever books are the most interesting, the best written, and have the best ideas. Sure, many of the books we read as "classics" are by Dead White Males, but maybe that's because the Dead White Males wrote a lot of the best books! Of course, I'll read a book by a woman or a minority author if it's good, but when it finally comes down to it, it's more important and beneficial to have read [Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Milton, Homer, Dante insert important DWM author here] than to make sure that you read works of every different cultural perspective.

    b. The books that are taught in schools and espoused by universities are all by Dead White Males. It's likely that they were only chosen to be read because they are by Dead White Males, and there's equally good work by women and minorities that was suppressed by culture that we should rediscover. Regardless, we need to make room for other voices and perspectives besides that of DWMs, even if that means reading a little bit less of [Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Milton, Homer, Dante, insert DWM author here].


    Question 3

    a. Literature is inherently political; we cannot divorce a book from its political stances and its political consequences. Every book chosen as "important" by a culture is chosen for a reason, usually one relating to power structures and reinforcing the power of those who are doing the choosing.

    b. Literature is inherently apolitical. The political stances and consequences of a given book are a comparatively minor concern. The books that have stood the test of time have stood the test of time because they are the best books.

    1b, 2b, 3a.
    2b is a matter of principle ... fortunately that phenomenon is changing now with new directions spreading in many places. Ethnic Studies, Intersex Literature, Postcolonialism, Diversity, Women's Studies and others.
    Last edited by Amber; 04-24-2015 at 11:09 PM.

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