Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Demonstrative vs Creative

  1. #1
    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    TIM
    ??
    Posts
    1,897
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Demonstrative vs Creative

    Lets flesh this out:

    Which function is "stronger"?

    define "stronger" and if so, in what ways in comparison to the other?

    what are the limits of each function in comparison to the other?

    how do they work with or against each other?
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    220
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    Lets flesh this out:

    Which function is "stronger"?

    define "stronger" and if so, in what ways in comparison to the other?

    what are the limits of each function in comparison to the other?

    how do they work with or against each other?
    how I understand it is

    Fi-creative uses Fe to create bonds. once Fi is achieved, Fe is not used as much. this is why quasi-identical relations suck, I think.

    Fe-creative maintains Fi to achieve Fe goal. Fe-user doesn't really value Fi, he just uses it as a means to achieve his Fe goal.

    *strong w/ effort = demonstrative
    *strong without effort = creative

  3. #3
    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    TIM
    ??
    Posts
    1,897
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think its the other way around, the demonstrative is unconcious. the creative is the one we conciously focus on and try to hone, so it would make sense that the effort would be there.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  4. #4
    JohnDo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    TIM
    LII-IEI
    Posts
    638
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Demonstrative is stronger, creative is valued and conscious.

    Strong means you are good at using it.
    Valued means you like to use it and you like it when others use it.
    Conscious means you decide to use it. Unconscious means you use it without thinking "I'm gonna use it now".

    They never work together, can't be on at the same time.

    Do we really need threads for topics like that?
    Just read everything on wikisocion...

  5. #5
    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    TIM
    ??
    Posts
    1,897
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    Demonstrative is stronger, creative is valued and conscious.

    Strong means you are good at using it.
    Valued means you like to use it and you like it when others use it.
    Conscious means you decide to use it. Unconscious means you use it without thinking "I'm gonna use it now".

    They never work together, can't be on at the same time.

    Do we really need threads for topics like that?
    Just read everything on wikisocion...
    not if you just regurgitate material.

    I am already aware of all this. Simply saying its stronger as in your good at using it doesnt capture certain discrepencies or nuances of the elements in these positions.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  6. #6
    Creepy-Pied Piper

    Default

    Removed at User Request

  7. #7
    EffyCold thePirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    TIM
    ??
    Posts
    1,897
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    hmm...
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  8. #8
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,107
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have thoughts I think. I'm going to post them eventually. But I've already wasted two and a half hours on socionics, which, tonight, is more intellectually stimulating than my homework, because I have an irritating delta teacher who is extremely intellectually rigorous, but in ways that I can't really use or process (and this after having a beta teacher last semester for the same class who was a god). But the homework has to get done nonetheless. Effing Boccaccio.

    So yeah. All that to say, I'm going to edit this post into a real post... when I need to stay up all night tomorrow night. Probably.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  9. #9
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The demonstrative function fully accounts for that element, while dismissing it as unimportant. I like to think of it as a support or verification for the creative function, that ensures that the creative function draws good conclusions but in the end is expressed in terms of the creative function, rather than in terms of itself.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  10. #10
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,983
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Creative is as strong as Base. Demonstrative doesn't exist.

  11. #11
    Azeroffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    California
    TIM
    ENTj 3w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,216
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think of the demonstrative as a way of supporting the creative to give more accuracy. This comes at the cost of breadth. The relationship is similar to base and ignoring except that the base aims for quantity of information and so the ignoring function is limited so that less information is filtered away from the base function.

    For example this might play out in Fe types like this. Fe-base types limit the use of Fi considerations so that Fe emotions can be expressed uninhibitedly. Fe-creative otw will limit themselves to more positive/less invasive expressions of emotion because they use Fi as a check/balance for Fe.

    In this way the demonstrative is fully accounted for as brilliand said here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    The demonstrative function fully accounts for that element, while dismissing it as unimportant. I like to think of it as a support or verification for the creative function, that ensures that the creative function draws good conclusions but in the end is expressed in terms of the creative function, rather than in terms of itself.





    Another way of putting it is that the creative is used with the demonstrative always in mind.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 03-23-2010 at 05:36 PM.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

  12. #12
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,464
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sorry to go off topic.

    The 7th function is something you do implicitly (without thinking about it) when using the 1st function, but not something you actively develop. Either way:

    A Ti-dominant uses Te to gauge the need for a particular system, as it would be a waste of time to systematize all minutiae.

    Te-dominants are known to produce long chains of cause-effect reasoning - if A, then B, which means C; but C means D, which means E, which means F...and so on. But how often are those chains of reasoning internally inconsistent and poorly correlate with existing bodies of knowledge? Almost never.

    Te-PoLRs can easily become bogged down on irrelevancies to the point being made.
    Ti-PoLRs can easily make inconsistency and correlation errors.

    You're not likely to use the 7th function in an active way, but not likely to make very many mistakes in this area either (unless you want to).


    Furthermore, whereas a Ti dominant might explicitly develop and refine a system of right and wrong, a Te dominant would just implicitly assume that something is right or wrong.

    Last edited by xerx; 03-25-2010 at 02:21 PM.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •